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Old
02-08-2013, 05:16 PM
  #426
sjaustin77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dredeye View Post
Iginla stats

6 years ago 70gp 39g 55a 94pts
7 years ago 82gp 35g 32a 67pts

last year 82gp 32g 35a 67pts
2 years ago 82gp 43g 43a 84pts

Yeah he's useless. I wish more people realize that his production has remained pretty steady throughout his career. He's a notorious slow starter so I hope your not looking at his production so far this year as some kind of indicator. Although, he still has 6pts in 8 games on a slow start. Never mind the fact that he hasn't missed one game in the last 5 years. For the type of game he plays that's very impressive. The only real difference is I believe he fights less now then he use to which is smart. I'd love love love to have him.
Who has said he is useless?

Production 6,5 & 4 years ago:

'06-'07 16:26
'07-'08 17:57
'08-'09 19:55

Last 3 plus this year:

'09-'10 24:29
'10-'11 19:58
'11-'12 25:13
'12-'13 28:33

He is very clearly not the same player or had steady production, and the trend is down. It is impressive to play all 82 games no matter what type of game he plays but he also has been way overrated physically. His only years of the last 6 with over 100 hits were actually the last 2 years with last year's 124 being a career high. He has fought the same in the last 3 years as previous 3 but only 5 in the last 2 which is down from early career.

There are only 12 games after the trade deadline and we likely can't afford him next year even at a much reduced salary unless we just let both Horton & Ference go. He is still a very good player who I would love to have but I wouldn't give up a lot for what is likely to be a 12 game + playoff rental. He also doesn't play any PK. I definitely wouldn't give up any of our top 6, or Kelly or Peverley for a rental. Some combo of a prospect, pick and a 4th liner sure, and if we don't go far in the playoffs that will look like a bad trade too.

Calgary wouldn't get any more than that from me. They aren't getting a cornerstone young player unless the likely low pick turns out great. He can walk after the season or re-sign and keep losing in Calgary.

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02-08-2013, 05:27 PM
  #427
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Originally Posted by Neely08 View Post
Not sure my wife would follow me all over Europe, w/ kids, so I could fulfill my dreams of making the show at age 34. Then again, she did give me the ok to go off and do something that wasn't part of the deal when we got married, so. I'm a very lucky guy, and I make sure she knows I know that. I have friends who went through divorces over far less.

We're most likely never going to know. Focus on the fact right now you're not obsessing over game 7 against the Flyers in 2010. Because w/o TT, we most likely still would be.
Agreed.

I'm totally in the camp that appreciates what TT did while he was here, but was very unhappy about the way things ended.

I'm not losing any sleep over it, and TT probably isn't either

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02-08-2013, 05:28 PM
  #428
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Originally Posted by sjaustin77 View Post
Who has said he is useless?

Production 6,5 & 4 years ago:

'06-'07 16:26
'07-'08 17:57
'08-'09 19:55

Last 3 plus this year:

'09-'10 24:29
'10-'11 19:58
'11-'12 25:13
'12-'13 28:33

He is very clearly not the same player or had steady production, and the trend is down. It is impressive to play all 82 games no matter what type of game he plays but he also has been way overrated physically. His only years of the last 6 with over 100 hits were actually the last 2 years with last year's 124 being a career high. He has fought the same in the last 3 years as previous 3 but only 5 in the last 2 which is down from early career.

There are only 12 games after the trade deadline and we likely can't afford him next year even at a much reduced salary unless we just let both Horton & Ference go. He is still a very good player who I would love to have but I wouldn't give up a lot for what is likely to be a 12 game + playoff rental. He also doesn't play any PK. I definitely wouldn't give up any of our top 6, or Kelly or Peverley for a rental. Some combo of a prospect, pick and a 4th liner sure, and if we don't go far in the playoffs that will look like a bad trade too.

Calgary wouldn't get any more than that from me. They aren't getting a cornerstone young player unless the likely low pick turns out great. He can walk after the season or re-sign and keep losing in Calgary.
I'm not sure what numbers your listing. Are those suppose to be his average time on ice numbers? Because if that is the case your numbers are brutally wrong but I'm not sure that's what your trying to show. Anyway, I don't expect the Bruins to trade a top 6 player to get him as that would make no sense at all. It would be picks and prospects IMO and nothing more.

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02-08-2013, 05:31 PM
  #429
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Flame away, but I'd settle for Ryder at this point.

And, no one rode him more than me going into the 2011 season. They never re-invested his cap hit on improving the team. Which I found disappointing. It isn't as if these guys swept every series, either. You'd think the idea would be to make it easier on yourself after already winning it once. The most we can hope for is getting back to where we were when we did win it. I'd love Iggy, always have, but it's more realistic to think they'll target a gritty 20 to 25 goal man. Don't underestimate the loss of Rex either. Closest we have to a "crafty old vet" is Bergeron and Chara.

So, is AO unhappy in Caps land yet? Little bit of Thorntonitus goin on there in terms of leadership.

Kidding...KIDDING! I can dream, too.

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02-08-2013, 05:36 PM
  #430
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Originally Posted by Bruwinz37 View Post
That trade would be highway robbery for us.

Overvaluing draft picks, the hfboards way of life.
In the sense of what picks are worth - yes, big time. Long term - No, and I say that knowing full well those picks could all turn out to be nothing. That is a true go for it this year move. Goligoski is the only one signed and at $4.6M. Say goodbye to at least Horton next year to keep Goligoski. He is good but not that good to lose multiple key players after this year plus those picks. Jagr & Ryder would be pure rentals.

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02-08-2013, 05:42 PM
  #431
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Originally Posted by GloryDaze4877 View Post
Agreed.

I'm totally in the camp that appreciates what TT did while he was here, but was very unhappy about the way things ended.

I'm not losing any sleep over it, and TT probably isn't either
Same here, who could be pleased w/ it? I wanted Tuukka to take over, w/ the caveat of a TT parachute when he had to bail out. Didn't happen. In a perfect world he retires a Bruin. It's far from a perfect world.

But, I still can't understand all the anger and hatred towards the guy. Some people act as though he put an arrow through their pet unicorn. Or, bent their high school sweetheart over the Stanley Cup. You'd never know this guy played his heart out, and was a major part of ending a lot of misery in Bruins land. Again, it's not a perfect world.

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02-08-2013, 05:46 PM
  #432
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Originally Posted by dredeye View Post
I'm not sure what numbers your listing. Are those suppose to be his average time on ice numbers? Because if that is the case your numbers are brutally wrong but I'm not sure that's what your trying to show. Anyway, I don't expect the Bruins to trade a top 6 player to get him as that would make no sense at all. It would be picks and prospects IMO and nothing more.
Production - really should be called efficiency, or production rate but is just listed as production. It is TOI to score a point. TOI divided by Pts gives you the number. Lower numbers are better so he was much better 6,5 & 4 years ago than the last 3 years.

I agree with nothing more than a pick and a prospect or substitute a 4th line player (or Bourque ) for one of those.

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02-08-2013, 05:54 PM
  #433
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Originally Posted by sjaustin77 View Post
Production - really should be called efficiency, or production rate but is just listed as production. It is TOI to score a point. TOI divided by Pts gives you the number. Lower numbers are better so he was much better 6,5 & 4 years ago than the last 3 years.

I agree with nothing more than a pick and a prospect or substitute a 4th line player (or Bourque ) for one of those.
good lord! talk about shooting fish in a barrel. Of course a players numbers at 36 won't look as good as production numbers when he was younger. Now do something useful and compare how his production is the last 2 years or so with Recchi's numbers the last season or so he was with us. Because that's really the point with Iginla isn't it?

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02-08-2013, 06:03 PM
  #434
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Originally Posted by nmbr_24 View Post
I beg to differ, I think nobody battled as hard as Terry O'Reilly to achieve greatness as a Bruin.

Tim Thomas was probably the better player but O'Reilly was the guy who worked himself from being a goon to being a top 10 scorer and heart and soul of the Bruins.

Let's not forget that.

Thomas was great, I am not saying that in any kind of attempt to downplay him, I will never forget what Thomas did for the Bruins.
We're talking about Tim Thomas on this thread! .....I'll let you know when there's a Terry O'reilly thread open.

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02-08-2013, 06:16 PM
  #435
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Originally Posted by BruinSG17 View Post
To Boston:
Jaromir Jagr
Michael Ryder
Alex Goligoski

To Dallas:
2013 1st
2013 2nd
2014 1st
Conditional pick from NYI

Lucic Bergeron Jagr
Seguin Krejci Horton
Peverley Kelly Ryder
Marchand Campbell Thornton
Paille

Chara Goligoski
Hamilton Seidenberg
Ference Boychuk
McQuaid
I'm glad you're not the Bruins GM,cause we'd be one of the oldest and slowest teams in the NHL overnight.

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02-08-2013, 06:20 PM
  #436
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruwinz37 View Post
That trade would be highway robbery for us.

Overvaluing draft picks, the hfboards way of life.
Ok so two firsts, two seconds (if Thomas plays a game) for Jagr who is turning 41 soon who really doesn't bump anyone in our current top 6. Is he really a fit for a third line checking role with Kelly and Peverley? The only way he would really benefit us is on the PP, even then he pretty much doesn't hold much value due to his age.

Ryder is a good player still but he is also getting up there in age, and Goligowski is a good d-man as well. Two firsts and two seconds is over payment.

This isn't the MLB, we have a salary cap so that deal makes no sense anyway from the start.

Giving up 4 picks for an aging Ryder, Jagr and Goligowski who we are perfectly fine without is asinine.

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02-08-2013, 06:24 PM
  #437
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Originally Posted by bobbyorr04 View Post
I'm glad you're not the Bruins GM,cause we'd be one of the oldest and slowest teams in the NHL overnight.
Another point is that Goligowski plays the left side, he sure as hell isn't bumping Chara or Seids of the top 2 pairings and he is too good/expensive for a third pairing role.

Don't know if he can play right, but you already have Hamilton as your top pairing righty for the future so I don't see anywhere where he would fit in.

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02-08-2013, 06:27 PM
  #438
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Originally Posted by GloryDaze4877 View Post
Yeah, maybe I'm being pessimistic, but I'm not sure the reasons are legit, and speaking as a guy who has been married for 20+ years, if things needed "ironing out", he's probably the one that "wrinkled" them to begin with.
No you have a right to feel however you want. I can see where you are coming from. Also agree 100% with your last sentence.

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02-08-2013, 07:02 PM
  #439
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Originally Posted by Pie O My View Post
good lord! talk about shooting fish in a barrel. Of course a players numbers at 36 won't look as good as production numbers when he was younger. Now do something useful and compare how his production is the last 2 years or so with Recchi's numbers the last season or so he was with us. Because that's really the point with Iginla isn't it?
I shouldn't even give you the time with that type of response to me, but what does this have to do with what I was talking about? Someone said his production has stayed about the same. It clearly has not. And we are talking about trade value. We got Recchi and a 2nd for Lashoff & Karsums. And while salary doesn't matter much this year Recchi only made $1.5M so the Bruins could afford to sign him the next year without losing good roster players.

I know what Recchi's production was and it wasn't that far off Iginla's. I provided information that backed up my point. How about you do something useful and look it up yourself? No wait, I'll do it. The last 3 years plus year of the trade to Boston it was always between 23:17 & 24:22, except for his 19 games with Pittsburgh where it was 39:07 the year before coming to Boston. Recchi also had more SHTOI and less PP time than Iginla further equalizing the production.

With Boston Recchi was at 18:25, 32:08 & 27:11 in the cup season. Playoffs it was 31:04, 25:20, 28:51. Iginla's last 3 playoffs - 35:48, 17:40, 31:24.

Iginla is better and plays more minutes so he is more valuable but hasn't been much more productive. In the playoffs he has 2 worse years than Recchi's and 1 better year and hasn't made it out of the 1st round in any of them. He is a 12 game rental depending on time of trade, that isn't close to his prime, only slightly improves the B's chances this year, and could hurt them going forward. He isn't worth a cornerstone player or losing pieces off our roster.

Next time you want information that is different from what I am talking about you can look it up yourself. If you think he is worth more than back up your point if you have one, and you can leave out all the snark and telling me what to do. Thanks.

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02-08-2013, 07:24 PM
  #440
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Your turn, Pie.

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02-08-2013, 07:36 PM
  #441
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Originally Posted by Bruwinz37 View Post
That trade would be highway robbery for us.

Overvaluing draft picks, the hfboards way of life.
Regardless of the value I agree with the other poster. I think it is a brutal trade.

The Bruins are a team playing great hockey, built around a real plan, and they might need a tweak or two to get them ready for the postseason, this deal is not a tweak, it is complete rebuild and change the culture of the clubhouse

Take Brad Marchand who scored 28 last year and leads the team in scoring this year, and toss him on the 4th line? Bench Paille

I don't see Chiarelli making such a move. I see him targetting a top 6 type forward to play on the 3rd line. Gives them great depth, and insurance in case of injuries.

And I see them bringing in a depth defenseman, unless they decided to get really bold and upgrade upon Boychuck.Ference

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02-08-2013, 07:39 PM
  #442
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Jagr has been good this year, but I prefer Morrow. Despite the fact that he is more injury-prone, he fits the B's "mold" (gritty, accountable, hard to play against) and is a great leader by all accounts.
.
i'd take ryder over both of them. he's still very productive, and has chemistry with pevs/kelly already. jagr is a tremendous talent but an odd bird and pretty injury prone at this point. morrow is a shell of himself. maybe he'd be re-born on a new team, but i think he's got a lot of hard miles on that body from the style he's played.

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02-08-2013, 07:46 PM
  #443
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i'd take ryder over both of them. he's still very productive, and has chemistry with pevs/kelly already. jagr is a tremendous talent but an odd bird and pretty injury prone at this point. morrow is a shell of himself. maybe he'd be re-born on a new team, but i think he's got a lot of hard miles on that body from the style he's played.
Ryder or bust for me as well.

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02-08-2013, 08:11 PM
  #444
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Dallas is on vs Anaheim on NHL network if everyone wants to get a look at them. Benn is who I really want . Would cost a roster player and a number of picks/prospects.

I agree with Ryder. He was good here unlike most former players that people want to pick up. There might be better players, but given the probable cost and knowing the system he is the safest bet to fit right in with Kelly & Peverley.

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02-08-2013, 10:24 PM
  #445
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I agree with Ryder. He was good here unlike most former players that people want to pick up. There might be better players, but given the probable cost and knowing the system he is the safest bet to fit right in with Kelly & Peverley.
only problem i see with ryder is dallas could make the playoffs - especially with lehtonen in net. he might be the most underrated goalie in the nhl.

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02-08-2013, 10:25 PM
  #446
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QUOTE=sjaustin77

I agree with Ryder. He was good here unlike most former players that people want to pick up. There might be better players, but given the probable cost and knowing the system he is the safest bet to fit right in with Kelly & Peverley.


Ryder has a long and successful history with Coach Julien as well. If they are determined to upgrade the third line he could get it done.

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02-08-2013, 11:25 PM
  #447
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I watched Ryder vplay vs Oilers other nite and he was playing beyond lazy and not covering no one,And i was always a Ryder supporter even liked him as a hab.I say no thanks.Bruins have enough money available now to do better then that.I like see Iginla on top line then Horton with Kelly and Peverley. Were talking about going for the cup here,some prospects for a shot at that im down with,Might not have this type team or shot again for while.GO FOR IT!

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02-08-2013, 11:48 PM
  #448
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely08 View Post
Same here, who could be pleased w/ it? I wanted Tuukka to take over, w/ the caveat of a TT parachute when he had to bail out. Didn't happen. In a perfect world he retires a Bruin. It's far from a perfect world.

But, I still can't understand all the anger and hatred towards the guy. Some people act as though he put an arrow through their pet unicorn. Or, bent their high school sweetheart over the Stanley Cup. You'd never know this guy played his heart out, and was a major part of ending a lot of misery in Bruins land. Again, it's not a perfect world.
People just keep bringing it up.. What is there too understand!! Were fans of a "TEAM" That "TEAM" is the Boston Bruins.. One of the Core Members of that team decided to act on his own.. And well that's where he is now, on his own!

I don't get it.. Why can't the people, specially fans of his and the Boston Bruins be upset about TT, And how things unfolded? They are fans of his and obviously felt let down by him in one way or another. People have the right to feel that way. And I am sure we have heard this before.. "Everyone is unique/different" and has different ways of rooting for ones team.. And I thank God for that lol..

By the way I am thinking of all you guys n gals that live North of me. I pray everyone and family is okay and staying warm.. All good here lots and lots of snow!! I live in a Co Op and this building could probably take a direct hit by a missile, God forbid and still be standing.


Last edited by BklyNBruiN: 02-09-2013 at 12:11 AM.
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02-09-2013, 12:53 AM
  #449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BklyNBruiN View Post
People just keep bringing it up.. What is there too understand!! Were fans of a "TEAM" That "TEAM" is the Boston Bruins.. One of the Core Members of that team decided to act on his own.. And well that's where he is now, on his own!

I don't get it.. Why can't the people, specially fans of his and the Boston Bruins be upset about TT, And how things unfolded? They are fans of his and obviously felt let down by him in one way or another. People have the right to feel that way. And I am sure we have heard this before.. "Everyone is unique/different" and has different ways of rooting for ones team.. And I thank God for that lol..

By the way I am thinking of all you guys n gals that live North of me. I pray everyone and family is okay and staying warm.. All good here lots and lots of snow!! I live in a Co Op and this building could probably take a direct hit by a missile, God forbid and still be standing.
I'll admit that most of my dislike for TT comes from his politics. I'm probably to the left of Ference...

That said, I root for the Bruins. When someone seems to put the Bruins in a compromising situation because of his personal life, I'm not going to rationalize that as a positive because I don't care about his personal life.

Great, you helped the Bruins win the Cup. I rooted for him his whole career as a Bruin, but leaving the team that put faith in you, made you a top tier goaltender, and gave you the contract you wanted doesn't seem right to me.

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02-09-2013, 01:22 AM
  #450
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If Thomas was 26, I would feel differently.

But the man is pushing 40. He doesn't have much time left. After what he's done and what he's gone thru, I have no issues with what he wants to do for himself and his family; he's already given this team and franchise enough. He wants to ride off to his own sunset - he's earned it.

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