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The Winger Acquisition Thread | Part III: In Search of Wingers with Reverent Hands

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02-08-2013, 03:08 PM
  #126
Slabber Chops
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Question. Do they switch Kunitz and Boychuk for a few games? (I can think of one or two issues with that, however).. throwing a question out there.

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02-08-2013, 03:09 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Slabber Chops View Post
Question. Do they switch Kunitz and Boychuk for a few games? (I can think of one or two issues with that, however).. throwing a question out there.
Answer: No

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02-08-2013, 03:11 PM
  #128
Le Magnifique 66
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How anyone could be satisfied with the gaping hole on Malkin's line is beyond me. Why would you not want to improve the team when we have more than enough cap space?

If we play a defensive powerhouse in the playoffs, are you comfortable relying on Dupuis, Kunitz and whatever idiot is playing with Geno and Neal?
No one is saying not to improve the team, no one. It doesn't have to be done today this trade that's all we're saying. There is still time to get something done, the same way he got Kunitz, Hossa and Neal he will get something done for another winger, no need to panic

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It sounds like a good plan if you are trying to tank next season for a top 5 pick. I am not sure if you are serious

I've seen enough of Tangradi and Jeffrey. Tangradi is horrible. Seriously, how much longer does he need to show he's awful?
So replacing players like Kennedy and Adams with Tangradi and Jeffrey is going to make us a bottom 5 team? I've heard it all today, glad it's Friday!

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02-08-2013, 03:13 PM
  #129
Le Magnifique 66
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Originally Posted by Slabber Chops View Post
Question. Do they switch Kunitz and Boychuk for a few games? (I can think of one or two issues with that, however).. throwing a question out there.
No Kunitz has finally started to play well no need to switch anything right now. Shero will make a move eventually and find someone for Geno's line

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02-08-2013, 03:15 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Slabber Chops View Post
Question. Do they switch Kunitz and Boychuk for a few games? (I can think of one or two issues with that, however).. throwing a question out there.
that just creates the same problem on the 1st line that's currently on the 2nd line, imo. I'd be interested in trying a Kunitz - Crosby - Boychuk line, but it still leaves the same issue on the Malkin line.

I do think the fact that the team is playing well and is 8-3 gives them time to find out exactly what they have and be patient finding the right move, but if the players on the roster don't magically turn into the solution, then a move or two have to be made if they are going to win the cup.

I look at the teams which have won recently, 3 scoring lines deep. I know the Pens don't *need* that because they have "the two best players in the world" - but they are 3 scoring PLAYERS deep, not 3 scoring lines. It's just about depth and balance, the Pens need to get better in both areas.

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02-08-2013, 03:15 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Le Magnifique 66 View Post
No one is saying not to improve the team, no one. It doesn't have to be done today this trade that's all we're saying. There is still time to get something done, the same way he got Kunitz, Hossa and Neal he will get something done for another winger, no need to panic



So replacing players like Kennedy and Adams with Tangradi and Jeffrey is going to make us a bottom 5 team? I've heard it all today, glad it's Friday!
Who said L2 LW needs to be properly filled today. From what I can tell, those who argue that there are issues to resolve on L1 RW and L2 LW say that prospects are expendable and that the Pens should address these two issues between now and the deadline based on when appropriate deals present themselves. Now, we can debate what is and what is not appropriate but not the need.

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02-08-2013, 03:35 PM
  #132
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Not sure why people are losing their minds about the second line. They produce chances just about every shift, but they all seem a little snakebitten (at even strength). Everyone seems ready to blame the third guy but as has been said, Geno and Neal have been underproducing at even strength.

For once can we just wait and let them work through it?

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02-08-2013, 03:38 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Le Magnifique 66 View Post
So replacing players like Kennedy and Adams with Tangradi and Jeffrey is going to make us a bottom 5 team? I've heard it all today, glad it's Friday!
Kennedy at 2mil can go. I would much rather pay ET/Jeffrey 1mil to fill the third line roll. You want a top line winger with Malkin/Crosby you gotta cut payroll somewhere.

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02-08-2013, 03:41 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Kovifan27 View Post
Kennedy at 2mil can go. I would much rather pay ET/Jeffrey 1mil to fill the third line roll. You want a top line winger with Malkin/Crosby you gotta cut payroll somewhere.
I wonder how much longer ET/Jeffrey will be willing to re-sign here. I know ET is still under control, but I think they'd want to get a better chance somewhere else.

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02-08-2013, 04:52 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by 66-29-33 View Post
Trade for Perry, sign him for 8 years, win-win.
And pay him in the 7.5 range and kill all cap flexibility. You can say, "well, let go of Martin and Kennedy." Fine. What happens when we need to re-sign other guys on the blueline?

I'll keep stressing, this team does not need Perry. IMO, he'd be like lighting a match with a flame thrower. We'd be better off signing 2 guys who can score in the 25 goal range than 1 guy who may score 50.

We boast 2 guys who can score 50 a piece, and 1 guy who can score 40, and maybe even 50. Trying to sign another 50 goal scorer is not necessary, and as much as I love Parise, and he's probably my favorite player in the league, I even thought signing him would be overkill to a problem that's not as huge as some would like to believe.

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02-08-2013, 05:01 PM
  #136
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I'll also add...Iginla may be worth while addition for two reasons.

1. He's a free agent after this season, so hopefully we could get his cap hit down. Still not completely sold that at his age he'd want to take a deal like that as he still has some good hockey to play. I'm also not 100% sold that he wants to leave Calgary

2. I think his leadership off the ice, and his influence in the room would be infinitely bigger than anything Perry could bring in that regard, and I also think Iginla could match Perry stat for stat over the course of a season here for less money.


I still wouldn't give up a king's ransom for Iginla. I just don't think we have to do that at this point. If Iginla is on the move, I'll be real interested to hear what kind of packages are being offered up, as I'm sure a young-ish team will be willing to part with a ton to get him, and pay him anything he wants.

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02-08-2013, 05:22 PM
  #137
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We boast 2 guys who can score 50 a piece, and 1 guy who can score 40, and maybe even 50. Trying to sign another 50 goal scorer is not necessary, and as much as I love Parise, and he's probably my favorite player in the league, I even thought signing him would be overkill to a problem that's not as huge as some would like to believe.
Parise seemed an enticing idea as long as the cap was at 70.2m. It would have been overkill, but damn fun overkill to watch. Happy that passed us by now though.

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02-08-2013, 05:30 PM
  #138
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I hope and think the most likely scenario is shero gets a rent a type winger like ryder for a 2nd or 3rd rd pick. We get our winger and dont have to give up any top prosp. Theirs plenty of wingers in free agency we can go after this summer.

I see some people talking about a replacement for dupuis on top line not sure what your watching the guys a good hockey player scored 25 goals last year without sid great pk and def guy good locker room guy might be the best deal in hockey considering how little he makes. I hope we sign this guy to an extension sometime during the season.


And for the people saying how we should trade our def prospect to get wingers now. Take a look at our defense right now most of them our free agents within 2 years. Sid and Geno need defenseman to play with in 3 years also. You dont win cups without defense.

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02-08-2013, 09:02 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Cool. I don't agree.

The Blues are getting exposed with their hole on LD. And Stewart is their most valuable expendable asset to fill it. After a hot start, he's back to struggling in that system. He's just not a fit.
So who do we have on left defense that is going to help St. Louis? Orpik? They won't take that contract at this time I don't think. They're losing money like a leaky boat. Niskanen? Ideally he'd play on right defense. Plus, he's not a stabilizer, and they already have Pietrangelo and Shattenkirk. Martin? Too expensive and we know he sucks on the left side. It's official. Anybody else won't help them this year. Besides, the Blues have a pretty good prospect in Ian Cole just sitting in the press box. He can help them. Unfortunately for them, Hitchcock has a fetish for Kris Russell and Wade Redden. He's a bit like Disco in that regard.

I think you're reaching here with St. Louis.

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02-08-2013, 09:11 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
So who do we have on left defense that is going to help St. Louis? Orpik? They won't take that contract at this time I don't think. They're losing money like a leaky boat. Niskanen? Ideally he'd play on right defense. Plus, he's not a stabilizer, and they already have Pietrangelo and Shattenkirk. Martin? Too expensive and we know he sucks on the left side. It's official. Anybody else won't help them this year. Besides, the Blues have a pretty good prospect in Ian Cole just sitting in the press box. He can help them. Unfortunately for them, Hitchcock has a fetish for Kris Russell and Wade Redden. He's a bit like Disco in that regard.

I think you're reaching here with St. Louis.
I've been pretty consistent since the start of the season saying Niskanen is an upgrade for them. Most certainly over Wade freaking Redden and a bunch of rookies sitting in the press box. He prefers to play the left side, Nisky has said so in many interviews. He's virtually stayed on the left his entire time here. He's cheap and has upside left to be tapped.

Nisky would be playing with Letang right now and likely into the postseason if he wasn't hurt and Despres not breaking out like he has. He's not good enough for the Blues though?

IMO, DA is waiting for the right time to move him. He knows he's not a fit with the team under Hitch. He's a one dimensional player. You're not going to get the best out of him unless he's playing in a more uptempo system with an elite playmaker. They can move him at the draft for futures or they can move him in the next few weeks for a piece that helps them compete in the postseason.

Niskanen on Pietro's LD helps them far more than Stewart playing 13 minutes with Steen or Berglund.

Add a D prospect like Harrington or Maatta to give them a longterm piece on the backend and the Blues get a very solid return for a depreciating asset.

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02-08-2013, 09:14 PM
  #141
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I'll also add...Iginla may be worth while addition for two reasons.

1. He's a free agent after this season, so hopefully we could get his cap hit down. Still not completely sold that at his age he'd want to take a deal like that as he still has some good hockey to play. I'm also not 100% sold that he wants to leave Calgary

2. I think his leadership off the ice, and his influence in the room would be infinitely bigger than anything Perry could bring in that regard, and I also think Iginla could match Perry stat for stat over the course of a season here for less money.


I still wouldn't give up a king's ransom for Iginla. I just don't think we have to do that at this point. If Iginla is on the move, I'll be real interested to hear what kind of packages are being offered up, as I'm sure a young-ish team will be willing to part with a ton to get him, and pay him anything he wants.
Let's not forget that Iginla controls where he goes (and if he goes). So, any young-ish team may WANT Iggy, but if he doesn't want them it doesn't matter. I would think that Iggy's list would be quite small...including Calgary and probably 2-3 Eastern Conference teams. That's just a guess.

As for what it would take to get him? I'm thinking one roster player and one top prospect would be the package needed to get Iginla. Knowing Calgary, they'll never go into full-blown rebuilding mode, so they'll want someone to replace Iggy right away. I'm thinking something like Chris Kunitz and Derrick Pouliot for Iginla would be what it would take.


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Originally Posted by cheesedanish87 View Post
I see some people talking about a replacement for dupuis on top line not sure what your watching the guys a good hockey player scored 25 goals last year without sid great pk and def guy good locker room guy might be the best deal in hockey considering how little he makes. I hope we sign this guy to an extension sometime during the season.
He might not be cheap forever. He has taken less money before. No guarantees he'll do it again, especially if he hits the open market. Remember what happened when Max Talbot hit the open market? The same could happen with Dupuis.

I don't know. It's not a terrible idea to let Dupuis go this summer and look to replace him with someone with more skill. Someone such as Beau Bennett, for example.

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02-08-2013, 09:21 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
I've been pretty consistent since the start of the season saying Niskanen is an upgrade for them. Most certainly over Wade freaking Redden and a bunch of rookies sitting in the press box. He prefers to play the left side, Nisky has said so in many interviews. He's virtually stayed on the left his entire time here. He's cheap and has upside left to be tapped.

Nisky would be playing with Letang right now and likely into the postseason if he wasn't hurt and Despres not breaking out like he has. He's not good enough for the Blues though?

IMO, DA is waiting for the right time to move him. He knows he's not a fit with the team under Hitch. He's a one dimensional player. You're not going to get the best out of him unless he's playing in a more uptempo system with an elite playmaker. They can move him at the draft for futures or they can move him in the next few weeks for a piece that helps them compete in the postseason.

Niskanen on Pietro's LD helps them far more than Stewart playing 13 minutes with Steen or Berglund.

Add a D prospect like Harrington or Maatta to give them a longterm piece on the backend and the Blues get a very solid return for a depreciating asset.
You're overrating our players. Ian Cole is just as good on left defense as Matt Niskanen is. Different type of player, but just as good. The Blues' issues go beyond adding a Matt Niskanen to their blueline. Again, they have the D corps to get out of this slump they're in.

I don't disagree that they probably would love to get out from under ANY contracts that aren't producing. But they're in a very difficult predicament, in that they're among the top contenders in the Western Conference and yet can't really take on any salary. So, basically they need to become another Nashville or Phoenix. And I don't think they have the goaltending to do that.

Anyways, 'throwing in' one of our D prospects for Chris Stewart is not something I'd be interested in doing at this time. I'm keeping our D prospects unless we're adding an elite winger. Otherwise, deal the Niskanen's, Dupuis', Cooke's, Kennedy's et al.

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02-08-2013, 09:26 PM
  #143
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I'll also add...Iginla may be worth while addition for two reasons.

1. He's a free agent after this season, so hopefully we could get his cap hit down. Still not completely sold that at his age he'd want to take a deal like that as he still has some good hockey to play. I'm also not 100% sold that he wants to leave Calgary

2. I think his leadership off the ice, and his influence in the room would be infinitely bigger than anything Perry could bring in that regard, and I also think Iginla could match Perry stat for stat over the course of a season here for less money.


I still wouldn't give up a king's ransom for Iginla. I just don't think we have to do that at this point. If Iginla is on the move, I'll be real interested to hear what kind of packages are being offered up, as I'm sure a young-ish team will be willing to part with a ton to get him, and pay him anything he wants.
Not to mention Iginla would bring that added motivation of winning a Cup for an all time great ala Bourque in Colorado. That can't hurt IMO!

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02-08-2013, 09:34 PM
  #144
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You're overrating our players. Ian Cole is just as good on left defense as Matt Niskanen is. Different type of player, but just as good. The Blues' issues go beyond adding a Matt Niskanen to their blueline. Again, they have the D corps to get out of this slump they're in.

I don't disagree that they probably would love to get out from under ANY contracts that aren't producing. But they're in a very difficult predicament, in that they're among the top contenders in the Western Conference and yet can't really take on any salary. So, basically they need to become another Nashville or Phoenix. And I don't think they have the goaltending to do that.

Anyways, 'throwing in' one of our D prospects for Chris Stewart is not something I'd be interested in doing at this time. I'm keeping our D prospects unless we're adding an elite winger. Otherwise, deal the Niskanen's, Dupuis', Cooke's, Kennedy's et al.
Nisky is a better defender than Cole at this point. At the very least, it gives them two legit options for a top pairing role in the postseason if Cole takes the next step. At this point, Niskanen is the far more proven commodity. As long as he comes back from injury and plays to his capability, we have a solid trade chip on our hands.

The Blues will have to move Stewart eventually. Would they rather take a future or a piece that can help them now and another that helps them longterm.

Why not move one of Harrington/Maatta for Stewart? They're not making this roster anytime soon. We get a proven 28 goal scorer with size, wheels and RHS who plays the front of the net and who we can sign longterm in the summer as a RFA.

If you'd rather target someone else, cool. But the whole, I'm holding onto my D prospects for elite wingers. Well, we don't need an Iginla or Perry. And in case you forgot, Neal was on a very similar career path to Stewart before he was traded here and now we call him elite.

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02-08-2013, 09:39 PM
  #145
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Not to mention Iginla would bring that added motivation of winning a Cup for an all time great ala Bourque in Colorado. That can't hurt IMO!
Sid being out for almost 2 seasons, and the team being embarrassed in the 1st round by their archrival should be motivation enough.

But sure, it couldn't hurt.

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02-08-2013, 10:09 PM
  #146
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Let's not forget that Iginla controls where he goes (and if he goes). So, any young-ish team may WANT Iggy, but if he doesn't want them it doesn't matter. I would think that Iggy's list would be quite small...including Calgary and probably 2-3 Eastern Conference teams. That's just a guess.

As for what it would take to get him? I'm thinking one roster player and one top prospect would be the package needed to get Iginla. Knowing Calgary, they'll never go into full-blown rebuilding mode, so they'll want someone to replace Iggy right away. I'm thinking something like Chris Kunitz and Derrick Pouliot for Iginla would be what it would take.




He might not be cheap forever. He has taken less money before. No guarantees he'll do it again, especially if he hits the open market. Remember what happened when Max Talbot hit the open market? The same could happen with Dupuis.

I don't know. It's not a terrible idea to let Dupuis go this summer and look to replace him with someone with more skill. Someone such as Beau Bennett, for example.
I think it is a bad idea. Even though Dupuis is due for a substantial raise, I feel like even double his current salary would be well worth it. I'm not against bumping him out of the top 6 (that would be ideal), but I'm very much against letting him walk. In addition to being one of our top point producers 5-on-5, he's one of our best PKing forwards and probably the hardest working player on the team. I think he brings a lot of intangibles that make whatever his next salary is (say, 3 million or something) well worth it.

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02-09-2013, 01:20 AM
  #147
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Not exactly winger related, but: Martin has been our best Dman this year. Let's say he keeps this up for the entire season, including playoffs. What happens? I know he makes 5MM, and it's going to be hard to fit everyone under the cap, but ... do you trade him and hope for the best?
Yes, that is precisely what we do. We trade him, well in advance of his contract expiring when he'll still hold substantial trade value, and if Nisky/Despres/Bortuzzo are all as good as everyone here thinks they are, then we should be fine. As long as we bring in a winger whose offense will help us on that end. (I would't want to trade Martin for futures only, unless we parlayed those futures into a deal for an established player).


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Schwartz looks like he's not ready for the NHL yet. So if they move Stewart, a roster forward coming back would interest the Blues IMO. TK being a RFA at year's end would interest them. DA had interest in him before, no reason to think he wouldn't like him as a 2nd or third piece in a deal. While solidifying his D and maintaining his forward depth.

Nisky+Harrington+TK for Stewart+3rd. Add a conditional pick on our side if need be with Nisky being a UFA in two seasons.

Maatta+1st for Kulemin+3rd.

No idea if those are doable, but having our top six set and still having our most valuable D prospects and Bennett in the fold is a win for our organization.

Dude, I'm sorry, but some of your proposals are absolutely brutal. Aside from the fact that we could very possibly get Stewart for Niskanen straight up, if Harrington was actually on the table for Stewart, after blowing a massive nut and possibly having a heart attack, Ken Hitchcock would be singing in the car all the way to the airport to drop Stewart off to get Harrington in the fold. You really do not understand how highly regarded Harrington is within the Hockey Canada ranks (and Hitchcock is very high in those Hockey Canada ranks).

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02-09-2013, 01:48 AM
  #148
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Dude, I'm sorry, but some of your proposals are absolutely brutal. Aside from the fact that we could very possibly get Stewart for Niskanen straight up, if Harrington was actually on the table for Stewart, after blowing a massive nut and possibly having a heart attack, Ken Hitchcock would be singing in the car all the way to the airport to drop Stewart off to get Harrington in the fold. You really do not understand how highly regarded Harrington is within the Hockey Canada ranks (and Hitchcock is very high in those Hockey Canada ranks).
You are not suggesting, as it appears, that Harrington could fetch Stewart by himself, right? I didn't just read that.

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02-09-2013, 07:02 AM
  #149
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I would love to insert Boychuk, Tangradi AND Jeffrey into our 2013-14 lineup, replacing the more expensive veteran wingers that are headed to UFA status. That situation helps us moving forward. But we can't get THERE unless we give these guys a chance to prove they belong in the NHL. We STILL don't know.
That sounds terrible. Bad teams stick players of that ilk in their bottom 6. I'd much rather have Glass-Vitale-Adams than a Tangradi/Boychuk on the 4th line as they aren't talented enough to create enough offense to offset their lack of grit/forechecking/crash and bang game. So they end up doing very little to affect the game.

Similarly, I'd rather have Dupuis re-signed and next to Sutter than Tangradi or Boychuk (if he's not back in the top 6, again one new addition and Bennett gets Dupuis to the 3rd line).

Jeffrey is a different case as he has the ability to provide something on every line.

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02-09-2013, 07:16 AM
  #150
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Who said L2 LW needs to be properly filled today. From what I can tell, those who argue that there are issues to resolve on L1 RW and L2 LW say that prospects are expendable and that the Pens should address these two issues between now and the deadline based on when appropriate deals present themselves. Now, we can debate what is and what is not appropriate but not the need.
Problem I have is some are just willing to give up any prospect, I'm not just yet and that's probably the problem. Anyways like I said I have no doubt that Shero will eventually address this winger situation

Le Magnifique 66 is offline   Reply With Quote
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