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Cole's Plus/Minus: Pen(alties) vs. Devils - 2 big points lost

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Old
02-09-2013, 03:05 PM
  #101
Coach John McGuirk
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Originally Posted by KaylaJ View Post
Geno shouldn't still be taking the same stupid retaliation penalties. He has a reputation and everyone knows it. There are no more excuses for it.


Also, SHOOOOOOOOOOOOTTTTT
The sad thing is, the part of Geno that causes him to lose focus and play like an idiot for an entire game when things don't go his way, is the same part of Geno that causes him to elevate his game to the next level and completely take over a game when he's pissed.

With Geno, you have to take the bad with the good.

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02-09-2013, 03:05 PM
  #102
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Malkin played poorly but I thought Sid was actually pretty solid. He had 6 shots on goal and was our only real threat offensively. Dupuis and Kunitz were black holes of suck this game. They looked like they had earlier in the year prior to this recent 5 game win streak.

Sid did well when he had the puck today, which wasn't often because our d couldn't break it out and Kunitz/Dupuis were ****.
Here, I'll disagree. When he wasn't acting like a total *** clown, Malkin was the only Penguin threatening the Devils. Frankly, Boychuk did more to shut him down in the first 30 minutes than the Devils did.

As for Kunitz and Dupuis, yeah they had the same combined effect as Boychuk.

Why do you think that I've been obsessing about a proper second wheel for Sid and a proper third wheel for Geno since late last season?

Sid needed someone to step up and help make a play. Geno and Neal needed to work fewer short-handed cycles.

Today, leaving the refs out of it, the Devils were playing tight, boring playoff defense, where the limitations of what the Pens have outside in their top six was exposed . . . AGAIN.

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02-09-2013, 03:06 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by CaptainZappBrannigan View Post
The sad thing is, the part of Geno that causes him to lose focus and play like an idiot for an entire game when things don't go his way, is the same part of Geno that causes him to elevate his game to the next level and completely take over a game when he's pissed.

With Geno, you have to take the bad with the good.
Yep.

He'll probably elevate tomorrow and, like the first period today, Boychuk will do more to slow him down than the Devils can.

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02-09-2013, 03:07 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by CaptainZappBrannigan View Post
Geno took multiple, avoidable, stupid penalties. Orpik and Neal chirped the refs (which just absolutely doesn't fly this season, as evidenced by the amount of unsportsmanlike penalties around the league). The entire team lost composure today. Temper tantrum might not have been the right word, but they absolutely stopped playing solid hockey and let their heads get out of the game.
The refs deserved to be chirped, and most every competitive player in the league would do the same under the same circumstances. They were utter ****.

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02-09-2013, 03:07 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
[/B]

Just stop. I never complain about officiating, but playing awful hockey is a byproduct of rules that have been established over a 100 year period are now being changed depending on a ref's mood.

Today's the one day where you put the blame almost squarely on a third party who has way too much influence in deciding games.
I just have no idea what game you were watching if you think reffing was the reason we lost. We got out-skated, out-hit, out-forechecked all afternoon.

The reffing was bad, but the Pens were even worse. This was reminiscent of that 4-1 loss to the Islanders. The team had no jump or energy.

Saying we lost because of the reffing is a crappy excuse for a bad effort by the team. I hope Bylsma and the Pens aren't using it as one because they will lose tomorrow as well if they bring the same effort against the Devils.

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02-09-2013, 03:08 PM
  #106
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Boychuk getting paid money on the side to impede Malkin and Neal. e3

He's a spy... A SPY! Initiate IWS (Immediate Waiver Sequence)... Seriously though... he's got some potential but just not going to cut it on this team, at this time.

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02-09-2013, 03:08 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post

Today, leaving the refs out of it, the Devils were playing tight, boring playoff defense, where the limitations of what the Pens have outside in their top six was exposed . . . AGAIN.

Which is why sometimes these types of games need to happen before the trade deadline.

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02-09-2013, 03:09 PM
  #108
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I honestly thought fleury looked shaky. The first goal he spazzed out and fell down and as a result couldn't get over to save it. The second one, ok hard to stop that. The third one was kind of weak as well.
That first goal was more on Orpik than Fleury. Matteau was his man. Orpik let him go and chased someone else high to cover him as a Pens forward (I think Cooke) was doing the same. Orpik does his job, and that goal never happens.

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02-09-2013, 03:09 PM
  #109
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Here, I'll disagree. When he wasn't acting like a total *** clown, Malkin was the only Penguin threatening the Devils. Frankly, Boychuk did more to shut him down in the first 30 minutes than the Devils did.

As for Kunitz and Dupuis, yeah they had the same combined effect as Boychuk.

Why do you think that I've been obsessing about a proper second wheel for Sid and a proper third wheel for Geno since late last season?

Sid needed someone to step up and help make a play. Geno and Neal needed to work fewer short-handed cycles.

Today, leaving the refs out of it, the Devils were playing tight, boring playoff defense, where the limitations of what the Pens have outside in their top six was exposed . . . AGAIN.
I agree with the premise, but probably not the best day to judge, man. The Pens barely saw any even-strength ice-time.

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02-09-2013, 03:09 PM
  #110
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Letang's absence was very obvious in this game but this team was not prepared or adjusted to win this game and that was the problem last year.

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02-09-2013, 03:10 PM
  #111
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I really want to know what Neil got the unsportsmanlike for. It looked like Orpik got slewfooted/tripped from behind trying to clear just before that with no call, and if got it for complaining about that then I have no complaint about it.

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02-09-2013, 03:11 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by CaptainZappBrannigan View Post
So you're telling me the stupid slashing penalties and retaliatory penalties (especially by Geno) spurned on by frustration, and the unsportsmanlike penalty for trashing the ref weren't deserved?

The Vitale penalty, yes. That was an awful call. But the temper tantrum this team threw today because of the refs was embarrassing.
Neal's penalty? The game is out of reach to begin with, gets hit in a way that went unpunished even though we got nailed for it earlier, and he takes a slashing call.

No, taking a hissy fit isn't fun to watch, but you have to understand why they were getting pissed to start with.

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02-09-2013, 03:11 PM
  #113
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I just have no idea what game you were watching if you think reffing was the reason we lost. We got out-skated, out-hit, out-forechecked all afternoon.

The reffing was bad, but the Pens were even worse. This was reminiscent of that 4-1 loss to the Islanders. The team had no jump or energy.

Saying we lost because of the reffing is a crappy excuse for a bad effort by the team. I hope Bylsma and the Pens aren't using it as one because they will lose tomorrow as well if they bring the same effort against the Devils.
Please. To compare this to the Islanders' game? The Devils spent more time on the forecheck because penalty killers aren't trying to get the puck in the offensive zone and powerplays are. It's that simple.

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02-09-2013, 03:12 PM
  #114
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Here, I'll disagree. When he wasn't acting like a total *** clown, Malkin was the only Penguin threatening the Devils. Frankly, Boychuk did more to shut him down in the first 30 minutes than the Devils did.

As for Kunitz and Dupuis, yeah they had the same combined effect as Boychuk.

Why do you think that I've been obsessing about a proper second wheel for Sid and a proper third wheel for Geno since late last season?

Sid needed someone to step up and help make a play. Geno and Neal needed to work fewer short-handed cycles.

Today, leaving the refs out of it, the Devils were playing tight, boring playoff defense, where the limitations of what the Pens have outside in their top six was exposed . . . AGAIN.
As bad as Kunitz and Dupuis have looked at times, that line has still been dangerous. I'd love to get someone else for Sid than Dupuis, but Malkin is the one who looks like he needs a winger right now. He's getting smothered at even strength.

I think I said this in the winger thread at some point but the need is for one winger. The ideal is for two. Dupuis/Kunitz's struggles are magnified right now because Malkin's line is not scoring so whenever D/K have a bad game the Pens tend to lose. Yet if the Malkin line was rolling like it should then D/K would be able to afford to have the odd bad game because we'd still be able to put the puck in the net with Malkin's line.

Right now we really do look like a one line team, which is somewhat shocking since Malkin/Neal is not that one line.

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02-09-2013, 03:12 PM
  #115
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Hey Kirk was that your question on ROOT sports about Joe Victory?

I agree Joe V would be good on the PK. The refs gave him a BS penalty today. I thought he was going to come out of the box and score.

He plays good D and has speed that will give him some good SH chances at a goal in the future.

Joe V is why we can get rid of Duper if we need to in the future.

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02-09-2013, 03:13 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Boychuk getting paid money on the side to impeded Malkin and Neal. e3
CV, the Malkin meltdown makes it hard to remember, but first 30 minutes he and Neal were absolutely in the Devils kitchen. And then the black hole struck . . .

It is SO obvious. The Devils were on their heels in the first. If you have a Kulemin instead of a Boychuk with Geno and Neal and you have an Iginla instead of Dupuis with Sid and Kunitz, Marty would've found himself on the bench for the second period.

I don't mind the youth on defense. I know you never know which Fleury you'll get. Heck, I think we ever can deal with the stretch pass obsession. BUT, it's not going to be things that can be overcome by handicapping the two people with the power to overcome all of it. And, yes, just to be clear, I'm looking at Ray Shero.

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02-09-2013, 03:13 PM
  #117
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Malkin will never stop having these types of games once in awhile....fleury will never stop playing like a fish out of the water when there's action down low....Letang will never cut his hair. You just gotta accept the bad with the good.

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02-09-2013, 03:14 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
I agree with the premise, but probably not the best day to judge, man. The Pens barely saw any even-strength ice-time.
I'm talking about the first 20-30 minutes. If Sid's RW is Iginla and Geno's LW is Kulemin, the Pens bury the Devils before they (with a first assist from the refs) bury themselves.

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02-09-2013, 03:15 PM
  #119
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Hey Kirk was that your question on ROOT sports about Joe Victory?

I agree Joe V would be good on the PK. The refs gave him a BS penalty today. I thought he was going to come out of the box and score.

He plays good D and has speed that will give him some good SH chances at a goal in the future.

Joe V is why we can get rid of Duper if we need to in the future.
Not me. What question?

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02-09-2013, 03:15 PM
  #120
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I really want to know what Neil got the unsportsmanlike for. It looked like Orpik got slewfooted/tripped from behind trying to clear just before that with no call, and if got it for complaining about that then I have no complaint about it.
James Neil played better than Brandon Suter today, but we missed Jordan Stall's ability to score short handed .

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02-09-2013, 03:16 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
CV, the Malkin meltdown makes it hard to remember, but first 30 minutes he and Neal were absolutely in the Devils kitchen. And then the black hole struck . . .

It is SO obvious. The Devils were on their heels in the first. If you have a Kulemin instead of a Boychuk with Geno and Neal and you have an Iginla instead of Dupuis with Sid and Kunitz, Marty would've found himself on the bench for the second period.

And, yes, just to be clear, I'm looking at Ray Shero.
Well if it's so easy to get Kulemin and Iggy acquired and signed, by all means share your secrets with The Ray. But yah... good defensive teams often make all wingers not named Neal look pretty bad with this system. I still put it more on Bylsma than Shero, but both need to make adjustments.

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02-09-2013, 03:17 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Pancakes View Post
As bad as Kunitz and Dupuis have looked at times, that line has still been dangerous. I'd love to get someone else for Sid than Dupuis, but Malkin is the one who looks like he needs a winger right now. He's getting smothered at even strength.

I think I said this in the winger thread at some point but the need is for one winger. The ideal is for two. Dupuis/Kunitz's struggles are magnified right now because Malkin's line is not scoring so whenever D/K have a bad game the Pens tend to lose. Yet if the Malkin line was rolling like it should then D/K would be able to afford to have the odd bad game because we'd still be able to put the puck in the net with Malkin's line.

Right now we really do look like a one line team, which is somewhat shocking since Malkin/Neal is not that one line.
It's not really shocking if you accept that Malkin and Neal have been playing short handed at even strength this season.

As I said, their LW pretty much all season has had the equivalent impact to a game for Sid where both Kunitz and Dupuis play like ***.

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02-09-2013, 03:17 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
Neal's penalty? The game is out of reach to begin with, gets hit in a way that went unpunished even though we got nailed for it earlier, and he takes a slashing call.

No, taking a hissy fit isn't fun to watch, but you have to understand why they were getting pissed to start with.
I realize the refs were atrocious today. Nobody here is claiming the game was officiated well. Those of us that are angry are so because the team decided to stop playing hockey after it was apparent the refs were going to be calling anything and everything (and some things that didn't even actually happen). There were bad calls against the Devils too, and it didn't drive them to stop playing a solid brand of hockey.

Saying the refs were awful, and they ruined the game for the Penguins is justified. Just like saying a good portion of the penalties against the Penguins were easily avoidable calls. Martin's penalty for hooking or holding (don't remember which it was) was avoidable. Sure, Zajac skated into Martin's lane, but they're both entitled to that space. Keep your damn stick from going around the guy's midsection and skate your ass off. This isn't the 90's, hooking on a play like that is going to be called every single time.

I don't know. I realize the refs were simply awful today, but our team did absolutely nothing to reel it in discipline-wise and continue to play a solid game.

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02-09-2013, 03:19 PM
  #124
roready
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Not me. What question?
On the ask Jay question on Root sports. The question was from Kirk in Pittsburgh.

Would Joe Vitale be good on the Penalty Kill and why is he not getting a chance on the PK?

Jay said Joe V just needs to wait his turn.


I have a feeling Joe V might replace Duper in the (near) future. (i.e. Duper may be traded away soon).

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02-09-2013, 03:19 PM
  #125
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Well if it's so easy to get Kulemin and Iggy acquired and signed, by all means share your secrets with The Ray. But yah... good defensive teams often make all wingers not named Neal look pretty bad with this system. I still put it more on Bylsma than Shero, but both need to make adjustments.
Oh, it's not that easy, especially when people would want Ray's precious defensive prospects. Must . . . keep . . . all . . . costs.

Seriously, I'll put it this way: If Rejan can resolve the L1 RW and L2 LW situations, then Sid and Geno will have the help they need to overcome playoff opposition, the Flower adventures, young defensemen, and, yes, even their own coach's gameplan.

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