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Pens eyeing Kulemin

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Old
02-08-2013, 11:05 PM
  #926
Stephen
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Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
The Pens would be looking for a young long term solution like Neal is. Understanding that you have to pay, but if you are going to use those assets use them wisely. They do not have so much depth that they can waste them.
Who isn't looking for a young long term solution?

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02-08-2013, 11:07 PM
  #927
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Kulie is a funny player on HF. He is nearly worthless yet his name comes up in a thread from opposing fans almost every day.

And its not that Leaf fans think his value is super high its just that we aren't looking to trade him. If someone wants the player we love and arent looking to trade they will have to over pay. Maybe we are asking for too much for him but if someone doesn't want to match that price we will be happy to keep the player we didn't want to trade in the first place.

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02-08-2013, 11:15 PM
  #928
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Originally Posted by Cyris View Post
Kulie is a funny player on HF. He is nearly worthless yet his name comes up in a thread from opposing fans almost every day.

And its not that Leaf fans think his value is super high its just that we aren't looking to trade him. If someone wants the player we love and arent looking to trade they will have to over pay. Maybe we are asking for too much for him but if someone doesn't want to match that price we will be happy to keep the player we didn't want to trade in the first place.
Yeah but to be fair the Penguins could use him, so he should come at a price that isn't inconvenient for them...

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02-08-2013, 11:17 PM
  #929
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
Yeah but to be fair the Penguins could use him, so he should come at a price that isn't inconvenient for them...
Like what, for instance?

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02-08-2013, 11:30 PM
  #930
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
Who isn't looking for a young long term solution?
Thing is, losing a potential 40pt defenseman (when the team had another option if they were to lose him, like Letang) for a consistent 20 goal scorer, made sense.

Trading potential and 1sts for a guy that scored more than 20 once in his 5yr career, doesn't.

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02-08-2013, 11:35 PM
  #931
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyris View Post
Kulie is a funny player on HF. He is nearly worthless yet his name comes up in a thread from opposing fans almost every day.

And its not that Leaf fans think his value is super high its just that we aren't looking to trade him. If someone wants the player we love and arent looking to trade they will have to over pay. Maybe we are asking for too much for him but if someone doesn't want to match that price we will be happy to keep the player we didn't want to trade in the first place.
And that's the problem with threads like this. We're actually discussing assets as the NHL Teams would, you guys are taking it personal because as you put it, it's about a guy you love.

Sid & Army were pals, didn't stop Ray from moving him in a heart beat.

The type of return you guys think Kulemin is worth, is the type of return the Penguins pretty much got for Jordan Staal.

There is no way in hell, that Nik Kulemin was ever on the same talent level as Jordan Staal is on or was on at any point in his career and Jordan faced tough competition, 3rd line minutes, etc.

Kulemin needs a change of scenery, but hey, if you want to see the kid be this for his entire career when he could be capable of more, so be it. Whether your GM feels the same way, will be determined soon. Generally, if you are giving a guy that is a 5yr veteran and a one time 30 goal scorer top 6 minutes and he continues to struggle 2yrs in a row, you move him before his value drops even further.

The problem Leafs fans are having in this thread, by most of the responses I am seeing, is that they can't seem to understand that teams are not going to give up those kinds of assets for an inconsistent goal scorer like Kulemin.

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02-08-2013, 11:40 PM
  #932
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Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
Kulemin needs a change of scenery, but hey, if you want to see the kid be this for his entire career when he could be capable of more, so be it.
You are breaking my heart. How disingenuous can you possibly be? It's okay, because this really made me smile. Oh, and by the way, the answer is still no. Don't you guys get embarrassed at some point?

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02-08-2013, 11:47 PM
  #933
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You are breaking my heart. How disingenuous can you possibly be? It's okay, because this really made me smile. Oh, and by the way, the answer is still no. Don't you guys get embarrassed at some point?
This is apparently a response here, um ok?

He came back down to reality last year after he scored his 30 goals, which helps prove the whole "it was an anomaly, not the sign of things to come" case.

You can keep him for all I care, Pens fans didn't start the thread. I'm content with what the Pens have and would rather they kept their top 3 picks and their d prospects unless it was for a legit top 6 winger, of which he is not.

I mean if scoring 20+ once makes you a legit scorer then Pascal Dupuis is even more legit, I'd even wager, 2 legit 2 quit.

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02-09-2013, 12:52 AM
  #934
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Pens will sign him after next season.

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02-09-2013, 12:55 AM
  #935
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Pens will sign him after next season.
Oh, great. Good to know. Now will you guys end the thread.

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02-09-2013, 01:09 AM
  #936
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield View Post
And yet when proposed with offers including a 1st + + , you've got a number of passersby who say that's not enough for our "3rd liner".

You can also mine pages about how supplementary last season's 6th best point getter is to our club...Or how washed up Kadri was...Or how it was a mistake to bring up Frattin because he'd never score at the NHL level...Or that Reimer was done in the NHL...

Yup. Four pages of some of the league's largest and most ravenous and at times frivolous fanbase, truly defines Nikolai Kulemin's value.

Thanks for the education.

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02-09-2013, 01:22 AM
  #937
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Originally Posted by Mo Wanchuk View Post
Just curious how you can make that statement with absolute certainty? Do you have ties to the Leafs brass? Or is this just a hunch?


Look, I like what I see of Kulie. He has the right make up for the Malkin/Neal line. But its becoming pretty obvious there isn't a match here from a FAN'S standpoint. Maybe the Pens & Leafs brass see things different. If we don't end up getting Kulie, I'm fine with that. We wil just have to look at other options.
It's simple. Currently there is an NHL season going on and the Leafs are trying to compete for a playoffs spot.

Why in the heck are they going to trade a valuable player on their team for futures that may or may not be as good as he is some day?

This isn't directly at you - but I am getting so sick of this crap. It's like some people expect that this season only means something to a few teams and the rest are just developing players for their cup runs.

Kulemin is an important part of our team. If Pittsburgh wants him now then they have to offer an impact player to our team or overpay to compensate for the Leafs loss this season.

IF he was an expendable player then by all means I understand, but he's not so people need to realize what makes sense for Toronto. And I can tell you it isn't a bunch of futures in positions we already have good depth at.

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02-09-2013, 01:26 AM
  #938
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ITM View Post
And yet when proposed with offers including a 1st + + , you've got a number of passersby who say that's not enough for our "3rd liner".

You can also mine pages about how supplementary last season's 6th best point getter is to our club...Or how washed up Kadri was...Or how it was a mistake to bring up Frattin because he'd never score at the NHL level...Or that Reimer was done in the NHL...

Yup. Four pages of some of the league's largest and most ravenous and at times frivolous fanbase, truly defines Nikolai Kulemin's value.

Thanks for the education.
You are welcome

BTW, who is talking about last season other than YOU?

That thread about Kulemin was started just a few days ago.

Also, I think I've seen this show before. The name has changed though. It used to be the "Value of Tomas Kaberle" show.

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02-09-2013, 01:29 AM
  #939
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Originally Posted by marty111 View Post

Kulemin is an important part of our team. If Pittsburgh wants him now then they have to offer an impact player to our team or overpay to compensate for the Leafs loss this season.
You are right. It is simple. If the Leafs want what you are asking, the Pens don't want him. Have you seen Shero make a trade like this before that doesn't benefit him? No.

If the Pens are dealing multiple young assets, you better believe it's going to be after an impact player that may be a UFA such as Perry or Iginla.

If Shero is faced with giving up Maata, a 1st, + another player/prospect that has been requested by some in this thread, guess what...he'll be looking at other vets to fill the gap such as Brenden Morrow or the likes for something much cheaper like a 2nd or 3rd round pick.

It would be great if some people here would use logic.

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02-09-2013, 01:33 AM
  #940
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
Who isn't looking for a young long term solution?
This is what pisses me off about all this... the arrogance of Pittsburgh fans in this thread is beyond words.


Last edited by spiny norman: 02-09-2013 at 11:34 AM. Reason: not needed
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02-09-2013, 01:36 AM
  #941
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Kulemin is a young player who brings great defense and physicality, good but not great offense, and has another year after this on his contract.

For that I would expect a 1st (good chance it'll be something like a 25th overall at most) + a high prospect (but not blue chip level)

Nothing less then that, especially if it's Pens who are the ones initiating.

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02-09-2013, 01:38 AM
  #942
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield View Post
You are right. It is simple. If the Leafs want what you are asking, the Pens don't want him. Have you seen Shero make a trade like this before that doesn't benefit him? No.

If the Pens are dealing multiple young assets, you better believe it's going to be after an impact player that may be a UFA such as Perry or Iginla.

If Shero is faced with giving up Maata, a 1st, + another player/prospect that has been requested by some in this thread, guess what...he'll be looking at other vets to fill the gap such as Brenden Morrow or the likes for something much cheaper like a 2nd or 3rd round pick.

It would be great if some people here would use logic.
There's a lot of irony in the bolded.

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02-09-2013, 01:38 AM
  #943
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Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield View Post
You are right. It is simple. If the Leafs want what you are asking, the Pens don't want him. Have you seen Shero make a trade like this before that doesn't benefit him? No.

If the Pens are dealing multiple young assets, you better believe it's going to be after an impact player that may be a UFA such as Perry or Iginla.

If Shero is faced with giving up Maata, a 1st, + another player/prospect that has been requested by some in this thread, guess what...he'll be looking at other vets to fill the gap such as Brenden Morrow or the likes for something much cheaper like a 2nd or 3rd round pick.

It would be great if some people here would use logic.
We are using logic... Pens fans think they can get Kulemin for a late 1st 25-30 and a prospect while throwing pot shots at us in the process.

Do yourself a favour and go look up the odds of those pieces being anymore of an impact for the Leafs in a few years and then ask yourself why you think the Leafs should sit on their hands while giving up a player to the Pens.

Then you can get back to me.

And if you continue to use more logic, those offers for Kulemin aren't going to get you Iginla or Perry.

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02-09-2013, 01:40 AM
  #944
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Originally Posted by MeowLeafs View Post
Kulemin is a young player who brings great defense and physicality, good but not great offense, and has another year after this on his contract.

For that I would expect a 1st (good chance it'll be something like a 25th overall at most) + a high prospect (but not blue chip level)

Nothing less then that, especially if it's Pens who are the ones initiating.
I would say that's fair IF we needed to move the guy. But we don't so what good does it do us?

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02-09-2013, 01:43 AM
  #945
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Originally Posted by marty111 View Post

And if you continue to use more logic, those offers for Kulemin aren't going to get you Iginla or Perry.
Logic dictates the Pens or anyone else wouldn't offer the same for Kulemin as they would for Iginla or Perry.

Well, look at what we offered for and got Hossa for.

Look at what the Devils offered and got Kovalchuk for.

There is precedence for this ya know

BTW, a 1st and a mid-prospect seems fair for Kulemin. He sure as hell isn't worth Maata, a first, and a prospect/player, essentially two first round picks and a prospect/player.

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02-09-2013, 01:48 AM
  #946
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Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
There's a lot of irony in the bolded.
Yes, there is a lot of irony. Fans here think "Oh the Pens need a winger. Let's live in fantasy land and come up with some astronomical return for our player!" The same thing happened with Kaberle.

Here's the ironic part. The Pens really don't need to invest a lot to get a winger. We won the friggin cup a few years ago with Fedotenko and Talbot in our top 6

Laugh all you want about irony but the fact of the matter is Morrow for a 2nd or 3rd would be more beneficial than giving up Maata, a 1st, and someone else considering we've done more with less previously.

It's these kind of threads that definitely remind me on why I don't feel bad that Toronto hasn't made the playoffs the past few years. Pure truculence

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02-09-2013, 01:51 AM
  #947
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield View Post
Logic dictates the Pens or anyone else wouldn't offer the same for Kulemin as they would for Iginla or Perry.

Well, look at what we offered for and got Hossa for.

Look at what the Devils offered and got Kovalchuk for.

There is precedence for this ya know

BTW, a 1st and a mid-prospect seems fair for Kulemin. He sure as hell isn't worth Maata, a first, and a prospect/player, essentially two first round picks and a prospect/player.
Yeah but you are clearly missing the point... which is odd for someone preaching logic.

They are not looking to move him.
A late first and a prospect doesn't do anything for the Leafs.

This is exactly the arrogance I'm talking about and it's been going on for months and for some reason Penguins fans don't seem to get the point.

It's like another team offering fair value for James Neal with more Centers that your team doesn't need and telling you, you're an idiot if you don't agree.

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02-09-2013, 01:53 AM
  #948
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Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
I would say that's fair IF we needed to move the guy. But we don't so what good does it do us?
I'm not necessarily saying that I would personally make that trade. What I'm saying is if a Kulemin deal does happen, I don't think it would be for much more then what I stated. Ray Shero is a really good GM imo, I highly doubt he would give us more for Kuli. And Nonis knows what Kuli can and cannot do. He's not a core player so a 1st + a high prospect could be enough for him to pull the trigger.

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02-09-2013, 01:54 AM
  #949
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Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield View Post
It's these kind of threads that definitely remind me on why I don't feel bad that Toronto hasn't made the playoffs the past few years. Pure truculence
Case in point... so we're idiots if we don't see your side ONLY. Give me a break.

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02-09-2013, 02:00 AM
  #950
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield View Post
Logic dictates the Pens or anyone else wouldn't offer the same for Kulemin as they would for Iginla or Perry.

Well, look at what we offered for and got Hossa for.

Look at what the Devils offered and got Kovalchuk for.

There is precedence for this ya know

BTW, a 1st and a mid-prospect seems fair for Kulemin. He sure as hell isn't worth Maata, a first, and a prospect/player, essentially two first round picks and a prospect/player.
No reasonable person disagrees with that.

Maatta + 1st is a solid deal value wise, it just doesn't do much from an organizational standpoint. In the past two drafts they've picked two first round defenseman, and another 35th overall who was projected as a first rounder. They need forwards and more specifically centreman.

Would the Pens trade Letang for a centreman? Because its the same logic. It makes no sense to trade a valuable roster player only to add to a surplus at another position.


IF the Leafs were to trade Kulemin for a prospect and pick, that prospect would almost certainly be a forward, likely centreman because the + late first is a total crap shoot at this point.

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