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When Niskanen Heals

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Old
02-09-2013, 01:39 AM
  #151
Tender Rip
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Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
I really don't see how all of this isn't crystal clear and obvious.
Then show me one single previous Cup winner that had half its defenders have less than two years of NHL experience.... or anything just remotely similar to that. In your argument two of our veterans are even supposed to be Letang and Niskanen, the latter being a border line top 4 D-man on a strong D to begin with, and frankly shouldn't be on ours come playoff time as he isn't the right partner for Letang and should never be on a shut down unit.

Letang took three years before he was one to trust in a top4 capacity, and that is being kind considering his playoff performances and who he has matched up against. Brooks and Scuderi where 28 and 30 respectively, having had three/four years of full time NHL hockey under their belt after ample WBS time, and both of them only came to as top4 guys while being guided by a genuine, veteran nr.1 in Sergei Gonchar.

Maybe we get real lucky with the kids' development, but just the same. If you cannot find any previous examples of such a youth heavy D winning a cup, then you should frankly reconsider what you find crystal clear and obvious, IMHO.

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02-09-2013, 02:08 AM
  #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugene Malkin View Post
Double fix, I was right the first time.

Niskanen had a TOI/PG of 21:02.
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Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
I am one of those who think we can deal Nisky and have the youngsters take the extra minutes (because while not as good alround they add elements we need more than what Nisky does).
But for fairness sake, you cannot do a TOI comparison after five games without adjusting for Nisky leaving the Ottawa game injured after the first period.

In the first four games he averaged almost 22 minutes per, and him not being there for the last two periods and OT in Ottawa meant the other three playing huge minutes which further inflates the gap. Same consequence for Brooks and Martin with Letang not being in there against the Caps.

Just saying. Flip-side is that the same kind of reasons account for his elevated TOI last year of course. Injuries to others made him seem more important than he is.
Good call. I was actually thinking it was a little low!

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02-09-2013, 06:45 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
Cap WILL go up for the 3rd year - either from revenue, or the player 5% escalator (or both). Not a lot, but likely at least 3-4m. That 3-4m is all that's needed to allow the Pens to squeeze by.
You could be right, but it's not a given. At a 5% revenue growth, the cap for the 14/15 season projects to be a little north of 65m (a little shy of 69m if the players exercise the escalator).

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02-09-2013, 11:40 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
Then show me one single previous Cup winner that had half its defenders have less than two years of NHL experience.... or anything just remotely similar to that.
LA's cup team would probably be the closest. Doughty in his 3rd season, Voyov in his 1st and Martinez in his 2nd.

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Originally Posted by Alesle View Post
You could be right, but it's not a given. At a 5% revenue growth, the cap for the 14/15 season projects to be a little north of 65m (a little shy of 69m if the players exercise the escalator).
The NHLPA will absolutely use the escalator. They used it every year before, and have absolutely no reason not to use it now.

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02-09-2013, 12:56 PM
  #155
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I'm really gonna hate

I'm really gonna hate to see Robert Bortuzzo sit when Niskanen comes back.

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02-09-2013, 12:59 PM
  #156
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i wanna see bortuzzo fight someone

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02-09-2013, 01:06 PM
  #157
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Ya I betcha he can throw.

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02-09-2013, 01:20 PM
  #158
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i'm with ya, jimmy

love his snarl


anyone know about his fighting abilities

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02-09-2013, 01:44 PM
  #159
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I think it will be reece sitting

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02-09-2013, 01:58 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by YinzerpenguiN View Post
I think it will be reece sitting
right. Obviously this shifted to Letang and Niskanen coming back

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02-09-2013, 01:59 PM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YinzerpenguiN View Post
I think it will be reece sitting
Reece is only up because both Niskanen and Letang are out. But once we're healthy it'll be one of Bortuzzo or Engelland that will sit... and I'm absolutely loving Bortuzzo's game today. Hopefully Niskanen takes another 2 full weeks to come back... Because I want to see a lot more of Bort.

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02-09-2013, 04:23 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
Reece is only up because both Niskanen and Letang are out. But once we're healthy it'll be one of Bortuzzo or Engelland that will sit... and I'm absolutely loving Bortuzzo's game today. Hopefully Niskanen takes another 2 full weeks to come back... Because I want to see a lot more of Bort.
And Despres

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02-09-2013, 04:30 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
Then show me one single previous Cup winner that had half its defenders have less than two years of NHL experience.... or anything just remotely similar to that. In your argument two of our veterans are even supposed to be Letang and Niskanen, the latter being a border line top 4 D-man on a strong D to begin with, and frankly shouldn't be on ours come playoff time as he isn't the right partner for Letang and should never be on a shut down unit.
Huh? Niskanen looked incredible beside Letang, TR.

They read off each other very, very well.

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02-09-2013, 07:21 PM
  #164
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We need Niskanen...we need the depth.

Reese is the #7. Rolling into the playoffs with Reese as the #7 is not the depth that wins cups.

Letang-Nisk
Orpik-Martin
Despres-Engo
Bortuzzo-Reese

Even then, a better #8 would be preferable.

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02-09-2013, 07:48 PM
  #165
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you don't win cups with Dupuis and Boychuk in the top 6 either. We don't need Niskanen. We need someone better than Dylan Reese. If it costs us Niskanen to get the forwards we need, we can use a pick or something to bring in a solid vet number 7 ala Gill, Sydor, Boucher etc. Ideally we can get the forwards without touching our roster defense. But the ideal scenario is typically not the most probable.

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02-10-2013, 09:40 AM
  #166
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The Pens shouldn't deal any of their top 7 defensemen before the off-season...whatever deal for a winger they make at the deadline should only include futures and maybe a roster forward.

Defensive depth in the playoffs is just too damn important. Two blueline injuries can happen real quick (esp. to us, for some reason), and if it does after we deal a steady, versatile guy like Nisky, we're sunk.

But even more importantly, this playoffs is a huge testing ground for Martin. The big knock on him is his ability to change his urgency to suit the situation, and as good as he's been so far this year, the playoffs are a different animal. We may need to jettison some salary in the off-season if we want to sign a quality scoring winger, and if Martin has trouble in the playoffs again, I'd much rather deal him and retain the cheaper, younger, playoff-performing Niskanen.

Martin's place on this team shouldn't be as iron-clad as some are making out after the first 12 games of the regular season. On the whole, Niskanen has been a better, more consistent player for us ever since the beginning of last year.

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Old
02-10-2013, 10:05 AM
  #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Huh? Niskanen looked incredible beside Letang, TR.

They read off each other very, very well.
Just like many people initially said Letang and Martin was a great couple because they got points. I don't trust that pairing defensively, and I think many here have been overrating Niskanen a lot for about a year.
Perhaps because he has been so much better than advertised by Dallas fans.

More importantly, Letang isn't perfect and Niskaben doesn't cover his relative flaws at all. Despres does however, and thankfully Letang's skating can help cover for inevitable rookie mistakes from Despres. I'd much rather invest in that pairing.

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02-10-2013, 10:09 AM
  #168
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Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
Just like many people initially said Letang and Martin was a great couple because they got points. I don't trust that pairing defensively, and I think many here have been overrating Niskanen a lot for about a year.
Perhaps because he has been so much better than advertised by Dallas fans.

More importantly, Letang isn't perfect and Niskaben doesn't cover his relative flaws at all. Despres does however, and thankfully Letang's skating can help cover for inevitable rookie mistakes from Despres. I'd much rather invest in that pairing.
We just disagree here, TR. I have no idea why you wouldn't trust the pairing, as they were nothing short of rock-solid every game this year...and it has nothing to do with points. They clearly understood where each other were going to be, communicated well, and had an immediate comfort level.

I was always at ease when those two were on the ice together. It's a less dynamic pairing than Despres/Letang, but it's also less mistake-prone.

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02-10-2013, 10:13 AM
  #169
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Niskanen skating with the team again. Hope he's back soon.

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02-10-2013, 10:21 AM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
We just disagree here, TR. I have no idea why you wouldn't trust the pairing, as they were nothing short of rock-solid every game this year...and it has nothing to do with points. They clearly understood where each other were going to be, communicated well, and had an immediate comfort level.

I was always at ease when those two were on the ice together. It's a less dynamic pairing than Despres/Letang, but it's also less mistake-prone.
Tanger has even been quoted as saying he's never felt as comfortable with a partner as he has with Nisky. I wasn't sure of the pairing at first but they proved me way wrong.

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02-10-2013, 10:24 AM
  #171
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Niskanen skating with the team again. Hope he's back soon.
I predict by Wednesdays game. That would allow DB to replace Letang for Niskanen for the time being.

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02-10-2013, 10:28 AM
  #172
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Originally Posted by WhoDaresWins View Post
Tanger has even been quoted as saying he's never felt as comfortable with a partner as he has with Nisky. I wasn't sure of the pairing at first but they proved me way wrong.
Yeah I forgot about that article. Pretty cool:

http://triblive.com/sports/penguins/...#axzz2KQHEZ3vE

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02-10-2013, 12:59 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
That would then give us 4 out of our 6 defenseman that are 6'4" and over 210lbs.
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
Am just curious who those 4 D are that are all over 6-4? Dumo, Despres, Bort yes...
Reid McNeill is the fourth man

while its unlikely he ever becomes a fixture on the blueline, he is 6'4" and mobile.

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02-10-2013, 01:06 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by Lost in Crafton View Post
Reid McNeill is the fourth man

while its unlikely he ever becomes a fixture on the blueline, he is 6'4" and mobile.
Is it really my fault that I just assumed Orpik was 6'4" if that's how big he plays?

If anybody is to blame, it's clearly Orpik for not growing 2 more inches.

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02-12-2013, 08:29 AM
  #175
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I will ask this.. Bortuzzo and Engelland play well together, plus Pens are very physical and you really need these two.

What has Orpik done this year? Time to move on from him IMO.

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