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Game 10 | Detroit Red Wings vs. St. Louis Blues | 8:00 PM EST | FS-D (HD) ‎

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Old
02-08-2013, 06:18 AM
  #601
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Just got done reading through the Blues GDT. I thought this board was bad with it's doom and gloom, but we are pretty tame compared to them. One loss to us and most of their fans are ready to blow up the team. Reading through another team's GDT makes me realize how ridiculous some of our own posters sound.

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02-08-2013, 07:28 AM
  #602
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Originally Posted by Z40 View Post
Just got done reading through the Blues GDT. I thought this board was bad with it's doom and gloom, but we are pretty tame compared to them. One loss to us and most of their fans are ready to blow up the team. Reading through another team's GDT makes me realize how ridiculous some of our own posters sound.
Perspective is a funny thing.


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02-08-2013, 09:45 AM
  #603
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Mrazek!!!

Cleary is back, booyah!

Tatar looks sooo fast there. Or maybe the rest of the team is so god damn slow. He made so many smart plays. He def. should stay up.

Nice jinx thread on main board reg. bottom 6 scoring.

D wasn't stellar imo but we managed to survive.

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02-08-2013, 01:06 PM
  #604
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lol @ people acting like Cleary haters should be eating crow. 1 goal changes nothing, he is not a valuable enough to warrant being re-signed.

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Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
It's one game...

At the very least, Babcock can have a little confidence in Howard's backup now.
How was my post over reactive?

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02-08-2013, 01:09 PM
  #605
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lol @ people acting like Cleary haters should be eating crow. 1 goal changes nothing, he is not a valuable enough to warrant being re-signed.
Happened when Bertuzzi was gifted 2 goals against Minnesota, too. Will probably pop up once every 10 days-2 weeks when one of the goats has an alright game.

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02-08-2013, 01:30 PM
  #606
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Doubt he get more than the 1 one game thats automatic for a match penalty.
As far as I know the only automatic penalty for a Match call is missing the remainder of the game and an automatic review by the league.

If the league chooses not to add any more games he should be back Saturday against Edmonton. According to Ansar Khan, the league didn't even bother scheduling a hearing for him so he won't be suspended at all.

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02-08-2013, 05:05 PM
  #607
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Originally Posted by Z40 View Post
Just got done reading through the Blues GDT. I thought this board was bad with it's doom and gloom, but we are pretty tame compared to them. One loss to us and most of their fans are ready to blow up the team. Reading through another team's GDT makes me realize how ridiculous some of our own posters sound.
not just 1 loss

3-5 loss to DRW
1-6 loss to nashville
1-5 loss to DRW

STL was the best defensive team, and should be still, but they allowed 5 or 6 goals in 3 consecutive games, have been outshot in 2, and have not looked like the same hard working, physical pressure team as usual.

their goaltending has also been bad, and halak is injured.

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02-08-2013, 07:22 PM
  #608
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Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
not just 1 loss

3-5 loss to DRW
1-6 loss to nashville
1-5 loss to DRW

STL was the best defensive team, and should be still, but they allowed 5 or 6 goals in 3 consecutive games, have been outshot in 2, and have not looked like the same hard working, physical pressure team as usual.

their goaltending has also been bad, and halak is injured.
They are still giving least shots on goal, the Strong defence is there, but it's just Brian Elliot that fell down from the clouds. He was one of the most ridiculous overachievers at last season and now he's back at his own weak level. I think when they get Halak back, the Blues fill be just fine.

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02-08-2013, 08:07 PM
  #609
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Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
not just 1 loss

3-5 loss to DRW
1-6 loss to nashville
1-5 loss to DRW

STL was the best defensive team, and should be still, but they allowed 5 or 6 goals in 3 consecutive games, have been outshot in 2, and have not looked like the same hard working, physical pressure team as usual.

their goaltending has also been bad, and halak is injured.
One loss. Three losses. It's still an overreaction. Injuries happen. Teams run cold. Fans act like it's the end of the world. No need to fire the coach and blow up the team. You visit the board of any team, including this one, and you'll find the same melodramatics. It's fun to play armchair coach or GM, but people should really stop taking it so seriously, because realistically, they have no idea what they're talking about. Stick to being a level-headed fan.

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02-08-2013, 08:22 PM
  #610
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Originally Posted by Z40 View Post
One loss. Three losses. It's still an overreaction. Injuries happen. Teams run cold. Fans act like it's the end of the world. No need to fire the coach and blow up the team. You visit the board of any team, including this one, and you'll find the same melodramatics. It's fun to play armchair coach or GM, but people should really stop taking it so seriously, because realistically, they have no idea what they're talking about. Stick to being a level-headed fan.
I'm telling you man, I blame the simulators, fantasy hockey, and video games.

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02-08-2013, 08:35 PM
  #611
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I'm telling you man, I blame the simulators, fantasy hockey, and video games.
You might have a point. I play all of the EA Sports NHL games and I think some people actually believe Be A GM mode is like real life.

It's fun hypothetically calling all the shots, but sometimes, fans need to take a step back and breathe, and remember what it was like to just enjoy watching your team play the game of hockey.

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02-08-2013, 08:50 PM
  #612
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Originally Posted by Z40 View Post
You might have a point. I play all of the EA Sports NHL games and I think some people actually believe Be A GM mode is like real life.

It's fun hypothetically calling all the shots, but sometimes, fans need to take a step back and breathe, and remember what it was like to just enjoy watching your team play the game of hockey.
It's even more fun if they win. So we want our team to win. So we want our management to make good decisions so our team wins more.

Is that hard to follow?

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02-08-2013, 08:53 PM
  #613
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Originally Posted by Bench View Post
I'm telling you man, I blame the simulators, fantasy hockey, and video games.
Traded Iginla for a 2nd round pick and some B level prospect.

After that i traded for Alferdsson for a 2nd and another B grade prospect.

I felt like i would make Ken Holland proud by acquiring a bunch of players who were alive to see the Declaration of Independence signed.

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02-08-2013, 08:58 PM
  #614
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Originally Posted by Z40 View Post
You might have a point. I play all of the EA Sports NHL games and I think some people actually believe Be A GM mode is like real life.

It's fun hypothetically calling all the shots, but sometimes, fans need to take a step back and breathe, and remember what it was like to just enjoy watching your team play the game of hockey.
I think the biggest thing we forget is that they are PEOPLE. Like honest to goodness people. And you know how sometimes you don't get along with a guy at work? Yeah, well, that guy might be your 30 goal scorer but if you're always fighting about how to get work done, you're not going to get that TPS report filed on time or get a hat trick.

Attitude and personality count for A LOT. NHL general managers know this, which is why they drill prospects with interviews before the draft. Teams also hire psychologists to profile players. I wouldn't ask Hannibal Lecter who was killing young girls, I'd ask who to draft.

And it's all information that we're left in the dark about. Totally blind. But we swing away from the keyboard like we're in any position of authority because we have Center Ice and access to CORSI stats. Yeesh.

Despite what people say about this current generation of Red Wings teams, they are still entertaining as hell to watch. Great hockey. Creativity and elite playmaking. Zetterberg and Datsyuk are a joy to watch, an absolute joy. I have quite a bit of fun when I'm not sifting through how terrible everybody is and how Dan Cleary is a waste of human space. Personality is part of what makes sport great. The figures that make up the team mean something.

Ravens fans might be happy they just won a Super Bowl, but I'd feel pretty hollow if it was murderer (oh sorry, ALLEGEDLY) Ray Lewis leading my team to victory. Sure, you won, but the guy is a piece of garbage. Not the Dan Cleary type, the real person type. Does that matter? To me. Because sports are entertainment, not business. And I don't get a Cup ring when the Wings win, oddly enough. So it's more important I have a good time than put reproduction championship banners in my garage.

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02-08-2013, 09:25 PM
  #615
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Originally Posted by Z40 View Post
One loss. Three losses. It's still an overreaction. Injuries happen. Teams run cold. Fans act like it's the end of the world. No need to fire the coach and blow up the team. You visit the board of any team, including this one, and you'll find the same melodramatics. It's fun to play armchair coach or GM, but people should really stop taking it so seriously, because realistically, they have no idea what they're talking about. Stick to being a level-headed fan.
It's hard to believe someone could be so condescending about something while being so wrong, but you've pulled it off. Bravo.

Instant reactions are always going to to lack perspective when you look back at them later.

But if you think the Danny Clearly hate is based on 8 games, then you're just being obtuse.

Take a look at the Red Wings trend line.
If you're a Red Wings fan who wants your team to be a cup contender, then you don't like that trend.
If you look at Holland's roster philosophies, both stated and practiced, you can understand why this team is where it is and is going where its going.

Criticism, positive and negative, isn't *****ing. It's criticism.

If that offends you, get the **** off the internet, junior


Last edited by RedWingsNow*: 02-08-2013 at 09:36 PM.
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02-08-2013, 09:32 PM
  #616
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Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
It's hard to believe someone could be so condescending about something while being so wrong, but you've pulled it off. Bravo.

Instant reactions are always to to lack perspective.

But if you think the Danny Clearly hate is based on 8 games, then you're just being obtuse.

Take a look at the Red Wings trend line.
If you're a Red Wings fan who wants your team to be a cup contender, then you don't like that trend.
If you look at Holland's roster philosophies, both stated and practiced, you can see understand why this team is where it is and is going where its going.

Criticism, positive and negative, isn't *****ing. It's criticism.

If that offends you, get the **** off the internet, junior
Hey, bro.

If you don't revere Holland and Babcock as infallible, you're not a real fan and you should cheer for another team. If you ever say the team has a problem, or a player isn't good enough, you're not a real fan. Go cheer for another team.

Don't you understand hockey?

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02-08-2013, 09:34 PM
  #617
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I think the biggest thing we forget is that they are PEOPLE. Like honest to goodness people. And you know how sometimes you don't get along with a guy at work? Yeah, well, that guy might be your 30 goal scorer but if you're always fighting about how to get work done, you're not going to get that TPS report filed on time or get a hat trick.

Attitude and personality count for A LOT. NHL general managers know this, which is why they drill prospects with interviews before the draft. Teams also hire psychologists to profile players. I wouldn't ask Hannibal Lecter who was killing young girls, I'd ask who to draft.

And it's all information that we're left in the dark about. Totally blind. But we swing away from the keyboard like we're in any position of authority because we have Center Ice and access to CORSI stats. Yeesh.

Despite what people say about this current generation of Red Wings teams, they are still entertaining as hell to watch. Great hockey. Creativity and elite playmaking. Zetterberg and Datsyuk are a joy to watch, an absolute joy. I have quite a bit of fun when I'm not sifting through how terrible everybody is and how Dan Cleary is a waste of human space. Personality is part of what makes sport great. The figures that make up the team mean something.

Ravens fans might be happy they just won a Super Bowl, but I'd feel pretty hollow if it was murderer (oh sorry, ALLEGEDLY) Ray Lewis leading my team to victory. Sure, you won, but the guy is a piece of garbage. Not the Dan Cleary type, the real person type. Does that matter? To me. Because sports are entertainment, not business. And I don't get a Cup ring when the Wings win, oddly enough. So it's more important I have a good time than put reproduction championship banners in my garage.
You should cry on Malik's shoulder.

Maybe HFboards should be like ******'s hockey board, where people post stupid memes and pictures of themselves with hockey players...

Great stuff.

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02-08-2013, 09:35 PM
  #618
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Originally Posted by Bench View Post
I think the biggest thing we forget is that they are PEOPLE. Like honest to goodness people. And you know how sometimes you don't get along with a guy at work? Yeah, well, that guy might be your 30 goal scorer but if you're always fighting about how to get work done, you're not going to get that TPS report filed on time or get a hat trick.

Attitude and personality count for A LOT. NHL general managers know this, which is why they drill prospects with interviews before the draft. Teams also hire psychologists to profile players. I wouldn't ask Hannibal Lecter who was killing young girls, I'd ask who to draft.

And it's all information that we're left in the dark about. Totally blind. But we swing away from the keyboard like we're in any position of authority because we have Center Ice and access to CORSI stats. Yeesh.

Despite what people say about this current generation of Red Wings teams, they are still entertaining as hell to watch. Great hockey. Creativity and elite playmaking. Zetterberg and Datsyuk are a joy to watch, an absolute joy. I have quite a bit of fun when I'm not sifting through how terrible everybody is and how Dan Cleary is a waste of human space. Personality is part of what makes sport great. The figures that make up the team mean something.

Ravens fans might be happy they just won a Super Bowl, but I'd feel pretty hollow if it was murderer (oh sorry, ALLEGEDLY) Ray Lewis leading my team to victory. Sure, you won, but the guy is a piece of garbage. Not the Dan Cleary type, the real person type. Does that matter? To me. Because sports are entertainment, not business. And I don't get a Cup ring when the Wings win, oddly enough. So it's more important I have a good time than put reproduction championship banners in my garage.


I want our team to win every game just like any other fan. There are moves that I would make. I think the old guys need to be put down too. But, in the end, I realize our management probably knows what they're doing a little better than I do. I'll just continue to enjoy watching the games.

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02-08-2013, 09:46 PM
  #619
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Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
It's hard to believe someone could be so condescending about something while being so wrong, but you've pulled it off. Bravo.

Instant reactions are always going to to lack perspective when you look back at them later.

But if you think the Danny Clearly hate is based on 8 games, then you're just being obtuse.

Take a look at the Red Wings trend line.
If you're a Red Wings fan who wants your team to be a cup contender, then you don't like that trend.
If you look at Holland's roster philosophies, both stated and practiced, you can understand why this team is where it is and is going where its going.

Criticism, positive and negative, isn't *****ing. It's criticism.

If that offends you, get the **** off the internet, junior
I'm not offended. But I think you have proven my point quite nicely.

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Originally Posted by Flowah View Post
Hey, bro.

If you don't revere Holland and Babcock as infallible, you're not a real fan and you should cheer for another team. If you ever say the team has a problem, or a player isn't good enough, you're not a real fan. Go cheer for another team.

Don't you understand hockey?
Yes. But not as well as Ken Holland and Mike Babcock. If you think that implies that I believe they are infallible, then you are making things up along with your imaginary superfan.

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02-08-2013, 10:38 PM
  #620
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I'm not offended. But I think you have proven my point quite nicely.


I haven't proven your point.
Your point is that we're all too critical and we should all trust management.
Your point is that anyone who is critical of the team should just sit back, relax, turn off their brain and be entertained.

Which is fine. So why come to a message board where people post "THOUGHTS" if you just want to turn off your brain and be entertained?

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02-08-2013, 11:50 PM
  #621
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Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
You should cry on Malik's shoulder.

Maybe HFboards should be like ******'s hockey board, where people post stupid memes and pictures of themselves with hockey players...

Great stuff.
Is that really what you weened?

I'll keep it short. I don't like how everybody pretends like they have all the answers. It's ridiculous. There needs to be some admission of fallibility when you're discussing these topics. The rate at which people speak with authority on these matters is what annoys me.

Hockey discussion is encouraged and loved. So you've completely missed my point.

And as a poster that responds to a high volume of my posts directly, either you're admitting I post a lot about hockey, or you're admitting you respond to people that don't. If it's the former, then I think you know I'm not advocating what you suggested. If it's the latter, well, maybe you should put me back on your ignore list to control yourself.

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02-08-2013, 11:53 PM
  #622
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I haven't proven your point.
Your point is that we're all too critical and we should all trust management.
Your point is that anyone who is critical of the team should just sit back, relax, turn off their brain and be entertained.

Which is fine. So why come to a message board where people post "THOUGHTS" if you just want to turn off your brain and be entertained?
Because I enjoy discussing the Wings with fellow fans, just like you. We're all critical, at times. I'm simply saying that some of us get a little carried away and maybe taking a breather would be healthy.

You could always stroll on over to any other team's board and see that they all have the same problems as us. It's a wonder how any team wins the Stanley Cup considering how awful they all are.

I'm surprised this thread is still open.

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02-09-2013, 12:02 AM
  #623
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Yes. But not as well as Ken Holland and Mike Babcock. If you think that implies that I believe they are infallible, then you are making things up along with your imaginary superfan.
It's a convenient straw man that avoids the heart of the conversation. If you're labeled as a mindless homer, then it avoids the real issue that their criticism is also not infallible and open to debate.

Certainly if Ken Holland's every move can be dissected with laser scalpel precision, then so can the criticisms. Of course, the fact that you questioned the criticism then means you want people to turn off their brains. Ah. So unless you think one way, you're mindless.

What was I saying about people speaking with such authority? Oh right. It's stupid. And I say so, quite ironically, with authority.

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02-09-2013, 01:01 AM
  #624
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Yes. But not as well as Ken Holland and Mike Babcock. If you think that implies that I believe they are infallible, then you are making things up along with your imaginary superfan.
I think that with our record and the trend of the Wing's performances over hundreds of games for the past three seasons, anyone saying that we need to give continued deference to Babcock and Holland is completely delusional. And yes, a complete homer. The PP is and has been horrible. The PK has been decent to horrible. The team continues on a downward slide.

And yet, when people bring up these things, they're told to just defer to Holland and Babcock? Why? What warrants that? The only thing seems to be an appeal to authority. Which frankly, doesn't fly for me. There's nothing to say they are objectively better at this than any of us. This isn't like being a doctor where you need years of education and specialized knowledge that can't be attained some other way. Many of us, myself included, have played and watched hockey at levels for decades. I tend to know exactly what's going on when I'm watching a hockey game. I can see who's making mistakes and who is playing well.

When I watch an older 35+ player continually making bad plays and being unproductive, being given ice time over talented youngsters who have proven themselves many times over in the AHL, well, it causes headscratching.

When I voice that, don't condescend and tell me to calm down and just "turn my brain off and be entertained." It's like telling people to just let the politicians do their thing. No. I see my team (country) going a certain direction. I'd like my team (country) to go this way. Okay, so they've been in hockey (politics) for 20 years. Does that make them someone above question? Does that make my opinion less valid, even if I've been a rabid fan/participant of hockey (politics) for nearly my entire life? I want my team (country) to do well every year. And when it doesn't, I want there to be changes.

Stop telling me to stop questioning that. I'm going to voice my concerns as I please. If you wanted mindless cheerleading, you should probably have only imaginary friends that never disagree with you.

Quote:
You could always stroll on over to any other team's board and see that they all have the same problems as us. It's a wonder how any team wins the Stanley Cup considering how awful they all are.
If I had one pet peeve with people everywhere, it's their terrible logic. Here, let me correct you.

1. Every fan base is going to have people who are unsatisfied. Until the Cup is won. So pretty much, 30 teams are going to have fans that aren't happy, until only 29 teams have that. Wait a few months and it goes back to 30.

2. That does not equate every fan base. Not every fan base is wrong. Every top team in the league will have a group of fans who are doomsdayers, that does not make fans of the Islanders, Oilers, or other bottom dwellers who are doomsdayers, wrong.

3. It does not mean every team has the same problems. Some teams are flat out better than other teams. This cannot be denied. If you're denying it, there's simply no reasoning with you.

In short, the Wings have had a very clear trajectory for the past three years, and it is a downward one. Fans pointing this out are making a pretty objective observation and cannot be equated to fans of other teams that have no perspective. The Blues lost three games in a row and some of the crowd is in panic mode. That does not make criticism of what has been going on with the Wings the same as the Blue's reaction.

The Red Wings have clear, quantifiable, objective standards by which you can track their slide. Their PK, their PP, their finishes in the post season, their retirements and new signings. I mean, c'mon, Lidstrom is irreplaceable, even an older Lidstrom. No one we have on our backend is even close to replacing him. That's about as objective as it gets in terms of comparing players. And then there are the plain and simple numbers and the finishes. Bounced in 5 by Nashville, a team we used to regularly pass through on our way to the later rounds.

And then there is the subjective. I think anyone who has watched the majority of the team's games for the past 5 years cannot say with an honest heart, that the team has gotten better. This team is now the weakest it's been since 2008. No doubt.


Last edited by Flowah: 02-09-2013 at 01:10 AM.
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02-09-2013, 01:12 AM
  #625
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Fans overreact all the time. It has been like that since Jesus killed the dinosaurs, and it will continue that way when aliens kill Jesus. It's annoying, but there's no sense getting at arms about it.

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