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Cole's Plus/Minus: Pens vs. Caps - Oates is hilarious

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Old
02-08-2013, 12:09 PM
  #201
Pancakes
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I love Despres and Bort but people need to cool off with the idea that having them makes Martin or Orpik expendable. Despres and Bortuzzo are getting sheltered minutes. It remains to be seen how they will respond if they start having to log heavy minutes against the other team's top players.

I love the kids and I think they have a bright future but I don't think they are ready yet to be thrust into super prominent roles. Give them another year or two.

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02-08-2013, 12:26 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
No one is going to open up the store, sure. BUT, he's back on the progression that people envisioned for him after his rookie year. He's only 26, still has untapped offensive upside, has first round pedigree, is on a reasonable contract, and has shown that he can more than handle top four minutes on a playoff caliber team.

There are a couple of top playoff teams in the west that would see him legitimately as a 4/5 at worst on their defense. Guys like that have value. Not top winger value. But, if you're STL-- and you're seeing Cole getting exposed and Redden returning to his true form and you've got Chris Stewart playing on a third line, would you be interested in TK (to fill that role) and Niskanen (maybe with a 2nd in this deep draft to sweeten the deal), especially as you'd probably be looking to move Stewart in the summer with more important RFA's to sign?
All the more reason to keep him, unless you're floored by an offer.

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02-08-2013, 12:30 PM
  #203
SherogoesHAM
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Martin looked so much better than Letang on that PP. tape to tape quick passes.

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02-08-2013, 12:32 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by SherogoesHAM View Post
Martin looked so much better than Letang on that PP. tape to tape quick passes.
I do agree though with whoever said that Martin would be exposed in the long term or in a playoff series. The trouble with him on the powerplay is he's not a threat to shoot. If a smart pk or coach realizes that, you get people overplaying on Malkin and Sid.

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02-08-2013, 12:43 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
You lost me with the first polysyllabic word.
I-will-try-hard-more-next-time haha

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02-08-2013, 12:47 PM
  #206
Le Magnifique 66
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Originally Posted by SherogoesHAM View Post
Martin looked so much better than Letang on that PP. tape to tape quick passes.
Maybe Martin's problem was Michalek

Anyways i'm really happy he turned his game around, this is what we payed and expected from him since day 1

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02-08-2013, 01:48 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
I-will-try-hard-more-next-time haha
Thank you.

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02-08-2013, 02:07 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Le Magnifique 66 View Post
Maybe Martin's problem was Michalek

Anyways i'm really happy he turned his game around, this is what we payed and expected from him since day 1
IMO he is still not a 5 million dollar defenceman, I would of liked him a lot more around 3.75

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02-08-2013, 02:12 PM
  #209
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I'm glad people are noticing the difference Martin made on the PP. Letang has been shoddy all year at that position. Hes too spazzy with his playmaking. He wants to use his legs all the time, yet for a PP QB thats not always the best decision. They needed to remove Letang from the equation and limit some of the pressure on Malkin (the other turnover prone guy). Both were achieved nicely with Martin in play.

I think the Pens PP last night was nearly perfect, one improvement would be to clean up their zone entry. Once in, their zone alignment was outstanding. They could throw a few wrinkles in to mix it up, but that unit will be top 5 easily.

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02-08-2013, 02:13 PM
  #210
Le Magnifique 66
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Originally Posted by YinzerpenguiN View Post
IMO he is still not a 5 million dollar defenceman, I would of liked him a lot more around 3.75
For sure but he averaged about 30pts per year in Jersey. UFA signing you're always going to pay a little more. And that summer the cap just kept going higher teams had more space

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02-08-2013, 02:18 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Changing subjects: Who gets benched when Niskanen is healthy? Not Bortuzzo, not with what he and Engo as a pair are showing. Despres? Very well may be, but you'll pay for a move like that in April.
No one... you trade him for a winger. At this point I don't want to see Despres or Bortuzzo leave the lineup again unless it's for injury reasons. They have what it takes right now to be good NHL defenders with a lot of good upside. Let them develop and cash in on our revival of Niskanen, who we basically got for free.

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02-08-2013, 02:22 PM
  #212
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Looking at how Michalek played now... makes me think that Bort/Engo were definitely better options. Michalek is a very good all-around Mark Eaton type player, but he did not have a fit on this team. It wasn't the style he played and wasn't a good pairing with Martin.

That's going to go down as a way better move than a lot of people give Shero credit for. It was the right team move.

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02-08-2013, 02:24 PM
  #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SherogoesHAM View Post
Martin looked so much better than Letang on that PP. tape to tape quick passes.
I actually think Despres would be better because he has no problem throwing it to the net. Martin made it work, but he wasn't going to shoot. He was passing all day long.

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02-08-2013, 02:24 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by NastyNick View Post
I'm glad people are noticing the difference Martin made on the PP. Letang has been shoddy all year at that position. Hes too spazzy with his playmaking. He wants to use his legs all the time, yet for a PP QB thats not always the best decision. They needed to remove Letang from the equation and limit some of the pressure on Malkin (the other turnover prone guy). Both were achieved nicely with Martin in play.

I think the Pens PP last night was nearly perfect, one improvement would be to clean up their zone entry. Once in, their zone alignment was outstanding. They could throw a few wrinkles in to mix it up, but that unit will be top 5 easily.
With the proviso that last night's damage was done against a **** Caps PK.

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02-08-2013, 02:33 PM
  #215
regard
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Oates played Neuvirth 5 straight games at one point like two weeks ago making it seem like he was the #1. Then played Holtby vs us and left him in to get rocked.

Then plays Neuvirth and yanks him in a game that was still competitive.

I dont get it.

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02-08-2013, 02:52 PM
  #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pancakes View Post
I love Despres and Bort but people need to cool off with the idea that having them makes Martin or Orpik expendable. Despres and Bortuzzo are getting sheltered minutes. It remains to be seen how they will respond if they start having to log heavy minutes against the other team's top players.

I love the kids and I think they have a bright future but I don't think they are ready yet to be thrust into super prominent roles. Give them another year or two.

I say in the same sense people need on open up to the idea that we will need to push at least one of these guys into top playing minutes by next year. The cap is going down and since we have so much defence we need to move some.

Having these two does make Martin or Orpik expendable and that is the beauty of drafting defencemen. Prospects are worth nothing but these old fellas should be able to help us out with a better player.

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02-08-2013, 03:10 PM
  #217
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
I actually think Despres would be better because he has no problem throwing it to the net. Martin made it work, but he wasn't going to shoot. He was passing all day long.
He very well may be, but we're not going to get a chance to find out methinks.

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02-08-2013, 03:21 PM
  #218
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Has there been any update on Letang?

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02-08-2013, 03:30 PM
  #219
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
I actually think Despres would be better because he has no problem throwing it to the net. Martin made it work, but he wasn't going to shoot. He was passing all day long.
Despres is such an amazing passer. I can't wait to see how he works with this team in a year or two. I love him. He's my favorite player on the team named Simon.

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02-08-2013, 04:15 PM
  #220
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We are tied for second in goals scored right now league wide, I really don't see a need to trade away solid defensive players for a winger. I get that Crosby *should* have better wingers to play with than Kunitz and Dupuis but having Nisky and depth on the defensive end is a better option come playoff time IMO. We are clicking and scoring plenty of goals right now, I wouldn't be upset if we waited and made decisions on personnel until after we see how this team plays in the playoffs. If we get embarrassed again then obviously its time for some changes, but right now I am happy with the roster as is.

As much as everyone likes to ***** about Boychuck I think he has looked the most comfortable playing alongside Malkin and Neal. I don't think he is a long term solution, but the chances have been there since he was claimed and sooner or later they will start converting.

We need the best defense possible on the ice come playoff time, and I don't think trading an asset for a winger is a smart solution at this point in time. Obviously if RS can turn on god mode again and get a similar Neal for gogo deal, then yes, do it, but if nothing of that nature is on the table keep the roster the way it is.
This kind of thinking (with regards to not needing to add a scoring winger) is the very thing I fear most as a result of the Pens scoring quite a few goals during this 5-game winning streak.

I hope management has a broader view of the issue than just checking the column on the stat page labeled "goals for" when determining what areas of this club still need upgrades.

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02-08-2013, 04:35 PM
  #221
BmxHockey
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Uh...?

This is peoples problem. They quickly throw players under the bus without actually watching the game. Boychuk has been everything we've hoped for. He isn't on the scoresheet, but unlike Tangradi, he is opening space, creating scoring chances and playing good defensively.

Anyone throwing Boychuk under the bus are probably the same people that threw Neal under the bus when he wasn't converting on his chances after the acquisition.

It's a reoccurring problem with a lot of new Pens fans. We have 20 goal scoring wingers, they may not be elite, but they produce....but oh.my.god. we need more. Seriously, get it out of your heads. This is the salary cap era and we have a large amount of elite players. No, wait, we have the best 2 players in the world and you want to get another top player for ****? GTFO.

The fact is this team is fine, short term and long term. It's funny seeing some of the flip-floppers on this board though.
Who are you talking to? No one is running Boychuk under the bus? Boychuk is a professional who like anyone hired to play needs to execute on all parts of the ice which includes burying gift wrapped chances. It's simple business.

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02-08-2013, 05:07 PM
  #222
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I do agree though with whoever said that Martin would be exposed in the long term or in a playoff series. The trouble with him on the powerplay is he's not a threat to shoot. If a smart pk or coach realizes that, you get people overplaying on Malkin and Sid.
Neither has Letang been... unless you are counting him CONSTANTLY shooting into a guys shin pads 2 feet away from him.


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02-08-2013, 05:15 PM
  #223
NeedleInTheHay
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Originally Posted by YinzerpenguiN View Post
IMO he is still not a 5 million dollar defenceman, I would of liked him a lot more around 3.75
The Isles offered 5.5 million per year, do you really think he would turn down 1.75 million dollars per season to play for the Pens instead?

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02-08-2013, 05:56 PM
  #224
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The Isles offered 5.5 million per year, do you really think he would turn down 1.75 million dollars per season to play for the Pens instead?
Are we supposed to be guided by what the Islanders do? They traded for a guy who would rather stay in Russia than play for them, for heavens sake.

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02-08-2013, 07:31 PM
  #225
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Martin had lots of offers and his agent said almost all of them were 5 million/per or more so that was the market. You don't get bargain's in UFA unless a guy is a reclamation project and Martin certainly wasn't one of those.

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