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Michael Ryder opts for salary arbitration

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Old
07-05-2006, 11:09 PM
  #51
Kimota
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Daniel Briere
Jean-Pierre Dumont
Aren`t they UFA next year?

If so, me like.

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07-06-2006, 05:27 AM
  #52
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We have all seen M.Ryder for 2 years now.

The Good - He hits the net, has a good shot, he comes to play.He is a finisher.

The Bad- Average speed- his defence needs work- he is well below average at carring the puck- can't beat his grandmother one on one. Does not create chances for others.

Ryder got 30 goals but he played on the top 2 lines and played on most powerplays. almost anyone that gets that quality ice time would have got 20 goals. Ryder is in real danger to be pushed off this ice time with Prez or Kost or UFA. If he goes down to the 3rd line his production will fall to 20 goals. So with a few defects and 20 goals, what is he realy worth?

Current value is high due to his 30 goals but that's as good as it gets for Ryder. As soon as either Prez or Kost have a breakout year , Ryder will lose much of his quality ice time.

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07-06-2006, 08:05 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by RC51 View Post
We have all seen M.Ryder for 2 years now.

The Good - He hits the net, has a good shot, he comes to play.He is a finisher.

The Bad- Average speed- his defence needs work- he is well below average at carring the puck- can't beat his grandmother one on one. Does not create chances for others.

Ryder got 30 goals but he played on the top 2 lines and played on most powerplays. almost anyone that gets that quality ice time would have got 20 goals. Ryder is in real danger to be pushed off this ice time with Prez or Kost or UFA. If he goes down to the 3rd line his production will fall to 20 goals. So with a few defects and 20 goals, what is he realy worth?

Current value is high due to his 30 goals but that's as good as it gets for Ryder. As soon as either Prez or Kost have a breakout year , Ryder will lose much of his quality ice time.
There were a lot of big names who also played the powerplay with Ryder but didn't score 30 goals!!

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07-06-2006, 08:21 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by RC51 View Post
We have all seen M.Ryder for 2 years now.

The Good - He hits the net, has a good shot, he comes to play.He is a finisher.

The Bad- Average speed- his defence needs work- he is well below average at carring the puck- can't beat his grandmother one on one. Does not create chances for others.

Ryder got 30 goals but he played on the top 2 lines and played on most powerplays. almost anyone that gets that quality ice time would have got 20 goals. Ryder is in real danger to be pushed off this ice time with Prez or Kost or UFA. If he goes down to the 3rd line his production will fall to 20 goals. So with a few defects and 20 goals, what is he realy worth?

Current value is high due to his 30 goals but that's as good as it gets for Ryder. As soon as either Prez or Kost have a breakout year , Ryder will lose much of his quality ice time.
He scored 18 of those goals on the PP. Even if he were to get pushed to the 3rd line, which I doubt will happen (I'm expecting Perez on the 3rd line with Pleks, and I expect Ryder to play with Higgins and Koivu), he would still definitely be on the first PP unit.

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07-06-2006, 08:23 AM
  #55
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I almost get the feeling that people are implying it's a bad thing that Ryder scores so much on the powerplay. Last time I checked, a PP goal and an ES goal both counted the same on the scoreboard.

Ryder is something we have very few of, a sniper. Once again people think we can just dump our few goal scorers and just throw in a rookie and not lose a step. It doesn't work that way.

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07-06-2006, 08:23 AM
  #56
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I'm not surprised he went for arbitration...What the hell is Gainey doing nickel and diming our best scorer like that?

I don't understand...He doesn't spend money on FAs...And he doesn't open the wallet for our RFAs either? What is the money for then?

Seriously...After 2 seasons like he's had you offer him Steve Begin money...I don't understand...

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07-06-2006, 08:51 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by fufonzo View Post
He scored 18 of those goals on the PP. Even if he were to get pushed to the 3rd line, which I doubt will happen (I'm expecting Perez on the 3rd line with Pleks, and I expect Ryder to play with Higgins and Koivu), he would still definitely be on the first PP unit.
Go back and re-read my post please.
Ryder get top minutes because the Habs don't have better. If a 50 goal scorer came along Ryder would be out ( right !)
Or put it to you this way, if Steve Begin would become a 40 goal scorer he would beat out Ryder for his spot. As good as Ryder is, I wish the Habs to get bettter, therefore Ryder is in thier until someone comes along that's BETTER. With Prez and Kost next year and if one of them breaks out then Ryder might lose his spot.

I wish Ryder to lose his spot, not because I don't like him but because someone came along that's better. Better means better.

Is it going to happen next year, well I doubt it also, but lets get things right, last year nobody the Habs have could beat him out, this year two have the potential, next year maybe two more and so on. Ryder is vulnerable because of his defence and lack of creativity. He is not slow but his is no speed skater either.

Thier will come a time when the Habs MUST assess Ryder against others on the Habs and decide to trade him before his production goes down for maximum trade value. Right now it's high, this year it will still be high because I don't see Prez or Kost become instant 45 goal scorers ( not yet).

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07-06-2006, 08:53 AM
  #58
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I can't wait till Ryder outscores everyone once again next season.

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07-06-2006, 08:59 AM
  #59
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Go back and re-read my post please.
Ryder get top minutes because the Habs don't have better. If a 50 goal scorer came along Ryder would be out ( right !)
Or put it to you this way, if Steve Begin would become a 40 goal scorer he would beat out Ryder for his spot. As good as Ryder is, I wish the Habs to get bettter, therefore Ryder is in thier until someone comes along that's BETTER. With Prez and Kost next year and if one of them breaks out then Ryder might lose his spot.

I wish Ryder to lose his spot, not because I don't like him but because someone came along that's better. Better means better.

Is it going to happen next year, well I doubt it also, but lets get things right, last year nobody the Habs have could beat him out, this year two have the potential, next year maybe two more and so on. Ryder is vulnerable because of his defence and lack of creativity. He is not slow but his is no speed skater either.

Thier will come a time when the Habs MUST assess Ryder against others on the Habs and decide to trade him before his production goes down for maximum trade value. Right now it's high, this year it will still be high because I don't see Prez or Kost become instant 45 goal scorers ( not yet).
Quick...name me one Habs player that has scored more goals then Ryder the last two seasons combined...

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07-06-2006, 09:01 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Tuggy View Post
Quick...name me one Habs player that has scored more goals then Ryder the last two seasons combined...
Seriously...Some people just don't get it. He's our best scorer and will be for a long time. He will outscore all those rookies next year, and the year after, and the year after. He's a goal machine and this team NEEDS him to make the playoffs.

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07-06-2006, 09:02 AM
  #61
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As much as I not his biggest fan, I'm not his greatest detractor as well. You can't replace those clutch goals he scores that's for sure but I'm not a fan of his overall game either.

But I can't get over the fact that Mark Bell and Kyle Calder are on the same boat as well and we might have a chance to make a trade involving those guys. I'm high on Bell but very high on Calder as well. And if the respective teams have some trouble adressing their needs, well a change of scenery might be good for all of them. It's not the first time that Ryder has some problem to sign his contract.....

But it would address two great needs, a real power forward, and real non-stop hard working guy, that I would place on the same category as the Fisher's and Draper's of this world.

But I wouldn't let go Ryder for nothing. But let just say that if we're interested in trading for something interesting, we have to let go the Ribeiro's and the Zednik's in a trade, it just doesn't work that way.

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07-06-2006, 09:03 AM
  #62
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Ryder is like Zednik or Rucinsky ;

the only thing he can do is shutting the puck, but he do it well .

He 's one of the worst selfish player of the NHL , after Zednik . He can scores 30 goals , but he can gives away the puck 3000 times during a season . Once again , i think that there is just Zednik to beat him in that .

How do you pay that kind of player ? i really don't know .

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07-06-2006, 09:03 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Tuggy View Post
Quick...name me one Habs player that has scored more goals then Ryder the last two seasons combined...
You forget that his is HFBoards. According to the wiseguys here, give Perezhogin, Kostitsyn, Latendresse, or Grabovsky top line ice-time they'd put up 30 goals with no worries. That's why alot of people here are under the misguided notion that Ryder is expendable... which he's absolutely not.

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07-06-2006, 09:07 AM
  #64
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That's what I don't understand. We are already an offensively challenged team, and yet countless people want to trade away our top goal scorer. It makes me wonder about the thought process that some fans use to come up with their conclusions.

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07-06-2006, 09:08 AM
  #65
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If Ryder demostrates what he did to us in Game 6 vs Carolina (minus the turn-over blunder), then he will be a valuable asset. He did it all that game; he played a well rounded offensive and defensive game with hitting, passing, back checking, shooting etc..

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07-06-2006, 09:09 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
Seriously...Some people just don't get it. He's our best scorer and will be for a long time. He will outscore all those rookies next year, and the year after, and the year after. He's a goal machine and this team NEEDS him to make the playoffs.
True that that's the closest of a sniper that we have right now. But how you can imply that he will be the one for every single year till he retires, well I wouldn't know that so how would you know?

I never though as Higgins as a 1st line material, always though the guy would a perfect 3rd liner, guess what he surprised a lot of people....Why would Perez, Kosty or any other guy in that matter wouldn't do the same in 2 or 3 years? Not next year, but down the road we don't know that yet.

Again, hear me out, since UFA is out of the question or sort of, and for most of the people the draft is a crapshoot, well there's one solution left to try and get better is by trading. And it's not with Downey, Zednik or Murray that you'll have something significant. But Gainey cannot and could not trade him to get someone equivalent to him, there's just no need for that, he would have to think he gets more.

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07-06-2006, 09:11 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by RC51 View Post
Go back and re-read my post please.
Ryder get top minutes because the Habs don't have better. If a 50 goal scorer came along Ryder would be out ( right !)
Or put it to you this way, if Steve Begin would become a 40 goal scorer he would beat out Ryder for his spot. As good as Ryder is, I wish the Habs to get bettter, therefore Ryder is in thier until someone comes along that's BETTER. With Prez and Kost next year and if one of them breaks out then Ryder might lose his spot.

I wish Ryder to lose his spot, not because I don't like him but because someone came along that's better. Better means better.

Is it going to happen next year, well I doubt it also, but lets get things right, last year nobody the Habs have could beat him out, this year two have the potential, next year maybe two more and so on. Ryder is vulnerable because of his defence and lack of creativity. He is not slow but his is no speed skater either.

Thier will come a time when the Habs MUST assess Ryder against others on the Habs and decide to trade him before his production goes down for maximum trade value. Right now it's high, this year it will still be high because I don't see Prez or Kost become instant 45 goal scorers ( not yet).
For starters, I'm not a huge Ryder fan. I agree that he's pretty unidimensional and has some glaring weaknesses in his defensive game, but the guy can score. He was 11th in the league for powerplay goals.

It was only his second season and I don't think he's necessarily done getting better. From what I've seen and heard, he has a strong work ethic and can definitely improve, especially in the defensive aspect of his game.

I agree that if Kosts or Perez can definitely surpass him they could take over his spot on the first two lines, but even if one of them did, I still think Ryder would get on the 1st PP unit.

But for the time being, I'm happy to pay Ryder 2-3 million a year for one or two year to score 30ish goals for us.

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07-06-2006, 09:15 AM
  #68
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That's what I don't understand. We are already an offensively challenged team, and yet countless people want to trade away our top goal scorer. It makes me wonder about the thought process that some fans use to come up with their conclusions.

Well I like this better than people who wants to get Ovechkin for Ribeiro. I guess that it's easier to trade useless players for great ones, but Milbury is not a GM anymore.

But again, if a team overrates Ryder and is ready to give you a Mark Bell type of a guy and a puck moving d-men, you wouldn't even consider it???

I'm not the type of fan who just want to get rid of him just because there's tons of games he's totally invisible 'cause I know that the real snipers like him and Kovy, have their moments and we have to live with that. I'm just stating that you can't close your eyes on possible great deals just because he is what is. Is he the only untouchable on the Habs squad???

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07-06-2006, 09:17 AM
  #69
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Well I like this better than people who wants to get Ovechkin for Ribeiro. I guess that it's easier to trade useless players for great ones, but Milbury is not a GM anymore.

But again, if a team overrates Ryder and is ready to give you a Mark Bell type of a guy and a puck moving d-men, you wouldn't even consider it???

I'm not the type of fan who just want to get rid of him just because there's tons of games he's totally invisible 'cause I know that the real snipers like him and Kovy, have their moments and we have to live with that. I'm just stating that you can't close your eyes on possible great deals just because he is what is. Is he the only untouchable on the Habs squad???
He's certainly not untouchable but that's not what I meant. I mean it seems everyone is so eager to get rid of him, that they are missing what he brings to the team.

And no way who fetch Ryder fetch Bell+. Bell for Ryder straight up would be a fairly even trade and I would probably go for it.

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07-06-2006, 09:21 AM
  #70
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You forget that his is HFBoards. According to the wiseguys here, give Perezhogin, Kostitsyn, Latendresse, or Grabovsky top line ice-time they'd put up 30 goals with no worries. That's why alot of people here are under the misguided notion that Ryder is expendable... which he's absolutely not.
As far as today is concerned, you're right. We can't expect Grabo because he had 3 great shift at the World's or Latendresse because he played great in the preseason against some AHl'er to think they could surpass Ryder a ''proven'' sniper. Of course not. As far as Perez is concerned, I expect bigger things from him though I don't expect him to be a sniper doesn't seem to have the finish to do so. Though, my expectations on Kosty, not next year, are much higher than that and I may be totally wrong. But they've drafted him with this on their mind, and I still think he's the closest thing to a sniper we've got. But as of next year, nobody can tell you in their right mind, that either of those guys will have 40 goals.

Ryder becomes expendable if he's replaced by a more complete player who do score clutch goals as well on a regular basis. We can't win with 15 rookies in our lineup and a proven young veteran will need to be added.

But I wouldn't be the one calling the 30 teams to give them Ryder, only if a great occasion is there, I would at least consider it....

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07-06-2006, 09:21 AM
  #71
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I guess I am biased because Ryders game is alot more complete in my eyes then all of yours lol.

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07-06-2006, 09:21 AM
  #72
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Ryder is like Zednik or Rucinsky ;

the only thing he can do is shutting the puck, but he do it well .

He 's one of the worst selfish player of the NHL , after Zednik . He can scores 30 goals , but he can gives away the puck 3000 times during a season . Once again , i think that there is just Zednik to beat him in that .

How do you pay that kind of player ? i really don't know .
Well, Brett Hull made some pretty decent money.

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07-06-2006, 09:26 AM
  #73
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He's certainly not untouchable but that's not what I meant. I mean it seems everyone is so eager to get rid of him, that they are missing what he brings to the team.

And no way who fetch Ryder fetch Bell+. Bell for Ryder straight up would be a fairly even trade and I would probably go for it.

That's what I'm saying then. I don't understand either people wanting to get rid of him like that, he has his flaws but I believe scoring goals is still important in this game so he's a keeper.....unless Bell comes my way or other player like that.....As far as Bell for Ryder well I would try adding some more names, 'cause I would like to leave Chicago with Calder (I know I'm greedy....). But obviously if I were Chicago the price to pay would be very very high....Or does the price to pay get lower when you get into ''RFA signature problem''????

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07-06-2006, 09:54 AM
  #74
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2,3M$ for garbage goals? I don't know... Ryder isn't a complete player and I personnaly wouldn't give him a 1 year contract that big at this point of his career. Bouillon needed to be a UFA to get less than 2M$... I don't see why Ryder should get over 2M$... he contributes with goals, but at least 10 of those goals were garbage goals.... i.e. Marcel Hossa type of goals.

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07-06-2006, 09:58 AM
  #75
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2,3M$ for garbage goals? I don't know... Ryder isn't a complete player and I personnaly wouldn't give him a 1 year contract that big at this point of his career. Bouillon needed to be a UFA to get less than 2M$... I don't see why Ryder should get over 2M$... he contributes with goals, but at least 10 of those goals were garbage goals.... i.e. Marcel Hossa type of goals.
It doesn't matter how he got those goals. He got those goals. Why doesn't Marcel Hossa have 30 goals? Why doesn't anybody else have 30 goals?
If garbage goals are so easy to get, wouldn't everybody have a ton?
Garbage goals are just as important as any othe goal and Ryder has a knack of knowing where to go at the right time. Just because most aren't highlight real, doesn't mean they're useless.

Ryder is worth much more than Bouillon.

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