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Will Price be the starter in Sochi?

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Old
02-08-2013, 10:05 PM
  #26
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
I wouldn't trade Price for any goalie in the league either, I think he's at least as good as the other elites in the league and is probably the most complete goalie in the league when you factor in his size and puck handling.

However, fair or not, few people besides Habs fans are going to say he's the best in the league right now. He doesn't play for as good of a team as some of his competition, but the fact is until his team starts winning regularly, Price will have his doubters. Guys like Luongo and Ward are more "established" than Price, even if he's better.

And I really don't want to hear the term generational talent again. Patrick Roy was a generational talent, let's be fair, even the biggest Price fanboy on the planet couldn't equate him with Roy right now.
I don't see him as a generational talent either. I think he'll prove to be the best in the league but the margin of difference between him vs. the next best won't be a wide chasm. He's already right at the top of the list as far as I'm concerned.

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02-08-2013, 10:14 PM
  #27
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I can see it now viezna, cup and gold medal all in one year next year for price

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02-08-2013, 10:48 PM
  #28
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I can see it now viezna, cup and gold medal all in one year next year for price
He may get the Vezina this year if he keeps playing this way. It's safe to say Carey Price has entered his prime.

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02-08-2013, 11:07 PM
  #29
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He is definitely the clear favourite at this point. Brodeur is too old, Ward is too inconsistent and Luongo is a choker. Luongo may have won gold previously but he looked shaky as **** in doing so. I remember reading comments from a Canadian player who said that Luongo was ridiculously nervous and his teammates were concerned about it. This certainly explains his history of choking in big games. It is no surprise that he is doing well now as all of the pressure is off of him as he was expected to be a backup and is now the underdog.

Price is the complete package of goaltending skill, puckhandling and supreme confidence.

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02-08-2013, 11:14 PM
  #30
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Price, Luongo and one of Ward or Fleury will be going to Sochi.

Americans have a pretty nice looking trio of Quick, Miller and Schneider.

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02-08-2013, 11:17 PM
  #31
coolasprICE
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So some of you have confirmed:

1. Wouldn't trade him for NO other goalie in the NHL
2. Looks to be likely starter for team canada
3. He's not even in his prime, which suggests we still haven't seen his best


Just because goalies today are a lot better than they were during Roy's prime doesn't mean that Carey can't be considered a generational talent. It's relative to the era.

How else can a goalie become a generational talent? Or have we come to the point where generational goalies are extinct?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I don't see him as a generational talent either. I think he'll prove to be the best in the league but the margin of difference between him vs. the next best won't be a wide chasm. He's already right at the top of the list as far as I'm concerned.
Do we really need to compare the starting goalies of 1993 versus 2013? The ''difference'' argument doesn't work as it's 2 different eras. Generational talent needs to be adjusted as the sport ages and parity among top players increases.

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02-08-2013, 11:42 PM
  #32
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No doubt in my mind.. The question should be.. will PK Subban be joining him on the Blue Line??? He's got a shot... especially if he tones it down a bit and his production keeps rising!

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02-09-2013, 12:19 AM
  #33
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I don't know man... Reimer is elite too...

Anything can happen, Luongo and Price will be fighting to be starter from my point of view.
I have a feeling Ward may come in and mix things up, Brodeur, if he is still playing next year may get some consideration as well.
There's still plenty of time for something to happen but I do hope Price gets it and plays great.

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02-09-2013, 12:24 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by thewall View Post
No doubt in my mind.. The question should be.. will PK Subban be joining him on the Blue Line??? He's got a shot... especially if he tones it down a bit and his production keeps rising!
PK has a great chance! It's not in the bag, but if he keeps progressing, it'll be his job to lose. After Keith, Doughty, Weber and Seabrook there will be jobs opened for the likes of PK, Staal, Pietrangelo, Letang... Am I missing anyone?

Given that list, I love his chances!

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02-09-2013, 01:30 AM
  #35
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If the coach is smart, he'll start him in the games that matter.

First game starter seems more of a symbolic gesture, so I would think Luongo.

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02-09-2013, 02:07 AM
  #36
Estimated_Prophet
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Originally Posted by jwolf View Post
PK has a great chance! It's not in the bag, but if he keeps progressing, it'll be his job to lose. After Keith, Doughty, Weber and Seabrook there will be jobs opened for the likes of PK, Staal, Pietrangelo, Letang... Am I missing anyone?

Given that list, I love his chances!
He is a somewhat of a longshot to make the team. As of right now Doughty, Keith, Weber, Pietrangelo and Letang are absolute locks. That leaves 1 spot for Seabrook, Staal, Myers, Girardi, Boyle, Burns and Subban. I personally think that spot will be between Seabrook, Girardi and Staal. Team Canada doesn't have a shortage of offensively gifted d-men so they will be looking for a stay at home/penalty killer/shot blocker who can still be contribute offensively. These 3 fit the bill perfectly as Subban is still too much of a gambler to be considered for this role.

His only chance will be an injury to one or more of the players that I mentioned as locks.

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02-09-2013, 02:20 AM
  #37
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he should be, but i'd bet against it. never underestimate hockey canada's ability to **** up

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02-09-2013, 02:35 AM
  #38
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Well it's either him or Luongo but I'd bet Price will get the start.

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02-09-2013, 03:33 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
American.



I love Price and all, but saying things like this is kind of embarrassing.
There is nothing embarrassing in saying this, Price has an exceptional package, ask GMs in the league who they would pick in net to start a franchise and at least 80% of them will name Price.. He is technically basically flawless.

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Originally Posted by Alexdaman View Post
Well it's either him or Luongo but I'd bet Price will get the start.
You and the ones naming Luongo probably dont have the chance to see him much, thats at least one very bad goal per game, he is slow and pretty weak mentally.. The only logic option at this point is Price..

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02-09-2013, 03:38 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
Price looks like he's developing into a generational goalie... Name me 1 goalie in the NHL you would trade him straight up for?
Age aside, Rinne.

Quote:
Originally Posted by holyhabs87 View Post
Luongo won last time. He will start unless his play really declines. Price will be backup.
This is how I see it. As much as I love Price, I can't see him starting off as the number one. That's Luongo's position to lose.

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02-09-2013, 04:15 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by NewHabsEra View Post

You and the ones naming Luongo probably dont have the chance to see him much, thats at least one very bad goal per game, he is slow and pretty weak mentally.. The only logic option at this point is Price..
Well Luongo is currently leading Price in GAA and SV%. I still think Price may get it though.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/statshome.htm...nav-sts-league


Last edited by Alexdaman: 02-09-2013 at 04:23 AM.
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02-09-2013, 05:05 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Alexdaman View Post
Well Luongo is currently leading Price in GAA and SV%. I still think Price may get it though.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/statshome.htm...nav-sts-league
He is playing better lately sharing the job with Schneider but everyone who watched Luongo in the last couple of years is aware that he isnt an elite goaltender anymore, he is lucky to play for the Nucks cause he would get exposed big time with an average team in front of him.. He only played 6 games this year and has only 3 wins, lets wait and see, the reality will hit him soon enough.. If team Canada wants the best goaltender in net, they will pick Price even if he didnt prove much yet and has less experience than Luongo or Brodeur..Just like Finland wont take Kiprusoft over Rinne..


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02-09-2013, 05:35 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
So some of you have confirmed:

1. Wouldn't trade him for NO other goalie in the NHL
2. Looks to be likely starter for team canada
3. He's not even in his prime, which suggests we still haven't seen his best


Just because goalies today are a lot better than they were during Roy's prime doesn't mean that Carey can't be considered a generational talent. It's relative to the era.

How else can a goalie become a generational talent? Or have we come to the point where generational goalies are extinct?




Do we really need to compare the starting goalies of 1993 versus 2013? The ''difference'' argument doesn't work as it's 2 different eras. Generational talent needs to be adjusted as the sport ages and parity among top players increases.
It really depends on what the term generational talent means.

How many current players would you say are generational talents? I'd say:

current generational talents:
Sidney Crosby
Evgeni Malkin
Zdeno Chara

recent generational talents:
Nicklas Lidstrom
Scott Niedermeyer
Joe Sakic

failed generational talents:
Alexander Ovechkin, ate too many doughnuts.
Chris Pronger, career cut short at 35 due to concussions, would have been one had he led the Flyers to a cup.
Joe Thornton, had he not spent a decade choking in the playoffs he would be the Crosby of the western conference.

Potential generational talents:
This list is really huge, too long to write down.

Basically, for Price to become a generational talent, he needs to play this well for 8 or 9 of the next 10 years, and he needs to win 1 or 2 cups. He has the potential to become one, to establish himself as one, but right now he's in the same boat as Steven Stamkos, Alex Pietrangelo, and John Tavares.

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02-09-2013, 05:58 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
It really depends on what the term generational talent means.

How many current players would you say are generational talents? I'd say:

current generational talents:
Sidney Crosby
Evgeni Malkin
Zdeno Chara

recent generational talents:
Nicklas Lidstrom
Scott Niedermeyer
Joe Sakic

failed generational talents:
Alexander Ovechkin, ate too many doughnuts.
Chris Pronger, career cut short at 35 due to concussions, would have been one had he led the Flyers to a cup.
Joe Thornton, had he not spent a decade choking in the playoffs he would be the Crosby of the western conference.

Potential generational talents:
This list is really huge, too long to write down.

Basically, for Price to become a generational talent, he needs to play this well for 8 or 9 of the next 10 years, and he needs to win 1 or 2 cups. He has the potential to become one, to establish himself as one, but right now he's in the same boat as Steven Stamkos, Alex Pietrangelo, and John Tavares.
Just out of curiosity, why is Chara a generational talent and Pronger a failed one? Pronger had a better career and anyway, seems like if you'd include one you'd have to the other.

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02-09-2013, 06:17 AM
  #45
DAChampion
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Originally Posted by fantasybaseballchamp View Post
Just out of curiosity, why is Chara a generational talent and Pronger a failed one? Pronger had a better career and anyway, seems like if you'd include one you'd have to the other.
It's very likely that Chara will eventually close the 151 game on Pronger.

Both have won a cup, but Chara won one as a captain and as the leader, Pronger won his as the first officer to captain Niedermeyer.

I may be suffering from a northeast division bias, as I get the impression that Chara is a generational player in that he redefines the game. He indirectly makes a lot of goons around the NHL irrelevant, not by fighting them directly though he sometimes does, but because the rest of his team will fight them more, and then you need other goons to fight those goons, etc. There's no denying that the entire northeast division has added a lot of grit in the past two years. Having reverberations on other lineups is a good criteria for a generational player.

It's a fair point though. Pronger has two cup finals (game 7 finals!) with Edmonton and Philadelphia to go with his cup win in Anaheim, and he has a whopping 230 points of additional offensive production on Chara. 1 or 2 more lucky bounces in Edmonton-Carolina 2006 and Philadelphia-Chicago 2010 and this isn't a discussion: Chris Pronger would arguably be on par with Bobby Orr and Nicklas Lidstrom.

Given all that, I'm not going to argue against somebody who thinks Pronger is a generational talent.

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02-09-2013, 06:23 AM
  #46
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None of the guys listed are generational talents except Lidstrom. Crosby perhaps, but he's been too hurt to lump into this category. Superstars != generational talents.

guys like Sakic were near the top for a long time, but never separated from the pack in any given year.

Lemieux, Gretzky, Yzerman, Bourque, Lids, Roy, Hasek, maybe crosby. Those are generational talents. Everyone who is very good is not a generational talent.

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02-09-2013, 06:31 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
Superstars != generational talents.
Yes I know and there are a number of superstars I didn't mention such as Lundqvist, Giroux, Stamkos, Tavares, Getlzlaf, E. Staal, Iginla, Jagr, Kovalchuk... though some of these are potentials and Jagr is debateable.

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02-09-2013, 06:48 AM
  #48
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Just out of curiosity, why is Chara a generational talent and Pronger a failed one? Pronger had a better career and anyway, seems like if you'd include one you'd have to the other.
Exactly!

He also listed Sakic and Niedermayer who are not generational talents. They were both great but not generational.

How Jagr gets left off of his list is also mindboggling. Lindros was also a generational talent who's career was cut short due to injuries. A generational talent is a player who is better than the other superstars and is virtually an unstoppable force at the height of their career.

Most recent generational talents IMO

Crosby
Malkin
Lidstrom
Jagr
Lindros
Bourque
Lemieux
Gretzky

Yzerman, Forsberg, Sakic, Hull, Selanne, Coffey, Leetch, Pronger, MacInnis, Niedermayer and Chara are all consistent superstars/stars but are not generational imo.

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02-09-2013, 06:50 AM
  #49
habsfanatics
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Yes I know and there are a number of superstars I didn't mention such as Lundqvist, Giroux, Stamkos, Tavares, Getlzlaf, E. Staal, Iginla, Jagr, Kovalchuk... though some of these are potentials and Jagr is debateable.
Funny some of the names you posted and then say Jagr is debatable. There is nothing debatable about Jagr, he was unquestionably a generational talent, he's an old man now, but he's in the top 5 of offensive players of all time. I forgot him on my own list, but there is nothing debatable there.

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1999-00 NHL Art Ross Trophy
1999-00 NHL Lester B. Pearson Trophy
2000-01 NHL Art Ross Trophy
2005-06 NHL Lester B. Pearson Trophy

He was the undisputed king for 7 to 10 years. 5 Art Ross trophies, 3 lesters and a hart. If it wasn't for him losing seasons to lockouts and leaving for the KHL he would be the 2nd highest scorer in NHL history. Zero of the players you have listed have a track record close to Jagr other than Lids.

Crosby/Malkin have their work cut out for them to ever accomplish what Jagr has done. It's doubtful either of them will ever surpass Jagr.

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02-09-2013, 06:56 AM
  #50
Estimated_Prophet
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
Funny some of the names you posted and then say Jagr is debatable. There is nothing debatable about Jagr, he was unquestionably a generational talent, he's an old man now, but he's in the top 5 of offensive players of all time. I forgot him on my own list, but there is nothing debatable there.

1994-95 NHL Art Ross Trophy
1997-98 NHL Art Ross Trophy
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1998-99 NHL Hart Memorial Trophy
1998-99 NHL Lester B. Pearson Trophy
1999-00 NHL Art Ross Trophy
1999-00 NHL Lester B. Pearson Trophy
2000-01 NHL Art Ross Trophy
2005-06 NHL Lester B. Pearson Trophy

He was the undisputed king for 7 to 10 years. 5 Art Ross trophies, 3 lesters and a hart. If it wasn't for him losing seasons to lockouts and leaving for the KHL he would be the 2nd highest scorer in NHL history. Zero of the players you have listed have a track record close to Jagr other than Lids.

Crosby/Malkin have their work cut out for them to ever accomplish what Jagr has done. It's doubtful either of them will ever surpass Jagr.
If Jagr isn't a generational talent then I fear we may never see another one again.

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