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Calgary Flames @ Columbus Blue Jackets, 5PM on SNET-W and the Fan 960

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Old
02-08-2013, 11:12 AM
  #426
Volica
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
Backlund plays with skill better than Stajan based on what? Stajan produces around a 55-60 point pace in an 82 game season when with skill I highly doubt Backlund out produces that.

Stajan is a better faceoff center giving the Czechs the puck more often and allowing for a more offensive shift. Stajan is also a better defensive forward allowing the Czechs to focus on playing offensively and allowing them to take more chances.

While Backlund maybe a more skilled player there is nothing that says he would be a better fit on that line, nor does his goal which was nice positioning but nothing Stajan couldn't have done if he is on the ice.
Interesting about the point pace. In a Calgary uniform Stajan's been rocking a 33 point/82 game rate. While Backlund's been at 28p/82 games.
That's including Stajan's time with the top line, Backlund's general 3rd/4th line role on the team.

Also, his highest point season, he was playing with Antropov/Poni/Blake and Hagman.
I, in a million years, would not consider those top tier skill players.

Also, Matt's sick 17 goals in Calgary over the past four seasons makes me think, he couldn't score that goal lol.

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02-08-2013, 11:15 AM
  #427
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Interesting about the point pace. In a Calgary uniform Stajan's been rocking a 33 point/82 game rate. While Backlund's been at 28p/82 games.
That's including Stajan's time with the top line, Backlund's general 3rd/4th line role on the team.

Also, his highest point season, he was playing with Antropov/Poni/Blake and Hagman.
I, in a million years, would not consider those top tier skill players.

Also, Matt's sick 17 goals in Calgary over the past four seasons makes me think, he couldn't score that goal lol.
Stajan has only played 50 games in the top 6, and then played over 100 on the bottom 6 I don't get how is ppg proves he doesn't play well with talent if anything it proves he only plays well with talent. Backlund had just as much opportunity as Stajan has over the past 2 years and yet Stajan has still out produced him, but I guess some people need a whipping boy.

Over the last 3 years Stajan has 17 goals and Backlund has 15, I am sure Stajan couldn't score when the elite sniper Backlund can

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02-08-2013, 11:22 AM
  #428
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Missed this game completely, went car shopping

Anyways, how did the Flames play? I don't wanna read 18 pages, thanks dudes.

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02-08-2013, 11:33 AM
  #429
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Missed this game completely, went car shopping

Anyways, how did the Flames play? I don't wanna read 18 pages, thanks dudes.
They started out flat, weren't moving their feet, and took some bad penalties that cost them. Giordano was having a particularly bad game. Irving was serviceable and made saves when he had to. The Flames didn't pick it up until the start of the second, but for that period and most of the third they controlled the play.

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02-08-2013, 11:47 AM
  #430
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
Stajan has only played 50 games in the top 6, and then played over 100 on the bottom 6 I don't get how is ppg proves he doesn't play well with talent if anything it proves he only plays well with talent. Backlund had just as much opportunity as Stajan has over the past 2 years and yet Stajan has still out produced him, but I guess some people need a whipping boy.

Over the last 3 years Stajan has 17 goals and Backlund has 15, I am sure Stajan couldn't score when the elite sniper Backlund can
In those three years (not including this year), Backlund has only played 137 games and scored 15 goals. Stajan has played 164 games and scored 17 goals.

Stajan is also in the "peak" of his career. Backlund is starting his career.

Also, Backlund hasn't played 50 games with the top line. He was going to be given that chance a couple of years ago, but got injured. He was then relegated to 3rd-line minutes.

Regardless, both Backlund and Stajan are playing well. Given Backlund's youth and higher skill level, I would like to see him get a chance to play with Cervenka and Hudler. Backlund looked good with them last night, and, like Stajan, he's a sound defensive centre.

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02-08-2013, 12:49 PM
  #431
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My concern lies at the point of where Irving must be leaned on as a #1 - I want to give him a chance, but it's not easy when you have had a wonderfully consistent player such as Kiprusoff the last 8 seasons perform as well as he has behind a lackluster, offence-deficient team.


Like someone else said, I can't believe the hand-wringing over Leland Irving.

You're deluding yourself if you think Kiprusoff has been "wonderfully consistent" over the past four years or so. He has only been so relative to his backups, who have been atrocious.

You're never going to know what Leland Irving can and can't do if you don't give the guy a chance, and of all the other goalies who have worn a Flames uniform in the last seven years he's the one who has shown the most promise and deserved a chance. Yes, he may have been a little shaky last night, but HE WON. That's more than we ever would have expected from Henrik Karlsson, Curtis McElhinney, Phil Sauve, Brian Boucher, etc. And quite frankly that's about all we could have expected from Kiprusoff this season.

Maybe you weren't paying attention to the first six games of the season. Kiprusoff certainly hasn't stolen any of them for the Flames.

Jan. 20 vs. the Sharks? Crap.
Jan. 21 vs. the Ducks? Crap.
Jan. 23 vs. the Canucks? Great in the losing effort.
Jan. 26 vs. the Oilers? Mediocre at best, the team didn't win because of him that's for sure.
Jan. 31 vs. the Avalanche? Terrible.
Feb. 2 vs. the Blackhawks? Mediocre, but not his fault the team lost.
Feb. 5 vs. the Red Wings? Great. Easily his best game of the season, the 40 mins he played anyway.


Was Irving great last night? No. 'Adequate' perhaps, but I don't know why you'd be expecting any better. I don't think you would have gotten better from Kiprusoff.


If think every Flames fan should be very happy with Leland Irving's performance. He's a Flames backup who won a game. Let that sink in! When's the last time a Flames backup goalie was consistently good enough in a given game to actually win? Other than Curtis Joseph's brief term with the Flames a few years back they haven't had backup goaltending as good as Leland Irving since Roman Turek and Jamie McLellan in 2003-2004. Coincidentally Kiprusoff's best season ever...


Last edited by Hoser: 02-08-2013 at 12:56 PM.
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02-08-2013, 01:31 PM
  #432
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Like someone else said, I can't believe the hand-wringing over Leland Irving.

You're deluding yourself if you think Kiprusoff has been "wonderfully consistent" over the past four years or so. He has only been so relative to his backups, who have been atrocious.

You're never going to know what Leland Irving can and can't do if you don't give the guy a chance, and of all the other goalies who have worn a Flames uniform in the last seven years he's the one who has shown the most promise and deserved a chance. Yes, he may have been a little shaky last night, but HE WON. That's more than we ever would have expected from Henrik Karlsson, Curtis McElhinney, Phil Sauve, Brian Boucher, etc. And quite frankly that's about all we could have expected from Kiprusoff this season.

Maybe you weren't paying attention to the first six games of the season. Kiprusoff certainly hasn't stolen any of them for the Flames.

Jan. 20 vs. the Sharks? Crap.
Jan. 21 vs. the Ducks? Crap.
Jan. 23 vs. the Canucks? Great in the losing effort.
Jan. 26 vs. the Oilers? Mediocre at best, the team didn't win because of him that's for sure.
Jan. 31 vs. the Avalanche? Terrible.
Feb. 2 vs. the Blackhawks? Mediocre, but not his fault the team lost.
Feb. 5 vs. the Red Wings? Great. Easily his best game of the season, the 40 mins he played anyway.


Was Irving great last night? No. 'Adequate' perhaps, but I don't know why you'd be expecting any better. I don't think you would have gotten better from Kiprusoff.


If think every Flames fan should be very happy with Leland Irving's performance. He's a Flames backup who won a game. Let that sink in! When's the last time a Flames backup goalie was consistently good enough in a given game to actually win? Other than Curtis Joseph's brief term with the Flames a few years back they haven't had backup goaltending as good as Leland Irving since Roman Turek and Jamie McLellan in 2003-2004. Coincidentally Kiprusoff's best season ever...
Yup, this, that being said this is the first time in 6 years give or take where a backup wasn't playing on the rear end of a back-to-back. That may or may not have had something to do with the Flames performance in front of him last night compared to how they played in front of every backup over the last 6 years.

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02-08-2013, 01:36 PM
  #433
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Gotta give Irving a chance to show what he can do. He's paid his due for sure

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02-08-2013, 01:42 PM
  #434
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Originally Posted by Northern Neighbour View Post
In those three years (not including this year), Backlund has only played 137 games and scored 15 goals. Stajan has played 164 games and scored 17 goals.

Stajan is also in the "peak" of his career. Backlund is starting his career.

Also, Backlund hasn't played 50 games with the top line. He was going to be given that chance a couple of years ago, but got injured. He was then relegated to 3rd-line minutes.

Regardless, both Backlund and Stajan are playing well. Given Backlund's youth and higher skill level, I would like to see him get a chance to play with Cervenka and Hudler. Backlund looked good with them last night, and, like Stajan, he's a sound defensive centre.
He played 33.6% of his 5v5 time last year with Iginla, so he played 183 minutes on the top line last year, and at an average of 14 minutes of 5v5 a night that our top line center averaged last year that is 13 games. The season before he played ~ 25% of his 5v5 time with the top line for 14 games. Over the last 2 years both have played about the same number of games on the top line (around 25 games) and Stajan has averaged .36 ppg and Backlund averaged .32 ppg so I see no argument to Backlund playing with skilled players better


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02-08-2013, 01:53 PM
  #435
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Originally Posted by Hoser View Post


Like someone else said, I can't believe the hand-wringing over Leland Irving.

You're deluding yourself if you think Kiprusoff has been "wonderfully consistent" over the past four years or so. He has only been so relative to his backups, who have been atrocious.

You're never going to know what Leland Irving can and can't do if you don't give the guy a chance, and of all the other goalies who have worn a Flames uniform in the last seven years he's the one who has shown the most promise and deserved a chance. Yes, he may have been a little shaky last night, but HE WON. That's more than we ever would have expected from Henrik Karlsson, Curtis McElhinney, Phil Sauve, Brian Boucher, etc. And quite frankly that's about all we could have expected from Kiprusoff this season.

Maybe you weren't paying attention to the first six games of the season. Kiprusoff certainly hasn't stolen any of them for the Flames.

Jan. 20 vs. the Sharks? Crap.
Jan. 21 vs. the Ducks? Crap.
Jan. 23 vs. the Canucks? Great in the losing effort.
Jan. 26 vs. the Oilers? Mediocre at best, the team didn't win because of him that's for sure.
Jan. 31 vs. the Avalanche? Terrible.
Feb. 2 vs. the Blackhawks? Mediocre, but not his fault the team lost.
Feb. 5 vs. the Red Wings? Great. Easily his best game of the season, the 40 mins he played anyway.



Was Irving great last night? No. 'Adequate' perhaps, but I don't know why you'd be expecting any better. I don't think you would have gotten better from Kiprusoff.


If think every Flames fan should be very happy with Leland Irving's performance. He's a Flames backup who won a game. Let that sink in! When's the last time a Flames backup goalie was consistently good enough in a given game to actually win? Other than Curtis Joseph's brief term with the Flames a few years back they haven't had backup goaltending as good as Leland Irving since Roman Turek and Jamie McLellan in 2003-2004. Coincidentally Kiprusoff's best season ever...
Yep, that is pretty much a perfect assessment of him thus far.

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02-08-2013, 02:19 PM
  #436
Rick Sanchez
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I noticed that Backlund left the game with injury, has there been any news as to what is hurt and the severity?

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02-08-2013, 02:25 PM
  #437
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I noticed that Backlund left the game with injury, has there been any news as to what is hurt and the severity?
Lower body injury is what I have heard. He's supposed to be evaluated today.

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02-08-2013, 02:32 PM
  #438
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Lower body injury is what I have heard. He's supposed to be evaluated today.
Flames love patterns, and the pattern says LBI:

Baertschi - Hip Flexor
Kipper - LBI (Knee) - Haven't officially said but Millions said it was MCL Related
Cammo - Hip Flexor
Backlund - LBI (Knee) - Knee on Knee collision

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02-08-2013, 03:09 PM
  #439
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Flames love patterns, and the pattern says LBI:

Baertschi - Hip Flexor
Kipper - LBI (Knee) - Haven't officially said but Millions said it was MCL Related
Cammo - Hip Flexor
Backlund - LBI (Knee) - Knee on Knee collision
Even our young guys (Sven) get senior citizen injuries. No wonder we're the oldest team in the league

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02-08-2013, 04:16 PM
  #440
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He played 33.6% of his 5v5 time last year with Iginla, so he played 183 minutes on the top line last year, and at an average of 14 minutes of 5v5 a night that our top line center averaged last year that is 13 games. The season before he played ~ 25% of his 5v5 time with the top line for 14 games. Over the last 2 years both have played about the same number of games on the top line (around 25 games) and Stajan has averaged .36 ppg and Backlund averaged .32 ppg so I see no argument to Backlund playing with skilled players better
Backlund is a young developing player, comparing him and his goal totals to a vet like Stajan isn't totally fair. I don't care what Corsi numbers say. Backlund has a much higher ceiling than Stajan in his prime. Yes they are comparable producers now, but given the right opportunity and patience, Backlund should have the better career. Backlund has skill that Stajan simply doesn't.

Stajan has been doing great this season and its easily the best he's looked as a Flame. I'm happy we have him.

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02-08-2013, 04:19 PM
  #441
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Backlund is a young developing player, comparing him and his goal totals to a vet like Stajan isn't totally fair. I don't care what Corsi numbers say. Backlund has a much higher ceiling than Stajan in his prime. Yes they are comparable producers now, but given the right opportunity and patience, Backlund should have the better career. Backlund has skill that Stajan simply doesn't.

Stajan has been doing great this season and its easily the best he's looked as a Flame. I'm happy we have him.
Yes my point was someone said that Backlund should play with the Cezhs as he plays with skill than Stajan does but there is literally no proof to that.

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02-08-2013, 04:22 PM
  #442
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Yes my point was someone said that Backlund should play with the Cezhs as he plays with skill than Stajan does but there is literally no proof to that.
The only way to find out the answer to that is to try it, and see what combination is better.

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02-08-2013, 04:45 PM
  #443
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The only way to find out the answer to that is to try it, and see what combination is better.
While true why take a chance our breaking up our best line( not that it matters now Backlund is on IR)

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02-08-2013, 04:50 PM
  #444
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As good as Backlund looked with the Czech line, I feel the scoring might be spread out more if Stajan sticks with them.

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02-08-2013, 04:52 PM
  #445
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The only way to find out the answer to that is to try it, and see what combination is better.
And like I said multiple time, no need to fix what isn't broken ATM. The moment they falter and stop producing, than I will be all for giving Backs the opportunity, but right now, Stajan has been great with them

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02-08-2013, 04:53 PM
  #446
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As good as Backlund looked with the Czech line, I feel the scoring might be spread out more if Stajan sticks with them.
I also agree with this, in our system we need 3 scoring lines it is much easier to do with Stajan with the Cezhs.

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02-08-2013, 04:55 PM
  #447
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I also agree with this, in our system we need 3 scoring lines it is much easier to do with Stajan with the Cezhs.
Backlund also seems to fit with everyone he has played with this season. Keep Backlund with Glencross/Cammalleri and Stempniak.

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02-08-2013, 05:00 PM
  #448
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As good as Backlund looked with the Czech line, I feel the scoring might be spread out more if Stajan sticks with them.
My thoughts as well. Why lump all their producing together when you can have Backs producing and gelling others produce on a different line and keep the Czechs production. It's not like Backlund has been playing with bums.

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02-08-2013, 05:16 PM
  #449
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3.5 Million on a cap, for a third line center.
You could throw Stajan on waives and no one would probably take him. Forget the second round pick.
An almost entirely meaningless statement. You realize that if the Capitals, for whatever reason, just decided to waive Ovechkin, that he wouldn't be picked up either? Similarly, if Vancouver did the same with Luongo? Or Lecavalier and Tampa Bay? What a lot of people don't seem to understand about the waiver process is that even if a player isn't picked, it doesn't mean no wants them. It's much more likely that no one wants that contract, especially if it comes with term.

Consider it this way - Feaster decides that winning faceoffs is completely unnecessary to the makeup of a successful team. Thus, Stajan has to go and is promptly waived. Now, imagine you're GM Garth Snow and you see Stajan on waivers. You see that his cap hit is 3.5M but his actual salary is only 2.5M, which is incredibly attractive given how cheap Charles Wang is. But there's a risk - there's a reason why Stajan was waived and he's still owed 2.5M, a fairly hefty salary. So why should you take an underperforming Stajan for 'free', particularly when the much more logical route to down is to make a hockey trade. You can trade away a contract you don't want, like say Marty Reasoner, so you can free up a roster spot and not add to your contract limit, as well as not paying the waiver fee, nor do you get another GM out of a jam for free.

Ovechkin, Lecavalier and Luongo are all owed 10M, in actual dollars, a season for the next few years. The teams with the cap space to pick them, can't actually afford to pay them that much. Not that anyone of them would actually be waived.

Lastly, you missed the point about the second round pick entirely. The Flames organization isn't about to dump 2.5M in real dollars on the farm team just to get rid of a player. If they truly want Stajan to go away, they'll do so by trade and only by trade. Expecting buyouts and utilization of the waiver process as a means of getting rid of a player with a significant cap hit/term, when the organization has repeatedly shown that that's a route they won't go down, is bizarre.

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