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[BOS/NYI] Tim Thomas traded to Islanders for conditional 2nd in '14 or '15

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Old
02-08-2013, 09:25 PM
  #526
kdb209
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Originally Posted by Petes2424 View Post
Does anyone know the rules in the cba regarding tolling contracts, and if you do, how they effect the salary cap?
It is not covered in the CBA.

It is covered in the League Rules - the body of governing documents (By-Laws, League rulings, etc) which are included into the CBA (as long as they do not conflict with a term of the CBA).

In this case it goes back to a League ruling going back to the Zeigler/Stein era, when a team explicitly asked the League about a hypothetical case of player under contract holding out all or part of a season. The League ruled that the team could toll the contract for as long as the player refused to report. That ruling was the basis for arbiter Lawrence Holden's decision in the Alexei Yashin case (after he held out from the Sens in '99-'00) - and is the precedent for the League unless and until the matter is addressed in a CBA.

As for the salary cap - a player suspended w/o pay for refusing to report does not count against the cap (unless the player is on a 35+ yo rule SPC).

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Old
02-08-2013, 09:31 PM
  #527
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I really hope Timmy plays for the Islanders as they have a good young team.

I assume the Islanders would have to move Nabokov over Dipietro.

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02-08-2013, 11:28 PM
  #528
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I really hope Timmy plays for the Islanders as they have a good young team.

I assume the Islanders would have to move Nabokov over Dipietro.
Ok .Friday night. Lots of beer. This trade is nothing but a joke.

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02-08-2013, 11:36 PM
  #529
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Ok .Friday night. Lots of beer. This trade is nothing but a joke.
Its not a joke because it put Bruins in a spot to get Cup back,

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02-08-2013, 11:39 PM
  #530
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Its not a joke because it put Bruins in a spot to get Cup back,
Yes , you are right. The islanders are the joke.

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02-09-2013, 02:35 AM
  #531
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Originally Posted by Evgeny Oliker View Post
So for next season Thomas either become UFA or has to play for NYI?
No. I think it means Thomas' will be a ufa this summer. Daly's saying his contract won't roll over. So, his contract ends in July 2013.

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02-09-2013, 02:38 AM
  #532
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Originally Posted by Numbah4 View Post
The Isles can toll his contract to keep him.

i dont think they can.
reason being, garth willingly traded for a player that had previously stated that he had no intentions of playing this season. garth knew of thomas decision from day one and still traded for him.
if you trade for a player thats made it perfectly clear hes taking this season off, you have no right to expect that contract to be tolled. had the trade not happened, boston could toll it, but long island has no right to.
if you buy a car that you know has no motor, you cant demand a refund on the basis of the car not having a motor.

buyer beware.

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02-09-2013, 02:54 AM
  #533
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
No. I think it means Thomas' will be a ufa this summer. Daly's saying his contract won't roll over. So, his contract ends in July 2013.

I thought he meant they wont toll it for the Isles to use the space without TT playing.

However if TT were to decide to come back and play, mayby the Isles could toll it and have him play for them....

IDK that makes sens to me..

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02-09-2013, 03:35 AM
  #534
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Isles won't toll. That would mean giving up a 2nd rounder for real and that's not what they want unless Thomas comes to Garth saying he'd love to play for trhe Islanders and will sign there on the cheap (not happening of course). This move is just so they can move the likes of Streit or Visnovsky without falling below the floor

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02-09-2013, 05:06 AM
  #535
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I haven't been able to find any mention of Thomas skating? If he starts serious training, I think he will be the big name moved at the deadline. Playing the ten or twelve regular season games and the playoffs gets him through his contract obligations and he is FA this summer. The team he goes to gets a proven playoff goaltender that's fresh and ready to go.

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02-09-2013, 05:19 AM
  #536
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Originally Posted by JuniorNelson View Post
I haven't been able to find any mention of Thomas skating? If he starts serious training, I think he will be the big name moved at the deadline. Playing the ten or twelve regular season games and the playoffs gets him through his contract obligations and he is FA this summer. The team he goes to gets a proven playoff goaltender that's fresh and ready to go.
His agent was quoted after the trade, saying Thomas still plans in sitting out the season.

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02-09-2013, 05:55 AM
  #537
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Originally Posted by IslesNorway View Post
Isles won't toll. That would mean giving up a 2nd rounder for real and that's not what they want unless Thomas comes to Garth saying he'd love to play for trhe Islanders and will sign there on the cheap (not happening of course). This move is just so they can move the likes of Streit or Visnovsky without falling below the floor
The Isles don't give up a 2nd rounder unless Thomas plays. Tolling the contract means they keep his rites for next year. Don't have to pay him if he doesn't report. They'd be really stupid if they don't toll that contract. Also, keeps them above the cap floor next year. Or, if Thomas wants to play but not with them. They can always deal him.

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02-09-2013, 06:24 AM
  #538
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Originally Posted by Numbah4 View Post
They'd be really stupid if they don't toll that contract.
its not a question of the islanders trying to toll the contract.....its more a question of will the league allow it?
garth willingly traded for a player that eveyone on the planet knew was not going to play this year.
garth got what he wanted out of this trade, a ficticious cap hit, and wiggle room for trades. there-fore, trading for tim thomas has served its purpose.
i very seriously doubt the league would toll the contract.

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02-09-2013, 08:00 AM
  #539
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2 words: Slovan Bratislava.

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02-09-2013, 09:44 AM
  #540
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Originally Posted by ichabod13 View Post
its not a question of the islanders trying to toll the contract.....its more a question of will the league allow it?
garth willingly traded for a player that eveyone on the planet knew was not going to play this year.
garth got what he wanted out of this trade, a ficticious cap hit, and wiggle room for trades. there-fore, trading for tim thomas has served its purpose.
i very seriously doubt the league would toll the contract.
Yeah, from what I can infer from Bill Daly's comments, NHL won't do anything to stop a tolling contract (until it gets out of hand IMO). http://www.tsn.ca/tradecentre/story/?id=415479

So to clarify, NYI will have to give up a 2nd if TT plays. If he doesn't play, BOS gets nothing. NYI have the option of tolling his contract for next year or resigning it - risk is if TT plays, they give up the 2nd. If he doesn't play, they are up $5m in cap space...

Risk/Benefit? I think Wang is a cheap ass and will try to toll him as long as possible lol


Last edited by mokspeed: 02-09-2013 at 09:47 AM. Reason: Risk/Benefit, not Risk/Value
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02-09-2013, 10:03 AM
  #541
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Originally Posted by mokspeed View Post
Yeah, from what I can infer from Bill Daly's comments, NHL won't do anything to stop a tolling contract (until it gets out of hand IMO). http://www.tsn.ca/tradecentre/story/?id=415479

So to clarify, NYI will have to give up a 2nd if TT plays. If he doesn't play, BOS gets nothing. NYI have the option of tolling his contract for next year or resigning it - risk is if TT plays, they give up the 2nd. If he doesn't play, they are up $5m in cap space...

Risk/Benefit? I think Wang is a cheap ass and will try to toll him as long as possible lol
Even if he does decide to play, I'd say a 2nd for a year of Thomas is a pretty good deal.

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02-09-2013, 10:16 AM
  #542
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The Islanders have a fetish for Goalies that either can't play or don't want to play

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02-09-2013, 10:26 AM
  #543
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Originally Posted by kudymen View Post
2 words: Slovan Bratislava.
Six words: Playing for the isles on Sat.

http://mobile.newsday.com/inf/infomo...ed:i=1.4592300


Lubomir Visnovsky had an idea what his reception from the fans at Nassau Coliseum for his Islanders debut might be like Saturday night.

"I talk to Garth Snow, talk to coaches, talk to teammates, and it was big surprise to me how good to me, everybody excited to like me and everybody thinking I try to help this team," Visnovsky said in English he apologized for after a brief interview. "I want to [show] everybody I'm a good player and I want to help this team . . . "

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02-09-2013, 10:29 AM
  #544
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Originally Posted by mokspeed View Post
Yeah, from what I can infer from Bill Daly's comments, NHL won't do anything to stop a tolling contract (until it gets out of hand IMO). http://www.tsn.ca/tradecentre/story/?id=415479

So to clarify, NYI will have to give up a 2nd if TT plays. If he doesn't play, BOS gets nothing. NYI have the option of tolling his contract for next year or resigning it - risk is if TT plays, they give up the 2nd. If he doesn't play, they are up $5m in cap space...

Risk/Benefit? I think Wang is a cheap ass and will try to toll him as long as possible lol
Staples has said they won't toll his contract and from a Daly comment that I read on yahoo, the NHL will not let the contract roll over into next season.

I posted the link of Daly's statement in this thread.

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02-09-2013, 10:30 AM
  #545
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Originally Posted by IslesNorway View Post
Isles won't toll. That would mean giving up a 2nd rounder for real and that's not what they want unless Thomas comes to Garth saying he'd love to play for trhe Islanders and will sign there on the cheap (not happening of course). This move is just so they can move the likes of Streit or Visnovsky without falling below the floor
Anybody ever think maybe the money is simply to give the Isles the money to buy out their joke of a goalie Rickety Dipietro? If the Isles are in the mix of making the playoffs, they will send no one away without getting a needed acquisition. Snow said last year picks are not really what he needs at this point, he needs players.

And when making the trade for TT, it was expressed that the money gave them cap flexibility for buyouts.

As for tolling the Isles probably will not, I don't think they want to give TT $5 million at 39 years old, unless he says he is not coming back. Then yeah you toll the contract and help payoff the Rickety fiasco.

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02-09-2013, 10:34 AM
  #546
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It is not covered in the CBA.

It is covered in the League Rules - the body of governing documents (By-Laws, League rulings, etc) which are included into the CBA (as long as they do not conflict with a term of the CBA).

In this case it goes back to a League ruling going back to the Zeigler/Stein era, when a team explicitly asked the League about a hypothetical case of player under contract holding out all or part of a season. The League ruled that the team could toll the contract for as long as the player refused to report. That ruling was the basis for arbiter Lawrence Holden's decision in the Alexei Yashin case (after he held out from the Sens in '99-'00) - and is the precedent for the League unless and until the matter is addressed in a CBA.

As for the salary cap - a player suspended w/o pay for refusing to report does not count against the cap (unless the player is on a 35+ yo rule SPC).
Thanks.. So he counts due to his age. And I take it he's still "tolled"....

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02-09-2013, 10:39 AM
  #547
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Originally Posted by Nolanitis View Post
Anybody ever think maybe the money is simply to give the Isles the money to buy out their joke of a goalie Rickety Dipietro? If the Isles are in the mix of making the playoffs, they will send no one away without getting a needed acquisition. Snow said last year picks are not really what he needs at this point, he needs players.

And when making the trade for TT, it was expressed that the money gave them cap flexibility for buyouts.

As for tolling the Isles probably will not, I don't think they want to give TT $5 million at 39 years old, unless he says he is not coming back. Then yeah you toll the contract and help payoff the Rickety fiasco.
Obviously buying out Dipietro would be ideal. Except for the fact they have to pay him. That's a ton of cash to just ship out.

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02-09-2013, 11:01 AM
  #548
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Staples has said they won't toll his contract and from a Daly comment that I read on yahoo, the NHL will not let the contract roll over into next season.

I posted the link of Daly's statement in this thread.
I thought I was giving you a hard time on our board with the TT discussion, but after reading through part of this thread I realize it was mild banter compared to the 1,000 times you had to clarify that we won't be losing the 2nd round pick, not to mention the fact that Daly himself said the Isles won't be allowed to toll the contract for infinity. I hope you have Advil because it would give me a headache. I think I even saw some posters talking from an angle of the Islanders expecting TT to play one day.

I do think Vis is going to be traded, btw, and have said that for a while now. But Streit has been playing to his standard season opening suck level so this entire saga may play out in some unanticipated interesting way. Thomas' contract wouldn't cover moving both though.

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02-09-2013, 11:03 AM
  #549
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Originally Posted by Nolanitis View Post
Anybody ever think maybe the money is simply to give the Isles the money to buy out their joke of a goalie Rickety Dipietro? If the Isles are in the mix of making the playoffs, they will send no one away without getting a needed acquisition. Snow said last year picks are not really what he needs at this point, he needs players.

And when making the trade for TT, it was expressed that the money gave them cap flexibility for buyouts.

As for tolling the Isles probably will not, I don't think they want to give TT $5 million at 39 years old, unless he says he is not coming back. Then yeah you toll the contract and help payoff the Rickety fiasco.
Why would they buy him out? Keeping him on the payroll, but having insurance picking up whatever slices of the season he misses, while having the entire thing count towards the cap is basically like taking that cap floor bar and lowering it several million dollars for Wang. There really is no incentive for him to move little Ricky.

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02-09-2013, 11:36 AM
  #550
Robert Theodorson
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There's something inherently wrong with this move and the league seems powerless to stop the Isles from doing so.

Thomas won't play this year. Mentally, he's gone off the deep end.

It's just a way for the Isles to spend as little money as possible and ice the least competitive team they can find. Taking on $5 mil in salary for dead weight just so you won't be penalized is just ethically wrong.

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