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Letang for a legit 1st line winger

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Old
02-09-2013, 11:42 AM
  #176
Sidney the Kidney
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Originally Posted by CM Lundqvist View Post
If you're talking about this season, the Penguins power play is in a funk. They'll rebound. He's been great for them there in previous seasons.

I'll take him as the Rangers power play QB though if you're willing to give him away.
As a pure PP QB, he's kind of iffy. He hesitates too much, and instead of really being the general out there and really taking charge, too often seems to just defer to Sid or Geno, which inevitably leads to him passing up chances of his own in favor of just dishing the puck off to those two.

His ability to QB a PP is pretty much the only flaw in his game that might keep him from winning a Norris trophy.

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02-09-2013, 11:46 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Peace out.
On reflection, if Letang is available as UFA after next season, i think I probably go to alternate plan, and hope to sign him then. He'd be a terrific tutor for our fast skating former #1, Brady Skeji.
Oh, the good old, we`ll just sign him as UFA. Gotta love when people look at UFA lists more than a year out and start adding to the cart. This is about as likely to happen as us signing Lundquist in FA that summer.

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02-09-2013, 11:49 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
As a pure PP QB, he's kind of iffy. He hesitates too much, and instead of really being the general out there and really taking charge, too often seems to just defer to Sid or Geno, which inevitably leads to him passing up chances of his own in favor of just dishing the puck off to those two.

His ability to QB a PP is pretty much the only flaw in his game that might keep him from winning a Norris trophy.
Was about to say pretty much the say same thing.

He isn't capable of slowing the game down while on the PP combine that with his hesitation, average entry, puck control and questionable decision making...he's not a pure PP QB.

He's still adequate and will produce on the PP, but when I think of pure PP QB's, I'm thinking Gonchar, Enstrom, Markov, Kabs, Boyle.

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02-09-2013, 11:50 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by CM Lundqvist View Post
If you're talking about this season, the Penguins power play is in a funk. They'll rebound. He's been great for them there in previous seasons.

I'll take him as the Rangers power play QB though if you're willing to give him away.
Sitting at third in the leage at a 29% is not a funk. Fact is Letang is not a bona fide PP QB.

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02-09-2013, 11:58 AM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
As a pure PP QB, he's kind of iffy. He hesitates too much, and instead of really being the general out there and really taking charge, too often seems to just defer to Sid or Geno, which inevitably leads to him passing up chances of his own in favor of just dishing the puck off to those two.

His ability to QB a PP is pretty much the only flaw in his game that might keep him from winning a Norris trophy.
That's the problem though, with two of the best players in the league, what are you supposed to do, not defer to them? While I agree with you that Letang should sack up and take advantage (if he ever did that, Pittsburgh's PP would be unstoppable) but everytime I see him play he always makes good decisions with the puck and moves it well at the point.

He had a couple of miscues in the game against the Islanders, but that's gonna happen. Even Sergei Zubov and Brian Leetch did and they're two of the best PP QB's ever.

You guys watch him more than I do, so I'll take your word for it, but I have a very good feeling if he didn't have those two there, he'd start shooting a lot more, and he should.

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Originally Posted by Mo Wanchuk View Post
Sitting at third in the leage at a 29% is not a funk. Fact is Letang is not a bona fide PP QB.
Looks like they picked it up already, I know they started off pretty bad. It was mentioned in both the Ranger and Islander games that they were having trouble.

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02-09-2013, 11:59 AM
  #181
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Originally Posted by kratzbuerste View Post
Oh, the good old, we`ll just sign him as UFA. Gotta love when people look at UFA lists more than a year out and start adding to the cart. This is about as likely to happen as us signing Lundquist in FA that summer.
Fair enough.
however, let the record reflect that I did say we could "hope to" sign him, not thatI took it as a given or foregone conclusion we would.

If we trade/buyout Richards that would = one big contract for upcoming salary guys getting raises. If we move Girardi for assets, that creates room for us to compete for letang who deserves top dollar, whether or not that is the max. in the end he may well want to re-up, esp. w/ chance to play with Crosby Malkin.

We'll see.......

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02-09-2013, 12:09 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Fair enough.
however, let the record reflect that I did say we could "hope to" sign him, not thatI took it as a given or foregone conclusion we would.

If we trade/buyout Richards that would = one big contract for upcoming salary guys getting raises. If we move Girardi for assets, that creates room for us to compete for letang who deserves top dollar, whether or not that is the max. in the end he may well want to re-up, esp. w/ chance to play with Crosby Malkin.

We'll see.......
Haha... Dream a little dream.

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02-09-2013, 12:12 PM
  #183
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Kessel for Letang.

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02-09-2013, 12:13 PM
  #184
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Kessel for Letang.
No. Wouldn't get it done.

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02-09-2013, 12:14 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by leugangen View Post
Kessel for Letang.
I can totally understand why Penguins might not want to do that but this is a deal you do when you need a shake up.

Penguins have a formidable roster and unless they either choke these playoffs where they realize they needed more scoring up front, or struggle in the regular season they might not want to disrupt their core.

This is what it'll take for Kessel, though. Quality in return, no quantity needed.

We have good young players in the farm.

Our D will be so mobilke with Letang, Rielly, Gardiner and Phaneuf. It would be amazing to see.

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02-09-2013, 12:17 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Mo Wanchuk View Post
No. Wouldn't get it done.
I don't know about that, the value is very close don't think either team would do it as you'd be robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Both teams would be left with a gigantic hole in the respective positions.


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02-09-2013, 12:19 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Dark Knight View Post
I can totally understand why Penguins might not want to do that but this is a deal you do when you need a shake up.

Penguins have a formidable roster and unless they either choke these playoffs where they realize they needed more scoring up front, or struggle in the regular season they might not want to disrupt their core.

This is what it'll take for Kessel, though. Quality in return, no quantity needed.

We have good young players in the farm.

Our D will be so mobilke with Letang, Rielly, Gardiner and Phaneuf. It would be amazing to see.
True. For the TOML, you would do this. But Pittsburgh would not. A #1 PMD>one dimensional first line sniper any day of the week. Not that I wouldn't like to see what Phil the Thrill could do on Sid's wing, but not at the cost of Letang.

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02-09-2013, 12:22 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by CM Lundqvist View Post
I don't know about that, the value is very close don't think either team would do it as they're both trading from positions in which they need more depth in.
I'm confused. Are you saying the Pens need more D? And the Leafs need more Wingers?

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02-09-2013, 12:28 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Mo Wanchuk View Post
I'm confused. Are you saying the Pens need more D? And the Leafs need more Wingers?
No, I'm saying if they do, it creates a GIGANTIC hole on both sides.

Sorry, should have worded it differently.

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02-09-2013, 12:30 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Dark Knight View Post
I can totally understand why Penguins might not want to do that but this is a deal you do when you need a shake up.

Penguins have a formidable roster and unless they either choke these playoffs where they realize they needed more scoring up front, or struggle in the regular season they might not want to disrupt their core.

This is what it'll take for Kessel, though. Quality in return, no quantity needed.

We have good young players in the farm.

Our D will be so mobilke with Letang, Rielly, Gardiner and Phaneuf. It would be amazing to see.
If the Leafs are looking to get a #1 at any position (D, C, G) in return for Kessel, they are looking at someone with some serious flaws in age, contract, recent play, etc. They are not getting someone like Letang.
IF they trade Kessel (and before I get the same spiel as in the Kulemin thread, they obviously do not have to trade him), they should look into getting a young player with that sort of upside plus a high-ish pick instead of trading for someone like Statsny or Luongo.

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02-09-2013, 12:37 PM
  #191
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No way the Pens move Letang, why would they? he is their best D, at least a top 5 D man in the league, arguably top 3 (very debatable not saying that he is) and should be considered for the Norris this year. He can produce points almost as well as Karlsson can but unlike Karlsson he can actually hold his own defensively and doesn't' need someone like Methot to cover for him on the defensive end. the only prospect I see that could become a #1D in the Pens system is Derrick Pouliot the rest all have top 4 potential. If anything the Pens will move one of their high end defensive prospects in a deal for a top line winger.

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02-09-2013, 01:50 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post


I was technically not wrong, which you may now correct yourself and admit. Adding two Cs and not taking a C back adds to the Cs you have. I neither said, nor inferred that your C is weak. If you want to gleam some inference, it would be that by adding a 2c and Boyle to do 3 or 4c that that would give you options. Those options could include, for example, playing malkin on W to offset moving Neal. Or it could mean, assuming you were not gonna immediately flip Stepan/Boyle, that you'd look at package some combo of Sutter/Vitale/and one of your lower D for one or more high end ws to replace Neal.
You weren't wrong in theory...but in practice, it makes zero sense for Pittsburgh. But I understand, you aren't concerned with Pittsburgh, otherwise you wouldn't have made such an asinine proposal.

So your idea is move Neal, a 40 goal scorer last year, in a package including Boyle and Stepan, and then flip Boyle and Stepan (or Sutter, or Vitale) for a replacement goal scoring winger?

Or, I don't know, maybe just keep the goal scoring winger already on the roster?

I know, probably crazy talk on my part.

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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
ok


This is not "(ha!)", this is ballpark close enough to be true.
Others have better shots, others are outstanding passers. But Letang is an outstanding D for overall playmaking skill based on his skating.

But on the flip side of defense while others are arguably stronger or more excelled in a given area, IMO Staal is the single best shutdown D in the league IF your criteria is overall ability, to skate fast enough and check a strong, bigger elite F, play great position, and block shots, the whole D package... then yes, you may prefer one or the other, particularly based on a given need, but Staal and Letang are counterparts one excelling on offense, the other magnificent on D.
So why does either team make a lateral move?



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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
planet earth! What part of my explanation did you not get?
Stepan = former 2nd = Boyle a former 1st, then add the huge factor that you have an idea of their productive value, which is established NOW, and they are actually available in this deal to contribute NOW. These two are not AHLers that need gelling, or the draft picks, which must wait a couple of years min to develop, assuming they do.
Eric Tangradi is a former 2nd round pick. I will trade him to the Rangers for Stepan.

Additionally, feeling generous, I will trade you a 6th round pick for Henrik Lundqvist. This is a steal for you, as Lundqvist was only a 7th round pick.

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02-09-2013, 03:54 PM
  #193
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Letang is going nowhere! He is one of the Penguins untouchables.

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02-09-2013, 04:08 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by Dark Knight View Post
I can totally understand why Penguins might not want to do that but this is a deal you do when you need a shake up.

Penguins have a formidable roster and unless they either choke these playoffs where they realize they needed more scoring up front, or struggle in the regular season they might not want to disrupt their core.

This is what it'll take for Kessel, though. Quality in return, no quantity needed.

We have good young players in the farm.

Our D will be so mobilke with Letang, Rielly, Gardiner and Phaneuf. It would be amazing to see.
Letang-Phaneuf would give us an actual top pairing. It would be great. This is the kind of quality for quality deal I'd like Kessel to get moved for if we can't get a big package back.

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02-09-2013, 04:29 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by leugangen View Post
Kessel for Letang.
Pittsburgh should have absolutely no interest in Kessel and wouldn't be interested in trading a Norris finalist for Kessel. Kessel wouldn't get it done straight up. No chance.

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02-09-2013, 04:30 PM
  #196
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Kessel for Letang.
And some of your brethren said Pens fans' offers for Kulemin were outrageous.

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02-09-2013, 05:53 PM
  #197
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We didn't wait this long to get a true number 1 guy on defense coming through the system just to trade him away once he has fully blossomed. No, he's going to be the leader of the defense throughout the Crosby/Malkin Penguins era. The only way that changes is if Letang decides to not sign back on which seems pretty unlikely.

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02-09-2013, 07:14 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by SuburbanRhythm View Post
,,,
Quote:
You weren't wrong in theory...but in practice, it makes zero sense for Pittsburgh.
Open to interpretation, see below.

Quote:
But I understand, you aren't concerned with Pittsburgh, ....
Don't believe the total return insults Pens. You got 2 all star D, a net of one additional high quality; also Pitt nets 2 useful Cs. You ignore both of these facts.

As a result unarguably you do have a better D, and you have more depth. The transgression upon me is for varying outside the OP which sought a top W straight up. My prop asks you to think outside the box, consider you can repurpose some assets required and/or some assets you had which are NOW expendable, and come up with either a top W, or perhaps 2 significant Ws.

However, having been empowered by my suggestion, you then have to follow through and decide to what follow up you choose.

Letang approx = Staal
Girardi is most of Neal

Stepan + Boyle are known commodities, another fact you ignore, + with a second are not unreasonable vs. two firsts likely to be late.

You did not acknowledge that productive players have established worth. Picks obviously have value, but you still have to both hope they make it big, and almost without exception you have to wait for them to develop.


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... otherwise you wouldn't have made such an asinine proposal.
Hey! Watch it or I'll have to call you for misconduct and unsportsmanlike.

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So your idea is move Neal, a 40 goal scorer last year, in a package including Boyle and Stepan, and then flip Boyle and Stepan (or Sutter, or Vitale) for a replacement goal scoring winger?
If you prefer that instead of keeping all of them and putting, say, Malkin on W. Or just another example of the flexibility I created is you could move one of your D [supplanted by Girardi] for a sniper straight up, or add one of the Fs for presumably a better sniper, or two snipers.

Quote:
Or, I don't know, maybe just keep the goal scoring winger already on the roster?
That's also possible.
Staal + X for Letang + Y

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I know, probably crazy talk on my part.
That's your diagnosis, not mine. Physician, heal thyself.

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So why does either team make a lateral move?
I didn't say they do a straight up 1 for 1 swap, even though Pens would have slightly better D and Rangers would have better offense with expert puck mover. Rangers do not want to move their snipers, so came up with alternate values since you have scoring already, with the assets you acquire able to suggest getting 1-2 better Ws.


Quote:
Eric Tangradi is a former 2nd round pick. I will trade him to the Rangers for Stepan.
You lack a grasp of the obvious.
Tangradi past his prime <<<< than Stepan slowly entering his prime.

Quote:
Additionally, feeling generous, I will trade you a 6th round pick for Henrik Lundqvist. This is a steal for you, as Lundqvist was only a 7th round pick.
Surely, you are worthy of better comments...


Last edited by spiny norman: 02-09-2013 at 10:56 PM. Reason: not needed
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02-09-2013, 07:16 PM
  #199
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I'd give Kane and a 1st for Letang, but I doubt Pittsburgh takes that package.

Enstrom-Bogosian
Letang-Byfuglien

That would be an awesome top 4.

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02-09-2013, 07:32 PM
  #200
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Letang, Dupuis, and Harrington for Perry and Fowler?

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