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Ralph Krueger

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Old
12-03-2012, 02:54 PM
  #51
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I'm in the Eager-is-useless camp. Renney had a short leash on both Hordi and Eager but Hordichuk actually did what he was supposed to do with what he was given. Eager on the other hand tried to become a scorer or something?? I want to see what he does in a less restrictive environment under Krueger but I just don't think he adds anything to our team at this point.

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12-03-2012, 03:15 PM
  #52
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I see the two bolded statements as conflicting. The first is what you want the player to be but which on the basis of his career has no validation. Its been years since any club could say they got they wanted out of Eager. Second its the notion of externalizing fault, blame, whatever, and applying it to the coach that I find frustrating and highly misleading. Eager Should be the first person to point the finger at himself as he didn't come here prepared to be anything close to what the team needed. Any notion that people could tell Eager was somehow different under Krueger for a few games last year is nothing but conjecture and based on nothing. Certainly silly to invoke that a player was uniquely different in say 25mins played under another coach. As if that limited sample even reveals anything other than chance. (again this not to you but response to the thread)

I keep saying this but if Renney is to blame, and REnney keeps players on shortleash and prevents physical players from playing thier game then why was Hordichuk so much more effective with limited minutes.

Hordi's hits, fights, intensity, aggression, backing up team mates represented far more worth to the team than Ben Eager skating through games pretending he's an NHL talent. Full stop he's hear to look ugly, not pretty, and he never once got that.
As for the two bolded statements.
I think Eager could be utilized as a 3/4 tweener energy type player.
Renney didn't use him properly or give him enough leash, or maybe he thought he was better than that.
I believe that Kreuger would get better results out of Eager. We know he doesn't have problems cutting out the bulsh because of his actions at the Olympics when he sent his two best players home because they wouldn't buy in.

Hordichuk definitely bought into his role and knew why the Oilers picked him up. No complaints from me about his play, he knew what he was brought in to do so he went and did it. IMO this is why Hordi was more effective under Renney.
If Kreuger can get Eager to buy in then we've got a guy on our team who is younger, a better skater, and has a better chance of chipping in goals than Hordi will at this stage in his career. If Eager won't buy in maybe Tambo will start shopping him at Kreugers insistence?

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12-05-2012, 10:52 PM
  #53
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I think that concussion effected him more than people know. Sure he can make some bone headed plays but the player I saw in spurts, keyword *spurts*, back in San Jose and Chicago was an effective energy guy who could skate and hit hard when necessary. Bit of a pest too. Definitely a questionable character but I think with the right coach and given more of a solid role, even if to chip in some offense, he can still be a valuable player for just a million bucks.

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12-06-2012, 08:14 AM
  #54
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Don't think Kreuger can do worse than Renny. (of course I will always believe it was all in the plan to get top drafts).

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12-06-2012, 08:21 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Philly85 View Post
I think that concussion effected him more than people know. Sure he can make some bone headed plays but the player I saw in spurts, keyword *spurts*, back in San Jose and Chicago was an effective energy guy who could skate and hit hard when necessary. Bit of a pest too. Definitely a questionable character but I think with the right coach and given more of a solid role, even if to chip in some offense, he can still be a valuable player for just a million bucks.
I agree with this as well... when he went down with the second concussion (or the reverb from the first), he came back a different player.

There is a tonne of precedence for concussed players coming back a shell of their former self and taking a good 12 to 18 months to get back to normal. Part physical and part mental.

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12-06-2012, 09:27 AM
  #56
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I agree with this as well... when he went down with the second concussion (or the reverb from the first), he came back a different player.

There is a tonne of precedence for concussed players coming back a shell of their former self and taking a good 12 to 18 months to get back to normal. Part physical and part mental.
In the case of Stoll we saw this directly and I was of the opinion we should retain his services and give him time. Due to the fact that he had previously been a very useful player.

The trouble with Eager is we have all these theories

1)Coaching
2)Shortleash
3)Concussion

All of which are excuses for a player that hasn't been very useful anywhere he's been since the Blackhawks SC. The one time in pro hockey he maybe managed to motivate himself to play a role the team needed him to play.

I have a hard time buying that Eager was timid due to the concussion and not himself. Assaulting people in bars and drinking his face off is probably not recommended for post concussion effects. The truth is he just wasn't prepared mentally last season and didn't care one iota to be here.

What we have here is a basic screwup that can't get his life, or hockey life intact and we should cut bait at the earliest opportunity.

Eager is a cluster****. I find it interesting the same org that felt Souray was a "Cancer" went out and got a guy like Eager. We do like projects here.

I wonder if theres one Oiler player from last year that if candid would have any charitable things to say about Ben Eager or his contribution. Really it doesn't take much more than viewing TC or practice to see Eager off in his own little dreamland. I can't even recognize who on the team he would be close to. Hordi doesn't even seem to give him the time of day. Do people not pay attention to stuff like that? Hockey is a team sport and in his mind Eager is still a player somewhere else. The guy in the office that had a good job 5yrs ago and never wanted it to end but is now a clear headcase that needs a new job every year as his demeanor catches up to him.

Demons? Yeah, you bet.

If 5-10 years from now there was a tell all book about present day Ben Eager it wouldn't surprise me at all. Another in a long line of skating hockey tragedies.

This is a guy playing his way out of pro hockey. 2yrs from now you'll wonder where he is.

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Old
12-06-2012, 09:36 AM
  #57
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I keep opening this thread in the hope that there will be a post about Ralph Krueger.

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Old
12-28-2012, 04:21 PM
  #58
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High praise from Scotty Bowman:

scott bowman ‏@coachwsb
@vancannon77 the Oilers are right on the edge of being one of the elite special teams of the NHL i have the utmost respect for coach Krueger

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Old
12-28-2012, 04:42 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by worraps View Post
High praise from Scotty Bowman:

scott bowman ‏@coachwsb
@vancannon77 the Oilers are right on the edge of being one of the elite special teams of the NHL i have the utmost respect for coach Krueger
Just what the poor guy needs, more hype and expectations.

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Old
12-28-2012, 05:05 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by worraps View Post
High praise from Scotty Bowman:

scott bowman ‏@coachwsb
@vancannon77 the Oilers are right on the edge of being one of the elite special teams of the NHL i have the utmost respect for coach Krueger
Awhile ago was Bowman not the one who said what the Oilers need to do is hire Krueger and draft Yakupov? Or something to that extent?

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Old
02-09-2013, 04:12 PM
  #61
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Genuinely interested as to why this you think this. I found the games that Krueger coached very encouraging.
Because removing one guy (Renney) from an inept coaching staff and leaving the rest of them isn't going to change anything.

We needed to hire a new coaching staff in the off-season, not keep the majority of the one that landed us 30th and 29th.

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02-09-2013, 04:15 PM
  #62
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Because removing one guy (Renney) from an inept coaching staff and leaving the rest of them isn't going to change anything.

We needed to hire a new coaching staff in the off-season, not keep the majority of the one that landed us 30th and 29th.
I'm quickly starting to lose faith in Krueger. I think he's the perfect Associate Coach, but he seems to care more about developing this team and re-building the confidence of certain players. I wanr Mactavish back.

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02-09-2013, 04:18 PM
  #63
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I'm quickly starting to lose faith in Krueger. I think he's the perfect Associate Coach, but he seems to care more about developing this team and re-building the confidence of certain players. I wanr Mactavish back.
If MacT comes back as the oilers coach (which I predicted he would if Kruger fails in the next two years) I am totally done with the oilers.

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02-09-2013, 04:34 PM
  #64
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I'm quickly starting to lose faith in Krueger. I think he's the perfect Associate Coach, but he seems to care more about developing this team and re-building the confidence of certain players. I wanr Mactavish back.
Sounds a lot like Tom Renney, doesn't it? A firing that made no sense now that Krueger became coach. He's not adding anything new to the table, the team is more sloppier now that i've ever seen it before. The sole thing that i liked about MacT's coaching was that he made players pay by bag skating them. We need a coach that isn't afraid to do that along with bringing something new to the table.

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If MacT comes back as the oilers coach (which I predicted he would if Kruger fails in the next two years) I am totally done with the oilers.
I just can't see that happening. It's a suicide move for management. I could be wrong, though. Kevin Lowe does seem to get away with a heck of a lot.

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02-09-2013, 04:35 PM
  #65
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Krueger is not getting the job done. His positive mantra BS is clearly not working.

We need a coach with some bite. What is the point of having drive with zero finish...

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Old
02-09-2013, 04:39 PM
  #66
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If MacT were brought back it would be last-stand for KLowe, but imo it would work. I would be excited. Give MacT a mediocre team and he will find a way to win.

Piling on Krueger right now is absolutely silly, though. We'll be fine. Injuries suck, though.

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02-09-2013, 04:40 PM
  #67
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If MacT were brought back it would be last-stand for KLowe, but imo it would work. I would be excited. Give MacT a mediocre team and he will find a way to win.
Dwayne Roloson is retired.

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Old
02-09-2013, 05:05 PM
  #68
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Seriously, Kreuger has our forwards way more defensively responsible this year then they ever were under Renney. Hemsky and others never backchecked like that back then. Now we just need our goalscorers to actually start scoring. Do people really think that guys like Eberle, RNH and Hall just are never going to score again or something?

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02-09-2013, 05:11 PM
  #69
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Good grief, people are still blaming the coach? If you haven't noticed, the Oilers have finished DEAD LAST in the NHL two of the last three years, and second to last two years ago. And they've changed their coaching staff multiple times in those years!

You know what the problem is? A poorly constructed roster. Like it has been for the past several years. Don't be blinded by the quality young players--just because they're good young players, doesn't mean that they're good enough TODAY to make for a winning hockey team. A winning hockey team would likely have two more veteran, proven top six forwards, including one above average first liner, and especially, two proven NHL defencemen, including one above average first pairing defenceman.

When you consistently rely on inexperience to carry your team, unless that player is Sidney Crosby or Wayne Gretzky, it isn't going to work. Steve Tambellini has no idea how to read his own roster, fill it with appropriate veterans (hello Cam Barker, Ben Eager, Darcy Hordichuk, and especially Nikolai Khabibulin).

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02-09-2013, 05:16 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Chooch View Post
Sounds a lot like Tom Renney, doesn't it? A firing that made no sense now that Krueger became coach. He's not adding anything new to the table, the team is more sloppier now that i've ever seen it before. The sole thing that i liked about MacT's coaching was that he made players pay by bag skating them. We need a coach that isn't afraid to do that along with bringing something new to the table.



I just can't see that happening. It's a suicide move for management. I could be wrong, though. Kevin Lowe does seem to get away with a heck of a lot.
There's no such thing as managerial sucide in this organization.

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02-09-2013, 05:19 PM
  #71
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Good grief, people are still blaming the coach? If you haven't noticed, the Oilers have finished DEAD LAST in the NHL two of the last three years, and second to last two years ago. And they've changed their coaching staff multiple times in those years!

You know what the problem is? A poorly constructed roster. Like it has been for the past several years. Don't be blinded by the quality young players--just because they're good young players, doesn't mean that they're good enough TODAY to make for a winning hockey team. A winning hockey team would likely have two more veteran, proven top six forwards, including one above average first liner, and especially, two proven NHL defencemen, including one above average first pairing defenceman.

When you consistently rely on inexperience to carry your team, unless that player is Sidney Crosby or Wayne Gretzky, it isn't going to work. Steve Tambellini has no idea how to read his own roster, fill it with appropriate veterans (hello Cam Barker, Ben Eager, Darcy Hordichuk, and especially Nikolai Khabibulin).
Agree with most of what youre saying, Lowe/Tambo did assemble this coaching staff too.

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02-09-2013, 05:28 PM
  #72
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Seriously, Kreuger has our forwards way more defensively responsible this year then they ever were under Renney. Hemsky and others never backchecked like that back then. Now we just need our goalscorers to actually start scoring. Do people really think that guys like Eberle, RNH and Hall just are never going to score again or something?
A little too defensively responsible i think. We can't even get out of our own zone 95% of the time.

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02-09-2013, 05:36 PM
  #73
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A little too defensively responsible i think. We can't even get out of our own zone 95% of the time.
Watching this team trying to enter the offensive zone is even more laughable.

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02-09-2013, 05:40 PM
  #74
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A little too defensively responsible i think. We can't even get out of our own zone 95% of the time.
Yeah, we need a forward to start flying the zone on the side they want to break out on to pull that defender off the blueline, they are getting the puck hung up way too often there.

I also agree with the guy who said our entrance into the o-zone is attrocious right now. We are faster then most teams, we should be using a dump and chase strategy until they start backing off us on the blueline, and then start rushing it in. We try to force the rush too early in the game and then it gets no respect after.

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02-09-2013, 06:19 PM
  #75
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Anyone who has been even an Oilers fan never mind a potential coach ought to know the packages his players represent, and for gods sakes I am getting worried, I wasnt sure if it was Renney or K-Lowe screwing things up last year now I am sure it isnt Renney and K-Lowe has wisely left the media spotlight long enough to stabilise his reputation, so who does this leave?

The Oilers kept Hemsky jammed up Gagners arse long enough to sent the season into a spiral, if this is Ralph proving he has control of the team or putting his stamp on them it has been an utter failure.

We were missing secondary scoring three games in and it was obvious to the untrained eye, yet no reactions from our coaches? Six games in it had to be either the players or the system, so we adjusted the system and things stabilised a bit, but then BANG right back into the crapper, for the same reason the untrained eye sees, we haven NO consistant secondary scoring.

It is my assertion that Ralph Krueger has a gameplan and is sticking to it hell or highwater-- fine for Ralph and the team as they will grow together no matter what, but this SUCKS for the fans totally. This has been another season of inability to build any type of dynamic momentum, this organisation has a fundamental inability to get past statistical analysis and it is a serious problem. Sure sure sure the coach needs time to get the feel of the team, sire sure sure the players are all trying to execute Ralphs "new" system, ha ha ha I took the time to watch some of Ralphs coaching games which I HADNT done earlier and have come to a conclusion, Ralph was a periphery player and is a peripheral coach, he is a survivor and takes his pride in staying close to excellence and also is happy being a higher than normal level of comptetitor using this tactic, but it seems to me that we had that in Spades in Mac-T, I was hoping for a fresh new beginning and got the same old schtick.

Clearly this team had been babied the right way to introduce them to the NHL but this is screwy already, we take them from diapers to the Kaiser in two years? Ralph will not be able to press this team into the template he wants, these players are all NHL style players who are programmed that way, we need a coach who can "tend" the flock not create a flock of super uber-sheep. We need to let this creative talented bunch of players evolve naturally and I am afraid if we ask them to play specific system responsive roles we will handicap them, these are mostly highly skilled and talented players who need to follow a specific evolution and this does not include all being painted with the same brush this group is two or three years away from being that mature and capable, this is not a normal situation.

I believe that with this overwhelming number of skill players that we need a coaching staff who can either understand them or LEARN to understand them, not a coach who thinks he needs to teach the players to understand HIM and his system, these are all bright men with high hockey IQs that are not communication handicapped they will quickly understand Ralph and his system and this means we can quickly measure the quality of the system by simply moving our key players around when things get rocky, if we cant move players easily and find wins then the system is weak and dependant on one dimensional players to much. So far Ralph has been a fair representation of what he advertised and no harm no foul there, however I see some serious issues developing that I identified from game one and these issues are getting bigger game by game as I expected them to without inervention, Ralph is a communicator for sure he has spent a lifetime making a career out of it, so is this a technical type of communication, a tactical one? What exactly is this "communication" schtick all about? Because all I see is a sales job and an innate ability to give clear and concise commands and then to posess a big enough communications base to be able to hold every man to your orders because you obviously have all the bases covered communicationwise.

This is more like cornering the men through mastering words and communication instead of leading them all to the same page. This is "technical: communication not Intuative communication. It is by the book not on your feet thinking and execution. And personal and professional expectations of others are set this way by a self-evaluation and accredation of our own skills communicationswise compared to those we interact with, this makes us able to produce predictive results. I am saying that the lack of Intuative input present within this organisation is but a mere shadow of what was present and accounted for on within the peripheral of the Dynasty team, from the trainers to the equipment men to the coaches to the players to the owner.


The Oilers entire rebuild over twenty years has been a sad attempt to recreate a specific dynamic that they were close enough to for long enought to validate and create a belief in but lost the blueprints to when first Wayne then Mark left town carrying them in their heads. They held out, they knew they were doing it and they both kept their mouths shut and didnt share the system because there is a dark side to it that they couldnt divulge. This entire post-Dynasty era has been a wash because we have tried to plug numbers and statistical analysis and dollars into a model that will never work because it posseses none of the majic.

I cant say I disliked any coach we have had here really, it has just been very painful to watch managment screw with every one of them as they tried to keep the Dynasty template steadied. You see there is no coach we could bring here that could repeat the intuative dynamic momentum that was catalysed from within players on the ice more than the bench. There is no coach with the guts Glen Sather had and the instincts and finesse that would allow them to use a "hands off --heat on" approach like Glen did, and this is what allowed the natural evolution of the players and system to develop so perfectly it was more what Sather and Pocklington "didnt"do than what they did that supported the franchises eventual sucess.

I like Ralph Krueger, I think he brings so much to the table that it is really as solid a resume as we have ever seen here outside the NHL, I like his ability to adjust the team on ice, I like their reaction times to his requests onice, I like how he handles the media and how he manages the players off-ice, in fact I could go on and on, however there is one area that I am still trying to decipher and this is Ralphs Intuative capabilitys, these are tangible things that we all posess to some degree and this talent can be quantified , defined, and measured, and then pro-rated.
I see a void in the Intuative analysis utilisation department across the board. I am saying that I think Ralph is seriously lacking in a major ability to project across a core communication conduit and it is noticable. This is not a technical or statistical conduit it is an Intuative one-- heres the kicker you cannot support or prove results from any statistically catalysed analysis method--EVER-- yet the Oilers utilise this method as a core value organisationally. Numbers lie all the time, you can make as many educated guesses based off of statistical numbers as you want to heck thats what Vegas was built on, but is sure as hell isnt what winning dynamics are based on unless you are the House{a statistical analysis consultant}and never want to lose, in fact winning dynamics are catalysed in an environment that is polar opposite to statistical sphere of influence.

Ralph has played hockey for his entire lifetime and is as professionally adept as a man can become we have seen this already manifest itself for us on the bench and in the media. But how much has Ralph "won", how "dominant" was Ralph when he played , because winning breeds winning it is like a muscle memory in the brain synapses and you can either be the catalyst of it or a piece of tinder that explodes beside the catalyst consistantly. The difference is absolutely critical. If one stays in a single competative dynamic and specialises in it they become comfortable and well versed. There is "hockey smart" and "hockey wise" one is the technical ability to execute and the other is the absolute undersatanding dynamicly that allows you to win equally as often applying non-technical input. I believe we have always had "hockey smart" coaches here but not all have been "hockey wise" Mac-T was "hockey wise" and that is how he adjusted a fastbreak defensive team into an offensive surgical team overnight, his brain remembered the right template and he used his intuition as much as his cerebellum. Ralph wasnt blessed to play with the guys Mac-T played with, he didnt get the opportunity to develop the muscle/synapse memorys that Mac-T has. This is precisely why Mac-T was brought here, to supplement our coaching staffs technical prowess with some old fashioned instincts.

However remember that Mac-T wasnt exactly a core spoke in the offensive wheels that drove that team, in fact his defensive awareness was elite and his two way game was outstanding, he was relied on for it as well as his legendary toughness. So the reality is that Mac-T was not the catalyst of that offensive or team system he was a man who was close enough to the fire to become tempered and he was smart enough to be absorbing the "winning feeling" or dynamic repetativeness that represents that on the ice. So Mac-T gives us a close interpretation of the Dynasty system but it isnt 100% natural to him, he wasnt born thinking this way, he evolved into an intuative thinker on the ice in real time by experiencing specific individual and team dynamics repeatedly. No problems because this perspective is teachable, the real question is is it understandable and adjustable by the man who has it.

Both mac-T and Krueger are cerebral coaches who have a very solid grasp of defensive schematics and tactics, Mac-T has an intuative edge, but neither are naturally born Intuative communicators or thinkers-- they are sucessfull learners. We are better off than most teams in this department.I believe that if the Oilers found the creator of the NewAge Hockey System then they would be able to acess an Intuative thinker who could add to their support base, I dont believe that using the Yellow Pages to recruit one is really possible because they are seeking a sports dynamic specialist and they are uncommon, winning is rarely found in convention and without integrity so maybe its time to circumvent convention and apply integrity and contact this individual who is local to the team. Seriously, I saw the videos that introduced DarkHorse as a source of data for the Oilers, and this is a prime example of what to not do, the Oilers identified a gap or a void and then instead of finding the right solution which was intuative and new they to fill the void , they followed convention and did what other NHL teams are trending with, they paid for a Statistical Analysis consultant to help them, ha ha ha, a spin doctor and his crew, how classic. They couldnt resource an Intuative Analysis perspective so they found a placebo that is in dynamic perspective a "yes man" because stats cannot be supported and proven to be effective in any results based manner, they are simply educated guesses with no tangibe content. What they really needed and still need is an Intuative perspective that is not a dynamic "yes man" they need to be rubbed the wrong ways by something gritty and accurate and results based enough to shape and form them against their own will, they need Intiuative direction to take the next step. Ralph Krueger is every bit qualified to run this team and he has my support as a fan, however the organisation as a whole needs to address its long term and short term expectations downwards if they plan of relying on stats based input in so many core areas.

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