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La 4eme fois, on est mieux de comprendre

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02-09-2013, 10:14 PM
  #326
Undertakerqc
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Originally Posted by CHill Seeker View Post
guys there are going to be growing pains when it comes to team identity. habs were known for YEARS as soft and easy to play against. So now they are trying to reestablish grit and grow a pair of balls.

tonight they decided to go down fighting and Leafs hated what Prust did to Grabovsky. White wasn't there and Moen was AWOL- so guys with letters on their sweaters stepped up.

In the future, if habs decide to send 'messages' they better consider bringing another deterrent into the lineup - otherwise expect heavyweights to take liberties.

this would've been no different vs. buffalo, boston or Ottawa - or even Philly
We are still very soft... we have the same identity has the last 15 years, soft and small. It got better this year with the addition of Prust, but i was hoping much more grit from guys like Armstrong and Moen.

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02-09-2013, 10:14 PM
  #327
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No, but I'm sick of people complaining about history. This team is a victim of it's own history, enough comparing it to the past. You probably celebrated when the Habs traded Chelios for a Quebecois legend for character purposes.

Saying you need "both skill and toughness" isn't a formula, it's basic common sense. But this isn't the 80's, it's not even 93, the rules are different the demographic makeup of the league is different. Savard was a great GM who stayed longer than he should have. before the "smurf" era the Habs were infamous for drafting big western Canadian busts instead of adapting to the times.
Chelios was not traded by Savard but by Corey. It was an order from the prez. Savard didn't want to do it. This is when the Corey-Savard relationship started to sour...and when Savard decided that he had better things to do.

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02-09-2013, 10:15 PM
  #328
Lafleurs Guy
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We used to be an org. that had our **** together. We were like the Red Wings and Devils, we had the smartest guys and we were respected. Serge left and everything crumbled like a deck of cards.
We used to be really tough to play against. Our forwards were McPhee, Skrudland, Cheilos, Green, Ludwig, Corson, Richer, Smith, Carbonneau... Pretty big guys with some skill. Teams did not like coming into our rink.

That's gone now.

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02-09-2013, 10:15 PM
  #329
Et le But
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We used to be an org. that had our **** together. We were like the Red Wings and Devils, we had the smartest guys and we were respected. Serge left and everything crumbled like a deck of cards.
When the Red Wings were drafting Lidstrom, Fedorov and Konstantinov, Savard was busy drafting Brisebois, "Red Light" Racicot and Patrick Lebeau.

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We used to be really tough to play against. Our forwards were McPhee, Skrudland, Cheilos, Green, Ludwig, Corson, Richer, Smith, Carbonneau... Pretty big guys with some skill. Teams did not like coming into our rink.

That's gone now.

Guys like that were mostly two way talents. Our best forward in 93 was possibly Mueller, who was willing to do a little of everything.

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02-09-2013, 10:16 PM
  #330
Kimota
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
No, but I'm sick of people complaining about history. This team is a victim of it's own history, enough comparing it to the past. You probably celebrated when the Habs traded Chelios for a Quebecois legend for character purposes.
People will always talk about the past because we didn't suck in the past.

Quote:
Saying you need "both skill and toughness" isn't a formula, it's basic common sense. But this isn't the 80's, it's not even 93, the rules are different the demographic makeup of the league is different.
Say that to the Devils, they've never ever changed their game plan other than getting Kovalchuk. We used to be like the Devils, confident, smart, and never EVER intimidated.

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Savard was a great GM who stayed longer than he should have. before the "smurf" era the Habs were infamous for drafting big western Canadian busts instead of adapting to the times.
And they should have continued drafting big western guys. Getzlav instead of Andrei Kostitsyn. This would never have happened under Serge.

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02-09-2013, 10:18 PM
  #331
Hugo Sham
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Originally Posted by Patofqc View Post
We are still very soft... we have the same identity has the last 15 years, soft and small. It got better this year with the addition of Prust, but i was hoping much more grit from guys like Armstrong and Moen.
i don't disagree, but habs are not going to bring in a goon who can't play. they are not going to get a goon to play Toronto. i agree they need to get tough in their top 6 though. and i would replace armstrong with White

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02-09-2013, 10:18 PM
  #332
Et le But
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And they should have continued drafting big western guys. Getzlav instead of Andrei Kostitsyn. This would never have happened under Serge.
But let me guess, you think drafting Brisebois and Lebeau over Lidstrom and Federov was a great move.

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Say that to the Devils, they've never ever changed their game plan other than getting Kovalchuk. We used to be like the Devils, confident, smart, and never EVER intimidated.
The Devils have done a great job keeping a core together that plays hard on both ends no matter what the situation. Yes, that's an example of great management.

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02-09-2013, 10:18 PM
  #333
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Its amazing to me how many people are pushing the panic button saying change the culture, we need a goon, etc. Reimer played very well, and the habs as a team got forced into playing another teams game. Prust and White are tough enough. If a heavyweight that can play and has some legs is available, sure. Habs are a better team than tonight

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02-09-2013, 10:18 PM
  #334
Kimota
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
When the Red Wings were drafting Lidstrom, Fedorov and Konstantinov, Savard was busy drafting Brisebois, "Red Light" Racicot and Patrick Lebeau.
.
He also drafted Patrick Roy, Claude Lemieux and Stephane Richer. Your whole argument against Savard is out of the loop.

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02-09-2013, 10:19 PM
  #335
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
When the Red Wings were drafting Lidstrom, Fedorov and Konstantinov, Savard was busy drafting Brisebois, "Red Light" Racicot and Patrick Lebeau.
Maybe. But we won the cup. It took lightyears for Detroit to take a sniff at it. For your info, Savard wanted to draft Soviets. But he was discouraged by other members of his organisation. This is where Savard lost it: already too much involved in other business ventures, he had given a lot of clout to the wrong people, including Boudrias.

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02-09-2013, 10:21 PM
  #336
Lafleurs Guy
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Guys like that were mostly two way talents. Our best forward in 93 was possibly Mueller, who was willing to do a little of everything.
Well this is what I'm saying. Fill in your lineup with guys with decent size. They don't have to all be superstars but sitting there filling it out with Gionta, DD and Gallagher isn't going to get you anywhere. One of those forwards? Sure. Two of them? I don't really like it but okay. Three makes no sense.

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02-09-2013, 10:21 PM
  #337
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So how did that third go? I shut it off after the second. Did Gallagher win his fight?

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02-09-2013, 10:21 PM
  #338
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Originally Posted by CrimsonSkorpion View Post
Moen and Armstrong. Looking at you two while Gallagher and Gorges drop them, and Bourque gets dropped like $3 million dollars worth of bricks.
Agreed. These two still haven't brought a thing to the team this season, and Moen only gets a bare pass since he's brought a lot for us in seasons past. Armstrong is useless to us, and I almost never say that about a player.

Our passing game was disgusting tonight. Markov, Subban and Plekanec were the only guys who could hit most of their targets. No one seemed to be able to do a proper dump and chase either. Therrien needed to switch up his strategy too, but kept forcing one that wasn't working.

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02-09-2013, 10:22 PM
  #339
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So how did that third go? I shut it off after the second. Did Gallagher win his fight?
He fought Kostka and got rap'ed

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02-09-2013, 10:22 PM
  #340
Kimota
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So is blaming everything on Europeans, as you have before.
Not everything.

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02-09-2013, 10:22 PM
  #341
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So how did that third go? I shut it off after the second. Did Gallagher win his fight?
It wasn't annihilation but we lost every fight or so. Wasn't too embarrassing but it was still salt in the wounds.

By the by, I expect you on the **** GIONTA & DD bandwagon and social club. We'll be serving Tex-Mex at our first function.

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02-09-2013, 10:23 PM
  #342
Et le But
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Well this is what I'm saying. Fill in your lineup with guys with decent size. They don't have to all be superstars but sitting there filling it out with Gionta, DD and Gallagher isn't going to get you anywhere. One of those forwards? Sure. Two of them? I don't really like it but okay. Three makes no sense.
I think most of us at this point think Gionta and Desharnais should be replaced by more balanced players. But the problem isn't that they are small, it's that they are small and aren't exactly the second coming of St. Louis or Theo Fleury, or even Mats Naslund. Enough with the underdog stories.

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02-09-2013, 10:24 PM
  #343
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Drop it guys. We had our glory days. This is the present. WE SUCK get over it.

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02-09-2013, 10:24 PM
  #344
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Teams are adapting to out stretched out pass scheme. Just like they had under Carbo. By pressing the D's to commit, we make bad passes inthe neutral zone resulting in turnovers. And our forwards are way too far to be in the play.

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02-09-2013, 10:25 PM
  #345
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Drop it guys. We had our glory days. This is the present. WE SUCK get over it.
Oh yes the team sucks. It willl take aout 3-4 more years of good drafting before having a contender here.

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02-09-2013, 10:25 PM
  #346
OneSharpMarble
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It wasn't annihilation but we lost every fight or so. Wasn't too embarrassing but it was still salt in the wounds.

By the by, I expect you on the **** GIONTA & DD bandwagon and social club. We'll be serving Tex-Mex at our first function.
Get out of my head! I was just thinking of trading Gionta at the deadline.

Also DD better get his ass in gear, his future does not look bright.

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02-09-2013, 10:26 PM
  #347
WhiskeySeven
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Teams are adapting to out stretched out pass scheme. Just like they had under Carbo. By pressing the D's to commit, we make bad passes inthe neutral zone resulting in turnovers. And our forwards are way too far to be in the play.
You're right actually. I wonder if Therrien will adapt a LW drop or something or we're bound for THE SYSTEM(tm) again.

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02-09-2013, 10:26 PM
  #348
Kimota
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Guy on radio just said "Travis Moyen".

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02-09-2013, 10:27 PM
  #349
habtastic
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Its amazing to me how many people are pushing the panic button saying change the culture, we need a goon, etc. Reimer played very well, and the habs as a team got forced into playing another teams game. Prust and White are tough enough. If a heavyweight that can play and has some legs is available, sure. Habs are a better team than tonight
Yup, pretty much agree with this.

There is only one problem with the Habs:

Their best line last year (which was incredibly prolific in scoring) SUCKS.

Fix that and we're all good. People complain about defense when it's not the D-men that are the problem, rather the forwards tonight not picking up their men. (Cole, i currently hate you so much and DD, well, you just can't do anything right lately). Then when their PP was working, what can you do? We killed 4 of 6! OUR PP on the other hand sucked, came too late in the game when we had started juggling and was also somewhat unlucky.

Sucks now, but let's see how things pan out in the next two weeks. Then we'll really know where we stand. Otherwise, our franchise going forward is not in any danger. Tonight was embarrassing for sure. I don't know how I'm going to show my face at hockey in the morning. I think I might fight some of my teammates. They'd probably bite me, though.

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02-09-2013, 10:28 PM
  #350
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When you add size, you want guys that can play too. Just adding size isn't going to help much. You might be a bigger team, but you will still be losing games.

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