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Who should start against the Sens? Bonus question: How do we handle Pavelec's starts?

View Poll Results: Who should start in Ottawa?
Pavelec 30 53.57%
Montoya 20 35.71%
Dekanich 0 0%
Pasquale 6 10.71%
Undecided 0 0%
Voters: 56. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-08-2013, 11:03 AM
  #26
truck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
You keep posting this. The quality of shots against is the concern, not quantity. At least with Buff and Bogo there teams are mostly boxed outside. Now it is a parade of breakaways, point-blank opportunities, and guys crowding the net. The D core is currently an AHL-level group overall. Guys are playing in positions above their grade because two out of the top three D are injured.
The parade of breakaways and point blank opportunities really hasn't happened, at least not at the rate that some people suggest. Lots of the goals have been scored from well out. Plus most of the point blank opportunities are a result of a goalie with poor rebound control.

Yes, guys are playing above their grade, but as a whole I haven't seen a poor defensive team outside of the mess in Tampa.

I see a Jets as a team that is allowing less shots and less quality shots than a number of other teams. I also think they have had a number of unfortunate breaks that resulted in goals.

Pav isn't as bad as his current save percentage, but I really don't think he is isn't any better than an replacement level starter at this point.

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Old
02-08-2013, 12:15 PM
  #27
Stej
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We can’t give Pavs a free pass forever.

It is possible that the number of quality chances against him are not only a function of poor team defense, but also of poor positioning and awareness on his part. I’m leaning more and more towards the latter each day. For example, the Kessel shot was a beauty to be sure but Pavelec was at least a foot outside the top of his crease and should have been able to save that. To my eye, he was hedging slightly to the blocker side and wasn’t centered properly in the net. Shots from the top of the circle can be tough to save if you are hemmed back into your net, but he was way out cutting down the angle. Not a free pass from me.

His shootout stats are terrible. What does that mean? Is it in his head? Is he not intelligent enough to make good reads on where a player will go? I don’t have those answers, but it does say something about his ability to keep the puck out of the net no matter how you spin it.

His conditioning and dedication are often called into question. Any truth to those concerns? Not sure, but it gets harder and harder to ignore as his struggles continue.

He’s not particularly good at handling the puck.

So what does that leave us with? He’s reasonably athletic and makes the odd nice sprawling save. I’m not so sure that’s enough anymore.

People act like we need to fix everything else and Pavelec’s performance will follow. It's not necessarily a one-way street. Big saves and weak goals go a long way towards swinging momentum and confidence for the rest of the team and Pavs is not delivering in that department.

I’ve been a Pavelec defender until very recently. I told myself all the same things that the other Pavs supporters are saying, but it’s getting increasingly difficult to convince myself that he is the goalie of the future. I can’t help it that my automatic reaction is to cringe every time a shot heads towards the net. That doesn’t make me a hater. It’s just my reality. I wish it wasn’t and I’ll be the very first person in line hoping that I’m wrong.

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02-08-2013, 12:26 PM
  #28
SCP Guy
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I think Pav should start...by the way he looks on his interviews he has to work off his second chin

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02-08-2013, 12:32 PM
  #29
Gil Fisher
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Pavelec is our starter for the foreseeable future. Like it or not. Keep starting him until he's playing well, then start him some more.

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02-08-2013, 12:44 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCP Guy View Post
I think Pav should start...by the way he looks on his interviews he has to work off his second chin
His conditioning sucks, thats why.

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02-08-2013, 01:07 PM
  #31
scelaton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stej View Post
We canít give Pavs a free pass forever.

It is possible that the number of quality chances against him are not only a function of poor team defense, but also of poor positioning and awareness on his part. Iím leaning more and more towards the latter each day. For example, the Kessel shot was a beauty to be sure but Pavelec was at least a foot outside the top of his crease and should have been able to save that. To my eye, he was hedging slightly to the blocker side and wasnít centered properly in the net. Shots from the top of the circle can be tough to save if you are hemmed back into your net, but he was way out cutting down the angle. Not a free pass from me.

His shootout stats are terrible. What does that mean? Is it in his head? Is he not intelligent enough to make good reads on where a player will go? I donít have those answers, but it does say something about his ability to keep the puck out of the net no matter how you spin it.

His conditioning and dedication are often called into question. Any truth to those concerns? Not sure, but it gets harder and harder to ignore as his struggles continue.

Heís not particularly good at handling the puck.

So what does that leave us with? Heís reasonably athletic and makes the odd nice sprawling save. Iím not so sure thatís enough anymore.

People act like we need to fix everything else and Pavelecís performance will follow. It's not necessarily a one-way street. Big saves and weak goals go a long way towards swinging momentum and confidence for the rest of the team and Pavs is not delivering in that department.

Iíve been a Pavelec defender until very recently. I told myself all the same things that the other Pavs supporters are saying, but itís getting increasingly difficult to convince myself that he is the goalie of the future. I canít help it that my automatic reaction is to cringe every time a shot heads towards the net. That doesnít make me a hater. Itís just my reality. I wish it wasnít and Iíll be the very first person in line hoping that Iím wrong.
We come at this from different places, but our views are converging.
I have never been convinced Pavs is a good or great NHL goalie because, well, his numbers never ever justified it. The keys for a goalie, IMO, are positioning, mental and physical discipline, and consistency...not flash. If you can make one great save, on average, per game and not let in any softies, you're going to do better than your flashy, but inconsistent peers.
Now, I am going to get slammed for this, but there are things in his appearance (soft), behaviour (DUI and how he mishandled it) and performance (eg, horrific in Europe cuz it 'didn't matter') that suggest to me he lacks the intensity, discipline and consistency to be an NHL winner.
I didn't have a chance to see the game last night, so I cannot comment on it specifically, but looking at his historical performance, subjectively and objectively, there is not much to give one hope except for the occasional 'flash'.
I think we need to give Pavs the entirety of this season to prove his doubters wrong, but the numbers overall do not lie and we will never get anywhere with mediocre goaltending.
Having taken some heat for my Pavs comments in the past, I am not sure what to expect now, but I am especially interested in comments from people who have played goal at a high level, as we seem to have a lot of them on the board.

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02-08-2013, 02:10 PM
  #32
sipowicz
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Originally Posted by New Jets View Post
His conditioning sucks, thats why.
His overall health is a question mark, dark circles under his eyes all the time, double chin that men get when they enter their mid 40's...hardly the picture of health for someone in their mid 20's.

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02-08-2013, 02:41 PM
  #33
Ulf Hullberg
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Pavs played a solid game on Tuesday, and against the Leafs none of the 3 goals should be put on him.

1st Goal - Blame goes to Postma for fumbling the puck and allowing Bozak to generate speed on the breakaway - which btw, is not to the goalie's advantage. And it was a nicely placed shot by Bozak, the #1 star last night.

2nd Goal - a nice tip in, but I gotta call goaltender interference on Frattin.

3rd Goal - blame it on Poni's stupid penalty. Besides, it was Kessel's go to weapon fired thru a partial screen from the high slot.

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02-08-2013, 02:56 PM
  #34
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I voted Pasqual for fschits and giggles.

In reality: Pav's....or Montoya...i don't care.

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02-08-2013, 06:08 PM
  #35
sipowicz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulf Hullberg View Post
Pavs played a solid game on Tuesday, and against the Leafs none of the 3 goals should be put on him.

1st Goal - Blame goes to Postma for fumbling the puck and allowing Bozak to generate speed on the breakaway - which btw, is not to the goalie's advantage. And it was a nicely placed shot by Bozak, the #1 star last night.

2nd Goal - a nice tip in, but I gotta call goaltender interference on Frattin.

3rd Goal - blame it on Poni's stupid penalty. Besides, it was Kessel's go to weapon fired thru a partial screen from the high slot.
3rd goal on Ladd's poor clear, Stu not challenging, backing up and screening Pavs

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Old
02-08-2013, 07:55 PM
  #36
jimmycrackcorn
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None of the above. I suggest the "Holy Goalie" - Joe Daley. He can take a break fron his card shop...

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02-08-2013, 07:58 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
His overall health is a question mark, dark circles under his eyes all the time, double chin that men get when they enter their mid 40's...hardly the picture of health for someone in their mid 20's.
Pavs is looking more and more like you, Detective - except with more hair

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02-08-2013, 09:11 PM
  #38
Snot Rocket
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Just checked...he seems to have had that double chin thing since 2010, though going back a couple more years it kind of disappears. I am guessing this is a little more on the genetic side. I get the same thing if I put on any weight. I usually don't shave so when I do, I know I put the lbs on...speaking of which I am NOT shaving my beard off anytime soon this past year has not been kind.

I just don't see the level of fitness commitment on him physically that I see on some of the other players. I know it is not easy to do what he does, but with any sport being in the best possible shape for your sport is paramount to success.

He had a Vasovagal response episode a few years back.
He has (as mentioned) dark circles under his eyes.
He looks stressed does not look well rested which is a factor in repeating his Vasovagal response episode

He looks really tense in net, not loose at all
With that said, I found an interesting article on muscle armouring.


http://www.thegoalieguild.com/2012/0...scle-armoring/

Hope someone enjoys the read as much as I did.

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Old
02-08-2013, 10:11 PM
  #39
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Good goalies find ways to make saves, and win games... period

pavelec at times last year, was able to steal some games for us completely on his own.. however he could never do it consistently.. but with the chances he was facing it was forgiveable

he has NOT done that once for us this year. the games we've won we have outplayed the other teams, or won low-shot games

we often get scored on early, we have trouble holding leads. it certainly doesnt all fall on pavelec, some of the hate is a little much. but overall its hard to argue in my eyes that he just simply hasnt been good enough... yet

it IS still early, but in a half season, not really either.. if we cant figure our **** out soon and string together some wins we will fall out of the race rather quickly

too early to discuss but just an extra opinion. if pavs continues to be average or below, and inconsistent. we will have no choice but to look at different goaltending options in the offseason i think. long way to go tho

hoping he can turn it around. kid has skill. just needs to show it more often

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02-08-2013, 10:18 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
The goal-tending is going to continue to appear overly shaky until they are able to shore up the D; a correlation that some of you are missing, apparently.
Do we have to hold them to 0 shots on goal! The D held them to 18 shots last night 19 against Florida not bad IMO.

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02-08-2013, 10:27 PM
  #41
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Montoya. For all our struggles against Ottawa I feel it's time to give Montoya a proper look against a team we're battling for a playoff spot againts (all due respect to Islanders). I also would play Pavelec against Philly even with a Montoya win.

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02-08-2013, 11:41 PM
  #42
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Pavs has the flu so it's Montoya, according to the Sun. Probably no backup since air travel is disrupted out east.

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02-09-2013, 12:36 AM
  #43
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Imagine if Montoya gets injured and Hainsey has to strap on the pads and still saves all but 1 goal all while scoring 6.

Legendary night of hockey.

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02-09-2013, 08:41 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Lynk View Post
Imagine if Montoya gets injured and Hainsey has to strap on the pads and still saves all but 1 goal all while scoring 6.

Legendary night of hockey.
Ron did make a nice save last game.

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