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2013 Leafs Trades/Proposals: Version IV - Kings & Rangers are low..trade?

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Old
02-08-2013, 03:19 PM
  #501
ChuckWoods
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Originally Posted by topched View Post
LOL @ you acting like Chuck created the game of hockey (no offense CW, you're the man )

It helps to have a balance of L/R imo, but I wouldn't not trade Franson because we "have to keep the balance". We've got so many dmen right now, I'd be more concerned with addressing that next offseason that not maximizing value for Franson because he shoots the right way.
Haha no offence taken!

But that's pretty well said.

Yes, its nice to have that blend of right handed defenders and left handed defenders, but that shouldn't be the reason Franson isn't moved.

His value to the Leafs may be higher because of that reason, but the simple fact is that if there is a package offered up that Nonis is looking for, he'll send Cody Franson packing, right handed stick and all.

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02-08-2013, 03:32 PM
  #502
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at this point, the Leafs seem to have several quality players, but do they fit together as a cohesive unit? not IMO, at least not yet, putting together the right players is the trick. I think if Nonis can figure out the correct formula, and trade away what isn't going to work for pieces that will, it could shave a couple of years off this rebuild. Some players continually bandied about as trade fodder might just be the pieces the Leafs need to hang on to.

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02-08-2013, 03:38 PM
  #503
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at this point, the Leafs seem to have several quality players, but do they fit together as a cohesive unit? not IMO, at least not yet, putting together the right players is the trick. I think if Nonis can figure out the correct formula, and trade away what isn't going to work for pieces that will, it could shave a couple of years off this rebuild. Some players continually bandied about as trade fodder might just be the pieces the Leafs need to hang on to.
Hes already started that process by ditching some band aids in Connolly and Lombardi. Hes also brought up a large part of the Marlies together whom already had a bond (Naz, Frats, Kostka, Holzer, Frasor).

Komisarek, by all apearences, is on the way out.

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02-08-2013, 03:38 PM
  #504
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Don't really know who I'd want for Franson. I think Franson's been playing great lately, so I don't even really want him to be traded.

I'd only want to deal him as part of a package. So like Gardiner+Franson for O'Reilly.

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02-08-2013, 03:40 PM
  #505
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Rather trade Liles to be honest .. Franson brings more size and fits better under Carlyle's system and is solid at puck moving, plus with Gardiner and Rielly coming up there is plently of defense that can move the puck and back the powerplay

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02-08-2013, 03:52 PM
  #506
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Originally Posted by BertCorbeau View Post
Rather trade Liles to be honest .. Franson brings more size and fits better under Carlyle's system and is solid at puck moving, plus with Gardiner and Rielly coming up there is plently of defense that can move the puck and back the powerplay
I like both Franson and Liles, neither is used properly IMO, both should play the point on the #1 PP unit, and keeping both would make trading Captian Dion a possibility, admittedly I'm not a Dion fan, but he would be the only defenseman that could be packaged to bring back a possible #1 centre. Right now the Leafs can fill a hole on defense much easier than filling the hole at centre on the #1 line IMO.

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02-08-2013, 03:58 PM
  #507
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I think Carlyle's system, has Franson playing good two way hockey and I think that also applies to Holzer, first under Eakins and now Carlyle both employ a similar system, same applies to Fraser and I believe Kostka will also catch up and buy into that system too.

On the flip side Komisarek is not playing up to Carlyle's expectations but if he starts to listen and buys in, he may even earn the money he is being paid, Liles is a bit of a mystery he's a vetern and has played in a few systems however I think he is better suited to the Wilson system of run and gun, with less checking.

Phanuef is struggling a bit but I think he will be ok and so too is Gunnarsson, I think they can play in almost any system and will be great going forward and I'm not worrying about them.

Last but not least Gardiner, I don't think he can play Carlyle's system right now but he is such a dynamic player, the team has him learning the ropes under Eakins so that he can return at some point and become a dynamic 2 way player on the Leafs, much as Franson has.

So summing it up IMO Komisarek is the fly in the ointment and should be moved if possible and then Kostka because he is a UFA next year but is there any place for him going forward and hang on to Liles, at least for while.

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02-08-2013, 04:03 PM
  #508
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right now i have no idea what kind of tradea nonis has in mind....selling ? buying ? retooling ? i thought after 10 games we''ll have a better idea but right now with our record i don't think even nonis has an idea what to do anymore..he said he will evaluate after 10 games bur right now i see him waiting until 20 games...

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02-08-2013, 04:12 PM
  #509
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right now i have no idea what kind of tradea nonis has in mind....selling ? buying ? retooling ? i thought after 10 games we''ll have a better idea but right now with our record i don't think even nonis has an idea what to do anymore..he said he will evaluate after 10 games bur right now i see him waiting until 20 games...
We wont see any major selling, thats for sure. Nor do i see any moves involving major pieces coming.

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02-08-2013, 04:27 PM
  #510
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Phil Kessel is a nice piece to lock-up long-term, especially if Getzlaf and Perry do re-sign and avoid testing the market.

However, committing 7+ million to him on perhaps a max-contract is not a smart move unless you clear out the overpaid secondary players, namely, Grabovski, Liles, and MacArthur. I would have also included Lupul, but I guess the Leafs think he is a core piece.

The reason that you need to get rid of these secondary players is because it's agreed that Phil Kessel is a piece you build around, but not the piece you build around. The financial cap space can go to better players and needs to be saved and/or used on these kinds of players.

The Leafs need to be smarter. Sometimes I think it's just one big joke with how they piss away money.
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Old
02-09-2013, 09:23 AM
  #511
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Was moseying around in the philly zone and the highest thing I saw offered was Laughton, Voracek +1st for Kessel. The guy that wrote that seemed reluctant in addition

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02-09-2013, 09:29 AM
  #512
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Was moseying around in the philly zone and the highest thing I saw offered was Laughton, Voracek +1st for Kessel. The guy that wrote that seemed reluctant in addition
Any package for Kessel begins with Couturier.

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02-09-2013, 10:03 AM
  #513
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Any package for Kessel begins with Couturier.
Yeah you'd think so- us needing a centre and all and I really can't see them trading Schenn anytime soon after working so hard to unite the brothers

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02-09-2013, 10:21 AM
  #514
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I think Carlyle's system, has Franson playing good two way hockey and I think that also applies to Holzer, first under Eakins and now Carlyle both employ a similar system, same applies to Fraser and I believe Kostka will also catch up and buy into that system too.

On the flip side Komisarek is not playing up to Carlyle's expectations but if he starts to listen and buys in, he may even earn the money he is being paid, Liles is a bit of a mystery he's a vetern and has played in a few systems however I think he is better suited to the Wilson system of run and gun, with less checking.

Phanuef is struggling a bit but I think he will be ok and so too is Gunnarsson, I think they can play in almost any system and will be great going forward and I'm not worrying about them.

Last but not least Gardiner, I don't think he can play Carlyle's system right now but he is such a dynamic player, the team has him learning the ropes under Eakins so that he can return at some point and become a dynamic 2 way player on the Leafs, much as Franson has.

So summing it up IMO Komisarek is the fly in the ointment and should be moved if possible and then Kostka because he is a UFA next year but is there any place for him going forward and hang on to Liles, at least for while.
Phaneuf has been switched to the left side after playing the right his entire career which is why he has struggled. Offensively at least. Defensively he's actually been better.

Komisarek was playing a lot better under Carlyle vs. RC. Then he got injured.

Gardiner still has his post-concussion issues and can't really be assessed one way or the other.

Liles is doing just fine. He is what he is at this point. A very good offensive Dman who is undersized and just okay defensively. The one complaint Carlyle is that he wasn't putting Liles on the 1st PP unit. Liles was a major reason our PP was so good in the first half of last year.

People get impressed by Franson because he has a nice shot but he is absolutely terrible at defensive zone coverage and getting the puck out smartly. He is almost always 2+ feet off from where he should be when the other team is attacking in our zone. 2+ feet doesn't sound like a lot but at the NHL level it is huge. Franson is a PP specialist that doesn't PK and 5 on 5 see the most insulated minutes of any Dman. Carlyle has only been playing him 14 minutes a night with about 2.5 of that on the PP and at even strength against the other teams worst players. Meanwhile AHLers in Holzer and Kostka have both got opportunities to play big minutes.

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02-09-2013, 10:26 AM
  #515
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Just a couple points, Franson is RFA, so he has no real threat of leaving this summer. (according to capgeek)

Top 4 forwards for Rangers next year $26 million
Top 4 forwards for Penguins next year $26 million
Top 4 forwards for Leafs next year $20 million

I don't think they have any problems paying those guys that money. If the NHL recovers, and it is looking good, we could see the cap rise and even with the reduced percentage there shouldn't be a problem with the Leafs continuing to pay out that money/cap.

Yes, Kessel will be in the $7 million range. I can't say I'd have been happy with that money prior to his struggles this year. I am thrilled he struggled and in doing so seemed to work harder on other aspects of the game (IMO and others). If he continues to work hard in all zones (although I don't see him ever being good in traffic defensively) he'll earn $7 a season.

If there is any substance to trading him, I'd hope it would be for foundational young pieces. I think the Leafs would have to take a little risk in any trade, but they'd be trading him for a few reasons. I don't think the reason would be because of performance, but because of direction or as someone has stated a no brainer. A massive overpayment would be a no brainer, or a trade like Toews (yes I know not happening so this is just fantasy talk).

If a contender has drafted a stud, and it happens. Sometimes later picks turn out to be steals, they might look at Kessel to put them over the top, kind of like the Kings did in the Carter deal. Kessel, IMO, has more value than Carter, although Carter was locked up forever.

Who the contenders, and which contender has a need for speed and scoring, and a stud / potential stud prospect, and reasonable cap space in 2014+?

Perhaps the most pertinent question should be, would Nonis give up a chance at the playoffs for a team that hasn't made them in close to a decade?

Unless Kessel's camp has made it clear he wants out of the fishbowl I can see a max length, at $7 per.

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Old
02-09-2013, 10:55 AM
  #516
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I completely agree about Franson.

He's a big strong guy, who can move the puck, has a great shot from the point and is still young enough to move forward with this core.

The only concern are his intentions after this season as a UFA.

There is a real risk that we lose him for nothing if he doesn't see constistant time within this line up.

If he does see minutes and produces is where the real questions begin;

- Do you keep him and try to give him Top 4 minutes with the likes of Dion, Gardiner, Reilly already being locks for these spots in the future? What happens to Gunnarsson and JM Liles? What about Komisarek, Fraser and Holzer?

or

- Do you move him for a max return, gather more assets for the future and continue to platoon Carl Gunnarsson and JM Liles who are more than adequate to fill that spot? The bottom pairing role can be filled with the likes of Komisarek, Holzer, Fraser and the futures of Blacker, Finn and Percy.

It's all about keeping the assets coming full circle to keep this team competitive for years to come.
Franson is an RFA next year. To your point regarding Perry, his dad works for the OPP here in Durham, and I have freinds in the OPP and Durham Regional Police. Apparently his dad said, Corey would like to play in Toronto, and he spends time in London as well. Its not a given Corey would come to Toronto, but there seems to be some interest there.

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02-09-2013, 11:02 AM
  #517
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Franson is an RFA next year. To your point regarding Perry, his dad works for the OPP here in Durham, and I have freinds in the OPP and Durham Regional Police. Apparently his dad said, Corey would like to play in Toronto, and he spends time in London as well. Its not a given Corey would come to Toronto, but there seems to be some interest there.
i thought Perry is/was a huge Habs fan and hates the Leafs...

Would be sweet to have him here though! If true Nonis should drive a brinks truck to his house!!!

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02-09-2013, 11:11 AM
  #518
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Originally Posted by Rockinz;59343903[B
]i thought Perry is/was a huge Habs fan and hates the Leafs...[/B]Would be sweet to have him here though! If true Nonis should drive a brinks truck to his house!!!
I have no clue if that is true or not, I only know what I was told. Corey has done great work for Brian Burke`s `you can play`program, and he does community work in London from my understadning.

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02-09-2013, 11:11 AM
  #519
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Just a couple points, Franson is RFA, so he has no real threat of leaving this summer. (according to capgeek)

Top 4 forwards for Rangers next year $26 million
Top 4 forwards for Penguins next year $26 million
Top 4 forwards for Leafs next year $20 million

I don't think they have any problems paying those guys that money. If the NHL recovers, and it is looking good, we could see the cap rise and even with the reduced percentage there shouldn't be a problem with the Leafs continuing to pay out that money/cap.

Yes, Kessel will be in the $7 million range. I can't say I'd have been happy with that money prior to his struggles this year. I am thrilled he struggled and in doing so seemed to work harder on other aspects of the game (IMO and others). If he continues to work hard in all zones (although I don't see him ever being good in traffic defensively) he'll earn $7 a season.

If there is any substance to trading him, I'd hope it would be for foundational young pieces. I think the Leafs would have to take a little risk in any trade, but they'd be trading him for a few reasons. I don't think the reason would be because of performance, but because of direction or as someone has stated a no brainer. A massive overpayment would be a no brainer, or a trade like Toews (yes I know not happening so this is just fantasy talk).

If a contender has drafted a stud, and it happens. Sometimes later picks turn out to be steals, they might look at Kessel to put them over the top, kind of like the Kings did in the Carter deal. Kessel, IMO, has more value than Carter, although Carter was locked up forever.

Who the contenders, and which contender has a need for speed and scoring, and a stud / potential stud prospect, and reasonable cap space in 2014+?

Perhaps the most pertinent question should be, would Nonis give up a chance at the playoffs for a team that hasn't made them in close to a decade?

Unless Kessel's camp has made it clear he wants out of the fishbowl I can see a max length, at $7 per.
I want Kessel to resign to a max term deal at $6.5 per. That's a $52 million dollar deal over 8 years with potential of anther 3/4 year contract after that.

i hope that's in the ballpark...

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02-09-2013, 11:20 AM
  #520
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I want Kessel to resign to a max term deal at $6.5 per. That's a $52 million dollar deal over 8 years with potential of anther 3/4 year contract after that.

i hope that's in the ballpark...
I keep thinking that's sort of what he'll sign for

Got a feeling

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02-09-2013, 11:23 AM
  #521
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I keep thinking that's sort of what he'll sign for

Got a feeling
I hope so..but he can easily get a lot more in the UFA.

I think Nonis starts somewhere at 6.5M, his agent @ 7.5-8M like Parise got, they come half way at 7x8.

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Old
02-09-2013, 11:24 AM
  #522
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I want Kessel to resign to a max term deal at $6.5 per. That's a $52 million dollar deal over 8 years with potential of anther 3/4 year contract after that.

i hope that's in the ballpark...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coatsy79 View Post
I keep thinking that's sort of what he'll sign for

Got a feeling
If he's lights out for the rest of the season, I can see it hitting 7, since they don't have the ability to circumvent the cap now, we might see higher averages then when you could throw 2-4 years of non playing money on the end.

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02-09-2013, 11:38 AM
  #523
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I hope so..but he can easily get a lot more in the UFA.

I think Nonis starts somewhere at 6.5M, his agent @ 7.5-8M like Parise got, they come half way at 7x8.
i dont think Parise is a valid comparison because A) he went to another team B) totally different CBA and C) Parise was a captain and leader.

I think P.Kane is a better comparison to Kessel. Kane got $6.3 over 5 years.

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02-09-2013, 11:43 AM
  #524
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Ive also heard the Perry was NOT a Leafs fan growing up. Can't say whether this is correct or not but my Dad's friend is his neighbour and I THINK that is where I heard it from but I wouldn't quote me on this.

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02-09-2013, 11:46 AM
  #525
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Ive also heard the Perry was NOT a Leafs fan growing up. Can't say whether this is correct or not but my Dad's friend is his neighbour and I THINK that is where I heard it from but I wouldn't quote me on this.
Perry was a Habs fan.

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