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Ryan Kesler In Practice With The Canucks Today

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Old
02-09-2013, 02:31 PM
  #126
VinnyC
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Originally Posted by hackey View Post
Once Booth gets back put him with the Sedins, he's useless anywhere else and if he can't make it with the Sedins... then well?
He's a shooter and Henrik should dish him some gimmes

Booth isn't meshing with Kesler and isn't defensively aware enough for the 3rd line

So switch him to play RW
Switch Kass or Burrows to play LW with Kesler

Sedin-Sedin-Booth
Kassian-Kesler-Burrows
Higgins-Schroeder-Raymond
Malhotra-Lappiere-Hansen

The weakest link being Schroeder just because of his size
Hansen/Raymond is a luxury on the 4th line
Booth should play with Kesler and preferably Schroeder, but Kassian would work as well. He uses his speed, size and go-to moves to make damage in transition and he's pretty good around the crease too. I don't think he'd do well with the Sedins - while he's actually a really good backchecker, he is poor in his own zone and would make that line helpless if they're pinned against say, a Toews or Geztlaf line. His IQ is definitively a few shades below Kassian and Burrows so he should be geared towards playing a crash, bang, deke/shoot game.

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02-09-2013, 02:37 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by vanuck View Post
Depends what AV wants to do, I think. If he wants to match power vs. power then we might see:

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Booth - Kesler - Kassian
Higgins - Schroeder - Hansen
Raymond - Lapierre - Weise


If he plans on using the specialized zone deployment then perhaps:

Sedin - Sedin - Kassian
Burrows - Kesler - Hansen (primary shut-down line)
Booth - Schroeder - Raymond
Higgins - Lapierre - Weise (secondary checking line)
I really like the idea of this.

A Burrows-Kesler-Hansen line would be a force at both ends of the ice. A nightmare shutdown line for other teams, because you've got three extremely strong defensive players with speed and an abrasive edge to their games...who are also all more or less top-6 calibre scorers. So instead of having all of those 'shutdown minutes' against other team's top lines being a bit of an offensive dead zone for us...we're getting goals while we shut them down.

And then you can get Schroeder out there still in a more protected and more offensive role, with the chemistry he's shown alongside Raymond...with the big power winger in Booth to add a physical net drive presence to the line. That's a 2nd 'scoring line' on some teams.

The only point i'd make, is that sort of deployment is missing Manny, who like it or not...is important to AV's zone-deployment scheme, if only for his faceoff ability. And while Kesler and Lappy give us two strong defensive deployment FO guys...they're both RH shots. As is Schroeder, if you'd even consider him for defensive draws.

Not matter how you roll out the lines though, it's going to be a struggle to get everyone in there, and justify Manny's spot.

But i think a more likely scenario would be:

Sedin-Sedin-Kassian
Burrows-Kesler-Hansen
Booth-Schroeder-Raymond
Higgins-Malhotra-Lapierre.

Still lots of physicality and toughness, but you also get Manny in there as the LH faceoff ace. And honestly, i Weise is a nice 4th line winger, but i don't think you lose that much subbing him out for Manny and potentially bumping Lappy to the wing.

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02-09-2013, 03:46 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by biturbo19 View Post
I really like the idea of this.

A Burrows-Kesler-Hansen line would be a force at both ends of the ice. A nightmare shutdown line for other teams, because you've got three extremely strong defensive players with speed and an abrasive edge to their games...who are also all more or less top-6 calibre scorers. So instead of having all of those 'shutdown minutes' against other team's top lines being a bit of an offensive dead zone for us...we're getting goals while we shut them down.

And then you can get Schroeder out there still in a more protected and more offensive role, with the chemistry he's shown alongside Raymond...with the big power winger in Booth to add a physical net drive presence to the line. That's a 2nd 'scoring line' on some teams.

The only point i'd make, is that sort of deployment is missing Manny, who like it or not...is important to AV's zone-deployment scheme, if only for his faceoff ability. And while Kesler and Lappy give us two strong defensive deployment FO guys...they're both RH shots. As is Schroeder, if you'd even consider him for defensive draws.

Not matter how you roll out the lines though, it's going to be a struggle to get everyone in there, and justify Manny's spot.

But i think a more likely scenario would be:

Sedin-Sedin-Kassian
Burrows-Kesler-Hansen
Booth-Schroeder-Raymond
Higgins-Malhotra-Lapierre.

Still lots of physicality and toughness, but you also get Manny in there as the LH faceoff ace. And honestly, i Weise is a nice 4th line winger, but i don't think you lose that much subbing him out for Manny and potentially bumping Lappy to the wing.
Great insight on both posts, but to me the key is that Schroeder has seemed to have played himself onto the team, really. However I am not sure he could be a regular come playoff time, which is really the bigger question. Nice to have these problems if you're AV.

Kesler can't come back soon enough IMO. We need him going full boar come end of April.

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02-09-2013, 03:55 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Biggest Canuck Fan View Post
Great insight on both posts, but to me the key is that Schroeder has seemed to have played himself onto the team, really. However I am not sure he could be a regular come playoff time, which is really the bigger question. Nice to have these problems if you're AV.

Kesler can't come back soon enough IMO. We need him going full boar come end of April.
If Schroeder can run the 2nd PP unit effectively and keep his defensive play up, then he'll be vital to the Canucks' post-season success. The Canucks NEED to have a reliable 2nd unit powerplay. Loading up the first PP unit worked well when we had Ehrhoff, but we need a back up in case the top unit gets shut down like in that SCF series.

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Originally Posted by Wizeman View Post
Unfortunately, some of them do.

They get all bent out of shape if you put someone like Schroeder as the 'third line' center as he aint no shut down center. Which of course is the traditional 3rd line role.

More honestly, its just an EXCUSE by those who dont want Schroeder on the team and want to upgrade the position.

I disagree. He is a playmaking center and is also defensively capable. Whatever he lacks in height he more than makes up for in speed, strengthn and grit.

Even after only 8 games I can tell hes going to be a great pro if he just continues to do the little things it takes to improve his game .

Vanuck's line-up is probably the best line-up we can generate with what we have if we are hell-bent on keeping the Sedins together, but if we can deal for a traditional third liner, then we should. I like Schroeder as much as the next guy, but replacing Schroeder with someone like Laich would be sweet.

I'd like to see

Daniel - Kesler - Kassian
Booth - Henrik - Burrows
Raymond - Schroeder - Hansen
Higgins - Lapierre - Weise/Malhotra

I think it's pretty obvious that the only player who will get Booth anywhere near 30 goals is Henrik. Henrik's an elite playmaker.. he doesn't need to play with Daniel to have his linemates score 60+ goals. Booth and Burrows should be able to score at least 25-30 with Henrik. Henrik needs to shoot more thought.. 113 shots in 82 games last season .


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Old
02-09-2013, 04:04 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by AmazingNuck View Post
If Schroeder can run the 2nd PP unit effectively and keep his defensive play up, then he'll be vital to the Canucks' post-season success. The Canucks NEED to have a reliable 2nd unit powerplay. Loading up the first PP unit worked well when we had Ehrhoff, but we need a back up in case the top unit gets shut down like in that SCF series.
I just watched th entire series last night actually... wife was out of town last night and had nothing better to do. Man was Kesler great until that hit in game 2 and boy did they miss Hamhuis and Rome.

Re: the PP, Vancouver had a ton of chances but Thomas was insane. Also the Canucks were short handed for such long stretches of the first 5 games. Terrile officiating. In game 1 alone the Cnaucks were SH for the first 8 minutes of the 2nd period. It was atrocious.

I think the PP fizzle was greatly exagerated as the token PP's were meaningless and the Canucks knew it.

What the Canucks PP comes down to is their confidence. When they move the puck with zip, they are hard to defend. If anything for the Canucks when Kesler gets back I want to se the same urgency, emotion and conviction they played with vs the Oilers and Wild.

Kesler is a huge part of this attitude.

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02-09-2013, 04:06 PM
  #131
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Sedin-Sedin-Kassian
Booth-Kesler-Burrows
Raymond-Schroeder-Hansen
Higgins-Malhotra-Lapierre

Keeps our top 3 RWers on their natural side, and keeps Raymond and Booth both on their strong side.

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02-09-2013, 04:13 PM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Sedin-Sedin-Kassian
Booth-Kesler-Burrows
Raymond-Schroeder-Hansen
Higgins-Malhotra-Lapierre

Keeps our top 3 RWers on their natural side, and keeps Raymond and Booth both on their strong side.
This would be my NHL13 lineup as well... and if AV had a brain he would do this lineup.

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02-09-2013, 04:19 PM
  #133
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Still think we should move booth and get a more natural playmaker to play with kesler.

The emergence of Kassian has added a much needed toughness ingredient in our top 6 and given us an extra option for the twins.

sedin sedin kassian/burrows
? kesler kassian/burrows.

A higher talent top 6 forward makes more sense than a 1 trick pony in booth.

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02-09-2013, 04:23 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Biggest Canuck Fan View Post
I just watched th entire series last night actually... wife was out of town last night and had nothing better to do. Man was Kesler great until that hit in game 2 and boy did they miss Hamhuis and Rome.

Re: the PP, Vancouver had a ton of chances but Thomas was insane. Also the Canucks were short handed for such long stretches of the first 5 games. Terrile officiating. In game 1 alone the Cnaucks were SH for the first 8 minutes of the 2nd period. It was atrocious.

I think the PP fizzle was greatly exagerated as the token PP's were meaningless and the Canucks knew it.

What the Canucks PP comes down to is their confidence. When they move the puck with zip, they are hard to defend. If anything for the Canucks when Kesler gets back I want to se the same urgency, emotion and conviction they played with vs the Oilers and Wild.

Kesler is a huge part of this attitude.
I agree. However, I can't help but feel that maybe if they had connected on some of those token PPs, they'd have some confidence for the next game. If you're already down 5-0 and you're still being shut down on the powerplay, that doesn't do well for confidence. I think they did try to score, but they couldn't, which made them lose some confidence.

Losing Hamhuis was a big blow though. Edler + Ehrhoff were quite injured. The past is the past though.

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02-09-2013, 04:33 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Sedin-Sedin-Kassian
Booth-Kesler-Burrows
Raymond-Schroeder-Hansen
Higgins-Malhotra-Lapierre

Keeps our top 3 RWers on their natural side, and keeps Raymond and Booth both on their strong side.
Why worry about keeping Burrows on the RW though? That doesn't really make sense. He was essentially a LW until the Sedin thing. Sure he plays mostly RW now, but i really don't think it makes much difference which wing he plays on.

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02-09-2013, 04:35 PM
  #136
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Schroeder will play somewhere in the lineup.......no way he will be out of the lineup as he is fast and speed can beat team and involve in the second PP unit as the point man

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02-09-2013, 04:35 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by biturbo19 View Post
Why worry about keeping Burrows on the RW though? That doesn't really make sense. He was essentially a LW until the Sedin thing. Sure he plays mostly RW now, but i really don't think it makes much difference which wing he plays on.
I've always thought of Burrows as a natural LW , but he's great on either wing. Maybe he means that he doesn't force any of Daniel, Raymond or Booth to play on the RW? I know Booth has troubles there, and Raymond isn't exactly great on the RW either.

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02-09-2013, 04:42 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by canuck4life16 View Post
Schroeder will play somewhere in the lineup.......no way he will be out of the lineup as he is fast and speed can beat team and involve in the second PP unit as the point man
or the 2nd unit could actually have a center on it.

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02-09-2013, 04:49 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
my thinking is if a burrows - kesler - hansen line scores only three or four ES goals between them in a series, but holds the other team's top line to only one or two ES goals over the series, it's actually like that line is averaging more than a goal a game. the net gain is enormous, and with their speed, counter-attack ability, chemistry, and ability to grind down opponents as well as get them off their game, i don't see how we could not put these guys together-- at least to test it out.

other than size, this line would be superior to pahlsson - niedermayer - moen in every conceivable way, and that line was probably the ducks' most important forward line when they won the cup. pandolfo - madden - langenbrunner from the '03 playoffs is another comparison i'd like to make: gritty speedy guys, especially ones with a history of clutch scoring, sometimes end up not only shutting down the opposition's big guns offensively, but also ventilating them defensively (see: john madden making thornton his female dog).


but longterm, obviously, this only is possible if our two young guys continue working out. can kassian keep up his good play on the first line with two former scoring champs? a lot to ask of a kid in his first real full NHL season. can schroeder, who had never played in the league before, hold down a secondary scoring line with boots and mayray? i mean, can this completely inexperienced rookie be the straw that stirs the drink on a scoring line in the playoffs? again, a lot to ask. but at least as for now, it looks like a possibility.
I think you guys are selling that line way too short offensively. The minute you put two of them together, they start clicking offensively. Trouble is, all three, till this point were required to be on different lines to anchor each one down.

When Hansen was first breaking into the league and Burrows/Kesler had not established themselves as any more than 30-40 point players, and that line was united, it looked dynamite offensively. Hansen looked like a 20 goal, 40 point guy right off the hop on that line. I honestly think that if you played that line together in the playoffs back then, it would be closer to what you're describing. The trouble is, we were never able to get away with it because we didn't have enough depth elsewhere, Burrows clicked with the Sedins, Hansen was likely not ready to be a long term second liner (he had barely established himself as a 3rd liner at that point), and Kesler was required to be the main component of our 2nd line.

With the improvements these guys have made to their game by this point, I have no doubt that that line would be our best line night-in-night out and be counted on at both ends of the ice, and probably do a tremendous job, even in the playoffs. At the very least, there is no reason that a Higgins - Kesler - Booth line or any other combination we could come up with not including the Sedins would generate more offense, IMO.

If Kassian clicks with the Sedins down the stretch and some combination of Higgins, Raymond, Booth, Lapierre, or trade return are able to form a solid 3rd line (offensive or defensive, doesn't really matter), you absolutely have to reunite that line, IMO.

Hansen would put up legitimate second line numbers on a line like that, and Burrows/Kesler's numbers would not drop, IMO.


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02-09-2013, 04:53 PM
  #140
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I think you guys are selling that line way too short offensively. The minute you put two of them together, they start clicking offensively. Trouble is, all three, till this point were required to be on different lines to anchor each one down.

When Hansen was first breaking into the league and Burrows/Kesler had not established themselves as any more than 30-40 point players, and that line was united, it looked dynamite offensively. Hansen looked like a 20 goal, 40 point guy right off the hop on that line. I honestly think that if you played that line together in the playoffs back then, it would be closer to what you're describing. The trouble is, we were never able to get away with it because we didn't have enough depth elsewhere, Burrows clicked with the Sedins, and Kesler was required to be the main component of our 2nd line.

With the improvements these guys have made to their game by this point, I have no doubt that that line would be our best line night-in-night out and be counted on at both ends of the ice.
you could be right... i can foresee so many breakaways and goals of the rush. let's just say i'd love to see them together to see if you're right about this. i mean, pandolfo - madden - langenbrunner in the '03 playoffs, that line was so boss. it didn't even matter that elias and gomez didn't do anything for almost that entire cup run.

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02-09-2013, 04:56 PM
  #141
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Schroeder will play somewhere in the lineup.......no way he will be out of the lineup as he is fast and speed can beat team and involve in the second PP unit as the point man
I am a huge Jordan supporter, but I think he goes down, as he does not have to clear waivers.

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02-09-2013, 04:56 PM
  #142
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I just don't get all the Booth hate. All I heard before last season was how we needed a big bodied forward who could play in our top 6 and drive the net. That's pretty much what we have in Booth, plus he's a work horse who can skate really fast.

Yes I'd prefer he was 6' 3" 220lb with a bit more speed, harder hits, Schroeder passing, elite vision, slightly better shot, with more 1on1 moves, who can play center, defensively sound, better fighter....

stop nitpicking..

EDIT: To bring this back to Kesler. He's a GREAT defensive player who's build his game around hard work. He's shown he can produce offensively but I believe he should never be put in a situation to 'produce' offense unless he's the secondary threat on the line. Put him with guys who work hard and hustle, shut down a line and the offense will come.

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02-09-2013, 04:57 PM
  #143
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I just don't get all the Booth hate. All I heard before last season was how we needed a big bodied forward who could play in our top 6 and drive the net. That's pretty much what we have in Booth, plus he's a work horse who can skate really fast.

Yes I'd prefer he was 6' 3" 220lb with a bit more speed, harder hits, Schroeder passing, elite vision, slightly better shot, with more 1on1 moves, who can play center, defensively sound, better fighter....

stop nitpicking..
People need someone to complain about. No one looks at the big picture.

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02-09-2013, 05:33 PM
  #144
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I just don't get all the Booth hate. All I heard before last season was how we needed a big bodied forward who could play in our top 6 and drive the net. That's pretty much what we have in Booth, plus he's a work horse who can skate really fast.

Yes I'd prefer he was 6' 3" 220lb with a bit more speed, harder hits, Schroeder passing, elite vision, slightly better shot, with more 1on1 moves, who can play center, defensively sound, better fighter....

stop nitpicking..

EDIT: To bring this back to Kesler. He's a GREAT defensive player who's build his game around hard work. He's shown he can produce offensively but I believe he should never be put in a situation to 'produce' offense unless he's the secondary threat on the line. Put him with guys who work hard and hustle, shut down a line and the offense will come.
Nobody has suggested this.

I'm still really excited about what Booth can potentially do, but the weaknesses in his game were very glaring and concerning for a team who added the piece hoping to make a playoff run. People only complain because for long stretches he's been LESS effective in alot of ways to our existing players, not because he's not Gretzky.

Most people would just like his hockey sense/awareness to be a little more manageable and adequate, which it wasn't down the stretch (in the playoffs, he was a huge anchor holding back his linemates, I felt-- and I'm aware that everyone played poorly). I think it's a fair criticism. It's not asking for too much, and I think/am hoping it's just an adjustment that he'll be better at this year.

You don't have to agree or understand, but I personally hate when people dismiss comments like that with "people need to complain about something!"

It's the same with the way Raymond (or even Malhotra) was treated last year. Yes, I felt it was unfair for people to ignore his injury troubles, and he had every valid excuse in the book, but let's not pretend like his play wasn't poor last year.

Yes, people were pining for a player with the qualities that you described, but let's not act like a player who brings those qualities who is also very poor in all other areas is something we should be looking forward to. I think Booth was very solid for half his time here and completely awful in the other half (the wrong half, too). I'm not complaining or being dismissive of this year, but I think that's the reality of last year.


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02-09-2013, 05:35 PM
  #145
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Nobody has suggested this.

I'm still really excited about what Booth can potentially do, but the weaknesses in his game were very glaring and concerning for a team who added the piece hoping to make a playoff run. People only complain because for long stretches he's been LESS effective in alot of ways to our existing players, not because he's not Gretzky.

Most people would just like his hockey sense/awareness to be a little more manageable and adequate, which it wasn't for a very long time. I think it's a fair criticism. It's not asking for too much, and I think/am hoping it's just an adjustment that he'll be better at this year.
Booth never recovered from t he knee injury. In fact neither did the Canucks. They were rolling at that time and the Canucks had their 2nd line with Higgins, Booth Kesler.

Having as relatively healthy as they can motivated team is what I am looking forward to. Kesler taking his time is proof of that.

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02-09-2013, 05:58 PM
  #146
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I am a huge Jordan supporter, but I think he goes down, as he does not have to clear waivers.
You write this every time. Try actually supporting him.

Dont you read what his coach and GM think? They have no intention of sending him anywhere.
This is like the 15th time I will tell you he can play all 48 games and playoffs and STILL avoid waivers next year too. The guy is 22 years old and a first round draft pick. Hes been to college. Hes rode the busses in the AHL for years.

hes paid his dues.

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02-09-2013, 06:16 PM
  #147
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You write this every time. Try actually supporting him.

Dont you read what his coach and GM think? They have no intention of sending him anywhere.
This is like the 15th time I will tell you he can play all 48 games and playoffs and STILL avoid waivers next year too. The guy is 22 years old and a first round draft pick. Hes been to college. Hes rode the busses in the AHL for years.

hes paid his dues.
That is the first time I have written that, and the first time I have written I think he will be sent down... So yeah

Moreover I think you need to understand the why. This is nothing about Jordan himself, I think he deserves to play on this team. However when Kesler and booth come back, two guys will need to be sent to the wolves. Jordan is waiver exempt so he goes straight through. It is better to keep your depth then lose it.

I know you are thinking but its just blank and blank, but if we get a few injuries especially in the playoffs, wouldn't you rather have a lot of NHL talent instead of none?

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02-09-2013, 06:18 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
our third line center in 1994 was 5'8, 165 lbs.



i loved that little guy
Cliff wishes he was 5'8.

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02-09-2013, 06:26 PM
  #149
vanuck
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Originally Posted by biturbo19 View Post
I really like the idea of this.

A Burrows-Kesler-Hansen line would be a force at both ends of the ice. A nightmare shutdown line for other teams, because you've got three extremely strong defensive players with speed and an abrasive edge to their games...who are also all more or less top-6 calibre scorers. So instead of having all of those 'shutdown minutes' against other team's top lines being a bit of an offensive dead zone for us...we're getting goals while we shut them down.

And then you can get Schroeder out there still in a more protected and more offensive role, with the chemistry he's shown alongside Raymond...with the big power winger in Booth to add a physical net drive presence to the line. That's a 2nd 'scoring line' on some teams.

The only point i'd make, is that sort of deployment is missing Manny, who like it or not...is important to AV's zone-deployment scheme, if only for his faceoff ability. And while Kesler and Lappy give us two strong defensive deployment FO guys...they're both RH shots. As is Schroeder, if you'd even consider him for defensive draws.

Not matter how you roll out the lines though, it's going to be a struggle to get everyone in there, and justify Manny's spot.

But i think a more likely scenario would be:

Sedin-Sedin-Kassian
Burrows-Kesler-Hansen
Booth-Schroeder-Raymond
Higgins-Malhotra-Lapierre.

Still lots of physicality and toughness, but you also get Manny in there as the LH faceoff ace. And honestly, i Weise is a nice 4th line winger, but i don't think you lose that much subbing him out for Manny and potentially bumping Lappy to the wing.
Yeah, it's hard to see AV not having Malhotra in there if we're being totally realistic. Personally though, outside of faceoffs I think Weise brings more to the table, though if having Manny in there means we exit the zone easily when matched up against 2nd lines then the drop-off may be so negligible that it simply comes down to preference.

Agree about the shutdown line. It's what makes Kesler so special - he can produce while checking the other team's top line into oblivion. Having that line being able to come out ahead while facing the toughest competition opponents can throw at us is huge. At worst he can saw off their production and still come out even - and that's already a plus.

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Old
02-09-2013, 06:30 PM
  #150
Potatoe1
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Sedin-Sedin-Kassian
Booth-Kesler-Burrows
Raymond-Schroeder-Hansen
Higgins-Malhotra-Lapierre

Keeps our top 3 RWers on their natural side, and keeps Raymond and Booth both on their strong side.
I think this is more or less what we will see.

I suspect Burrows and Kassian will rotate a little as well as Raymond and Booth.

I think Weise and Manny will take turns sitting out.

As far as Schroder goes I think he will have to be really good to hold down his spot for the full season.

My guess is AV and GMMG still believe the 3rd line should be a more traditional checking unit and would like to upgrade that spot either through the Luongo trade or at the deadline.

That scenario pushes Schroder back to the AHL as injury depth, which is perfectly fine in the short term. Most young players are well served by moving up and down the first few years of their NHL career.

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