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Old
02-07-2013, 10:13 PM
  #626
Joe11
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add another nothing game to his resume,-- just saying

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02-07-2013, 11:35 PM
  #627
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Originally Posted by NashtyAttack View Post
I believe you're the first person I've ever talked to that has less patience than Torts. I'm honored by this experience.
As Jesse "The Body" Ventura used to say, "The Pleasure Was All Yours."

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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Mark Messier was bigger, faster, more physically engaged and had a better shot than the great one.

Stepan is much more talented offensively and a much smarter player. I say there is a very small chance of Miller surpassing Stepan at any point in their careers.
Talk to me in a couple of years pal!

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Originally Posted by Joe11 View Post
add another nothing game to his resume,-- just saying
Even I who trashes Stepan a lot will admit he is doing much better on face-offs lately and he seems more engaged although it would be nice if he scored more goals. Some posters around here think that 2nd line centers don't need to score goals! Duh.


Last edited by JeffMangum: 02-08-2013 at 01:57 AM.
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02-08-2013, 12:41 AM
  #628
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Mark Messier was bigger, faster, more physically engaged and had a better shot than the great one.

Stepan is much more talented offensively and a much smarter player. I say there is a very small chance of Miller surpassing Stepan at any point in their careers.
I think it is way too early to draw conclusions of any sort on either player.


Last edited by trilobyte: 02-08-2013 at 12:41 AM. Reason: added some words
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02-08-2013, 01:54 AM
  #629
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Nope; 1 goal in 25 playoff games isn't nearly enough to be a 2nd line center pal!!!! Stop drinking the Stepan coolade!
Drew, come on. You've reverted to shouting about "drinking the kool-aid".

And the responses to you are correct, he's 22. You're right, he's been abysmal in the playoffs so far. He needs to be better. But there's nothing magical about the playoffs that makes it different from hockey. Players try harder, and there's more mental pressure and stress. That's all.

He's a proven 2nd line center. he's had a sub-par 10 games to start the season, and managed to put up 5 points regardless.

Stepan isn't a goalscorer. Yes, we expect him to chip in, but that's not his primary role, it's not his strength, and it'd be foolish not to play to a 50 point player's strengths.


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02-08-2013, 10:59 AM
  #630
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Drew, come on. You've reverted to shouting about "drinking the kool-aid".

And the responses to you are correct, he's 22. You're right, he's been abysmal in the playoffs so far. He needs to be better. But there's nothing magical about the playoffs that makes it different from hockey. Players try harder, and there's more mental pressure and stress. That's all.

He's a proven 2nd line center. he's had a sub-par 10 games to start the season, and managed to put up 5 points regardless.

Stepan isn't a goalscorer. Yes, we expect him to chip in, but that's not his primary role, it's not his strength, and it'd be foolish not to play to a 50 point player's strengths.
And this is what myself and a handful of other posters have a problem with about Stepan. This team is expected to contend RIGHT NOW and for good reason. You need a guy at 2C that brings more to the table offensively than Stepan. You just cannot, CANNOT in our division get away with a guy who's "primary role" is not to put up a serious amount of self-generated points as your #2C. Other teams look at our bottom 3 lines and laugh. If/when Miller comes back down to earth OR if by some miracle they decide to send him back to CT we're gonna have the same problems we did before he got here. No secondary scoring because our anchor on the 2nd line is a defensive minded playmaker with poor speed a poor shot and who decides to show up 10% of the time. If he's so adequate defensively which I believe he is, play him on the 3rd line until he either A) gets his head out of his ass and decides to make some plays in the other team's end zone or B) he develops a set of hands and a shot overnight

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02-08-2013, 11:13 AM
  #631
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I wouldn't agree that you "need" your 2nd line center to be a big time goal scorer, but you do need your second line to be a big time scoring line. You can't get by with one line scoring and then your second line being basically grinders and defensive players.

Stepan can be a defensive-minded player and good passer on that line, but that line just isn't going to function with him in that role if he's flanked by a garbageman in Callahan and Hagelin, a speedster with very little offensive touch.

Nash or Gaborik is going to have to come off that first line. Stepan centering Gaborik, who snipes from the slot and the circles, with Callahan there for cleanup, looks like a much more effective combo than three non skilled players.

Then you still have Richards and Nash working their magic on the top line and Hagelin can be a catalyst for them up there with hustle.

Of course, this is moot if Kreider turns into a 30 goal scorer type player because then HE can be the 2nd line scorer and Gaborik can return to the top line.

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02-08-2013, 11:13 AM
  #632
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He is cheap for now , which is what we need . Whenever he is due for a new contract the Rangers will look at his situation and probably have a good idea of where he stands long term in our organization . Personally I think it is is 50-50 on his future here . He might have more value as trade bait versus being a number 2 Center here if he can bring back a good piece that helps us win a Cup...which would take all the sting out of trading him . The Rangers hopefully will make the best decision possible .

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02-08-2013, 11:18 AM
  #633
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Originally Posted by mschmidt64 View Post
I wouldn't agree that you "need" your 2nd line center to be a big time goal scorer, but you do need your second line to be a big time scoring line. You can't get by with one line scoring and then your second line being basically grinders and defensive players.

Stepan can be a defensive-minded player and good passer on that line, but that line just isn't going to function with him in that role if he's flanked by a garbageman in Callahan and Hagelin, a speedster with very little offensive touch.

Nash or Gaborik is going to have to come off that first line. Stepan centering Gaborik, who snipes from the slot and the circles, with Callahan there for cleanup, looks like a much more effective combo than three non skilled players.

Then you still have Richards and Nash working their magic on the top line and Hagelin can be a catalyst for them up there with hustle.

Of course, this is moot if Kreider turns into a 30 goal scorer type player because then HE can be the 2nd line scorer and Gaborik can return to the top line.
Agree with everything but the last bit. Even if Kreider becomes a 25+ goal scorer, I'd keep that top line split up. It's just better depth management. It hasn't been good. Certainly not the dominant offensive force you'd expect. I'd keep Nash and Gaborik separated. It makes us even better if Kreider can be a 25 goal guy in the future.

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02-08-2013, 11:20 AM
  #634
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Originally Posted by NashtyAttack View Post
Stepan's only TRUE flaw is his skating. If he can improve that, his entire game will improve.

But wait, I forgot. This is HF. Evgeni Malkin is the standard to which all 2nd line centers are compared.
That is the biggest 2 letter word in the English language, my friend.

His pros outweigh his cons.
But his pros are limited.
Can we agree on that as an honest consensus?

And if yes, at the other appropriate trade thread, not here, does it make more sense to keep him or deal him? One thinks that would depend upon the return...

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02-08-2013, 12:12 PM
  #635
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I can handle the 2nd line center not being a big goal scorer if he is a good passer, setting up teammates. But can you see any trace of that this season? I haven't see it, just someone who is floating around, just looking to get rid of the puck, instead of making moves to set up scoring.

Hope he proves these statements wrong, but I see more fans coming to this conclusion as they continue to run out of excuses( snake bitten, bad linemates, etc) and see his offensive play as one big vacuum.

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Old
02-08-2013, 08:26 PM
  #636
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Is Stepan expendable?

With the emergence of Miller and prospects such as Lindberg and Nieves, me think Steps days as a Ranger are numbered.

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02-08-2013, 08:51 PM
  #637
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Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
Is Stepan expendable?

With the emergence of Miller and prospects such as Lindberg and Nieves, me think Steps days as a Ranger are numbered.
So far, I'd take Stepans body of work over the combined two games of NHL experience shared by Miller, Lindberg and Nieves.

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02-08-2013, 08:53 PM
  #638
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So far, I'd take Stepans body of work over the combined two games of NHL experience shared by Miller, Lindberg and Nieves.
You might take it but it gives the organization flexibility. I would guess that he is not on the 2015-2016 roster.

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02-08-2013, 09:01 PM
  #639
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The kid is what 22? Let's give him some more time. After the 90's and watching Weight and others go on to have outstanding or even solid careers elsewhere, I certainly don't want to give up on Stepan so early. He is having a rough start to the season, but with such unusual circumstances I'm not ready to say he there is no progression left.

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02-08-2013, 09:54 PM
  #640
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Originally Posted by Speedtrials View Post
The kid is what 22? Let's give him some more time. After the 90's and watching Weight and others go on to have outstanding or even solid careers elsewhere, I certainly don't want to give up on Stepan so early. He is having a rough start to the season, but with such unusual circumstances I'm not ready to say he there is no progression left.
but wasn't Weight always projected to be a complete player, which is not the case with Stepan, who gets by and to a limited extent contributes on intangibles, but clearly lacks the physical ability and gifts to ever excel or dominate?

Stepan can improve certain aspects, sure, but if he fills out, how strong can he be? his skating can improve, but can he ever motor with the other guys on our club?

Let's keep him, use him wisely, but not hesitate if there is a good offer!

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02-08-2013, 10:03 PM
  #641
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Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
Is Stepan expendable?

With the emergence of Miller and prospects such as Lindberg and Nieves, me think Steps days as a Ranger are numbered.

Yeah 22 year old 50-point producers are expendable.

Miller is better suited on the wing. Lindber is yet to play a game in NHL and Boo is probably 3 years away from NHL.

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02-08-2013, 10:45 PM
  #642
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Originally Posted by WojtekGoalski View Post
And this is what myself and a handful of other posters have a problem with about Stepan. This team is expected to contend RIGHT NOW and for good reason. You need a guy at 2C that brings more to the table offensively than Stepan. You just cannot, CANNOT in our division get away with a guy who's "primary role" is not to put up a serious amount of self-generated points as your #2C. Other teams look at our bottom 3 lines and laugh. If/when Miller comes back down to earth OR if by some miracle they decide to send him back to CT we're gonna have the same problems we did before he got here. No secondary scoring because our anchor on the 2nd line is a defensive minded playmaker with poor speed a poor shot and who decides to show up 10% of the time. If he's so adequate defensively which I believe he is, play him on the 3rd line until he either A) gets his head out of his ass and decides to make some plays in the other team's end zone or B) he develops a set of hands and a shot overnight
Points do not equal goals.

I'm not expecting him to score goals. I'm expecting him to create them. I'm expecting Gaborik, Nash, Callahan, and Richards to score most of our goals.

He's created a fair amount of chances. The way this team played early on, it's tough to accrue assists when nobody is scoring. Especially your linemates.

The entire team has needed to step up. Some of them have, some of them will. Just watch.

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02-08-2013, 10:55 PM
  #643
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Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
Is Stepan expendable?

With the emergence of Miller and prospects such as Lindberg and Nieves, me think Steps days as a Ranger are numbered.
Talking about Nieves in the same breath as Stepan is a joke...The kid is YEARS away and that's if he even makes it. I liked the draft pick but he's looked outmatched in college so far, let's not talk about him anywhere near the Rangers roster yet.

Knowing how Sather has operated over the last few years, Stepan's camp will come into contract negotiations with some big price, and by the end of it all Stepan will sign some 2 year deal worth a few million bucks and we'll all be happy that he's got a chance to prove himself now that he's grown into his body a little better and played the game for a little longer. You guys gotta give a 22 year old a break, he's not looked at as a top line savior, he was a projected 2nd liner and that's what he is and will always be. 55 points from your 22 year old 2nd line center is great, let's relax for a bit and let him grow.

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02-08-2013, 11:16 PM
  #644
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Originally Posted by Callagraves View Post
Points do not equal goals.

I'm not expecting him to score goals. I'm expecting him to create them. I'm expecting Gaborik, Nash, Callahan, and Richards to score most of our goals.

He's created a fair amount of chances. The way this team played early on, it's tough to accrue assists when nobody is scoring. Especially your linemates.

The entire team has needed to step up. Some of them have, some of them will. Just watch.
QFT, how ridiculous that people are ready to toss him aside after what he's done for 2 seasons. Granted his play-off's haven't been awesome, but they haven't been bad either. First one with 5 games, doesn't score as a rookie, that's allowable, 2nd round of play-offs, 9 points in 20 games. He's 22 and hes already scored 51 points. This season he's got 5 points in 10 games. As far as I can tell he's doing pretty steady, and he's never been a goalscorer. LET'S NOT FORGET that last season he was 4th in scoring on the team behind Gaborik, Richards, and Callahan.

He's literally starting his 3rd season and has gotten off to a slow start in the 10 games we have seen him in. If he averages to be a 2nd line 50 point playmaking center... Is this really a bad thing? The kid isn't even hitting 1 million in the cap.

Yes he has holes in his game compared to the "Prototypical Perfect NHL'er". Not the greatest set of wheels but they work, not the most physical but he does get a few garbage goals and pucks along the board.

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02-09-2013, 12:01 AM
  #645
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Talking about Nieves in the same breath as Stepan is a joke...The kid is YEARS away and that's if he even makes it. I liked the draft pick but he's looked outmatched in college so far, let's not talk about him anywhere near the Rangers roster yet.

Knowing how Sather has operated over the last few years, Stepan's camp will come into contract negotiations with some big price, and by the end of it all Stepan will sign some 2 year deal worth a few million bucks and we'll all be happy that he's got a chance to prove himself now that he's grown into his body a little better and played the game for a little longer. You guys gotta give a 22 year old a break, he's not looked at as a top line savior, he was a projected 2nd liner and that's what he is and will always be. 55 points from your 22 year old 2nd line center is great, let's relax for a bit and let him grow.
Goodness...

Listen, I don't disagree with your point about Stepan. He is a quality top 6 player who gets easily dismissed because his talent is more based on IQ than dominant physical gifts. I actually see his development as potentially a factor in deciding whether or not to buy out Richie next summer.

But, you do yourself a diservice by making your point at the expense of Nieves. If you'd actually been watching Boo, you'd realize he's positively exploding at the NCAA level (as a freshman, mind you!). To call him outmatched? Flat out ignorant. He's performing at the same level as Nick Bjugstad for crying out loud.

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02-13-2013, 12:34 PM
  #646
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Stepan has gotten a lot better on face offs. Good to see he's making progress.

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02-13-2013, 12:41 PM
  #647
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This thread should either be closed or stickied as the offical "whipping boy" thread.

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02-13-2013, 12:44 PM
  #648
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Goodness...

Listen, I don't disagree with your point about Stepan. He is a quality top 6 player who gets easily dismissed because his talent is more based on IQ than dominant physical gifts. I actually see his development as potentially a factor in deciding whether or not to buy out Richie next summer.

But, you do yourself a diservice by making your point at the expense of Nieves. If you'd actually been watching Boo, you'd realize he's positively exploding at the NCAA level (as a freshman, mind you!). To call him outmatched? Flat out ignorant. He's performing at the same level as Nick Bjugstad for crying out loud.

For comparison. I believe Boo has as many power play goals as the rangers do.

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03-03-2013, 11:01 PM
  #649
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bump

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03-03-2013, 11:07 PM
  #650
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Stepan played an incredible game tonight.

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