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Evgeny Kuznetsov to Edmonton

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Old
02-08-2013, 06:39 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by BarDownBobo View Post
Please, give me a list of teams that Yakupov would not have made this season.
The teams that prefer to develop players in the AHL instead of the "tossing them into the deep end full of sharks and hoping they can swim fast" style. You know - the Tambellini way. Of course, you have little to worry as Tambellini will just say "oh well, we'll get em next time - hey Nate, your turn".

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02-08-2013, 06:53 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by 12345 View Post
The teams that prefer to develop players in the AHL instead of the "tossing them into the deep end full of sharks and hoping they can swim fast" style. You know - the Tambellini way. Of course, you have little to worry as Tambellini will just say "oh well, we'll get em next time - hey Nate, your turn".
There is not a team that would not be playing him this season.

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02-08-2013, 06:59 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by 12345 View Post
The teams that prefer to develop players in the AHL instead of the "tossing them into the deep end full of sharks and hoping they can swim fast" style. You know - the Tambellini way. Of course, you have little to worry as Tambellini will just say "oh well, we'll get em next time - hey Nate, your turn".
I don't know - guys like Yakupov should be playing in the NHL. I think he would have made Detroit's squad out of camp this year, and DET is a team that loves to over-marinate their prospects. Most all of the #1 overall players are just on that level, and there is little that seasoning in the AHL or juniors or staying overseas is going to do, except let them physically mature a bit more. I might be wrong, and throwing those guys in the deep end in their first year might be wrong, but it has become a standard, kinda like rookie QBs in the NFL are getting to start right away, whereas most would never sniff the field in their first-year 10 years ago. Certainly, you have examples like Stamkos, who struggled hugely in his first year, but ultimately it probably helped his development over staying in Sarnia. On the other hand, I am not sure it has been as beneficial to Hall - Seguin seems to have outshone him so far, but was admittedly placed in a much better (i.e. less pressure) situation than Hall. I am interested to see how Huberdeau develops, I was surprised that the Panthers kept him in juniors last year, although he was REALLY light.

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02-08-2013, 07:11 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Needles View Post
Washington needs a shake up, Edmonton is still rebuilding. Kuznetsov is already a great player, but he's going to stay in Russia until 2014/2015 season. However, Kuznetsov & Yakupov could form a dangerous scoring threat for years to come. Edmonton has several good pieces behind their Big 5 that could help the Caps right now + picks and prospects. Is there a trade here?

Untouchables: RNH, Eberle, Hall, Yakupov, J.Schultz

Discuss.
If you want, youll have to pay. There are quotes from many sources (TSN + Sportsnet) saying he is the best forward in the world not playing in the NHL. So either your giving up a 1st and maybe more picks plus a prospect or the Caps keep and develop him with another Russian whos name rhymes with Smesmetchkin.

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02-08-2013, 07:49 PM
  #180
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Oiler fan saying we should trade for radulov too!

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02-08-2013, 07:52 PM
  #181
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I'd give up Whitney and 2-2nd rounders

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02-08-2013, 07:54 PM
  #182
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Soo much derp in this thread. Did I seriously read that Kuznetsov wouldn't even land the caps Klefbom? I figured Canada would remember the kid who lit them up in the world junior tourney was it two years? Lets compare yakupov and kuznetsovs stats in that tourney or the khl.


The problem is none of you have put yourself in Kuznetsov shoes. The Olympics mean a lot to him,along with a smoking wife and more money than he could have in the NHL.

He's an elite prospect that is compared to Malkin and Semin. He says he's coming after the Olympics and I see no reason he would lie while wearing multiple caps hats in his interviews.

He was a first rounder that slipped because of this time he's still in the khl. Now he's developed more and once he crosses the pond you think the value is going down? Think again.


It's clear some oil fans have wanted Green and Kuznetsov since the summer. Yet don't want to give up anything to get an actual deal done.

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02-08-2013, 07:54 PM
  #183
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Hall for Kuznetov.

Hall brings dynamic speed to a slow looking Washington top-six. Kuznetov gives us two lethal combos in RNH - Ebs, Kuz - Yaks

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02-08-2013, 08:03 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Gobo View Post
Hall for Kuznetov.

Hall brings dynamic speed to a slow looking Washington top-six. Kuznetov gives us two lethal combos in RNH - Ebs, Kuz - Yaks
Tempting but I still would not do it. The caps would be banking on his cheap cap hit which Hall who I believe would have similar production to Kuznetsov does not have anymore.

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02-08-2013, 08:23 PM
  #185
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It really isn't. The Oilers don't need top line players, nor do most fans keep asking for them. Most Oilers fans are trying to gauge the value of what gritty middle 6ers we could get. And I'm sorry, but the idea that there's some massive gap between the big 5 and everyone else is just ridiculous. Guys like Gagner, Hemsky, Smid, Petry, etc have lots of value. It's just people on HF who have a hate boner that think they don't
I agree with most of what you are saying, a top 6 gritty player is exactly what you need and could be had without disrupting your young core. All I'm saying is I see threads for Subban and Kuznetsov when there are just no combination of pieces that could be used to acquire them outside of the big 5.

Yes, there is a huge drop off after those guys, not saying that guys like Gagner, Hemsky, Smid, and Klefbom are worthless (far from) but they are a significant downgrade from the previously mentioned 5. Eberle/Hall/Yakupov/Schultz/RNH can get most players in this league and anyone playing outside of it, you are much more limited when you take this guys off the table when talking trades.

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02-08-2013, 08:48 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by BeersHockey View Post
On the other hand, I am not sure it has been as beneficial to Hall - Seguin seems to have outshone him so far, but was admittedly placed in a much better (i.e. less pressure) situation than Hall. I am interested to see how Huberdeau develops, I was surprised that the Panthers kept him in juniors last year, although he was REALLY light.
I'm not sure how Seguin has outshone Hall in terms of what each one personally brings to their team. Hall had the better numbers in his rookie campaign due to a greater role on a poor team. But even the numbers since then are more or less equal. Since their rookie campaigns...

Hall GP 71 G 29 A 34 pts 63 +/- 0

Seguin GP 90 G 31 A 42 pts 73 +/- +41

You can argue Seguin is the more valuable player because he is a center, but that is flawed because he has primarily been used on the wing. He has taken 114 draws in those 90 games. In fact, Hall has taken 67 draws, with nearly the same success rate. You could point to the huge gap in plus/minus, but Hall's team has been -30, Seguin's +73 over that time. Seguin has a ring, but if the Leaf's don't gift wrap 2nd overall to a league powerhouse then we're probably not even having this conversation. Basically, I don't think Seguin has outshone Hall, nor do I think Hall has suffered from having an important role from day 1. His only other option would be go back to junior where he was already a back to back memorial cup MVP. Nuffield said.

As for the OP, what a mess. Like it isn't hard enough being a Caps fan right now, we try and poach their top prospect. I mean, I wouldn't part with any of the big 5 either, but there is a significant drop after that for players that would interest the Caps. Bottom line, we didn't need 8 pages of rage, but we got it.

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02-08-2013, 09:16 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Mr Tarkanian View Post
Another uniformed poster trying to tell us we wont be able to keep all are guys without having a clue what he's talking about.
Another uniformed poster who doesn't have a clue about Kuznetsov or how good he is.

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02-08-2013, 09:53 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by WeridAl View Post
No, and Kuznetsov wouldn't get you close to getting Klefbom.
You wouldn't trade Klefbom for Kuz? Please tell me you're joking.. Please?

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02-08-2013, 10:35 PM
  #189
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Just close this already.

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02-08-2013, 11:33 PM
  #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needles View Post
Washington needs a shake up, Edmonton is still rebuilding. Kuznetsov is already a great player, but he's going to stay in Russia until 2014/2015 season. However, Kuznetsov & Yakupov could form a dangerous scoring threat for years to come. Edmonton has several good pieces behind their Big 5 that could help the Caps right now + picks and prospects. Is there a trade here?

Untouchables: RNH, Eberle, Hall, Yakupov, J.Schultz

Discuss.
This is like a video game fantasy hockey for something like this. Kuznetsov is simply more valuable to the capitals than any team would be willing to pay and the untouchables you list is pretty much the end of logical discussion.

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02-08-2013, 11:34 PM
  #191
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Kuznetsov is labeled untouchable too. If you're going to make a hockey trade, make it a fair one.

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02-09-2013, 02:21 AM
  #192
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Ok, let me try and counter....

Eberle for.....

Untouchables : OV, Backstrom, Green, Laich, Ribeiro, Brouwer, Carlson, Alzner, Orlov, Poti, Hamrlik, Neuvirth, Holtby, Hendricks, Crabb, Perreault, Wolski, Hendricks, Erskine, Schultz, Perreault, Ward, Chimera, Fehr, Kuznetsov, Johansson, Forsberg, Wilson, Kundratek, and finally Barber

Ok...discuss

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02-09-2013, 07:39 AM
  #193
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Originally Posted by Needles View Post
Washington needs a shake up, Edmonton is still rebuilding. Kuznetsov is already a great player, but he's going to stay in Russia until 2014/2015 season. However, Kuznetsov & Yakupov could form a dangerous scoring threat for years to come. Edmonton has several good pieces behind their Big 5 that could help the Caps right now + picks and prospects. Is there a trade here?

Untouchables: RNH, Eberle, Hall, Yakupov, J.Schultz

Discuss.
I love trade proposals that are one sided. I'll give you my best prospect for garbage. I'm assuming outside the overated "5" would be Sam Gagner. Gagner is young and talented but you need to add alot. Washington doesnt exactly know what they have in Kuznetsov but it appears special. The real question I have is:

How is trading Kuznetsov shaking up the team?
Adding a player or two like Gagner doesnt immensly improve your team or shake it up. Picks and prospects helps only for the future. Kuznetsov has a high ceiling, was a high 1st round pick and is young.
Washington wants to trade its vets not the future.

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02-09-2013, 09:57 AM
  #194
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Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
I'm not sure how Seguin has outshone Hall in terms of what each one personally brings to their team. Hall had the better numbers in his rookie campaign due to a greater role on a poor team. But even the numbers since then are more or less equal. Since their rookie campaigns...

Hall GP 71 G 29 A 34 pts 63 +/- 0

Seguin GP 90 G 31 A 42 pts 73 +/- +41

You can argue Seguin is the more valuable player because he is a center, but that is flawed because he has primarily been used on the wing. He has taken 114 draws in those 90 games. In fact, Hall has taken 67 draws, with nearly the same success rate. You could point to the huge gap in plus/minus, but Hall's team has been -30, Seguin's +73 over that time. Seguin has a ring, but if the Leaf's don't gift wrap 2nd overall to a league powerhouse then we're probably not even having this conversation. Basically, I don't think Seguin has outshone Hall, nor do I think Hall has suffered from having an important role from day 1. His only other option would be go back to junior where he was already a back to back memorial cup MVP. Nuffield said.

As for the OP, what a mess. Like it isn't hard enough being a Caps fan right now, we try and poach their top prospect. I mean, I wouldn't part with any of the big 5 either, but there is a significant drop after that for players that would interest the Caps. Bottom line, we didn't need 8 pages of rage, but we got it.
I wouldn't have argued any of those things. Don't care about center vs. winger - I wasn't commenting on value, only on development. What I would have pointed out was that in their rookie years, Hall played about 6 mins more a game than Seguin, including time on the pp. In their second year, Hall played nearly 2 mins more a game, played on the top pp unit and first line duties, while Seguin was playing largely on the 3rd line. I hate when HF's argue Cups as why one player is better than another - Cups are won by teams, not players. Also, +/- is going to be totally skewed between these guys, their teams are just in compete opposite positions.

Why should the Oil have thought to put Hall back down in juniors for one more year? Because he was tiny (relatively speaking) for the style of game he plays - which is balls-out. He could have used another year to get up to fighting weight. You are right, however, that if it isn't the Bruins that picked up Seguin, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion. Seguin was even smaller than Hall in their rookie campaign (only 175lbs) and would have (should have) almost assuredly been sent back to juniors.

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02-09-2013, 10:35 AM
  #195
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Originally Posted by McArthur View Post
I'd give up Whitney and 2-2nd rounders
And I'm sure the Caps would give up Jeff Schultz and 2-2nd rounders for Yakupov, but it doesn't mean it'll happen.

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02-09-2013, 06:48 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by BROOKLYnKNIGHTS View Post
I love trade proposals that are one sided. I'll give you my best prospect for garbage. I'm assuming outside the overated "5" would be Sam Gagner. Gagner is young and talented but you need to add alot. Washington doesnt exactly know what they have in Kuznetsov but it appears special. The real question I have is:

How is trading Kuznetsov shaking up the team?
Adding a player or two like Gagner doesnt immensly improve your team or shake it up. Picks and prospects helps only for the future. Kuznetsov has a high ceiling, was a high 1st round pick and is young.
Washington wants to trade its vets not the future.
Kuznetsov was picked in the 20s, so he wasn't a high first rounder. Gagner on the other hand was, being picked 6th overall. Where a player was drafted is relevant for the summer after their draft, that's about it.

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02-09-2013, 08:41 PM
  #197
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Penguins are interested in Ovechkin. Everyone is on the block except for Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Neal, Kunitz, Sutter, Fleury, and all of our good prospects.

Discuss.

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02-09-2013, 08:42 PM
  #198
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You can't get a great prospect for your trash

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02-09-2013, 08:42 PM
  #199
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Penguins are interested in Ovechkin. Everyone is on the block except for Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Neal, Kunitz, Sutter, Fleury, and all of our good prospects.

Discuss.

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02-09-2013, 08:47 PM
  #200
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Penguins are interested in Ovechkin. Everyone is on the block except for Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Neal, Kunitz, Sutter, Fleury, and all of our good prospects.

Discuss.
Seems fair.

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