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Realignment: Did the CBA address this?

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Old
02-08-2013, 02:14 PM
  #426
Jnr78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post
I couldn't resist, HugoSimon, I had to post:

3 Conference Format revisited:

Western ConferenceCentral ConferenceEastern Conference
PACIFICMIDWESTATLANTIC
VancouverDetroitMontreal
San JoseColumbusBoston
Los AngelesChicagoNY Rangers
AnaheimSt LouisNY Islanders
PhoenixDallasNew Jersey
NORTHWESTSOUTHEASTNORTHEAST
EdmontonWashingtonOttawa
CalgaryCarolinaToronto
ColoradoNashvilleBuffalo
WinnipegTampa BayPittsburgh
MinnesotaFloridaPhiladelphia

(Of course that Eastern Conference alignment will be chewed up and spit out; but you can align them as you wish.)

Regular Season Schedule:
24 games = 6 x 4
20 games = 4 x 5
40 games = 2 x 20
84 game total

Playoff Teams:
6 teams = Top team in each Division makes the Playoffs.
9 teams = The 3 teams with the next best records in each Conference make the Playoffs.
1 team = Final wildcard spot is awarded to the team with the next best record League-wide.
16-team Playoff

Playoff Seeding:
There would be 5 teams representing each Conference, with one Conference having 6 teams.
- For the 1st Round, within each Conference, the Top seeded team would be matched up against the Lowest seeded team within that Conference. The 2nd seed would match against the 2nd lowest...., and the two Conferences with 5 teams entering the Playoffs would have their 3rd place teams play each other.
- For the 2nd Round, two Conferences would still have 3 teams remaining and the other Conference would still have 2 teams remaining. Again, the middle seeded teams in the two Conferences with 3 remaining teams would play each other.
- For the 3rd, Conference Elimination, Round the four remaining teams from the 3 Conferences would play each other (one Conference still having two representatives that would play each other, assuring that Conference a Finals representative), while the result of the other matchup would effectively eliminate one Conference from competition,... thus producing the two Conference Champions.

- For the Final, as usual, the 2 Conference Champions meet.
Just make the Western Conference an 8-team conference, the Central and Eastern Conferences would be 11-team conferences, and after expansion they would be 12-team conferences. 4 teams make the playoffs in the West, 6 teams in the Central and 6 in the East.

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Old
02-08-2013, 02:33 PM
  #427
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Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post
I expected the Phily / Montreal commentary from someone,... but the other change you're suggesting doesn't make sense. Any new structure should do away with 3-Time Zone Divisions (not maintain them).
Not sure the Time Zones are as much of an issue as the travel distance. You could keep the 2 time zone Divisions, by just swapping Dallas and Minnesota (Minn doesnt belong in a division with teams in Northwestern Canada no more than WPG belongs in a division with cities in Florida), yet many of those teams now in a new Northwest would have to travel farther than the the teams in the Pacific would if Dallas wound up there.

The Stars sure as heck would rather be going to LA and Anaheim than Edmonton and Calgary, even though it crosses more time zones. Need to consider the latitude as well as the longitude.

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02-08-2013, 03:30 PM
  #428
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Originally Posted by IceAce View Post
Not sure the Time Zones are as much of an issue as the travel distance. You could keep the 2 time zone Divisions, by just swapping Dallas and Minnesota (Minn doesnt belong in a division with teams in Northwestern Canada no more than WPG belongs in a division with cities in Florida), yet many of those teams now in a new Northwest would have to travel farther than the the teams in the Pacific would if Dallas wound up there.

The Stars sure as heck would rather be going to LA and Anaheim than Edmonton and Calgary, even though it crosses more time zones. Need to consider the latitude as well as the longitude.
Timezones are worst than distance, because it makes it ten times harder for a team in say columbus to have a loyal audience.

Distance means the home team advantage is exaggerated, but as long as their is equal number of home and away it`s not as big of an issue for the league(obviously huge for the players).

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02-08-2013, 03:43 PM
  #429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IceAce View Post
Switch the Wild into the Midwest, the Stars into the Pacific, and the Canucks into the Northwest and you might be on to something.

Although I could see Philly and MTL lobbying for a swap as well in this scenario.
IceAce:

Aren't you forgetting that Vancouver already is in the NW and Dallas is in the Pacific as of the current alignment, which is why Dallas has been asking to move out of the Pacific which is why the general consensus has been in any realignment proposal to put Vancouver into Dallas' SPOT in the Pacific.

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02-08-2013, 07:50 PM
  #430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post
I couldn't resist, HugoSimon, I had to post:

3 Conference Format revisited:

Western ConferenceCentral ConferenceEastern Conference
PACIFICMIDWESTATLANTIC
VancouverDetroitMontreal
San JoseColumbusBoston
Los AngelesChicagoNY Rangers
AnaheimSt LouisNY Islanders
PhoenixDallasNew Jersey
NORTHWESTSOUTHEASTNORTHEAST
EdmontonWashingtonOttawa
CalgaryCarolinaToronto
ColoradoNashvilleBuffalo
WinnipegTampa BayPittsburgh
MinnesotaFloridaPhiladelphia

(Of course that Eastern Conference alignment will be chewed up and spit out; but you can align them as you wish.)

Regular Season Schedule:
24 games = 6 x 4
20 games = 4 x 5
40 games = 2 x 20
84 game total

Playoff Teams:
6 teams = Top team in each Division makes the Playoffs.
9 teams = The 3 teams with the next best records in each Conference make the Playoffs.
1 team = Final wildcard spot is awarded to the team with the next best record League-wide.
16-team Playoff

Playoff Seeding:
There would be 5 teams representing each Conference, with one Conference having 6 teams.
- For the 1st Round, within each Conference, the Top seeded team would be matched up against the Lowest seeded team within that Conference. The 2nd seed would match against the 2nd lowest...., and the two Conferences with 5 teams entering the Playoffs would have their 3rd place teams play each other.
- For the 2nd Round, two Conferences would still have 3 teams remaining and the other Conference would still have 2 teams remaining. Again, the middle seeded teams in the two Conferences with 3 remaining teams would play each other.
- For the 3rd, Conference Elimination, Round the four remaining teams from the 3 Conferences would play each other (one Conference still having two representatives that would play each other, assuring that Conference a Finals representative), while the result of the other matchup would effectively eliminate one Conference from competition,... thus producing the two Conference Champions.

- For the Final, as usual, the 2 Conference Champions meet.
This is what I would like the league to implement for the 3 conference format if they ever read the board for the following reason: balanced schedule in this regular season games. If we go with 2 conference and 3 divisions each conference, there's still unbalanced schedule with only 18 interconference games. So with this schedule, I like the 40 games with interconference games if you balance it with home/away.

However, the playoffs format remains the sticky spot. Since the schedule breakdown looks good. I have put in the idea a few years ago about this format and I would like to revisit the format for this thread.

There are two stages of the 3 conference to determine the playoff bracket. I will put the illustration on how this will work.

Stage One

Fig 1.0Allotment.jpg (Click this image to enlarge)

Five simple steps from this illustration:

First step: Each teams' first 58 games schedule will be played, home and away against 29 other teams, two games against each other for this allotment standing to count.

Second step: We count all teams win/loss into the conference standing. You will see the T in the column, it represents the regulation time tied into OT does not affect the true standing in OTL we have now. This is to prevent the conference games 3 pointer while other conference has played fewer OT.

Third step: with all the games counted, it determines the strength of the three conference and top 2 conference will be awarded 6 playoff spots and the last conference will be awarded 4 playoff spots. This announcement can be made right before the all-star break.

Fourth step: After the announcement, teams' remain 26 games will be played against the conference play in February/March/April.

Fifth step: All teams' 84 games is counted toward the final standing that includes OTL to determine total points for each team in the conference and playoff begins with the illustration below.

Stage Two

Fig 2.0 Playoff System.jpg (Click this image to enlarge)

Four simple steps in the playoff bracket:

First step: All first round series is best of 7. (See Fig 2.0 for match-ups for each conference)

Second step: the weakest conference first round winners will be split up and join two strongest conference. (see Fig 2.0). Two strongest conference will not meet each other until the Stanley Cup Final. The first round winners will be grouped together in a box for the reseeding purpose.

Third step: after reseeding, all second round series is best of 7 and remains that way until the Cup Finals.

Fourth step: the bracket will lead to the Stanley Cup final and the two weakest conference teams that was split up could potentially meet each other for the final if they wins their next two series against other teams in the bracket.

I know that this idea is complicated but if you follow those steps, it becomes much simple to follow and makes the most sense.

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02-08-2013, 08:06 PM
  #431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolboarder View Post
This is what I would like the league to implement for the 3 conference format if they ever read the board for the following reason: balanced schedule in this regular season games. If we go with 2 conference and 3 divisions each conference, there's still unbalanced schedule with only 18 interconference games. So with this schedule, I like the 40 games with interconference games if you balance it with home/away.

However, the playoffs format remains the sticky spot. Since the schedule breakdown looks good. I have put in the idea a few years ago about this format and I would like to revisit the format for this thread.

There are two stages of the 3 conference to determine the playoff bracket. I will put the illustration on how this will work.

Stage One

Fig 1.0Attachment 60937 (Click this image to enlarge)

Five simple steps from this illustration:

First step: Each teams' first 58 games schedule will be played, home and away against 29 other teams, two games against each other for this allotment standing to count.

Second step: We count all teams win/loss into the conference standing. You will see the T in the column, it represents the regulation time tied into OT does not affect the true standing in OTL we have now. This is to prevent the conference games 3 pointer while other conference has played fewer OT.

Third step: with all the games counted, it determines the strength of the three conference and top 2 conference will be awarded 6 playoff spots and the last conference will be awarded 4 playoff spots. This announcement can be made right before the all-star break.

Fourth step: After the announcement, teams' remain 26 games will be played against the conference play in February/March/April.

Fifth step: All teams' 84 games is counted toward the final standing that includes OTL to determine total points for each team in the conference and playoff begins with the illustration below.

Stage Two

Fig 2.0 Attachment 60939 (Click this image to enlarge)

Four simple steps in the playoff bracket:

First step: All first round series is best of 7. (See Fig 2.0 for match-ups for each conference)

Second step: the weakest conference first round winners will be split up and join two strongest conference. (see Fig 2.0). Two strongest conference will not meet each other until the Stanley Cup Final. The first round winners will be grouped together in a box for the reseeding purpose.

Third step: after reseeding, all second round series is best of 7 and remains that way until the Cup Finals.

Fourth step: the bracket will lead to the Stanley Cup final and the two weakest conference teams that was split up could potentially meet each other for the final if they wins their next two series against other teams in the bracket.

I know that this idea is complicated but if you follow those steps, it becomes much simple to follow and makes the most sense.
How could it possibly be guaranteed to be fair that two Conferences get 6 Playoff teams and one Conference only gets 4 Playoff teams? It might work out that way sometimes, but most times... ?


Last edited by MoreOrr: 02-08-2013 at 09:38 PM. Reason: typo
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02-08-2013, 09:13 PM
  #432
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How it possibly be guaranteed to be fair that two Conferences get 6 Playoff teams and one Conference only gets 4 Playoff teams? It might work out that way sometimes, but most times... ?
The reason it is fair because you will want to have the conference based playoff as much as possible. I do agree that it is unfair for the weakest conference with 4 spots but this is reasonable solution because it is incentive based performance. This format will prevent the lull of the regular season and make them play their hardest to ensure the guarantee of their playoff spot to 6 teams in their own conference, including the middle ranked teams and the weaker teams in the conference would not want to let the other conference get its 2 extra spots making the inter-conference games even more important. My final point is that the strength of each conference changes from year to year.

One positive thing about the 6 playoffs spot and 4 playoff spot is the extra games within the conference to vent their frustration of the weaker teams inability to be strong when they played the inter-conference games between February-April and this will fuel the rivalry between the conference teams.

If this is still unfair then 3 conference playoff could work well if they just do with top 4 in each conference making this 12 teams in the playoffs but that is too low ratio with playoffs teams. Even with the 3 conference set-up, the league-wide playoff system won't work due to the travel and the disadvantage of the east coast teams having to fly over to the west for the 7 games series for early rounds.

Top 6-8 in each conference make the playoffs with 18 or 24 teams and nobody wants that many teams in the playoffs. Even the conference winner would end up with 3 conference winners but how do you determine the final 3 and we want to keep the tradition of the Stanley Cup Final series and the best of 7 rounds.

So hence, I thought of this format I made in my recent post to make it much easier to follow and we don't want to see 3 conference winner end up with the robin round format for the Cup. We tend to talk about which conference is the strongest as we still debate with fans which conference is the strongest with east/west format we have today. We don't want to shut out the weakest conference of their playoff hopes so top 4 is the happy medium to allow them an opportunity of their own and split up and join other bracket so that the bracket is more balanced.

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02-08-2013, 09:21 PM
  #433
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My idea.

32 Teams
4 Teams / 8 Divisions
I try yo keep the rivalries.


WESTERN

Pacific
1. Anaheim Ducks
2. Los Angeles Kings
3. Seattle/Portland [Expansion]
4. San Jose Sharks

Rocky Mountain
1. Calgary Flames
2. Colorado Avalanche
3. Edmonton Oilers
4. Vancouver Canucks

Great Lakes
1. Chicago Blackhawks
2. Detroit Red Wings
3. Minnesota Wild
4. Winnipeg Jets

Central
1. Columbus Blue Jackets
2. Dallas Stars
3. Nashville Predators
4. St. Louis Blues



EASTERN
Northeast
1. Boston Bruins
2. Montreal Canadiens
3. Toronto Maple Leafs
4. Quebec [Phoenix Coyotes]

Atlantic
1. Buffalo Sabres
2. New Jersey Devils
3. Ottawa Senators
4. Toronto [Expansion]

Appalachia
1. New York Islanders
2. New York Rangers
3. Philadelphia Flyers
4. Pittsburgh Penguins

Southeastern
1. Carolina Hurricanes
2. Florida Panthers
3. Tampa Bay Lightning
4. Washington Capitals

Notes
Had to keep Vancouver with Northwest teams because of Seattle/Portland.
Had to keep Columbus in the "south"central because of the Great Lake division.
Kept Toronto with Canadian teams, had to keep Boston with original six as well.
Had to keep both Toronto franchises separate from each other, attendance issue.
Last two divisions normally kept intact.

Schedule
Any team that travels under 40,000 miles plays more back-to-back games
2 games against every team in the league (1 at home / 1 on the road)
18 games against division (3 at home / 3 on the road)
Top 4 teams would be divisional leaders with the top 8 making the playoffs in the conference.
Final 4 and final 2 teams in playoffs would be based from highest to lowest points and not based on West/East Conferences.


Last edited by S E P H: 02-08-2013 at 09:29 PM.
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02-08-2013, 09:43 PM
  #434
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The reason it is fair because you will want to have the conference based playoff as much as possible. I do agree that it is unfair for the weakest conference with 4 spots but this is reasonable solution because it is incentive based performance. This format will prevent the lull of the regular season and make them play their hardest to ensure the guarantee of their playoff spot to 6 teams in their own conference, including the middle ranked teams and the weaker teams in the conference would not want to let the other conference get its 2 extra spots making the inter-conference games even more important. My final point is that the strength of each conference changes from year to year.
What's this passion for Conference or Divisional based Playoffs that's such an importance to some of you? Rivalry matchups are great, but as someone said the other day, they're also great is they don't happen all the time. And variety can breed new matchups. If there's a system that allows a bit of mix and match, I don't see what the problem is. I'm not keen on your 6-6-4 Playoff system. Yes, now I understand it, but such a system isn't necessary.

What if the weaker Conference is just very marginally weaker, by a fraction of a % give or take? It still gets penalized by having 2 teams less making the Playoffs. What if the big difference is one Conference that is particularly stronger than the other two which are about equal? Should that strong Conference then get 8 Playoff teams and the other two only 4 each?


Last edited by MoreOrr: 02-08-2013 at 09:49 PM.
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02-08-2013, 09:44 PM
  #435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
My idea.

32 Teams
4 Teams / 8 Divisions
I try yo keep the rivalries.


WESTERN

Pacific
1. Anaheim Ducks
2. Los Angeles Kings
3. Seattle/Portland [Expansion]
4. San Jose Sharks

Rocky Mountain
1. Calgary Flames
2. Colorado Avalanche
3. Edmonton Oilers
4. Vancouver Canucks

Great Lakes
1. Chicago Blackhawks
2. Detroit Red Wings
3. Minnesota Wild
4. Winnipeg Jets

Central
1. Columbus Blue Jackets
2. Dallas Stars
3. Nashville Predators
4. St. Louis Blues



EASTERN
Northeast
1. Boston Bruins
2. Montreal Canadiens
3. Toronto Maple Leafs
4. Quebec [Phoenix Coyotes]

Atlantic
1. Buffalo Sabres
2. New Jersey Devils
3. Ottawa Senators
4. Toronto [Expansion]

Appalachia
1. New York Islanders
2. New York Rangers
3. Philadelphia Flyers
4. Pittsburgh Penguins

Southeastern
1. Carolina Hurricanes
2. Florida Panthers
3. Tampa Bay Lightning
4. Washington Capitals

Notes
Had to keep Vancouver with Northwest teams because of Seattle/Portland.
Had to keep Columbus in the "south"central because of the Great Lake division.
Kept Toronto with Canadian teams, had to keep Boston with original six as well.
Had to keep both Toronto franchises separate from each other, attendance issue.
Last two divisions normally kept intact.

Schedule
Any team that travels under 40,000 miles plays more back-to-back games
2 games against every team in the league (1 at home / 1 on the road)
18 games against division (3 at home / 3 on the road)
I would adjust the division for Vancouver and let Colorado join Pacific for the following reason: Vancouver/Seattle is the closest distance and would save their travel.

I do not agree with the New Jersey, they would cry foul of being separated from the NY Rangers/Islanders and Buffalo losing their rivalry with Boston. 2nd Toronto should be put in Western Conference if Quebec City is relocated from Phoenix.


WESTERN

Pacific
1. Anaheim Ducks
2. Los Angeles Kings
3. Colorado Avalanche
4. San Jose Sharks

Rocky Mountain
1. Calgary Flames
2. Seattle/Portland (Expansion)
3. Edmonton Oilers
4. Vancouver Canucks

Great Lakes
1. Chicago Blackhawks
2. Detroit Red Wings
3. Columbus Blue Jackets
4. Toronto (Expansion)

Central
1. Dallas Stars
2. Winnipeg Jets
3. Minnesota Wild
4. St. Louis Blues

EASTERN
Northeast
1. Boston Bruins
2. Montreal Canadiens
3. Toronto Maple Leafs
4. Buffalo Sabres

Appalachia
1. Quebec City
2. Pittsburgh Penguins
3. Ottawa Senators
4. New York Islanders or Philadelphia Flyers

Atlantic
1. New Jersey Devils
2. New York Rangers
3. Philadelphia Flyers or New York Islanders
4. Washington Capitals

Southeast
1. Carolina Hurricanes
2. Florida Panthers
3. Tampa Bay Lightning
4. Nashville Predators

You will notice that I put Philadelphia or New York Islanders for following factor: NY Islanders wants to keep the rivalry with the Rangers but the Islanders is closest to Canadian border but Philadelphia will have to take a tough choice, their choice of keeping the rivalry with the Pens and pairs them with the Canadian team or keeping NYR/NJ/Was/Phil rivalry. Snyder will have a tough choice if they have the first choice. Pittsburgh is obviously in no-man land due to limited 4 team divisions.

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02-08-2013, 09:56 PM
  #436
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post
What's this passion for Conference or Divisional based Playoffs that's such an importance to some of you? Rivalry matchups are great, but as someone said the other day, they're also great is they don't happen all the time. And variety can breed new matchups. If there's a system that allows a bit of mix and match, I don't see what the problem is. I'm not keen on your 6-6-4 Playoff system. Yes, now I understand it, but such a system isn't necessary.
Travel is the main reason of my team, Vancouver, in that they have had to travel a lot in the playoffs for instance, in 2011 run, they had to go Chicago, Nashville and Boston when they have had San Jose for the series while Boston has Montreal, Philadelphia and Tampa Bay in comparison, easiest travel-wise. Conference-based system would reduce reduce the travel within their time zone and maybe the mountain time zone for the duration of the playoffs. If Vancouver is in the east, I would have no issue with any system.

If you remember, last year, LA had to play against Vancouver, and Phoenix and their travel is still close for two rounds and won the cup while the two series is in CTZ and ETZ against St. Louis and NJ. This is the difference that LA is able to win the cup even though they were a great team and got hot at right time.

This is the reason why I favor the conference based playoffs or division for the 4 conference format or whatever format they choose.

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02-08-2013, 10:11 PM
  #437
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Travel is the main reason of my team, Vancouver, in that they have had to travel a lot in the playoffs for instance, in 2011 run, they had to go Chicago, Nashville and Boston when they have had San Jose for the series while Boston has Montreal, Philadelphia and Tampa Bay in comparison, easiest travel-wise. Conference-based system would reduce reduce the travel within their time zone and maybe the mountain time zone for the duration of the playoffs. If Vancouver is in the east, I would have no issue with any system.

If you remember, last year, LA had to play against Vancouver, and Phoenix and their travel is still close for two rounds and won the cup while the two series is in CTZ and ETZ against St. Louis and NJ. This is the difference that LA is able to win the cup even though they were a great team and got hot at right time.

This is the reason why I favor the conference based playoffs or division for the 4 conference format or whatever format they choose.
This travel issue has a lot of variables. Yes, for players playing in western cities, travel is tougher. But then, it's essentially the same in all leagues. And in the NHL, it doesn't seem to have hindered western teams from winning the Cup. LA has won, Anaheim has won, Colorado has won, Dallas has won, Calgary has won, Edmonton has won, plus Detroit and Chicago have won while having to travel to the west coast.
And yes, there are TV broadcast issues. However, something I haven't heard mentioned much, if at all, is this... A great % of the viewing audience, like it or not, is in the east, as goes the population. If the League starts having a significant proportion of the Playoffs with all-west matchups, there well could be significant audience numbers lost. At least when its a CTZ or ETZ matchup with a PTZ or MTZ team, you're going to get a % of ETZ and CTZ viewers tuning in regardless of the hour. That's a significant factor that's being overlooked in this TV broadcast time discussion.

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02-09-2013, 07:18 PM
  #438
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Sorry, but parts of this alignment are even more of a geographic joke than having the 2 Florida teams in the proposed "Northeast".
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolboarder View Post
I do not agree with the New Jersey, they would cry foul of being separated from the NY Rangers/Islanders and Buffalo losing their rivalry with Boston. 2nd Toronto should be put in Western Conference if Quebec City is relocated from Phoenix.

[B]
Great Lakes
1. Chicago Blackhawks
2. Detroit Red Wings
3. Columbus Blue Jackets
4. Toronto (Expansion)

EASTERN
Northeast
1. Boston Bruins
2. Montreal Canadiens
3. Toronto Maple Leafs
4. Buffalo Sabres

Appalachia
1. Quebec City
2. Pittsburgh Penguins
3. Ottawa Senators
4. New York Islanders or Philadelphia Flyers

Atlantic
1. New Jersey Devils
2. New York Rangers
3. Philadelphia Flyers or New York Islanders
4. Washington Capitals
Let's count the problems...
  • Having the 2 Toronto teams in separate divisions is bad marketing. Bad, bad, bad.
  • Ottawa is physically located between Toronto and Montreal, yet is not in their division.
  • Montreal is physically located between Ottawa and Quebec, yet is not in their division.
  • Seprate from the above, splitting Montreal and Quebec is yet another marketing mistake of colossal proportions.
  • Splitting the Islanders from the other 2 NY City area teams... see comments about splitting Toronto teams. Same principle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolboarder View Post
You will notice that I put Philadelphia or New York Islanders for following factor: NY Islanders wants to keep the rivalry with the Rangers but the Islanders is closest to Canadian border but Philadelphia will have to take a tough choice, their choice of keeping the rivalry with the Pens and pairs them with the Canadian team or keeping NYR/NJ/Was/Phil rivalry. Snyder will have a tough choice if they have the first choice. Pittsburgh is obviously in no-man land due to limited 4 team divisions.
Bingo. This is why 8 divisions will never be adopted, until the NHL expands to at least 40 teams.

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02-09-2013, 07:24 PM
  #439
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Bingo. This is why 8 divisions will never be adopted, until the NHL expands to at least 40 teams.
And it's why when they realize that 4 large 8-team Divisions have become a problem that then they'll have a hell of a time to try to do something about it.

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02-09-2013, 09:16 PM
  #440
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Teams that shouldn’t be in a Division with…
Anaheim:
The whole ETZ and the Whole CTZ
Los Angeles:
The Whole ETZ and the Whole CTZ
San Jose:
The Whole ETZ and the Whole CTZ
Vancouver:
The Whole ETZ and the Whole CTZ
Phoenix:
The Whole ETZ, plus Nashville, Winnipeg, Minnesota, Chicago, St Louis
Colorado:
The Whole ETZ
Calgary:
The Whole ETZ, plus Nashville, Dallas, St Louis, Chicago
Edmonton:
The Whole ETZ, plus Nashville, Dallas, St Louis, Chicago
Dallas:
The Whole PTZ, plus Edmonton, Calgary, Boston, Montreal, Ottawa, NY Rangers, NY Islanders, New Jersey, Philadelphia, Toronto, Buffalo, Washington
St Louis:
The Whole PTZ, plus Edmonton, Calgary, Phoenix
Chicago:
The Whole PTZ, plus Phoenix, Edmonton, Calgary, Florida, Tampa Bay
Minnesota:
The Whole PTZ, plus Florida, Tampa Bay, Phoenix, Boston
Winnipeg:
The Whole PTZ, plus Florida, Tampa Bay, Phoenix, Boston, Carolina, NY Islanders, NY Rangers, New Jersey, Philadelphia, Washington
Nashville:
The Whole PTZ, plus Edmonton, Calgary, Phoenix
Columbus:
The Whole PTZ and the Whole MTZ
Detroit:
The Whole PTZ and the Whole MTZ, plus Florida, Tampa Bay
Florida:
The Whole PTZ and the Whole MTZ, plus Winnipeg, Minnesota, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Buffalo, Detroit, Chicago
Tampa Bay:
The Whole PTZ and the Whole MTZ, plus Winnipeg, Minnesota, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Buffalo, Chicago, Detroit
Carolina:
The Whole PTZ and the Whole MTZ, plus Winnipeg
Washington:
The Whole PTZ and the Whole MTZ, Winnipeg, Dallas
Pittsburgh:
The Whole PTZ and the Whole MTZ
Philadelphia:
The Whole PTZ and the Whole MTZ, plus Dallas, Winnipeg
Buffalo:
The Whole PTZ and the Whole MTZ, plus Dallas, Florida, Tampa Bay
Toronto:
The Whole PTZ and the Whole MTZ, plus Dallas, Florida, Tampa Bay
Ottawa:
The Whole PTZ and the Whole MTZ, plus Dallas, Florida, Tampa Bay
Montreal:
The Whole PTZ and the Whole MTZ, plus Dallas, Florida, Tampa Bay
Boston:
The Whole PTZ and the Whole MTZ, plus Dallas, Winnipeg, Minnesota
NY Rangers:
The Whole PTZ and the Whole MTZ, plus Dallas, Winnipeg
NY Islanders:
The Whole PTZ and the Whole MTZ, plus Dallas, Winnipeg
New Jersey:
The Whole PTZ and the Whole MTZ, plus Dallas, Winnipeg


absolute minimum groupings, such as the following:
Group 1
The NYC area trio
Group 2
The LA area duo
Group 3
The Alberta duo
Group 4
The Florida duo
In all 4 cases, they are either part of the same metro area, or each other's closest and also from the same province or state.
The above condensed from post #416.

No one else has taken a shot at working with this, so I'll start by looking at those 12 teams which are most limited with respect to which teams they can logically geographically be aligned with:
Anaheim, Los Angeles, San Jose, Vancouver, Phoenix, Calgary, Edmonton, Colorado, Dallas, Florida, Tampa Bay, and Winnipeg.

Anaheim and Los Angeles have these options:
San Jose
Vancouver
Phoenix
Colorado
Calgary, Edmonton
(The same group of 8 teams for San Jose and Vancouver)
(Phoenix has also the same 8 plus Dallas)

Edmonton and Calgary have these options:
Colorado
Phoenix
Vancouver
Winnipeg
Minnesota
San Jose
Los Angeles, Anaheim

Florida and Tampa Bay have these options:
Carolina
Washington
Philadelphia
New Jersey, NY Rangers, NY Islanders
Boston
Pittsburgh
Columbus
Nashville
Dallas
St Louis

Colorado has these options:
Phoenix
Calgary, Edmonton
Dallas
Minnesota
Winnipeg
Anaheim, Los Angeles
St Louis
San Jose
Chicago
Nashville
Vancouver

Dallas has these options:
St Louis
Nashville
Chicago
Minnesota
Winnipeg
Colorado
Phoenix
Tampa Bay, Florida
Carolina
Columbus
Detroit
Pittsburgh

Winnipeg has these options:
Minnesota
Chicago
St Louis
Nashville
Dallas
Calgary, Edmonton
Colorado
Detroit
Toronto
Columbus
Buffalo
Ottawa
Montreal
Pittsburgh


Okay, so two more lists, a bit less limited...

Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, and Buffalo all have the same options:
Detroit
Pittsburgh
Boston
NY Rangers, NY Islanders, New Jersey
Philadelphia
Washington
Columbus
Carolina
Nashville
Chicago
St Louis
Minnesota
Winnipeg

Boston has these options:
NY Rangers, NY Islanders, New Jersey
Philadelphia
Montreal
Ottawa
Buffalo
Toronto
Pittsburgh
Washington
Detroit
Columbus
Carolina
Florida, Tampa Bay
Nashville
Chicago
St Louis


That's a start. I'll post that, and see if someone (or myself) take it from there. I think forming Divisions for those teams would pretty much decide the Divisions for the rest of the League.


Last edited by MoreOrr: 02-09-2013 at 09:22 PM.
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02-09-2013, 10:23 PM
  #441
Taro Tsujimoto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post
Lots of text
Decided to take a stab at it:

Eastern Conference

Atlantic Division

Boston
Montreal
New Jersey
NY Islanders
NY Rangers

Northeast Division

Buffalo
Ottawa
Philadelphia
Pittsburgh
Toronto

Southeast Division

Carolina
Columbus
Florida
Tampa Bay
Washington

Western Conference

Central Division

Chicago
Dallas
Detroit
Nashville
St. Louis

Mountain Division (renamed Northwest)

Calgary
Colorado
Edmonton
Minnesota
Winnipeg

Pacific Division

Anaheim
Los Angeles
Phoenix
San Jose
Vancouver

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02-10-2013, 11:01 AM
  #442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post
I couldn't resist, HugoSimon, I had to post:

3 Conference Format revisited:

Western ConferenceCentral ConferenceEastern Conference
PACIFICMIDWESTATLANTIC
VancouverDetroitMontreal
San JoseColumbusBoston
Los AngelesChicagoNY Rangers
AnaheimSt LouisNY Islanders
PhoenixDallasNew Jersey
NORTHWESTSOUTHEASTNORTHEAST
EdmontonWashingtonOttawa
CalgaryCarolinaToronto
ColoradoNashvilleBuffalo
WinnipegTampa BayPittsburgh
MinnesotaFloridaPhiladelphia

(Of course that Eastern Conference alignment will be chewed up and spit out; but you can align them as you wish.)

Regular Season Schedule:
24 games = 6 x 4
20 games = 4 x 5
40 games = 2 x 20
84 game total

Playoff Teams:
6 teams = Top team in each Division makes the Playoffs.
9 teams = The 3 teams with the next best records in each Conference make the Playoffs.
1 team = Final wildcard spot is awarded to the team with the next best record League-wide.
16-team Playoff

Playoff Seeding:
There would be 5 teams representing each Conference, with one Conference having 6 teams.
- For the 1st Round, within each Conference, the Top seeded team would be matched up against the Lowest seeded team within that Conference. The 2nd seed would match against the 2nd lowest...., and the two Conferences with 5 teams entering the Playoffs would have their 3rd place teams play each other.
- For the 2nd Round, two Conferences would still have 3 teams remaining and the other Conference would still have 2 teams remaining. Again, the middle seeded teams in the two Conferences with 3 remaining teams would play each other.
- For the 3rd, Conference Elimination, Round the four remaining teams from the 3 Conferences would play each other (one Conference still having two representatives that would play each other, assuring that Conference a Finals representative), while the result of the other matchup would effectively eliminate one Conference from competition,... thus producing the two Conference Champions.

- For the Final, as usual, the 2 Conference Champions meet.
Still trying to destroy the Flyers rivalries I see.



Most common sense alignment for the East is:

NE: MTL, OTT, TOR, BUF, CLB
ATL: BOS, NYR, NYI, NJD, PHI
SE: PIT, WSH, CAR, TBY, FLA


Last edited by MountainHawk: 02-10-2013 at 11:11 AM.
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02-10-2013, 11:17 AM
  #443
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post
The above condensed from post #416.

No one else has taken a shot at working with this, so I'll start by looking at those 12 teams which are most limited with respect to which teams they can logically geographically be aligned with:
Anaheim, Los Angeles, San Jose, Vancouver, Phoenix, Calgary, Edmonton, Colorado, Dallas, Florida, Tampa Bay, and Winnipeg.

Anaheim and Los Angeles have these options:
San Jose
Vancouver
Phoenix
Colorado
Calgary, Edmonton
(The same group of 8 teams for San Jose and Vancouver)
(Phoenix has also the same 8 plus Dallas)

Edmonton and Calgary have these options:
Colorado
Phoenix
Vancouver
Winnipeg
Minnesota
San Jose
Los Angeles, Anaheim

Florida and Tampa Bay have these options:
Carolina
Washington
Philadelphia
New Jersey, NY Rangers, NY Islanders
Boston
Pittsburgh
Columbus
Nashville
Dallas
St Louis

Colorado has these options:
Phoenix
Calgary, Edmonton
Dallas
Minnesota
Winnipeg
Anaheim, Los Angeles
St Louis
San Jose
Chicago
Nashville
Vancouver

Dallas has these options:
St Louis
Nashville
Chicago
Minnesota
Winnipeg
Colorado
Phoenix
Tampa Bay, Florida
Carolina
Columbus
Detroit
Pittsburgh

Winnipeg has these options:
Minnesota
Chicago
St Louis
Nashville
Dallas
Calgary, Edmonton
Colorado
Detroit
Toronto
Columbus
Buffalo
Ottawa
Montreal
Pittsburgh


Okay, so two more lists, a bit less limited...

Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, and Buffalo all have the same options:
Detroit
Pittsburgh
Boston
NY Rangers, NY Islanders, New Jersey
Philadelphia
Washington
Columbus
Carolina
Nashville
Chicago
St Louis
Minnesota
Winnipeg

Boston has these options:
NY Rangers, NY Islanders, New Jersey
Philadelphia
Montreal
Ottawa
Buffalo
Toronto
Pittsburgh
Washington
Detroit
Columbus
Carolina
Florida, Tampa Bay
Nashville
Chicago
St Louis


That's a start. I'll post that, and see if someone (or myself) take it from there. I think forming Divisions for those teams would pretty much decide the Divisions for the rest of the League.
So, to continue...
Without venturing directly into Eastern alignment, the formula used above really simplifies Western alignment, whether it be 6 Divisions or 4 Divisions.

For 6 Divisions, there's really only one option for the West:
PACIFIC
Vancouver, San Jose, Los Angeles, Anaheim, Phoenix
NORTHWEST
Edmonton, Calgary, Colorado, Winnipeg, Minnesota

The question then comes down to which team joins the East.

Truly, the relocation of the Thrashers to Winnipeg did more to simplify or better Western alignment, not make it worse. That in itself shouldn't be a reason to change from the 6-Division structure to a 4-Division one, not if Winnipeg actually helps to improve the 6-Division structure.
And as for Phoenix, if the Coyotes get relocated and that relocation is to Seattle or Portland, then again the 6-Division structure in the West is improved even further, because Vancouver would be made more content then in the Pacific Division.
It's only if Phoenix were to be relocated to Quebec City that Western alignment then still continues to be problematic.

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02-10-2013, 11:20 AM
  #444
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Still trying to destroy the Flyers rivalries I see.

Most common sense alignment for the East is:

NE: MTL, OTT, TOR, BUF, CLB
ATL: BOS, NYR, NYI, NJD, PHI
SE: PIT, WSH, CAR, TBY, FLA
Hey, MountainHawk, glad to see you around here again. I've missed you.

But I'm surprised that you went and suggested something that does the same thing that you complained about in the first line. I'd have figured that you'd suggest to just keep those two Eastern Divisions the way the currently are.

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02-10-2013, 11:22 AM
  #445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post
Hey, MountainHawk, glad to see you around here again. I've missed you.

But I'm surprised that you went and suggested something that does the same thing that you complained about in the first line.
I had a terrible start of 2012, then a baby daughter at the end, so wasn't around too much.

PHI-PIT can be sacrificed for the other 3. It's only really a rivalry for the 10 years or so after the Pens tank to get a superstar. ;-)

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02-10-2013, 11:35 AM
  #446
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Still trying to destroy the Flyers rivalries I see.



Most common sense alignment for the East is:

NE: MTL, OTT, TOR, BUF, CLB
ATL: BOS, NYR, NYI, NJD, PHI
SE: PIT, WSH, CAR, TBY, FLA
Splitting up Boston from Montreal and Pittsburgh from Philadelphia will be met with A LOT of resistance. For the east, I'd like to see this:

NE: Boston, Buffalo, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto
ATL: New Jersey, NY Islanders, NY Rangers, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh
SE: Carolina, Columbus, Florida, Tampa Bay, Washington

I know Columbus isn't in the southeast, but neither is Washington. I figure it's easier to put the Blue Jackets in the Southeast division than tinkering with the Northeast and Atlantic divisions.

As for the western conference:

CEN: Chicago, Dallas, Detroit, Nashville, St. Louis
NW: Calgary, Colorado, Edmonton, Minnesota, Winnipeg
PAC: Anaheim, Los Angeles, Phoenix, San Jose, Vancouver

This makes it easier on Dallas an Minnesota so that they don't have to travel two time zones to play any divisional foes.

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