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[FLA/LA] Keaton Ellerby to LA for a 5th round pick

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Old
02-08-2013, 02:38 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
Yeah but there's a difference between saying he's not all that great, and he's horrible and should be our 8th d-man, like some Panthers fans will tell you. I'll never understand how he gets so badly crucified sometimes. People make a mountain out of a molehill with every play he makes.

I disagree that he had a bad game in Winnipeg. I know you will counter with well why was he scratched. But he didn't do anything wrong on the 1st goal. He tried to deflect a shot away from his goalie, like d-men do many times a game. Some take weird bounces and go in. It happens. What else did he do that was so bad in that game? Maybe Dineen was just rotating d-men like he has done regularly over the past couple seasons because we always had a lot of d-men?
He was 8th on the depth chart at this point. That's not hating, just fact. I think he's better than some of the guys ahead of him (like Jovo, for example), but some of it is a #'s game. I've said that, too. Said it on the Kings board.

I think Ellerby is certainly an NHL d-man. There are many guys in the league who get regular playing time who are worse than he is.

As for the Winnipeg game, I'll give Dineen the benefit of the doubt on that one. None of us can see everything that happens on TV. The coaches see the whole ice and Ellerby got less than 12 minutes in that game.

Ellerby had a chance to at least prove to the coaching staff, etc. that he was better than Strachan and he didn't. If he would've outplayed Strachan (who's a bottom-pairing guy, himself), Ellerby would still be here right now.

Ellerby is currently a bottom-pairing d-man, and getting a 5th round pick for a bottom-pairing d-man you have no room for is not a bad thing. If anything, the majority of the fanbase is being too critical of the trade today. Ellerby wasn't really hated this year. Most people supported what he was doing. I don't think there's some sort of bias against him.

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02-08-2013, 02:38 PM
  #102
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Oh another crappy player traded for a 5th! Let's talk about how it's a steal when in reality it's just the market price!!!!!

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02-08-2013, 02:44 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Erick View Post
He was 8th on the depth chart at this point. That's not hating, just fact. I think he's better than some of the guys ahead of him (like Jovo, for example), but some of it is a #'s game. I've said that, too. Said it on the Kings board.

I think Ellerby is certainly an NHL d-man. There are many guys in the league who get regular playing time who are worse than he is.

As for the Winnipeg game, I'll give Dineen the benefit of the doubt on that one. None of us can see everything that happens on TV. The coaches see the whole ice and Ellerby got less than 12 minutes in that game.

Ellerby had a chance to at least prove to the coaching staff, etc. that he was better than Strachan and he didn't. If he would've outplayed Strachan (who's a bottom-pairing guy, himself), Ellerby would still be here right now.

Ellerby is currently a bottom-pairing d-man and getting a 5th round pick for a bottom-pairing d-man you have no room for is not a bad thing. If anything, the majority of the fanbase is being too critical of the trade today. Ellerby wasn't really hated this year. Most people supported what he was doing. I don't think there's some sort of bias against him.
Oh, there is a bias against him on our board. Maybe not from the majority, but there is an unreasonable bias present. He has converted some people with his solid play, though.

Maybe he was 8th on the depth chart due to salary/contracts, but what I said was some people say he SHOULD be 8th on our depth chart.

I'm not critical of Tallon, he obviously got the most he could. I'm not gonna lie and say I wasn't hoping for more though. But I'll live.

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02-08-2013, 02:47 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Erick View Post
This.
wrong

we got screwed in the loktionov deal
florida got screwed in the ellerby deal

both players have played at least one game in the NHL

which is a feat not many 5th rounders can claim

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02-08-2013, 02:50 PM
  #105
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after giving up andrei cheap, they get ellerby cheap.

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02-08-2013, 02:51 PM
  #106
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I have a hard time believing Ellerby will be worse than Muzzin, so this is a good trade for the Kings.

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02-08-2013, 02:55 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
Oh, there is a bias against him on our board. Maybe not from the majority, but there is an unreasonable bias present. He has converted some people with his solid play, though.

Maybe he was 8th on the depth chart due to salary/contracts, but what I said was some people say he SHOULD be 8th on our depth chart.

I'm not critical of Tallon, he obviously got the most he could. I'm not gonna lie and say I wasn't hoping for more though. But I'll live.
I think that if you go on the Panthers board, the majority of posters would probably say he's outplayed Jovo, Kuba, and Weaver this year for the most part.

The whole 8th on the depth chart thing has to do with the #'s and the majority seem to understand that.

If certain people did not like him in the past, there was probably some reason for that.

Dating back to when he started actually getting playing time...
'10-11: The team was terrible and he was one of the worst. The -15 he had that year was a good summary for some of his attrocious turnovers and penalties.
'11-12: He was battling with Gudbranson for a spot on the team and you could make a case he outplayed Gudbranson for a good part of the season. That's not really a testament, however, to him playing well, but rather the fact that Gudbranson looked really raw especially early on.
'12-13: It's worth noting that he still has 0 points this year. With that said, it's probably the best he's played in his time here. More noticeable. Had some nice hits and also defended a couple of teammates, which was nice.

All in all, his career has been extremely underwhelming, 10th pick overall or not. His #'s tell the story. You can say #'s aren't everything and I'd agree, but they're also certainly worth paying attention to. The #'s are also certainly the reason why we got what we got. If he would've played better, we would've gotten better value in return. I'm not sure why anyone is disappointed, really.

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02-08-2013, 02:55 PM
  #108
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I always wondered exactly was type of defenseman Ellerby is. Panthers fans even seem to disagree on the subject and they've watched him the most so I still really don't know. Looking at the numbers he really isn't an offensive one/puck-mover to me but I could be wrong. I haven't watched him much.

He's a big defenseman and he's only 24 still. Good skater especially at that size and will occasionally use his size to hit pretty hard but doesn't use his size nearly enough. No offensive game but if he's supposed to be a defensive defenseman that shouldn't matter. However, I do think he's a bust for the most part. Never will be worth going tenth overall or even close to it. Maybe a change of scenery will do him well and like I said, only 24 and defensemen take the longest to develop. Maybe if he gets the opportunity in a new place he'll do better, but he won't ever live up to that draft position, I'm confident of that.

Really though, a fifth is about right for him at this point. He was usually a healthy scratch when the Panthers were healthy anyway. I think he has the potential to be a solid bottom-pairing guy AT MOST but nothing more. Florida must have just seen it was time to let go of him and give up. It's not like they didn't invest in him afterall.

It's a cheap price for the Kings to pay and they're hurting on defense. You never know, he might be able to play better but like I said, his potential is likely bottom-pairing at most. If the Kings even get that out of him I think it'll be worth it for them. Panthers got something for a guy who they didn't really need anymore. Good trade for both teams and a low risk, moderate reward for the Kings IMO.

By the way, has Strachan really played that well this season? Always thought of him as a career AHL'er but he made the roster and hasn't been sent down yet so he has to be doing something right.

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02-08-2013, 02:58 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by KingPuckChoo View Post
wrong

we got screwed in the loktionov deal
florida got screwed in the ellerby deal

both players have played at least one game in the NHL

which is a feat not many 5th rounders can claim
That's great.
Enforcers who only fight have played at least one game in the NHL, too. Are they worth more than a 5th round pick (or, in their case, a 7th round pick ) because they've "played at least one game in the NHL?"

AHL journeymen...a lot of them have played at least one game in the NHL. I guess they're all worth a 4th round pick minimum, too.

Ellerby has played 125 games in the NHL..............and the #'s prove that he's been nothing more than mediocre. 5th round pick is basically what he's worth at this point in his career.

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02-08-2013, 03:02 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Rivet52 View Post
I always wondered exactly was type of defenseman Ellerby is. Panthers fans even seem to disagree on the subject and they've watched him the most so I still really don't know. Looking at the numbers he really isn't an offensive one/puck-mover to me but I could be wrong. I haven't watched him much.

He's a big defenseman and he's only 24 still. Good skater especially at that size and will occasionally use his size to hit pretty hard but doesn't use his size nearly enough. No offensive game but if he's supposed to be a defensive defenseman that shouldn't matter. However, I do think he's a bust for the most part. Never will be worth going tenth overall or even close to it. Maybe a change of scenery will do him well and like I said, only 24 and defensemen take the longest to develop. Maybe if he gets the opportunity in a new place he'll do better, but he won't ever live up to that draft position, I'm confident of that.

Really though, a fifth is about right for him at this point. He was usually a healthy scratch when the Panthers were healthy anyway. I think he has the potential to be a solid bottom-pairing guy AT MOST but nothing more. Florida must have just seen it was time to let go of him and give up. It's not like they didn't invest in him afterall.

It's a cheap price for the Kings to pay and they're hurting on defense. You never know, he might be able to play better but like I said, his potential is likely bottom-pairing at most. If the Kings even get that out of him I think it'll be worth it for them. Panthers got something for a guy who they didn't really need anymore. Good trade for both teams and a low risk, moderate reward for the Kings IMO.

By the way, has Strachan really played that well this season? Always thought of him as a career AHL'er but he made the roster and hasn't been sent down yet so he has to be doing something right.
Ellerby is a PMD if you ask me. When he's out there on the ice, you don't think: "sweet, we're going to shut the other line out this shift." You do notice that he can really skate and his first pass out of the zone is pretty good at times.

As for Strachan, he's played pretty well ever since he got here. He's pretty steady and is surprisingly pretty skilled, himself. He's also a good skater and his shot is way better than Ellerby's. If anything, Strachan should probably be getting some more playing time on the PP to see what he can do. I think we're 4-0-1 with Strachan in the lineup this year. 0-5 without him.


Last edited by Erick*: 02-08-2013 at 03:09 PM.
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02-08-2013, 03:04 PM
  #111
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Um, what?!!?? He was/is never suppose to be a puck-moving d-man, EVER. Always was billed as a defensive d-man who could skate and shutdown opposing top 6 forwards and what FL was grooming him to be. Puck moving d-man suggests he had offensive potential and he never had that. I dont know where you ever got the idea that he was a puck moving d-man?
Florida cats fan here, Ellerby is a puck moving dman, just not a really good one, but he can move the puck out. He has shown some flashes of puck moving ability in the past with us, not many. He has great size, heart and great wheels. The thing he ultimately lacks is true hockey I.Q., he needs to grow his confidence as well because he has no poise with the puck. He will make blunders here and there, but he is a very good serviceable dman. I think LA got a very good dman for a hell of a bargain.

Florida was slightly ripped off on this one, some cat fans are in a bit of denial which if fine. I thought his value was close to a 3rd at least. It sucks because kuba has been pretty crappy (especially the amount we payed for him) and I would rather have ellerby, but with robak, petrovic and strachan (who has been awesome) ellerby has no true future with the cats. I will give the kuba contract a second look when he starts to play more games, with the lockout every player looked not entirely in game shape/game ready mentality.


I also think that tallon wanted a pick coming back for ellerby just because he is a draft GM (albiet a 5th round pick..) . Getting lok would've been nice, but I feel that Tallon does not want to clog up with extra forwards ( except for kovalev who hasn't been great). We have upshall, bergs in the shadows waiting and next year the possibility of adding howden (dont think he will be ready), bjugstad and any other possible FA signings.

I wish Ellerby luck. He has shown commitment and heart to the team. Maybe seeing Doughty play will give him the boost he needs.

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02-08-2013, 03:04 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by KingPuckChoo View Post
wrong

we got screwed in the loktionov deal
florida got screwed in the ellerby deal

both players have played at least one game in the NHL

which is a feat not many 5th rounders can claim
but you also have to see it from Florida's view. Ellerby was playing #6/#7 minutes and with Gudbranson coming in, Ellerby was pretty much going to warm up the bench for the near future with the Panthers.

He had very little value. This is not downplaying his actual playing ability, he just wasn't going to do anything for the Panthers.

A 5th seems like a reasonable price.

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Old
02-08-2013, 03:04 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Bure1096 View Post
For all those saying "Florida got robbed" or "This could be another Grabner situation" this kid could barely crack the top 6 during his tenure here... He was only used in case of injuries or scratches.

Some Panther fans will say he didn't get enough playing time to actually show what he could do... I will say that after meeting him last year and watching his play, he needed a change of scenery. The only solid thing I can say about his game is his skating which he was highly touted for when being drafted. Other than that he gets beat one on one a lot, weak along the boards and has NO offensive game. If Jovo can make the top 6 and this kid can't... then I do not have a problem with getting a 5th for him. He had no place with the Panthers and would not have with the D men we have coming up.

I wish him luck and maybe he can put it together over in LA, but I expect to see him on waivers or let go as a FA this summer. Def a bust in my book.
Can he block shots with his face? If so, then im okay with the trade

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02-08-2013, 03:06 PM
  #114
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So basically after a few days from LA's POV it's Loktionov for Ellerby. Nice job Dean.

Ellerby may at least be an adequate replacement for Greene who is likely out for the season. Still looking to fill the void left by Mitchell though.

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02-08-2013, 03:15 PM
  #115
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Hickey isn't a bust yet, he may have a bright future on LI.
Yeah, Hickey isn't a bust. He just couldn't break through on the Kings with Doughty, Voynov, and Martinez in the big club's lineup as puck moving defensemen.

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02-08-2013, 03:44 PM
  #116
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I really think Dale Tallon likes to choose his own players, especially in the draft. I think it would of taken too long to work our a deal for a guy already in the AHL. We had 8 D, something had to give soon.

Dales late round picks are noticeable since his first draft (2010) as a Panther:

2010
5th round pick was Zach Hyman, not much there yet, but a 4th that seems good was Sam Brittain, goalie at the University of Denver. He has good numbers.

2011
Our 5th was Yaroslav Kosov, who played for the Russia World Jr's this year. The games I saw he looked real good. He sarted playing in the KHL as a 18 yr old last season, and put up a few points.

2012
Didn't have a 5th rounder, but our 6th was Francis Beauvillier, who plays in the QMJHL. He was one of the last cuts for Team Canada's World Jr team this year and has 53 points in 51 games this year.


Tallon drafts like someone this organization has never seen. I am comfortable with getting a 5th in this trade.

In Tallon I trust..

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02-08-2013, 04:01 PM
  #117
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Interesting. They lost Hickey on waivers who was the #4 pick in the '07 draft then acquire the player who was drafted 10th in that draft.
But with Doughty, Voynov, Martinez and Muzzin, we already have 4 of that type of defenseman (PMD). With Scuderi and Drewiske, we already have 2 long-reach defensemen. We don't have any big, punishing defensemen with Greene and Mitchell out, so Hickey really doesn't help us. Hopefully, Ellerby gives us on punishing defenseman.

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02-08-2013, 04:14 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Erick View Post
That's great.
Enforcers who only fight have played at least one game in the NHL, too. Are they worth more than a 5th round pick (or, in their case, a 7th round pick ) because they've "played at least one game in the NHL?"
Ask George Parros, George Laraque and Kevin Westgarth to name a few...

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02-08-2013, 04:25 PM
  #119
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What happened to LA having the deepest D core in the league?

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02-08-2013, 04:33 PM
  #120
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What happened to LA having the deepest D core in the league?
I think that was if you look at it from 1-6 on the roster. Taking out two of the top five dmen on any NHL roster is going to severely deplete any team of its depth.

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02-08-2013, 04:36 PM
  #121
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What happened to LA having the deepest D core in the league?
Mitchell and Greene aren't guys you just replace that easily.

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02-08-2013, 04:46 PM
  #122
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Wow.

I thought DL didnt get enough back for Loktionov. But this makes it up for it.

5th round picks... easy come, easy go
Actually it's 1st round picks...easy come (Ellerby), easy go (Hickey)

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02-08-2013, 04:50 PM
  #123
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I'm surprised they didn't just trade lok to the Panthers for Ellerby. That would make much more sense then the 5th rounders they both got. Unless the Panthers preferred the pick which also wouldn't make sense. With Weiss rumoured to be on the market it would make sense.

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02-08-2013, 04:58 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Erick View Post
That's great.
Enforcers who only fight have played at least one game in the NHL, too. Are they worth more than a 5th round pick (or, in their case, a 7th round pick ) because they've "played at least one game in the NHL?"

AHL journeymen...a lot of them have played at least one game in the NHL. I guess they're all worth a 4th round pick minimum, too.

Ellerby has played 125 games in the NHL..............and the #'s prove that he's been nothing more than mediocre. 5th round pick is basically what he's worth at this point in his career.
i guess you didnt understand what i said...

im saying that usually 5th rounders end up being so terrible that they cant even dare thinking about the nhl

Ellerby and Loktionov were decent enough to at least make it

maybe your overvaluing a 5th?

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02-08-2013, 05:05 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by KingPuckChoo View Post
i guess you didnt understand what i said...

im saying that usually 5th rounders end up being so terrible that they cant even dare thinking about the nhl

Ellerby and Loktionov were decent enough to at least make it

maybe your overvaluing a 5th?
I don't think you understand what "market value" means. If two similar players are traded for the same value, that would indicate that that's the market value for those players.

It really doesn't matter if you think those two players are worth more. It's a trend that shows what their actual value is.

I'm not overvaluing the 5th at all. It's likely it won't see an NHL game. It's also likely that Keaton Ellerby wasn't going to see many NHL games with the Florida Panthers this year, as well.

This trade is the definition of a minor trade. If you feel like this is a great trade for the Kings, cite a recent example of a player like Ellerby being traded for more and you'll probably see that that's a rather difficult thing to do.

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