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02-09-2013, 08:31 AM
  #76
The Nose
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Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
They're doing no better than the Red Wings at the moment, and that's with Hagelin, Kreider, and a host young blue-liners.
How about last year when they were one goal away from the SCF? They wouldn't have been there without the young guns.

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02-09-2013, 09:02 AM
  #77
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How about last year when they were one goal away from the SCF? They wouldn't have been there without the young guns.
They weren't one goal away from the SCF. In fact, a swing here and a swing there, they might not have even got out of the first round. This isn't last year. This is this year.

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02-09-2013, 09:39 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
You need size, when your main players are lacking of it. Somebody has to win those board battles against huge defencemen and have to screen those nowadays monster goalies. That's kind of a hockey law, I really wonder guys who don't understand it. Our team has this problem, and that's why Bertuzzi is here. Period.

Of course everybody would take Crosby before Bertuzzi, but that's not the discussion. Also almost every GM tries to surround smallish players with size. Weird guys those GM's, who has to be stupidest people in the World and all wisdom has to exist in these message boards, that everything opposite is better than they are trying to do.
Don't disagree that some degree of size is required to stand in front and screen the goalie (unless you're Dino Ciccarelli, anyway), but you don't have to be big to make a killing near the goal. Hudler camped out there all last year and just waited for Z&Flip to quirt the puck over to him.

A guy doesn't have to be big, but he has to know how to work around the net to his strengths.

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02-09-2013, 09:49 AM
  #79
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I'm more than content with Andersson coming up and hopefully slotting in at center, fourth line, maybe even some PK minutes. I've been a big supporter of his, I'm glad he got the call up. The Oilers are pretty decimated by injuries right now, especially down the center. Can we be the ones to stop Gagner's every game point streak!

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02-09-2013, 10:28 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
They are going also towards a cap hell, because bringing these guys up too early.

That forces Sather to a possible Gaborik buyout or other "nice" cuttings that weakens the team in the future.
You're kidding, right? Do you think the Rangers should have buried McD in the minors to save some $$ on his next contract, even though bringing up a talented kid was better in his 1st full season than any D-man we have on our team helped them win games and improve as a team?

Sure, his next contract won't be cheap, but look at what other very good young defensemen got in their 2nd contracts- Subban only got $2.875m per in cap hit, and Del Zotto (who nailed down a top 4 spot) has a cap hit of $2.555. Those are very manageable amounts for guys who help a team win. The Rangers potential cap woes don't have anything to do with playing their young guys- it's more a product of their FA and trade activities.

In the Red Wing world, KH may have kept Smith down in GR an extra season to only give him this 1 full season up with the Wings before his next deal comes up, but I don't think the potential contract savings is worth the cost to his development he could have had in playing a season with Lidstrom.

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02-09-2013, 10:38 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
This has nothing to do with "Size and Frame." This has everything to do with Todd Bertuzzi, who plays like a big forward and acts as a net front presence, going down with an injury and us replacing him with a guy who plays a similar game.
You mean the Todd Bertuzzi on the Wings, right? Not the guy who used to be an actual PWF with the Canucks, correct? Because our Bertuzzi plays most games as if he's a 5'10" 185lb finesse forward trapped in the body of a guy who's actually 6'3" and around 230lbs.

Sure, he occasionally remembers how big he is and drives the net or mucks it up in the corners, but he generally tries much harder to be Pavel Datsyuk than Milan Lucic out there. I know we are hurting for size in the top 6 and I hope KH FINALLY tries to address that, but Bert just doesn't play an effective big man game despite his size.

Granted, the dude can scowl and curse out an opponent in a scrum like no other, but that's about as far as any intimidation may go.

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02-09-2013, 11:03 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Brick Top View Post
You're kidding, right? Do you think the Rangers should have buried McD in the minors to save some $$ on his next contract, even though bringing up a talented kid was better in his 1st full season than any D-man we have on our team helped them win games and improve as a team?

Sure, his next contract won't be cheap, but look at what other very good young defensemen got in their 2nd contracts- Subban only got $2.875m per in cap hit, and Del Zotto (who nailed down a top 4 spot) has a cap hit of $2.555. Those are very manageable amounts for guys who help a team win. The Rangers potential cap woes don't have anything to do with playing their young guys- it's more a product of their FA and trade activities.

In the Red Wing world, KH may have kept Smith down in GR an extra season to only give him this 1 full season up with the Wings before his next deal comes up, but I don't think the potential contract savings is worth the cost to his development he could have had in playing a season with Lidstrom.
Yeah, I greatly prefer having a guy like Z coming off winning the Conn Smythe on a ridiculously cheap contract and wondering how we were going to sign him, Mule, Hudler, Hossa, etc. It's so much better than having a bunch of guys on cheap contracts like Smith, Kindl and Mursak who have not fully developed in NHL players and as a result will never force Holland to make tough decisions about how to keep his team on top. And while many of us know Holland would never offer up what it would take to sign a Rick Nash there were plenty here who were excited about the prospect of getting a real power forward in his prime. Sure his contract offers little value but at least you're getting a guy who is one of the premier forwards in the game who would absolutely clean up on Pavel Datsyuk's wing.

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02-09-2013, 11:03 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
They weren't one goal away from the SCF. In fact, a swing here and a swing there, they might not have even got out of the first round. This isn't last year. This is this year.
Who cares what year it is? Its basically the same exact team.

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02-09-2013, 11:33 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Brick Top View Post
You mean the Todd Bertuzzi on the Wings, right? Not the guy who used to be an actual PWF with the Canucks, correct? Because our Bertuzzi plays most games as if he's a 5'10" 185lb finesse forward trapped in the body of a guy who's actually 6'3" and around 230lbs.

Sure, he occasionally remembers how big he is and drives the net or mucks it up in the corners, but he generally tries much harder to be Pavel Datsyuk than Milan Lucic out there. I know we are hurting for size in the top 6 and I hope KH FINALLY tries to address that, but Bert just doesn't play an effective big man game despite his size.

Granted, the dude can scowl and curse out an opponent in a scrum like no other, but that's about as far as any intimidation may go.
Honestly Who do we have on the team who is "BIG"

Franzen (doesn't throw alot of hits, he has a great shot, he is more of a sniper than a hitter)
Bertuzzi (Again plays more a finesse game than a hitter)
Abdelkader (He throws hits, he is the guy we are talking about, uses his size to wreak havoc)
Samuelsson (Finesse shooter, doesn't play with size)
Tootoo (Small guy, plays like a HUGE guy) - Love him, he should spend less time fighting and more time drawing penalties

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02-09-2013, 11:49 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by The Nose View Post
Who cares what year it is? Its basically the same exact team.
And it's nowhere near as dominant this year as last.

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02-09-2013, 11:50 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by BinCookin View Post
Honestly Who do we have on the team who is "BIG"

Franzen (doesn't throw alot of hits, he has a great shot, he is more of a sniper than a hitter)
Bertuzzi (Again plays more a finesse game than a hitter)
Abdelkader (He throws hits, he is the guy we are talking about, uses his size to wreak havoc)
Samuelsson (Finesse shooter, doesn't play with size)
Tootoo (Small guy, plays like a HUGE guy) - Love him, he should spend less time fighting and more time drawing penalties
I'd say that's a pretty accurate description of the players listed (well, you may have exaggerated a bit on Abby, as on a scale of hitters/agitators, I think he's more of a "misdemeanor disturbing the peace" kind of guy than full-on "dude wreaking havoc on the ice"). And if we keep him long term, just put on the 4th line as a winger and call it good.

Who knows, maybe we'll get lucky and Sheahan's offensive game continues to develop and he ends up being a physical 2C for us. That'll take a while (if it even happens) so I'd love KH to land a physical scorer for the top 9.

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02-09-2013, 12:10 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BinCookin View Post
Honestly Who do we have on the team who is "BIG"

Franzen (doesn't throw alot of hits, he has a great shot, he is more of a sniper than a hitter)
Bertuzzi (Again plays more a finesse game than a hitter)
Abdelkader (He throws hits, he is the guy we are talking about, uses his size to wreak havoc)
Samuelsson (Finesse shooter, doesn't play with size)
Tootoo (Small guy, plays like a HUGE guy) - Love him, he should spend less time fighting and more time drawing penalties
Third on the team with 14 hits? That's not throwing around the body?

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02-09-2013, 12:40 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
Third on the team with 14 hits? That's not throwing around the body?

Glad he's throwing his weight around more this season (apparently just a hair over once per game) but for the course of his career, you are probably more of a power forward than Mule. He's a finesse player by any realist's definition.

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02-09-2013, 01:07 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brick Top View Post
Glad he's throwing his weight around more this season (apparently just a hair over once per game) but for the course of his career, you are probably more of a power forward than Mule. He's a finesse player by any realist's definition.
Franzen's averaged less than a hit a game just once since 08/09. The guy isn't a prototypical North American powerforward in the mold of Iginla or Lucic, but he's not Ray Whitney, either.

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02-09-2013, 01:14 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
Franzen's averaged less than a hit a game just once since 08/09. The guy isn't a prototypical North American powerforward in the mold of Iginla or Lucic, but he's not Ray Whitney, either.
Very true. He's basically Ray Whitney if Ray had started an HGH regimen when he was 10 yrs old.

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