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Letang for a legit 1st line winger

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Old
02-09-2013, 04:01 AM
  #151
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How about we consider dealing our nr.1 D-man if and when our youngsters show that they can play at the same level with top pairing ice-time and against top forwards?

Ie. not about to happen anytime soon.

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Old
02-09-2013, 04:10 AM
  #152
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Okposo+ or Grabner??

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02-09-2013, 04:12 AM
  #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StrongIslanders90 View Post
Okposo+ or Grabner??
Shero wouldn't give the Islanders Letang and then see him 6+ times a year in the same division. Not unless it was for a massive over payment.

Also, the only way Ray would consider it is if there is someone from within the system, playing well enough that the team wouldn't struggle without him.

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02-09-2013, 04:19 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
Shero wouldn't give the Islanders Letang and then see him 6+ times a year in the same division. Not unless it was for a massive over payment.

Also, the only way Ray would consider it is if there is someone from within the system, playing well enough that the team wouldn't struggle without him.
I tried


Letang is an awsome player and I dont see PIT giving him up unless

A) They have enough D to survive without him

B) if that winger is on the Neal leavel or Better

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Old
02-09-2013, 04:24 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by StrongIslanders90 View Post
I tried


Letang is an awsome player and I dont see PIT giving him up unless

A) They have enough D to survive without him

B) if that winger is on the Neal leavel or Better
I'd love Okposo and Nino for Letang and that would be fair for a 50+ defenseman that is physical and solid in his own end and just 25yrs old to boot.

BUT...for the Pens to think about moving him, Despres would need to put up better points offensively, start adapting quicker than he already is and then on top of that, have Niskanen just go full beast mode and fully realize his potential.

Or at least have Morrow go on a tear in the AHL (ppg the rest of the way) and get called up and never sent back down because he's just too damn good to do it.

Highly unlikely at this point that all of that happens, if even 1.

I think people forget what kind of beast Letang is. Had Kris played a full season last year, he would have put up 69pts, while still being a monster at both ends of the rink and easily taken home the Norris, imo. This year, he has 9pts in 10gms and he's been solid in his own end. His value is very high, top 4 defensemen that can put up numbers like that and are still very good in their own end are rarely ever on the market. When they are, their value is astronomical, for good reason.

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02-09-2013, 06:30 AM
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
Shero wouldn't give the Islanders Letang and then see him 6+ times a year in the same division. Not unless it was for a massive over payment.

.
And Snow would not give significant assets, unless Letang was willing to sign a longterm extension.

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02-09-2013, 07:11 AM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
I'd love Okposo and Nino for Letang and that would be fair for a 50+ defenseman that is physical and solid in his own end and just 25yrs old to boot.

BUT...for the Pens to think about moving him, Despres would need to put up better points offensively, start adapting quicker than he already is and then on top of that, have Niskanen just go full beast mode and fully realize his potential.

Or at least have Morrow go on a tear in the AHL (ppg the rest of the way) and get called up and never sent back down because he's just too damn good to do it.

Highly unlikely at this point that all of that happens, if even 1.

I think people forget what kind of beast Letang is. Had Kris played a full season last year, he would have put up 69pts, while still being a monster at both ends of the rink and easily taken home the Norris, imo. This year, he has 9pts in 10gms and he's been solid in his own end. His value is very high, top 4 defensemen that can put up numbers like that and are still very good in their own end are rarely ever on the market. When they are, their value is astronomical, for good reason.
Stop, this isn't enough.

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Old
02-09-2013, 08:26 AM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Hell no, way too much.
Set aside the div. rivals aspect, for discussion only:

Marc Staal + Girardi + Stepan + Boyle + rangers 2014 2nd
for
Letang + Neal + Pens 1st in 2014 and 2015

Analysis
Staal IMO is the closest in talent to Letang, 2 sides of the same coin, Staal the consummate shut down D, Letang excelling at puck movement.
A complementary L-R pair of staal girardi are worth more as a pair than individually. rangers than get neal.

But while that is close to value, that would improve Pens D but step backward on Fs.
So Rangers add Stepan (former 2nd) and Boyle (former 1st) and a 2nd to offset the two 1sts.

Pens lose Letang and their sniper Neal, but their D is improved by a complementary first pair. They add a second TOP D so they can afford to move/package a backliner.
They also get Stepan to bolster their pivot, and Boyle for the lower 6 depth.
With two NHL ready extra bodies available NOW, 2 Fs can be considered added to the mix.
Between all these assets ON TOP OF the benefit of the 2 Ds and the 2 Fs retained, there is likely a combo that nets Pens another sniper from somewhere.

Usually coke for pepsi does not work or is not done.
One top D for another, or a sniper for a top D is also trade off.

But this multiple piece approach suggests merit.

For Rangers, depth is much less, which gets rectified next season, and get by this year on
McDonagh Letang
Del Zotto Stralman
Gilroy/Bickel Emminger

I'm comfortable enough with Miller replacing Stepan
there are options for 4C, and I consider those on the roster, as well as Andrew Yogan, a big guy who has scoring record; even though a reach that's for minimum minutes each night on 4th shift.

Remember, Rangers are without a first due to the Nash deal, and this gives them a first this year and next.

But there are many possibilities...........
What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Without even looking at the value of the proposed trade, the bolded section blows my mind. Not that Stepan isn't a nice player, but that's the most asinine reasoning ever for a team that has Crosby, Malkin, Sutter, and God incarnate in Joe Vitale down the middle.

But when you review the value...

For a minute, pretend Letang = Staal (ha!)
And pretend that Neal = Girardi (ha! ha!)

Stepan + Boyle + a 2nd = 2 1sts? On what planet?

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Old
02-09-2013, 08:30 AM
  #159
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Burrows + Edler for Letang?

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Old
02-09-2013, 08:44 AM
  #160
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I'd love to have Letang. You guys would probably never trade him. But just for fun the deal I could see being done is:

To Pitsburgh

Kessel

To Toronto

Letang

I don't even want to think how deadly Kessel would be when he's playing with Crosby.

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Old
02-09-2013, 08:54 AM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
Burrows + Edler for Letang?
Pass, can't stand Burrows

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Old
02-09-2013, 09:01 AM
  #162
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Michalek and Silfverberg.

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Old
02-09-2013, 09:12 AM
  #163
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Michalek +

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Old
02-09-2013, 09:19 AM
  #164
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I really liked the Anaheim offer a couple of pages ago, that looked something like: Ryan + Fowler for Letang. But I think Anaheim is giving a little too much. Perhaps if they switched Fowler for a 1st round pick.

Ryan + 1st
vs
Letang?

Gives Pittsburgh a real big skille 1st liner, and Anaheim gets Letang...

But, the best choice is, like many have stated it already, for Pitts to keep their #1d.

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Old
02-09-2013, 12:06 PM
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
A contender does not trade a 25 year old who's finished in the top 10 in Norris voting the last two years because his team looked good in one game against the worst team in the league without him, and a 21 year old defenseman who has exactly 27 games of NHL experience has performed well this year.

That would be monumentally stupid. Something to consider before starting a thread.
This should've killed the thread. It really should have.

Instead this zombie keeps shuffling on, against reason, against common sense, against the laws of man and nature.

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Old
02-09-2013, 12:09 PM
  #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuburbanRhythm View Post
......
Quote:
What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard.
Tell us how you REALLY feel


Quote:
At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought.
It was entirely rational. You just disagreed with the conclusion, and some of the suppositions, which is your right. But you are wrong, it is entirely rationale.

Quote:
Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it.
I'm gonna be kind and give you a pass on this, my erroneous colleague.

Quote:
I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Thanks for nothing, and thanks, I guess.

Quote:
Without even looking at the value of the proposed trade, the bolded section blows my mind.
You should look at value when considering the worth of a trade. And the blowing of a mind is not necessarily a bad thing.

Quote:
Not that Stepan isn't a nice player, but that's the most asinine reasoning ever for a team that has Crosby, Malkin, Sutter, and God incarnate in Joe Vitale down the middle.
I was technically not wrong, which you may now correct yourself and admit. Adding two Cs and not taking a C back adds to the Cs you have. I neither said, nor inferred that your C is weak. If you want to gleam some inference, it would be that by adding a 2c and Boyle to do 3 or 4c that that would give you options. Those options could include, for example, playing malkin on W to offset moving Neal. Or it could mean, assuming you were not gonna immediately flip Stepan/Boyle, that you'd look at package some combo of Sutter/Vitale/and one of your lower D for one or more high end ws to replace Neal.

Quote:
But when you review the value...
ok

Quote:
For a minute, pretend Letang = Staal (ha!)
This is not "(ha!)", this is ballpark close enough to be true.
Others have better shots, others are outstanding passers. But Letang is an outstanding D for overall playmaking skill based on his skating.

But on the flip side of defense while others are arguably stronger or more excelled in a given area, IMO Staal is the single best shutdown D in the league IF your criteria is overall ability, to skate fast enough and check a strong, bigger elite F, play great position, and block shots, the whole D package... then yes, you may prefer one or the other, particularly based on a given need, but Staal and Letang are counterparts one excelling on offense, the other magnificent on D.

Quote:
And pretend that Neal = Girardi (ha! ha!)
Also close, but not as close. That's an all star D for an established scorer.

Quote:
Stepan + Boyle + a 2nd = 2 1sts? On what planet?
planet earth! What part of my explanation did you not get?
Stepan = former 2nd = Boyle a former 1st, then add the huge factor that you have an idea of their productive value, which is established NOW, and they are actually available in this deal to contribute NOW. These two are not AHLers that need gelling, or the draft picks, which must wait a couple of years min to develop, assuming they do.

Peace out.
On reflection, if Letang is available as UFA after next season, i think I probably go to alternate plan, and hope to sign him then. He'd be a terrific tutor for our fast skating former #1, Brady Skeji.

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02-09-2013, 12:14 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by Detective 45 View Post
True, but I think Letang's value to the team is far greater than Ryan Whitney's or Alex Goligoski's were when they were traded.
No kidding! Kris Letang, pretty much represents what Drew Doughty is to the LA Kings. So for the Pens to trade Letang, the offer will have to be quite sweet for Shero to say yes to that deal

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02-09-2013, 12:27 PM
  #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Tell us how you REALLY feel



It was entirely rational. You just disagreed with the conclusion, and some of the suppositions, which is your right. But you are wrong, it is entirely rationale.


I'm gonna be kind and give you a pass on this, my erroneous colleague.


Thanks for nothing, and thanks, I guess.


You should look at value when considering the worth of a trade. And the blowing of a mind is not necessarily a bad thing.


I was technically not wrong, which you may now correct yourself and admit. Adding two Cs and not taking a C back adds to the Cs you have. I neither said, nor inferred that your C is weak. If you want to gleam some inference, it would be that by adding a 2c and Boyle to do 3 or 4c that that would give you options. Those options could include, for example, playing malkin on W to offset moving Neal. Or it could mean, assuming you were not gonna immediately flip Stepan/Boyle, that you'd look at package some combo of Sutter/Vitale/and one of your lower D for one or more high end ws to replace Neal.


ok


This is not "(ha!)", this is ballpark close enough to be true.
Others have better shots, others are outstanding passers. But Letang is an outstanding D for overall playmaking skill based on his skating.

But on the flip side of defense while others are arguably stronger or more excelled in a given area, IMO Staal is the single best shutdown D in the league IF your criteria is overall ability, to skate fast enough and check a strong, bigger elite F, play great position, and block shots, the whole D package... then yes, you may prefer one or the other, particularly based on a given need, but Staal and Letang are counterparts one excelling on offense, the other magnificent on D.


Also close, but not as close. That's an all star D for an established scorer.


planet earth! What part of my explanation did you not get?
Stepan = former 2nd = Boyle a former 1st, then add the huge factor that you have an idea of their productive value, which is established NOW, and they are actually available in this deal to contribute NOW. These two are not AHLers that need gelling, or the draft picks, which must wait a couple of years min to develop, assuming they do.

Peace out.
On reflection, if Letang is available as UFA after next season, i think I probably go to alternate plan, and hope to sign him then. He'd be a terrific tutor for our fast skating former #1, Brady Skeji.
He won't be. Ask any Pens fan who the next core player on the team is after Crosby & Malkin and 9/10 will say Letang. Shero will do what he needs to do to sign him as soon as he's able to negotiate.

Also, the first paragraph of that response to you was a quote from Billy Madison.

On an unrelated note, I can't believe this thread is still going.

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Old
02-09-2013, 12:28 PM
  #169
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The only way Letang gets dealt is if it's a similar situation to Jordan Staal, where Letang turns down a generous offer by the Pens and looks pretty much decided on going to free agency in order to sign elsewhere. Any other situation and he's not being dealt.

Look, people can debate all they want where Letang falls in defenseman rankings. Is he top 15? Top 10? Top 5? Top 3? Whatever the case, the point is he's among the top handful of defensemen in the NHL. You simply don't give that up no matter the package, not unless the player actually forces your hand.

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02-09-2013, 12:29 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by The OttoMan Lion View Post
From the Sens, assuming we don't have Karlsson:

Michalek, Silfverberg, Ceci, 1st

Seems high but with a player like Letang you need to aim too damn high
Thanks for awarding the next 10 Stanley Cups to the Penguins...

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02-09-2013, 12:31 PM
  #171
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Pittsburgh completely FALLS APART without Letang. For all the talk about Crosby and Malkin, Letang is completely underrated even by SOME Penguins fans. The guy is one of the best defenders in the league and is one of the better power play QBs in the league and laterally moves as well as anyone on a level with guys like Doughty, Karlsson and McDonagh.

There's NO WAY that Pittsburgh trades him for a Winger.

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Old
02-09-2013, 12:32 PM
  #172
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The teams core should only consist of 3 players, or you might aswell add the whole roster.

Crosby
Malkin
Letang

If Letang goes, it's going to be a pretty big bidding war. We might even add to Letang to get someone (like a Weber).

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02-09-2013, 12:33 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by CM Lundqvist View Post
Pittsburgh completely FALLS APART without Letang. For all the talk about Crosby and Malkin, Letang is completely underrated even by SOME Penguins fans. The guy is one of the best defenders in the league and is one of the better power play QBs in the league and laterally moves as well as anyone on a level with guys like Doughty, Karlsson and McDonagh.

There's NO WAY that Pittsburgh trades him for a Winger.
Not sure if serious. Have you seen him? he flat out sucks.

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02-09-2013, 12:34 PM
  #174
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If Letang goes, it's going to be a pretty big bidding war. We might even add to Letang to get someone (like a Weber).
I wouldn't do that if I'm Pittsburgh. Sure, Weber is better defensively and has an absolute bomb from the point, but Letang has great chemistry with guys like Crosby, Malkin and Neal fits Pittsburgh's style of play to a T.

I also think he's a better pure power play QB than Weber. Weber is the best trigger-man in the league though.

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02-09-2013, 12:36 PM
  #175
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Not sure if serious. Have you seen him? he flat out sucks.
If you're talking about this season, the Penguins power play is in a funk. They'll rebound. He's been great for them there in previous seasons.

I'll take him as the Rangers power play QB though if you're willing to give him away.

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