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DW looking for another winger

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Old
02-08-2013, 09:58 PM
  #326
Pinkfloyd
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To hell with getting anyone like Read or Voracek or Simmonds. If the Sharks are lucky enough to get anything out of Clowe and Murray, they should take it and run. Getting either of those three would be a huge bonus, no doubt. However, I just don't see them carrying enough value as rentals for those guys and I really don't want to see what they'd have to add to get one of those guys.

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02-09-2013, 12:26 AM
  #327
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Why is it Clowe and Murray are our only assets many of you think we have. Is this a we give up our junk and get your good young player back... Come on, to get a good young player (which is what we need!) with cap years you have to give up a good young player with cap years or picks in return. This would suggest Demers/Braun have to be a core part of a package going out...

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02-09-2013, 01:17 AM
  #328
SactoShork
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Clowe is better than Simmonds.

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02-09-2013, 01:20 AM
  #329
SactoShork
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At everything relating to the playing of hockey.

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02-09-2013, 01:55 AM
  #330
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Originally Posted by SactoShark View Post
At everything relating to the playing of hockey.
Skating faster than I can run relates to playing hockey....

Honestly Clowe and Murray are so slow at this point Handzus could skate circles around them.

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02-09-2013, 04:03 AM
  #331
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Murray is slow. Clowe just plays slow.

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02-09-2013, 05:42 AM
  #332
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Originally Posted by SactoShark View Post
At everything relating to the playing of hockey.
Clowe is better than Simmonds at everything related to the playing of hockey except for skating, goalscoring, and defense. Don't let your dislike for Simmonds get in the way of reality. Simmonds has the agitator role mastered; he is well-versed at pulling petty moves that enrage both opposing fans and players. Clowe, while certainly being a great and loyal teammate, is unfortunately often the person that can't control his emotions in the presence of a player like Simmonds and whom proceeds to take 35 minutes in penalties trying to teach him a "lesson." While Clowe is a better offensive zone player than Simmonds, especially when it comes to possession, I might remind you that there are 3 zones in hockey. Clowe is hilariously inept in two of them. His lack of even mediocre footspeed causes him to be a major defensive liability, a large part which has to do with him not being able to get off the ice when his linemates do, and subsequently being stuck out there well past his shift. Clowe is highly effective along the boards in the area from the faceoff dots to behind the net. Simmonds may not be the offensive zone force that Clowe is, but he is a far, far superior 3-zone player that is heavily involved in everything the Flyers do. He's also 24. Clowe is 30.

One thing I will say is that Simmonds does not fit the puck possession style that the Sharks play as well as Clowe does. Clowe is actually a fairly important part of the second line because he is essentially a poor man's Joe Thornton when it comes to controlling the puck along the boards in the offensive zone. A very, very poor man's Thornton that is prone to try things with the puck that indicate that he sometimes forgets that he isn't quite as talented as Thornton is. But he does play an important role in the style that the Sharks play. I think of him as a more skilled version of Tomas Holmstrom playing in an almost identical system. Clowe is more of a playmaker than Holmstrom was, and is far more vital to his team's puck possession than he was, but he also isn't anywhere close to the Holmstrom-level front-of-the-net presence. Holmstrom's infamous rear end was as important to Detroit's powerplay as anything provided by the plethora of Hall of Famers (Lidstrom and Fedorov especially) that were on the ice with him. Clowe is more of an even-strength player. Which is good, but also not something that is irreplaceable.


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Old
02-09-2013, 08:28 AM
  #333
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Originally Posted by Blades of Glory View Post
Clowe is better than Simmonds at everything related to the playing of hockey except for skating, goalscoring, and defense. Don't let your dislike for Simmonds get in the way of reality. Simmonds has the agitator role mastered; he is well-versed at pulling petty moves that enrage both opposing fans and players. Clowe, while certainly being a great and loyal teammate, is unfortunately often the person that can't control his emotions in the presence of a player like Simmonds and whom proceeds to take 35 minutes in penalties trying to teach him a "lesson." While Clowe is a better offensive zone player than Simmonds, especially when it comes to possession, I might remind you that there are 3 zones in hockey. Clowe is hilariously inept in two of them. His lack of even mediocre footspeed causes him to be a major defensive liability, a large part which has to do with him not being able to get off the ice when his linemates do, and subsequently being stuck out there well past his shift. Clowe is highly effective along the boards in the area from the faceoff dots to behind the net. Simmonds may not be the offensive zone force that Clowe is, but he is a far, far superior 3-zone player that is heavily involved in everything the Flyers do. He's also 24. Clowe is 30.

One thing I will say is that Simmonds does not fit the puck possession style that the Sharks play as well as Clowe does. Clowe is actually a fairly important part of the second line because he is essentially a poor man's Joe Thornton when it comes to controlling the puck along the boards in the offensive zone. A very, very poor man's Thornton that is prone to try things with the puck that indicate that he sometimes forgets that he isn't quite as talented as Thornton is. But he does play an important role in the style that the Sharks play. I think of him as a more skilled version of Tomas Holmstrom playing in an almost identical system. Clowe is more of a playmaker than Holmstrom was, and is far more vital to his team's puck possession than he was, but he also isn't anywhere close to the Holmstrom-level front-of-the-net presence. Holmstrom's infamous rear end was as important to Detroit's powerplay as anything provided by the plethora of Hall of Famers (Lidstrom and Fedorov especially) that were on the ice with him. Clowe is more of an even-strength player. Which is good, but also not something that is irreplaceable.
Good take on both players.. I dont think Simmonds is the answer either, plus he is getting paid 3.9mil x5yrs. Dont like that contract one bit..
DW needs to get something for him and trade him soon. Honestly, even if RC re-signed for $2m, he no longer has a place on this team. DW will trade him to a team in the NE so RC can be close to home.

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02-09-2013, 09:35 AM
  #334
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Voracek would make next years Cap tough, depending on Demers' demands if he isn't part of the deal. If you assume Galiardi, Desjardins, Sheppard, Irwin and Stalock all sign QOs, that would leave us with $2.3M for Demers and a 4th liner for a 20 man roster. We'd probably have to compliance buyout Burish, just to get some wiggle room. If we decide to try and re-sign Clowe, we would be in the similar situation if he's expecting a raise. I get the feeling that unless Galiardi or Sheppard make huge strides this year, we'll go into next season with only 5 top-6 forwards.

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Old
02-09-2013, 09:49 AM
  #335
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If we did trade for Voracek, it would make the cap tough but doable.

It'd certainly mean Murray & Clowe would be gone. Demers, too - he'd probably have to be included in a deal with the Flyers.

This is a 20-man roster:

FORWARDS
Patrick Marleau ($6.900m) / Joe Thornton ($7.000m) / Joe Pavelski ($4.000m)
Jakub Voracek ($4.250m) / Logan Couture ($2.875m) / Martin Havlat ($5.000m)
James Sheppard ($0.866m) / Scott Gomez ($1.000m) / Tommy Wingels ($0.775m)
Adam Burish ($1.850m) / Andrew Desjardins ($0.704m) / T.J. Galiardi ($0.998m)
DEFENSEMEN
Brad Stuart ($3.600m) / Brent Burns ($5.760m)
Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($4.250m) / Dan Boyle ($6.667m)
Matt Irwin ($0.715m) / Justin Braun ($1.250m)
GOALTENDERS
Antti Niemi ($3.800m)
Thomas Greiss ($0.601m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,859,917; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (20-man roster): $1,440,083
------

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Old
02-09-2013, 10:22 AM
  #336
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How bout Ryan ORiley for Burns straight up. We have depth in puck moving D
and we get a younger player and maybe are a little better off cap wise.

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02-09-2013, 10:34 AM
  #337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VP and GM View Post
How bout Ryan ORiley for Burns straight up. We have depth in puck moving D
and we get a younger player and maybe are a little better off cap wise.
lol we might have depth of puck moving D, but the sharks found out the hard way just how big of a difference there is between burns/boyle to demers/braun.

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02-09-2013, 10:35 AM
  #338
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Originally Posted by VP and GM View Post
How bout Ryan ORiley for Burns straight up. We have depth in puck moving D
and we get a younger player and maybe are a little better off cap wise.
Hell No!

A. Burns is the better player.
B. Burns has a good contract.
C. Burns is arguably our #1 Dman.

We may have some PMD depth but none of them are elite like Burns and Boyle. We don't need another center anyway.

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02-09-2013, 11:00 AM
  #339
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Past Boyle and burns is demers. Braun is average at best at moving the puck.

I'd hate to rely on demers and Braun for us to break out and get through the neutral zone.

Personally I think clowe is addition by subtraction at this point, but we do need a body coming back were we to trade him.

Do we want a tweener? I'd say no..I think wingels and sheppard can both fill in when needed.

Clowe/Murray need to be moved for a second line player. But who that is I don't know.

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02-09-2013, 11:00 AM
  #340
Alaskanice
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Hell No!

A. Burns is the better player.
B. Burns has a good contract.
C. Burns is arguably our #1 Dman.

We may have some PMD depth but none of them are elite like Burns and Boyle. We don't need another center anyway.
Burns ain't goin' anywheres.

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Old
02-09-2013, 11:21 AM
  #341
AslanRH
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Avs Fan coming peacefully. If a wing is what you seek, David jones is what I bring. Would want Demers (+) but I do not know value to value where he stands with your base. Avs could absorb some % of contract possibly, or take on a contract you'd want to dump (read Burish earlier i think).
Just looking at where this fan base stands, and the teams have been good trade partners before.

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02-09-2013, 11:47 AM
  #342
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Avs Fan coming peacefully. If a wing is what you seek, David jones is what I bring. Would want Demers (+) but I do not know value to value where he stands with your base. Avs could absorb some % of contract possibly, or take on a contract you'd want to dump (read Burish earlier i think).
Just looking at where this fan base stands, and the teams have been good trade partners before.
We appreciate you making the long trek over here, but we have absolutely no interest in trading Demers for a player like David Jones.

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02-09-2013, 11:50 AM
  #343
Barrie22
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We appreciate you making the long trek over here, but we have absolutely no interest in trading Demers for a player like David Jones.
demers + 2nd for stastny

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02-09-2013, 11:54 AM
  #344
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Seconded. Jones is non-starter as far as I'm concerned. Makes too much, for too little production. And he's only a couple of years younger than Clowe. Might as well just keep Demers and Clowe in that case. Honestly that only Colorado forwards that particularly interest me are ROR and Duchene. I would add Landeskog, but I'm positive he's 100% untouchable, where I'm only guessing that Duchene is untouchable.

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02-09-2013, 11:55 AM
  #345
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demers + 2nd for stastny
God no. Stastny is making $6.6 mil per year and is a UFA after next season. He's not earning that money in Colorado, and sure wouldn't earn it here.

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02-09-2013, 11:57 AM
  #346
Barrie22
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God no. Stastny is making $6.6 mil per year and is a UFA after next season. He's not earning that money in Colorado, and sure wouldn't earn it here.
ohhhhhhh didn't know he was that over paid, jeepers creepers.

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02-09-2013, 12:18 PM
  #347
Vaasa
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ohhhhhhh didn't know he was that over paid, jeepers creepers.
Polite hint: www.capgeek.com

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02-09-2013, 12:25 PM
  #348
Barrie22
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Polite hint: www.capgeek.com
normally i would use that site, but didn't think the avs were that stupid. especially coming from a team that usually doesn't spend all that much.

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02-09-2013, 02:22 PM
  #349
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Originally Posted by VP and GM View Post
How bout Ryan ORiley for Burns straight up. We have depth in puck moving D
and we get a younger player and maybe are a little better off cap wise.
That's like if the Canucks traded Cory Schneider for George Parros

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02-09-2013, 03:07 PM
  #350
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So the team's best, young goal scorer for an aging 2nd/3rd liner, an aging #6-7 D, both of whom are UFA, and a pick?

Yeah, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say Toronto laughs at us.
Just to give you some perspective on what the Leafs would want back: they'd probably be wanting Couture. Maybe straight-up or perhaps with a little tweak to either side.

Also, Kessel is better defensively than he's given credit for. Although he's not great.

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