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Ray Shero

View Poll Results: Do you believe in Shero?
I believe in Shero. Hes immortal after he brough us Neal 75 43.60%
Mixed feelings, gonna give him some time 75 43.60%
No longer believing in him. He had an awful off-season 22 12.79%
Voters: 172. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-07-2013, 03:01 PM
  #201
UnderratedBrooks44
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Originally Posted by The Tang View Post
This is what I don't like. I admit: I'm a Fleury supporter and there is no way to argue against his playoff performance. What I don't like about the whole situation is that there were 18 skaters in front of him and a coaching staff that **** the bed also but Fleury takes nearly all of the blame since he was teh worst of the lot. And to be hoenst; I'm surprised the Pens lasted as long as they did. They played terrible the last month and the writing was on the wall for a playoff choke. What happened should not have been a surprise.
I just don't know why people are so averse to the fact that it's a team sport. Sure, sometimes a goalie just isn't very good but come on. Cross ice one-timers by star players aren't usually stopped. Letting Giroux float into the slot and label one for right under the cross bar isn't usually stopped. Fleury could absolutely make more big saves, but if you're asking him to make a half dozen of them as opposed to like, two, you might want to stop getting in situations where you're just asking the other team to score.

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02-08-2013, 12:10 PM
  #202
spizzle420
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Ray's done great things and almost always entertains at the Trade Deadline, including key moves for Hossa, Kunitz, Guerin, Neal, Nisky, Dupuis.... etc.... Staal/Sutter

Who's a more entertaining/better GM since the last lockout?

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02-08-2013, 01:50 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by spizzle420 View Post
Ray's done great things and almost always entertains at the Trade Deadline, including key moves for Hossa, Kunitz, Guerin, Neal, Nisky, Dupuis.... etc.... Staal/Sutter

Who's a more entertaining/better GM since the last lockout?
More entertaining? Paul Holmgren

Better? I dare not get involved with answering that.

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02-08-2013, 01:56 PM
  #204
TheSniper26
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Unfortunately it seems that, for many, entertaining = better. I'm pretty convinced that the Pens could go 20-0 to start the year and people would still be clamoring for a deal to be made just for the sake of it.

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02-08-2013, 02:06 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by TheSniper26 View Post
Unfortunately it seems that, for many, entertaining = better. I'm pretty convinced that the Pens could go 20-0 to start the year and people would still be clamoring for a deal to be made just for the sake of it.
Same way they are now with the Pens at 8-3.

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02-08-2013, 03:10 PM
  #206
spizzle420
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entertaining in that he acted when he should have ... more times than not.

not to mention those contracts $ are all top value

I'm not understanding criticism altho it's true there is a hole or two to plug up front.... so we wait...

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02-08-2013, 03:16 PM
  #207
UnderratedBrooks44
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Originally Posted by TheSniper26 View Post
Unfortunately it seems that, for many, entertaining = better. I'm pretty convinced that the Pens could go 20-0 to start the year and people would still be clamoring for a deal to be made just for the sake of it.
I don't think that's why. The regular season is not the playoffs.

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02-08-2013, 03:19 PM
  #208
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Some people are never happy. We are paying Sid and geno 8.7 ...Neal 5 mil..etc. yet people are mad about having guys like Kennedy , dupuis, Cooke , etc on the roster. Should be filled with hossa's and parise's . No reason we can't have a dream team every year. It's not like there's a cap.

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02-08-2013, 03:24 PM
  #209
Lamar Latrell
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This thread is silly. Shero has generally done a good job, I definitely have my quibbles but on the whole it's been a positive. Also, the options are terribly worded. The first one is worded in such a dickish, sarcastic way, the second is too non-committal and the third is absurdly pessimistic and cynical.

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02-08-2013, 03:30 PM
  #210
TheSniper26
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Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
I don't think that's why. The regular season is not the playoffs.
Of course not. I'm not saying that this team doesn't have weaknesses that should be addressed. I just think that there is a certain contingent on here that will always have some reason that they think some big deal needs to be made. We could swing a deal for Bobby Ryan tomorrow and go on to win the cup, and some people will still be looking for big moves in the offseason.

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Old
02-08-2013, 06:55 PM
  #211
Ziggyjoe21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
So who's fault is not having a capable backup in case MAF has a bad series or so he doesn't have to play something like 20+ games in a row down the stretch? And who hired DB?

Also, do you think that MAF should get a free pass for the last three years of poor play because he was great in 2008 and 2009?
Brent Johnson was great 2 seasons ago so there was no need to bring in a new goalie prior to last season. I don't think bringing in a new backup is necessary when the backup doesn't play in the playoffs anyway.

3 years of poor play? Do you have the memory of a gold fish?? Last season Fleury was every bit as valuable to the team as Malkin. If not for Fleury the Pens would be a borderline playoff team regardless of Geno's performance. Fleury was also the main reason the Pens made the playoffs in 2011 when Sid and Geno were out.

Yes, Shero hired DB and then gave him an extension, and rightfully so. Bylsma had achieved the 2 ultimate awards a coach can achieve, won a championship and won coach of the year. Bylsma is one of Shero's best moves as a GM.

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02-08-2013, 07:03 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by Ziggyjoe21 View Post
Brent Johnson was great 2 seasons ago so there was no need to bring in a new goalie prior to last season. I don't think bringing in a new backup is necessary when the backup doesn't play in the playoffs anyway.

3 years of poor play? Do you have the memory of a gold fish?? Last season Fleury was every bit as valuable to the team as Malkin. If not for Fleury the Pens would be a borderline playoff team regardless of Geno's performance. Fleury was also the main reason the Pens made the playoffs in 2011 when Sid and Geno were out.

Yes, Shero hired DB and then gave him an extension, and rightfully so. Bylsma had achieved the 2 ultimate awards a coach can achieve, won a championship and won coach of the year. Bylsma is one of Shero's best moves as a GM.
Shero could have made a move for a backup during the season, once it was clear that BJ wasn't able to back-up MAF.

I'm one of the biggest MAF supporters on these boards, so no need to explain his value to the team. My point is that everyone keeps saying that MAF can't continue to get a pass because of 8 and 09, yet many give Shero a pass because of those years.

I disagree strongly with the last part. This team has out grown DB.

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Old
02-08-2013, 07:16 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by TheSniper26 View Post
Unfortunately it seems that, for many, entertaining = better. I'm pretty convinced that the Pens could go 20-0 to start the year and people would still be clamoring for a deal to be made just for the sake of it.
Jeffrey, Tangradi and Boychuk don't have a single point this season. Kennedy scored a goal in the second game not playing with geno. I think we have a serious hole on genos wing, you are irrational if you think geno and Neal don't need a winger acquired because the pens don't have the answer on the team now and certainly not in Wilkes barre

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02-08-2013, 07:25 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by No Wingers View Post
Jeffrey, Tangradi and Boychuk don't have a single point this season. Kennedy scored a goal in the second game not playing with geno. I think we have a serious hole on genos wing, you are irrational if you think geno and Neal don't need a winger acquired because the pens don't have the answer on the team now and certainly not in Wilkes barre
Where did I say that we don't need help on the wings? Of course we do. But again, there is just a certain breed of fan that will always want the gm making deals no matter what the current state of the team is. The "grass is greener" type. This is who I was talking about. You're equally irrational if you don't think this kind of fan exists. The fact that Ray Shero is being judged by how many "risks" he takes should tell you all you need to know.

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02-08-2013, 07:43 PM
  #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
Shero could have made a move for a backup during the season, once it was clear that BJ wasn't able to back-up MAF.

I'm one of the biggest MAF supporters on these boards, so no need to explain his value to the team. My point is that everyone keeps saying that MAF can't continue to get a pass because of 8 and 09, yet many give Shero a pass because of those years.

I disagree strongly with the last part. This team has out grown DB.
how?

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02-08-2013, 09:24 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by No Wingers View Post
Jeffrey, Tangradi and Boychuk don't have a single point this season. Kennedy scored a goal in the second game not playing with geno. I think we have a serious hole on genos wing, you are irrational if you think geno and Neal don't need a winger acquired because the pens don't have the answer on the team now and certainly not in Wilkes barre

Kennedy has 1 point this season in 11 games. So for 12:20 per game w/1 point.

Tangradi has 0 points this season in 5 games. So 8:30 per game w/no points.

DJ has 0 points in three games. About 10:30 avg ice time

I'm pretty sure if you game DJ or ET another several games they could muster 1 point.

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02-08-2013, 10:20 PM
  #217
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Originally Posted by Will Hunting View Post
Personally, I think our problems are starting with him.

Here are some thoughts:

1) Hes leaving Sid with Kunitz and Dupuis for years and forever.
2) He traded Michalek for garbage.
3) He promised that hes gonna use that cap space, but he didnt make it happen.
4) Failed on Suter/Parise and had no plan B.
5) He let Sullivan go. Sully was very good for us in 2nd half of season and in PO. He wanted to stay, almost for free. But Shero wanted to try Tangradi/garbage there with Malkin. Our PP now has no entry skill and no blueline patience, which Sully provided.
6) He didnt bring somebody to replace Sullivan.
7) He continues to draft D-men.
8) Hes trolling us with a lot of AHL signings instead of making something important

I am accepting that Staal trade and appreciating Vokoun addition.

But still, is it enough? Do you still believe in RS?
1) Sid has looked better than any other point in his career with Kunitz & Dupuis. The trio works.
2) Just because you haven't heard of Ruopp doesn't mean he's garbage. It means you're uninformed.
3) He never promised or pinky swore. He will spend to the cap if it improves the club but not just for the sake of it.
4) Agreed.
5) Sullivan was terrible for the Penguins in a top-6 role and only looked good when he was on a checking line. But we can't be having a defensively weak forward playing a bottom-6 role.
6) Agreed.
7) He continues to draft the best player available. It's astounding how people still don't know what that means.
8) This makes no sense at all and using a term like "trolling" isn't going to help your case around here. This isn't 4chan

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02-08-2013, 10:41 PM
  #218
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how?
DB has been discussed to death on his own thread. Check there, I don't want to derail this into another DB thread.

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02-09-2013, 03:09 AM
  #219
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I hope that Shero will stay here a loooong time. He made some mistakes, he will make other mistakes, but I wouldn't want any other GM around here. He should have a +/- ratings of +100 :-D

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02-10-2013, 12:24 PM
  #220
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I've lost faith in him but yeah, who are you going to replace him with? Sid deserves and needs a winger. That should have been resolved by now.

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02-10-2013, 12:35 PM
  #221
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I've lost faith in him but yeah, who are you going to replace him with? Sid deserves and needs a winger. That should have been resolved by now.
Wings don't just grow on trees. And its not like he hasn't tried. Kunitz has been solid. Guerin was good. Satan, Feds, Malone, Sykora. Hossa was obviously good. Recchi before them for a bit. Neal was brought in for him and Sid was hurt for a year and a half at the wrong time. And he pushed hard for Parise. We were one Zach Parise's place of birth from having Sid's long term winger.

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02-10-2013, 12:39 PM
  #222
UnderratedBrooks44
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Originally Posted by TheSniper26 View Post
Of course not. I'm not saying that this team doesn't have weaknesses that should be addressed. I just think that there is a certain contingent on here that will always have some reason that they think some big deal needs to be made. We could swing a deal for Bobby Ryan tomorrow and go on to win the cup, and some people will still be looking for big moves in the offseason.
Yeah in that case I absolutely agree with that. As I've pointed out in previous posts, we can't add a crapload of salary with the cap going down and some raises coming up, and our assets may/may not be as valuable as everyone thinks, but people dream regardless.

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02-10-2013, 12:41 PM
  #223
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
Wings don't just grow on trees. And its not like he hasn't tried. Kunitz has been solid. Guerin was good. Satan, Feds, Malone, Sykora. Hossa was obviously good. Recchi before them for a bit. Neal was brought in for him and Sid was hurt for a year and a half at the wrong time. And he pushed hard for Parise. We were one Zach Parise's place of birth from having Sid's long term winger.
Nah.

Long-term, legitimate scoring wingers do grow on trees, and could've easily been fit under the Pens cap structure when Staal was here. It's only Shero's incompetence that's prevented the Pens from acquiring one of these dime-a-dozen types.

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02-10-2013, 12:46 PM
  #224
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I think some fans have the impresion running a hockey team is like playing monopoly or something. This isn't a department store or real estate office. He can't just go get whatever he wants as long as he has the money.

"No Plan B for Parise and Suter" is maybe one of the weakest arguments against Shero there is. You know WHY there was no plan B in the FA market? Because the market SUCKED. Our choices were limited to mediocre players, soft underachieving head-cases (Semin), and old guys who are overpaid and non-committal (Doan).

One day the people who constantly find the glass half empty with Shero (despite the very good things he's done with a tight cap situation) will figure out that he doesn't make overpayments for guys whose potential is high but whose consistency is poor, and he doesn't make moves just because he can. BE THANKFUL for that! He's patient and waits for the right opportunity to get the right guy, so that he's not overpaying or putting himself in a bad cap situation.

This is not fantasy hockey. Despite that I have a feeling in a month or so most of the plaintiffs are going to be shouting Shero's name from the rooftops... until the next time they decide they like a player and Shero doesn't trade for / sign him.

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02-10-2013, 12:50 PM
  #225
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
I think some fans have the impresion running a hockey team is like playing monopoly or something. This isn't a department store or real estate office. He can't just go get whatever he wants as long as he has the money.

"No Plan B for Parise and Suter" is maybe one of the weakest arguments against Shero there is. You know WHY there was no plan B in the FA market? Because the market SUCKED. Our choices were limited to grinders, soft underachieving head-cases (Semin), and old guys who are overpaid and non-committal (Doan).

One day the people who constantly find the glass half empty with Shero (despite the very good things he's done with a tight cap situation) will figure out that he doesn't make overpayments for guys whose potential is high but whose consistency is poor, and he doesn't make moves just because he can. BE THANKFUL for that! He's patient and waits for the right opportunity to get the right guy, so that he's not overpaying or putting himself in a bad cap situation.

This is not fantasy hockey. Despite that I have a feeling in a month or so most of the plaintiffs are going to be shouting Shero's name from the rooftops... until the next time they decide they like a player and Shero doesn't trade for / sign him.
Not to mention the best options were all gone before Parise made his decision. Can you imagine the outcry here by some of these same people had we signed Jiri Hudler and didn't pursue Parise? And doing both was pretty much not a possibility. I am thrilled about the week of interviewing players leading up to FA Frenzy in the new CBA.

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