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2012-2013 Rangers Prospects Thread (Player Stats in Post #1; Updated 3/11) *Part II*

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Old
02-09-2013, 12:43 AM
  #526
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Very confident in Fast, Lindberg, Skjei, Nieves, and McIlrath to be NHL players.

Noreau is also really intriguing.

Skjei may never put up a lot of points, but he's very intelligent and solid positioning.

Unsure about the rest.

But still hopeful on St. Croix, Hrivik, Jean, and Fogarty.

But the first 5 guys mentioned above are near locks at the rate they are developing.

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02-09-2013, 12:55 AM
  #527
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Skjei is compared to Brett Hedican which is just fine with me. I'll take a solid good skating stay at home Dman who can play 1,000+ NHL Games any day of the week.

As for Sather, he's more like a movie producer nowadays who gives the final ok. He definitely has a say but his team which includes Clark, Gorton, Schoenfeld, Hedberg, Maxwell, Messier, Graves, and Luchenko all have a big say in the overall direction of the Rangers which is good.

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02-09-2013, 01:21 AM
  #528
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
I didn't say he doesn't deserve credit. And I've been one of his defenders in this regard for a long time.

But, Clark especially, and Gorton are really in the trenches in regards to player development and scouting.

Sather has put very good people in good places.
The most unsung aspect of how he turned a lousy start with the org. into where things are headed now. 180 degree turn around.

Clark
Gorton
Tort's
Schony

=

McDonagh
Stepan
Del Zotto
Kreider
Miller
McIlrath
Nieves
Skjei
Fasth
Lindberg and who knows who else. Amazing organizational depth development.

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02-09-2013, 02:43 AM
  #529
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Yeah that's the big problem here. Technically we need Richards because he is still a productive centerman (at least on the scoresheet), however I think it best benefits us in the long term to get rid of his contract ASAP because his on ice play has been far from impressive during his Ranger tenure here. I think he should be able to get a great return since 1Cs are the highest valued commodity in the NHL. The Rangers should get at the very least a good prospect, a filler roster player and a 1st Rounder from a team desperate enough for a 1C. Next year without Richards will be a mini-retooling period by 'letting the kids play' and they can look at the deadline for a guy like Pavelski and sign him to a long term deal.
The fate of Brad Richards will depend on Brad Richards. The last amnesty buyout period is after next season. If Richards shows further decline, I think that the Rangers brass MIGHT consider using this buyout on him. He would then have 6 seasons left on his contract with a $6,666,667 caphit, with him then being 34 years old. The retirement options are also limited and severely crippling as well as the new CBA stipulates penalties labeled recapture costs on these long term deals - which look terrible to me.

The carrying caphit is IMO simply too blatantly damaging for the organization as a whole moving fwd - at least not to consider it - ie using the buyout option. He would be the only player on the roster - except for Rick Nash - where the amnesty buyout option is even going to be considered. Not at all saying that it has to be used either.

And the trade options with that contract (even if NYR were to pay a big chunk of the actual money) do not look too realistic IMO. But if Richards finds his game - well he might get a pass from the top brass. We simply do not know enough here now to speculate.
Time will tell

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02-09-2013, 07:55 AM
  #530
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how has mcilrath been doing? with asham and boyle fighting for a spot, bickel sucking, and miller's success, is there a chance mcilrath breaks the roster? or is he wayyy more not ready than miller was?

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02-09-2013, 08:10 AM
  #531
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Originally Posted by mooskating View Post
how has mcilrath been doing? with asham and boyle fighting for a spot, bickel sucking, and miller's success, is there a chance mcilrath breaks the roster? or is he wayyy more not ready than miller was?
the forwards have nothing to do with McIlrath. He's the future 4/5 guy looking at our current roster, he just needs time to develop.

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02-09-2013, 11:11 AM
  #532
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
I didn't say he doesn't deserve credit. And I've been one of his defenders in this regard for a long time.

But, Clark especially, and Gorton are really in the trenches in regards to player development and scouting.

Sather has put very good people in good places.

Sorry, I wasn't clearly, but I wasn't addressing you directly, it was a general comment towards the board, and I cited your comment only because it was giving credit to people in the organization.

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Old
02-09-2013, 11:22 AM
  #533
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Very confident in Fast, Lindberg, Skjei, Nieves, and McIlrath to be NHL players.

Noreau is also really intriguing.

Skjei may never put up a lot of points, but he's very intelligent and solid positioning.

Unsure about the rest.

But still hopeful on St. Croix, Hrivik, Jean, and Fogarty.

But the first 5 guys mentioned above are near locks at the rate they are developing.

I agree that Fasth, Lindberg and McIlrath will be NHLers. All three are ready now or almost ready and should be in the NHL some time next season.

It's tough to say that Skjei and Nieves are guarantees of any kind. Let's keep in mind that a late first rounder has only a 33% chance of making the NHL and a late second stands at about 12%-15%. Granted that both, especially Nieves, had excellent half a season post-draft, but it's still have a season. I like both picks - LOVE the Nieves selection - but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

Hrivik, however, looks like he's close to the NHL. It is plausible, of course, that his game will plateau at the age of 21 (look at McColgan plateauing at 16), but someone who's a quality top-6 AHLer at the age of 21 is very likely to play in the NHL.

I like Jean too. Nobody is paying any attention to him, but he's not bad. Think of Boyle with better wheels. We'd like that Boyle, wouldn't we? I wish one of them would learn to shoot, instead of just hurling the puck slowly at the goaltender.

St. Croix isn't having a great season statistically in the WHL, don't know much else. I'd guess that the odds of either MSC or Thomas making it are 25-75, so it's still 50-50 that one of them will become a second liner. (If they make it, it will be as scorers.)

There's nothing about Foggy that intrigues. I haven't seen anything great about him when I watched him. He's a 4th liner in college and was a 3rd liner in the third-rate BCHL. Even on a great BCHL team, he should still have been a first liner because that league's quality is significantly worse than college or juniors. I just don't see how he's a superior prospect to Yogan, who at the same age was his team's scoring leader in juniors, has more size, more speed and better hands.

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Old
02-09-2013, 11:31 AM
  #534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
I think Miller could be ready to fill in for a 2C role next year if he develops chemistry with Kreider and Callahan. Nieves, I hope he spends 2-3 more years in college and becomes one of the best players there before turning pro.

On the one hand, people expect Nieves to be a guaranteed NHLer, on the other they think he'll be in college another three seasons.

If he's in college for 3 more years, something went wrong. He's already a first liner. When I said this before, people claimed it is only because he's on a weak team, but I don't believe it. Anyone who watched him knows that he'd be top-6 on any college team. The guy is the best player on the ice half the games. He's great.

I think he plays the next season in college and then moves over to the AHL. It makes no sense to keep him in college when both his size and skills will allow him to take regular shift in the AHL.

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02-09-2013, 11:34 AM
  #535
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Yeah that's the big problem here. Technically we need Richards because he is still a productive centerman (at least on the scoresheet), however I think it best benefits us in the long term to get rid of his contract ASAP because his on ice play has been far from impressive during his Ranger tenure here. I think he should be able to get a great return since 1Cs are the highest valued commodity in the NHL. The Rangers should get at the very least a good prospect, a filler roster player and a 1st Rounder from a team desperate enough for a 1C. Next year without Richards will be a mini-retooling period by 'letting the kids play' and they can look at the deadline for a guy like Pavelski and sign him to a long term deal.

The problem with this theory is that Lundqvist will be 32 by then. If we don't have a quick replacement for him, we've wasted his career without giving him the Cup. Honestly, had he been drafted by Detroit or another team that was good the last 8 years, he'd have been a guaranteed Hall of Famer by now with multiple Cups under his belt.

* I'm assuming we don't have to buy out Richards this summer. From what I understand, we can do it next year?

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02-09-2013, 11:56 AM
  #536
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Originally Posted by Beacon View Post
On the one hand, people expect Nieves to be a guaranteed NHLer, on the other they think he'll be in college another three seasons.

If he's in college for 3 more years, something went wrong. He's already a first liner. When I said this before, people claimed it is only because he's on a weak team, but I don't believe it. Anyone who watched him knows that he'd be top-6 on any college team. The guy is the best player on the ice half the games. He's great.

I think he plays the next season in college and then moves over to the AHL. It makes no sense to keep him in college when both his size and skills will allow him to take regular shift in the AHL.
Seems like Stepan would be a good comparison for Nieves. Except Boo is bigger and a better skater, which is always welcomed. I think if he dominates his sophomore year and he "wow"s at the 2014 WJC (assuming he makes the team) he should leave Michigan after his 2nd year.

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02-09-2013, 12:14 PM
  #537
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Yeah that's the big problem here. Technically we need Richards because he is still a productive centerman (at least on the scoresheet), however I think it best benefits us in the long term to get rid of his contract ASAP because his on ice play has been far from impressive during his Ranger tenure here. I think he should be able to get a great return since 1Cs are the highest valued commodity in the NHL. The Rangers should get at the very least a good prospect, a filler roster player and a 1st Rounder from a team desperate enough for a 1C. Next year without Richards will be a mini-retooling period by 'letting the kids play' and they can look at the deadline for a guy like Pavelski and sign him to a long term deal.
Richards has a full NMC. He won't be moved and he won't be bought out this summer. There's absolutely zero chance. We acquired Nash because we want to compete for the cup and the chances are much much higher with Richards in the lineup next season than without.

Then in 2014 with several big contracts running out and the last possibility of the amnesty buyout, they might consider buying Richards out depending on his play and the general look and direction of the team. But this and next season are the two years with the best chance to win the cup with our current core.

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Old
02-09-2013, 12:21 PM
  #538
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Yes, the Richards dilemma will be decided in June 2014. He's got 1 1/2 seasons left to show us what he's got.

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02-09-2013, 12:22 PM
  #539
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Some of you are commenting as if the Rangers are still rebuilding. This is a win now organization and will be from here on out. Young players will fit in if they earn spots. In most cases, you can't project how they will pan out but the more good prospects you have the better. All personnel decisions will be made through a "win now" fuilter, including trading young players.

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02-09-2013, 12:24 PM
  #540
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I just read an article about Fast. Really exciting. It was obviously a bit of a fluff piece but sounds like he has it all (other than maybe size). Anyone else feel like the Sangs draft pick wasn't a waste because we got him (as well as the pick that turned into Erixon, that turned into Nash) in the trade. Trade seems like a steal. Would we be complaining if we ended up with Fasth in Sangs' spot in 06 (other than that Girioux was taken next)? Seems like with his current path, like he would have made a solid pick at the end of the first round.

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02-09-2013, 12:36 PM
  #541
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I saw Sweden vs Russia today in the EHT.

I would be very supirsed if Oscar Lindberg made the WCH's team. He played a decent game, but the speed is too high for him at this level. He works hard, but his skill level is a tad below avg.

Natrually Russia is a good team, but a player that would have jumped straight into the NHL and made a positive impact would certainly stand out more at this level than Lindberg have.

Jesper Fasth has played with pretty weak linemates but had a pretty decent game. He was decent on the forecheck and he protected the puck well along the boards. Didn't get much going offensively.

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02-09-2013, 12:42 PM
  #542
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Is that his 1st point since Oct.?
I watched the whole Minnesota game last night. Skjei is a player. His skating is awesome and he is gaining confidence with each shift. He wins battles, moves the puck smartly and carries it up the ice (only sometimes because his partner may be the best offensive defenseman in NCAA hockey). He reminds me alot of McD when he was at Wisconsin. Very similar skill set. the future is very bright for this kid.

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02-09-2013, 12:46 PM
  #543
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
I saw Sweden vs Russia today in the EHT.

I would be very supirsed if Oscar Lindberg made the WCH's team. He played a decent game, but the speed is too high for him at this level. He works hard, but his skill level is a tad below avg.

Natrually Russia is a good team, but a player that would have jumped straight into the NHL and made a positive impact would certainly stand out more at this level than Lindberg have.

Jesper Fasth has played with pretty weak linemates but had a pretty decent game. He was decent on the forecheck and he protected the puck well along the boards. Didn't get much going offensively.
Ola, how do you think Fasth progressed? I just read his draft thread. You seemed high on him and said that he was a high potential pick. Do you think so far he has lived up to it?

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02-09-2013, 02:03 PM
  #544
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooskating View Post
how has mcilrath been doing? with asham and boyle fighting for a spot, bickel sucking, and miller's success, is there a chance mcilrath breaks the roster? or is he wayyy more not ready than miller was?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCresty View Post
the forwards have nothing to do with McIlrath. He's the future 4/5 guy looking at our current roster, he just needs time to develop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beacon View Post
I agree that Fasth, Lindberg and McIlrath will be NHLers. All three are ready now or almost ready and should be in the NHL some time next season.
I have no idea if Mcilrath is ready. Last week against Bridgeport he didn't look ready, where are the scouting reports about how he is playing defense. We hear about his fights, what about his play??

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Some of you are commenting as if the Rangers are still rebuilding. This is a win now organization and will be from here on out. Young players will fit in if they earn spots. In most cases, you can't project how they will pan out but the more good prospects you have the better. All personnel decisions will be made through a "win now" fuilter, including trading young players.
Excellent note.

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I watched the whole Minnesota game last night. Skjei is a player. His skating is awesome and he is gaining confidence with each shift. He wins battles, moves the puck smartly and carries it up the ice (only sometimes because his partner may be the best offensive defenseman in NCAA hockey). He reminds me alot of McD when he was at Wisconsin. Very similar skill set. the future is very bright for this kid.
He's had problems playing his position. Being on a powerhouse team covers up some of those mistakes. Thats okay, he's a freshman and he'll learn, but lets not get ahead of ourselves.

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02-09-2013, 03:49 PM
  #545
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
I have no idea if Mcilrath is ready. Last week against Bridgeport he didn't look ready, where are the scouting reports about how he is playing defense. We hear about his fights, what about his play??



Excellent note.



He's had problems playing his position. Being on a powerhouse team covers up some of those mistakes. Thats okay, he's a freshman and he'll learn, but lets not get ahead of ourselves.
Do you mean professional scouting reports or just random people from here talking about him because I've seen beacon and a few others do that several times. Decision making and thinking lags but his skating is superb especially for his size but it's just overall good for any size. Haven't seen many comments about his presence in the crease though many talked about how he was being used to make up for gilroy's mistakes and did so adequately

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02-09-2013, 04:04 PM
  #546
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Originally Posted by shinchanyo View Post
Do you mean professional scouting reports or just random people from here talking about him because I've seen beacon and a few others do that several times. Decision making and thinking lags but his skating is superb especially for his size but it's just overall good for any size. Haven't seen many comments about his presence in the crease though many talked about how he was being used to make up for gilroy's mistakes and did so adequately
The bold could have been said about him any of the past 3 seasons.

There has got to be more than that, whether its strengths or weaknesses, especially now that some get to see him on the regular.

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02-09-2013, 04:18 PM
  #547
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I agree that Fasth, Lindberg and McIlrath will be NHLers. All three are ready now or almost ready and should be in the NHL some time next season.

It's tough to say that Skjei and Nieves are guarantees of any kind. Let's keep in mind that a late first rounder has only a 33% chance of making the NHL and a late second stands at about 12%-15%. Granted that both, especially Nieves, had excellent half a season post-draft, but it's still have a season. I like both picks - LOVE the Nieves selection - but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

Hrivik, however, looks like he's close to the NHL. It is plausible, of course, that his game will plateau at the age of 21 (look at McColgan plateauing at 16), but someone who's a quality top-6 AHLer at the age of 21 is very likely to play in the NHL.

I like Jean too. Nobody is paying any attention to him, but he's not bad. Think of Boyle with better wheels. We'd like that Boyle, wouldn't we? I wish one of them would learn to shoot, instead of just hurling the puck slowly at the goaltender.

St. Croix isn't having a great season statistically in the WHL, don't know much else. I'd guess that the odds of either MSC or Thomas making it are 25-75, so it's still 50-50 that one of them will become a second liner. (If they make it, it will be as scorers.)

There's nothing about Foggy that intrigues. I haven't seen anything great about him when I watched him. He's a 4th liner in college and was a 3rd liner in the third-rate BCHL. Even on a great BCHL team, he should still have been a first liner because that league's quality is significantly worse than college or juniors. I just don't see how he's a superior prospect to Yogan, who at the same age was his team's scoring leader in juniors, has more size, more speed and better hands.
I'm worried about Hrivik's health. Because of the concussion. That's why I said I'm hopeful. I guess we have to see if he can return 100%.

McColgan I'm afraid of his size. Being small in Canadian juniors is OK. But not always at the pro level.

St. Croix has a lot of talent. But unsure how he will do away from the puck at the pro level or if his production from juniors will translate.

I agree its a while off yet for Nieves and Skjei but these two are really good. The size, skill, and smarts and skating that translate to pro hockey. Being young even for the NCAA they are playing against mostly older more mature competition. NCAA is a young adult league whereas CHL is a teenage league. Not as much a knock on the CHL as it is a compliment to players who can perform as freshmen in the NCAA.

I like their trajectory.

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02-09-2013, 04:27 PM
  #548
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I went back to the big thread about Nieves last year. A lot of people questioning his finishing skills and hockey sense, are those things still concerns? One poster named "mildlyinterested2" had a post that refuted those beliefs. here it is:

Quote:
Some data points on Nieves;

He will put on ~ 20 more pounds in next couple years...in family genetics...so his frame will be much more complete soon.

Feedback from Rangers development camp was strong - scored a highlight goal and beautiful assist...certainly displayed strong hockey sense around prospects, which are at a much higher level of skill than he has played with at Prep and USHL

USHL performance...In 13 games his stats per game were as good as the best 94' players...without benefit of acclimation...So if that is his performance with limited exposure/time to adjust, imagine what he would have done for a full season.

He is a natural playmaker, but has a very solid shot which he will utilize more now that he will be around players who will pass him the puck versus playing with players who a) did not know how to move the puck to him and b) mishandled passes that skilled players know how to finish.

Vision is exceptional...this will become apparent as he gets time with players at U of M and is surrounded by players who are positionally better than the players he was with the last 2 years.

Combine his eventual size with the better talent around him and it's a scary proposition. In 2 - 3 years I think it will be interesting to revisit this whole discussion.
So is this post closer to reality it seems, or were the criticisms valid?

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02-09-2013, 05:26 PM
  #549
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
I'm worried about Hrivik's health. Because of the concussion. That's why I said I'm hopeful. I guess we have to see if he can return 100%.

McColgan I'm afraid of his size. Being small in Canadian juniors is OK. But not always at the pro level.

St. Croix has a lot of talent. But unsure how he will do away from the puck at the pro level or if his production from juniors will translate.

I agree its a while off yet for Nieves and Skjei but these two are really good. The size, skill, and smarts and skating that translate to pro hockey. Being young even for the NCAA they are playing against mostly older more mature competition. NCAA is a young adult league whereas CHL is a teenage league. Not as much a knock on the CHL as it is a compliment to players who can perform as freshmen in the NCAA.

I like their trajectory.
Fair points on McColgan and St.Croix. Let's hope Hrivik makes it back this season.

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02-09-2013, 05:53 PM
  #550
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Whale up 3-1 after 1 at St. John's.

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