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Subban's play since coming back

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Old
02-09-2013, 07:37 AM
  #76
habsfanatics
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All I know is that I have been waiting for 3 years to have them both in the lineup consistently. I believe Subbans raw talent is higher than almost every dman in the league he just needs to learn how to harness it a bit better to put him over the top.

Markov is what I would call one of the top cerebral dman in the league, able to out think the opposition on a regular basis, with his smooth transition and unmatched patience and off the charts hockey sense he is truly elite when healthy and undoubtedly one of the top PP quarterbacks in the NHL, if not, number one on his own. He's made guys like Souray, streit, Komisarek play like All stars with career seasons with him on the pairing.

Subban can and will learn the finer points of the game by watching AM and playing along side him on the pp. If he can gain half of Markovs ability to read plays, when to jump and develop some patience. I believe Markov realizes that PK has a raw ability that he doesn't even have and views it as his duty to mentor PK into being the best dman he can be.

I think this is going to be a breakout year for PK with the tutelage of Andrei Markov. The sky is the limit for this kid and Markov knows it and will bring it all out.

Seeing Andrei Markov night in and night out is exactly what Subban needs. I've been waiting for these times for too long.

Edit: I have np with Therrien bringing PK along slowly, he'll be the top guy in no time. He probably feels it is unfair to the guys who have been on the roster since camp started to jut thrust PK into a top role while they're still playing well themselves. I agree with krisse to a certain extent on this. They are sheltering PK for his benefit and in the long run it should pay off. Let him take a regular shift and dominate weaker opponents for the time being, eventually he'll be leading the team in icetime and his teammates won't bat an eye at it. If you play him 25mins right off the hop it could cause an unnecessary friction with the other dman who are showing some success.


Last edited by habsfanatics: 02-09-2013 at 07:43 AM.
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Old
02-09-2013, 07:47 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
He's made guys like Souray, streit, Komisarek play like All stars with career seasons with him on the pairing.
Please.

Komisarek was an independently good player in 2007-08. In 2008-09, when he was still playing with the same Markov, he played quite badly.

Sourray and Streit are independently good players, who had good seasons away from Markov. Streit had 56, 49, and 47 point seasons in Long Island, and Sourray had a 23 goal, 53 point season in Edmonton. He's playing real with Koivu in Anaheim this year.

As for Markov, his QBed power play was no longer number 1 in the league in 2008-09 after he lost Streit. I remember when we lost Streit, Habs were saying "it's not the player it's system", where "the system" meant "Markov passes the puck". The power play that year did not recover until Mathieu Schneider was picked up for a 2nd and 3rd rounder. Markov needed Schneider, and with Schneider, he rocked the PP.

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02-09-2013, 08:18 AM
  #78
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I think he looks great and it won't surprise me if he wins a Norris at some point in his career. I've seen the analyst picks for the Olympics 2014 and he hasn't been on any of them and for the life of me I can't understand that.

Great blueliner and he's continued to develop his defensive game.

I remember when we drafted him he was supposed to be a one way blueliner but that hasn't been the case. He's been much, much better than I ever thought he'd be. Great guy to build our blueline around.
Not only that but PK was also terrific in his last Junior Championship. He was an integral part of Team Canada's defense. So he's proven himself capable of stepping up during international games.
In the POs, he's also been solid.
So, we know PK does well in big games. That's not something that should be overlooked when building a roster.

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02-09-2013, 08:21 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Please.

Komisarek was an independently good player in 2007-08. In 2008-09, when he was still playing with the same Markov, he played quite badly.

Sourray and Streit are independently good players, who had good seasons away from Markov. Streit had 56, 49, and 47 point seasons in Long Island, and Sourray had a 23 goal, 53 point season in Edmonton. He's playing real with Koivu in Anaheim this year.

As for Markov, his QBed power play was no longer number 1 in the league in 2008-09 after he lost Streit. I remember when we lost Streit, Habs were saying "it's not the player it's system", where "the system" meant "Markov passes the puck". The power play that year did not recover until Mathieu Schneider was picked up for a 2nd and 3rd rounder. Markov needed Schneider, and with Schneider, he rocked the PP.
Not going to disagree completely, but it's foolish to think Markov didn't help those guys. Anybody playing next to elite talent benefits from it.

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02-09-2013, 08:37 AM
  #80
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I understand that Subban is a net added value in terms of talent.

Yet what is his impact on the team ?

often a bunch of well diciplined hard working players > a bunch of stars with ego conflicts !!

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02-09-2013, 08:41 AM
  #81
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I understand that Subban is a net added value in terms of talent.

Yet what is his impact on the team ?

often a bunch of well diciplined hard working players > a bunch of stars with ego conflicts !!
It's all or nothing with you, eh?

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Old
02-09-2013, 08:43 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Please.

Komisarek was an independently good player in 2007-08. In 2008-09, when he was still playing with the same Markov, he played quite badly.

Sourray and Streit are independently good players, who had good seasons away from Markov. Streit had 56, 49, and 47 point seasons in Long Island, and Sourray had a 23 goal, 53 point season in Edmonton. He's playing real with Koivu in Anaheim this year.

As for Markov, his QBed power play was no longer number 1 in the league in 2008-09 after he lost Streit. I remember when we lost Streit, Habs were saying "it's not the player it's system", where "the system" meant "Markov passes the puck". The power play that year did not recover until Mathieu Schneider was picked up for a 2nd and 3rd rounder. Markov needed Schneider, and with Schneider, he rocked the PP.
common denominator : Andrei Markov.

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02-09-2013, 08:45 AM
  #83
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I'd love to see emelin - subban pairing. Get demolished on both sides. Seriously though, emelin can't destroys people on his off side

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Old
02-09-2013, 09:28 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Please.

Komisarek was an independently good player in 2007-08. In 2008-09, when he was still playing with the same Markov, he played quite badly.

Sourray and Streit are independently good players, who had good seasons away from Markov. Streit had 56, 49, and 47 point seasons in Long Island, and Sourray had a 23 goal, 53 point season in Edmonton. He's playing real with Koivu in Anaheim this year.

As for Markov, his QBed power play was no longer number 1 in the league in 2008-09 after he lost Streit. I remember when we lost Streit, Habs were saying "it's not the player it's system", where "the system" meant "Markov passes the puck". The power play that year did not recover until Mathieu Schneider was picked up for a 2nd and 3rd rounder. Markov needed Schneider, and with Schneider, he rocked the PP.
Yes, because Souray, komisarek have lit the world on fire without him. They all had their best seasons with Markov. All of them, including Streit.

Markov isn't the shooter, but he sets the whole thing up. The whole PP funnels through him. Always has and always will until the day he retires.

No one said that they were bad players, only that they were all-stars with Markov and all had career bests. Try arguing what was said instead of making fabrications and then arguing against those fabrications please. It makes for a more civil conversation.

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02-09-2013, 09:51 AM
  #85
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Subban makes the top ten most hated players by SI.
WOW, how the heck can they just say stuff like that.
Almost every player in the west has played against him at most only once.
In the east just who can point to one play that Subban did some kind of dirty thing on the ice. Hits are clean. no huge elbows, no baseball swing stick infractions, no knee hits. So what exactly has he done??????
He is a hot dog? he is black? so which one is his causing this great HATE?
No one will admit to " the Black thing" so that leaves " HOT DOG"
WHat makes people mad is the fact that his is GOOD and a HOT DOG.
if he were a HOT DOG but makes huge mistakes and never scores and never hits and never plays well people would just laugh at him as a clown. The HATE comes from the fact that he is GOOD. SO in the end they hate him because he is GOOD. A game breaker at times SO here comes the jealousy and the Hate. SO I guess I should HATE Crosby or OV or Malkin I guess. SI is all about making a big splash in print. I would think this is actually a hidden or veiled attempt at pointing to the BLACK thing just to stir up ****tttttt and sell mags.

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02-09-2013, 10:04 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RC51 View Post
Subban makes the top ten most hated players by SI.
WOW, how the heck can they just say stuff like that.
Almost every player in the west has played against him at most only once.
In the east just who can point to one play that Subban did some kind of dirty thing on the ice. Hits are clean. no huge elbows, no baseball swing stick infractions, no knee hits. So what exactly has he done??????
He is a hot dog? he is black? so which one is his causing this great HATE?
No one will admit to " the Black thing" so that leaves " HOT DOG"
WHat makes people mad is the fact that his is GOOD and a HOT DOG.
if he were a HOT DOG but makes huge mistakes and never scores and never hits and never plays well people would just laugh at him as a clown. The HATE comes from the fact that he is GOOD. SO in the end they hate him because he is GOOD. A game breaker at times SO here comes the jealousy and the Hate. SO I guess I should HATE Crosby or OV or Malkin I guess. SI is all about making a big splash in print. I would think this is actually a hidden or veiled attempt at pointing to the BLACK thing just to stir up ****tttttt and sell mags.
He's an agitator on the ice as well. He likes to talk smack and get under other people's skin. Plus he's an awesome player, kind of guy that others hate to play against.

I wouldn't worry too much about it man. They hated Chelios too.

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02-09-2013, 10:10 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RC51 View Post
Subban makes the top ten most hated players by SI.
WOW, how the heck can they just say stuff like that.
Almost every player in the west has played against him at most only once.
In the east just who can point to one play that Subban did some kind of dirty thing on the ice. Hits are clean. no huge elbows, no baseball swing stick infractions, no knee hits. So what exactly has he done??????
He is a hot dog? he is black? so which one is his causing this great HATE?
No one will admit to " the Black thing" so that leaves " HOT DOG"
WHat makes people mad is the fact that his is GOOD and a HOT DOG.
if he were a HOT DOG but makes huge mistakes and never scores and never hits and never plays well people would just laugh at him as a clown. The HATE comes from the fact that he is GOOD. SO in the end they hate him because he is GOOD. A game breaker at times SO here comes the jealousy and the Hate. SO I guess I should HATE Crosby or OV or Malkin I guess. SI is all about making a big splash in print. I would think this is actually a hidden or veiled attempt at pointing to the BLACK thing just to stir up ****tttttt and sell mags.
The fact that he is hated means one thing. He's doing something right.

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02-09-2013, 11:30 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
The fact that he is hated means one thing. He's doing something right.
not really.

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02-09-2013, 11:35 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Not going to disagree completely, but it's foolish to think Markov didn't help those guys. Anybody playing next to elite talent benefits from it.
I know a lot of folks deny it but that goes both ways. Souray and Komisarek both provided the grit the Markov lacks. That's why they worked so well together. And I agree wtih DAChampion, Komisarek was an absolute beast until getting clobbered and then was inexplicably never the same player again.

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02-09-2013, 11:44 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Please.

Komisarek was an independently good player in 2007-08. In 2008-09, when he was still playing with the same Markov, he played quite badly.

Sourray and Streit are independently good players, who had good seasons away from Markov. Streit had 56, 49, and 47 point seasons in Long Island, and Sourray had a 23 goal, 53 point season in Edmonton. He's playing real with Koivu in Anaheim this year.

As for Markov, his QBed power play was no longer number 1 in the league in 2008-09 after he lost Streit. I remember when we lost Streit, Habs were saying "it's not the player it's system", where "the system" meant "Markov passes the puck". The power play that year did not recover until Mathieu Schneider was picked up for a 2nd and 3rd rounder. Markov needed Schneider, and with Schneider, he rocked the PP.
This...this and this. I keep hearing how Markov makes every single person better and how he's this legendary player. Markov is damn good but no one ever brings up how bad we were on the PP without Streit or that Komi had a terrible season in his last year with Markov.

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02-09-2013, 12:06 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
This...this and this. I keep hearing how Markov makes every single person better and how he's this legendary player. Markov is damn good but no one ever brings up how bad we were on the PP without Streit or that Komi had a terrible season in his last year with Markov.
that's ONE season.


as for the PP, you just have to look at our PP this year, wih Diaz, Subban and others on D as well as Plekanec, Gionta, Cole, Patches, DD, etc on forward we were really bad last season... now the same players make the PP click, well same players -> plus Markov...

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02-09-2013, 12:27 PM
  #92
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Subban his a stud and will just get better has years go by. He played well since his return.

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02-09-2013, 12:28 PM
  #93
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Rask wasn't impressed by his scoring touch -


"It's a big rivalry but it feels good to win," said Rask. "I knew they were going to crash the net a lot, like those in-tight plays. They missed a couple of times in the first, and they got a lucky goal in the second."

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02-09-2013, 12:50 PM
  #94
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He is the complete package, great vision, great skater, heavy shot. Imagine P.K. In 5 years he will be a dominant player.
hmmmmm...

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I know Therrien wants to protect Subban and give him favorable minutes but he needs to realize and quick that he is our best overall dman out there in front of Markov yes.

Safe to say since he is back he's the best dman on the team.
Quoi?

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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
This...this and this. I keep hearing how Markov makes every single person better and how he's this legendary player. Markov is damn good but no one ever brings up how bad we were on the PP without Streit or that Komi had a terrible season in his last year with Markov.
The PP struggled because we had no point shot. I don't know how anyone can argue against the fact that Markov made all those players play above their heads. Komisarek went to the All-Star game hahaha. He's far and away better than any player we have except Price. He makes everyone around him better.

It really trips me out how people see Subban as a player. I love the guy and want him on my team but my god he gets so overrated here. I can't stand the guys turnovers and stupid penalties. What you guys see as an excellent zone clear, I see as a wasted opportunity to get the puck up to the forwards. If he could just calm down and get his head up when he has the puck, he'd be sooo much better. When he makes his crazy pivots and dipsy doodles to beat a forechecker, I want to see him make a great, quick pass after, not a 50 foot high clear on his backhand, or skating himself into a corner in the Ozone when there are options everywhere.

I'm banking on Markov being healthy and PK getting to learn from him all year on the little plays and having poise with the puck, because if PK had that then we can start talking about team Canada and him being a dominant defender! For now though, everyone slow down and please stop comparing him to Chris Chelios... What a joke!

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02-09-2013, 12:52 PM
  #95
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... Komisarek went to the All-Star Game because we as fans sent him there, not because he deserved to be there.

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02-09-2013, 12:52 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by LaTenderness View Post
Rask wasn't impressed by his scoring touch -


"It's a big rivalry but it feels good to win," said Rask. "I knew they were going to crash the net a lot, like those in-tight plays. They missed a couple of times in the first, and they got a lucky goal in the second."
It was a lucky goal, a deflection off a stick, but such things happen often in hockey. Rask was hot but he had his share of luck, and maybe more, in that game.

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02-09-2013, 01:03 PM
  #97
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It really trips me out how people see Subban as a player. I love the guy and want him on my team but my god he gets so overrated here. I can't stand the guys turnovers and stupid penalties. What you guys see as an excellent zone clear, I see as a wasted opportunity to get the puck up to the forwards. If he could just calm down and get his head up when he has the puck, he'd be sooo much better. When he makes his crazy pivots and dipsy doodles to beat a forechecker, I want to see him make a great, quick pass after, not a 50 foot high clear on his backhand, or skating himself into a corner in the Ozone when there are options everywhere.
this

and the reason is quite simple : kid is flashy.

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02-09-2013, 01:12 PM
  #98
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... Komisarek went to the All-Star Game because we as fans sent him there, not because he deserved to be there.
Obviously. Would we, the fans have voted him in if Markov weren't there to cover up all of his flaws?

Point remains, Markov makes/made everyone better.
Quote:
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this

and the reason is quite simple : kid is flashy.
Absolutely. I've never seen someone chip the puck off the boards so extravagantly before. Lol. But that's not to take away from his ability, because it's obvious that he's got potential. Just sloooww down there guys. Look beyond the flashiness and judge him accordingly.

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02-09-2013, 01:59 PM
  #99
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he's playing well.

couple dumb penalties, but I have been otherwise impressed.

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02-09-2013, 03:02 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by HankyZetts View Post
Obviously. Would we, the fans have voted him in if Markov weren't there to cover up all of his flaws?

Point remains, Markov makes/made everyone better.


Absolutely. I've never seen someone chip the puck off the boards so extravagantly before. Lol. But that's not to take away from his ability, because it's obvious that he's got potential. Just sloooww down there guys. Look beyond the flashiness and judge him accordingly.
The decision making comes with time, and being able to watch/talk with Markov will just accelerate that. He has the strength, puck handling skills and skating ability to defuse tough situations in our defensive zone like no one else on our team. I've noticed what you're pointing out in seasons passed, but in the games I've watched, haven't seen all of them and that might be why, I haven't noticed him making poor decisions really. In fact I've noticed him making the simple pass after he's made the first fore checker miss the majority of the time.

Really, most levels of his game are already at a top tier, if not elite, level. The things he needs to improve on most are things that take time and experience. The good news is he's still very young, especially considering how long it usually takes dmen to even break into the league. His decision making, and ability to read the play will improve as he gets older, and if he is able to develop that part of his game to near Markov's level, it would be unreal.
Markov's ability to read the play is uncanny. Even with his decreased mobility, due to his injuries I assume, he's always right on players receiving passes in the neutral zone, breaking plays up before they even have time to materialize.

Anyway, the Habs are fun to watch right now, and I hope they can keep this up all season.

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