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Chris Kreider/JT Miller Discussion Thread (2/16: Kreider recalled to NHL)

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02-09-2013, 07:23 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
1. Artem Anisimov
2. Evgeny Grachev
3. Michael Del Zotto
4. Bobby Sanguinetti
5. Ryan McDonagh
6. Derek Stepan
7. Matt Gilroy
8. Chris Kreider
9. Michael Sauer
10. Ethan Werek

The fact that he's ahead of MDZ and McDonagh shows you all you need to know about these. Gilroy was ahead of Kreider and Sauer. Who cares how fans voted anyway? Besides at some point Kreider was our #1 prospect too.
The point I was making across is that just because they are highly ranked prospects, doesn't mean they're guaranteed to be elite players. This is the case with Anisimov who was the best prospect in the system all the way to being known as a tweener in a matter of 2 years. Same thing with Kreider and Miller, both are highly touted prospects right now, but I doubt they become anything more than another Anisimov or Dubinsky.

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02-09-2013, 07:24 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Anisimov most frequent linemates rookie season:



AKA garbage.

Imagine Kreider having to play with most frequent linemates with Avery and Lisin. lol. 10 Fire Torts threads a day.
Whatever. I like Anisimov. I hope you're right and playing more minutes and on the top line in Columbus he becomes the player we all hoped he'd be.

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02-09-2013, 07:25 PM
  #53
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You think he's better than Hank? I think saying he's the best skater is actually not a stretch at all. If he put up a couple of 40 point seasons that would be 100% true too.
Yeah, I wrote that assuming goalies being excluded.

McDonagh can put up 10 pts and he'd still be the best skater on this team....

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02-09-2013, 07:25 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
The point I was making across is that just because they are highly ranked prospects, doesn't mean they're guaranteed to be elite players. This is the case with Anisimov who was the best prospect in the system all the way to being known as a tweener in a matter of 2 years. Same thing with Kreider and Miller, both are highly touted prospects right now, but I doubt they become anything more than another Anisimov or Dubinsky.
That's true. But why not wait and see instead of putting a ceiling like that on them so early in their careers?

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02-09-2013, 07:30 PM
  #55
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That's true. But why not wait and see instead of putting a ceiling like that on them so early in their careers?
Not their ceilings, but what they're likely to become.

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02-09-2013, 10:25 PM
  #56
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Not their ceilings, but what they're likely to become.
Likely? That's a big statement. And silly because Miller and Kreider are different players than Arty and Dubi. If you mean pointwise, who cares? I'm interested in what these two thoroughbreds are going to do to help us win a cup; not just their point totals. Dubi for all his effort did alot of stupid things on the ice and was very streaky. Arty who has a ton of talent disappeared in alot of games and most of his dangles turned into turnovers. They are both good players, but these two first round picks can be special players. Of course I wouldn't be foolish enough to say that they are likely to be special.

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02-09-2013, 10:34 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Not their ceilings, but what they're likely to become.
I will say that on pure talent Artie is likely better than both. However you saw that talent very rarely. He was a ridiculously inconsistent player.

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02-09-2013, 10:43 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
I will say that on pure talent Artie is likely better than both. However you saw that talent very rarely. He was a ridiculously inconsistent player.
If true then why didnt we trade kreider instead of AA?

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02-09-2013, 10:50 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
If true then why didnt we trade kreider instead of AA?
Because AA flashed his skill relatively rarely. Also, I think Kreider may have a different skillset. More of a sniper's skillset. Not comparing either player to these guys, but it's the same way that Stamkos has a different skillset from Malkin. Though Malkin is actually better than Stamkos, due to AA's inconsistency I think Kreider can and hopefully will be the better player (at least offensively).

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02-09-2013, 11:12 PM
  #60
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Likely? That's a big statement. And silly because Miller and Kreider are different players than Arty and Dubi. If you mean pointwise, who cares? I'm interested in what these two thoroughbreds are going to do to help us win a cup; not just their point totals. Dubi for all his effort did alot of stupid things on the ice and was very streaky. Arty who has a ton of talent disappeared in alot of games and most of his dangles turned into turnovers. They are both good players, but these two first round picks can be special players. Of course I wouldn't be foolish enough to say that they are likely to be special.
Kreider and Miller are far from being thoroughbreds of this team. You only point out Anisimov and Dubinsky's negatives to their game, yet you make it sound as though Kreider and Miller will have a linear development curve. Dubinsky is a very valuable player with his ability to maintain puck possession, ability to hold onto the puck, ability to play a versatile role on lines 1-4 and his natural mean-streak that very few players have. Anisimov was also a highly skilled player who bought a unique element to the lineup with his size and skill.

At the same age, Dubinsky and Anisimov's AHL production blows the water out of Kreider and Miller's. Like I said, we should be happy if Kreider/Miller end up becoming Anisimov/Dubinsky type producers and I think expecting much higher will set up for grave disappointment.

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02-09-2013, 11:14 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
I will say that on pure talent Artie is likely better than both. However you saw that talent very rarely. He was a ridiculously inconsistent player.
He was ruined by the coaching staff. Hard not to shatter a player's confidence by playing him with plugs to start his career.

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02-09-2013, 11:18 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
Because AA flashed his skill relatively rarely. Also, I think Kreider may have a different skillset. More of a sniper's skillset. Not comparing either player to these guys, but it's the same way that Stamkos has a different skillset from Malkin. Though Malkin is actually better than Stamkos, due to AA's inconsistency I think Kreider can and hopefully will be the better player (at least offensively).
Probably this. The Rangers think Kreider will be a more solid fit down the road at 2LW than Anisimov or Dubinsky. I don't disagree.

Also AA was dealt because his contract is running out and Sather already used his bridge contract on him. He'll rightfully demand 4m+, which isn't what we can afford to have given him.

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02-09-2013, 11:27 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Kreider and Miller are far from being thoroughbreds of this team. You only point out Anisimov and Dubinsky's negatives to their game, yet you make it sound as though Kreider and Miller will have a linear development curve. Dubinsky is a very valuable player with his ability to maintain puck possession, ability to hold onto the puck, ability to play a versatile role on lines 1-4 and his natural mean-streak that very few players have. Anisimov was also a highly skilled player who bought a unique element to the lineup with his size and skill.

At the same age, Dubinsky and Anisimov's AHL production blows the water out of Kreider and Miller's. Like I said, we should be happy if Kreider/Miller end up becoming Anisimov/Dubinsky type producers and I think expecting much higher will set up for grave disappointment.
I appreciated both guys when they were here. But let's be honest no one frustrated us with inconsistency more than those two. Dubi dangled but his offensive instincts were terrible. The strength of his game is skating, PK and overall effort. Ani has a ton of talent but just didn't put it together. Don't know why. Maybe both guys had poor hockey IQ; don't know. ]

Miller and Kreider are thoroughbreds. they are young, eager, fast and talented. If they bring a more consistent effort than the two that are gone they will surpass them as Rangers in every way possible. Points are just one way to judge.

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02-09-2013, 11:38 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
I appreciated both guys when they were here. But let's be honest no one frustrated us with inconsistency more than those two. Dubi dangled but his offensive instincts were terrible. The strength of his game is skating, PK and overall effort. Ani has a ton of talent but just didn't put it together. Don't know why. Maybe both guys had poor hockey IQ; don't know. ]
They were frustrating at times, but outside of Lundqvist, which player isn't? I remember Fedor Tyutin being incredibly frustrating to watch, but we could've used him instead of the highly touted, skilled Zherdev the past few years. I think people hinge too much on a former player's inconsistencies that anything new will automatically be better.

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Miller and Kreider are thoroughbreds. they are young, eager, fast and talented. If they bring a more consistent effort than the two that are gone they will surpass them as Rangers in every way possible. Points are just one way to judge.
They aren't thoroughbreds of this roster and I doubt they will be. Our roster runs through our defense and goaltending.

And exactly, points aren't everything either. Dubinsky and Anisimov are far better defensive players than Kreider or Miller.

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02-09-2013, 11:42 PM
  #65
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They were frustrating at times, but outside of Lundqvist, which player isn't? I remember Fedor Tyutin being incredibly frustrating to watch, but we could've used him instead of the highly touted, skilled Zherdev the past few years. I think people hinge too much on a former player's inconsistencies that anything new will automatically be better.



They aren't thoroughbreds of this roster and I doubt they will be. Our roster runs through our defense and goaltending.

And exactly, points aren't everything either. Dubinsky and Anisimov are far better defensive players than Kreider or Miller.
Miller is going to be a very good defensive player. His strength along the boards and puck possession skills are way ahead of his years. Kreider is another story. I'm not sure he'll every be that good defensively but with his speed and shot he could score 40 some day.

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02-09-2013, 11:50 PM
  #66
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Miller is going to be a very good defensive player. His strength along the boards and puck possession skills are way ahead of his years. Kreider is another story. I'm not sure he'll every be that good defensively but with his speed and shot he could score 40 some day.

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02-09-2013, 11:51 PM
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You don't think so? No chance? Why?

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02-09-2013, 11:53 PM
  #68
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You don't think so? No chance? Why?
It's very rare to score 40g in this league. I don't think Kreider is nearly as skilled enough to get to that level.

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02-09-2013, 11:53 PM
  #69
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It's not likely, but I doubt many people thought Kesler, Parise, and probably Neal would ever score 40. No need for the condescending video.

Edit: Who would have thought Clarkson would be a 2 time 30 goal scorer. Cally would probably have been too if not for injuries. He was supposed to be a 3rd line grinder.

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02-10-2013, 12:06 AM
  #70
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It's not likely, but I doubt many people thought Kesler, Parise, and probably Neal would ever score 40. No need for the condescending video.

Edit: Who would have thought Clarkson would be a 2 time 30 goal scorer. Cally would probably have been too if not for injuries. He was supposed to be a 3rd line grinder.
Callahan had 50g in Jrs.

Clarkson's been shooting at an unsustainable rate for the past 90 or so games.

Parise was a big time producer at every level. With Shattucks St. Mary, he literally tore that place up to shreds. He became a great point producer/goal scorer from his first year in College as a freshman.

Kesler's an anomaly. Very odd player growth. He literally went from 3rd-4th line grinder in one season to solid offensive centerman in a span of a few months. His 40g season was where he got a lot of them on the PP with the Sedins, although he is an excellent PP player to his credit.

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02-10-2013, 12:08 AM
  #71
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Callahan had 50g in Jrs.

Clarkson's been shooting at an unsustainable rate for the past 90 or so games.

Parise was a big time producer at every level. With Shattucks St. Mary, he literally tore that place up to shreds. He became a great point producer/goal scorer from his first year in College as a freshman.

Kesler's an anomaly. Very odd player growth. He literally went from 3rd-4th line grinder in one season to solid offensive centerman in a span of a few months. His 40g season was where he got a lot of them on the PP with the Sedins, although he is an excellent PP player to his credit.
No one said that Kreider will be a perennial 40 goal scorer. Why can't he shoot an unsustainable pace or be an anomaly one year?

Also, was Parise really supposed to be a 45 goal scorer? Or more of a 30 goal scorer that had a great all around game? I always thought it was the latter.

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02-10-2013, 12:13 AM
  #72
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I'm going to say that CK won't ever score 40 because he is a New York Ranger and there must be some kind of snake venom in the stitching of the jersey because no one scores 40 on this ****ing team. Gaborik and Jagr should be given statues.

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02-10-2013, 12:17 AM
  #73
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miller and kreider have good chemistry. cally makes guys around him skate and check. great combo on paper and in play. kreider seems a little lazy sometimes. miller's playmaking and cally's perseverance force kreider to use his jets. great energy line, big bodies, and a scoring touch.

if they continue to play well, our top 9 looks great


nash/stepan/gaborik (not set lines, just roster)
hagelin/richards/pyatt (not set lines just roster)
kreider/miller/callahan

and our bottom 3 doesn't look bad in a minimal minute role either:
boyle(asham)/halpern/powe

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02-10-2013, 12:21 AM
  #74
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miller and kreider have good chemistry. cally makes guys around him skate and check. great combo on paper and in play. kreider seems a little lazy sometimes. miller's playmaking and cally's perseverance force kreider to use his jets. great energy line, big bodies, and a scoring touch.

if they continue to play well, our top 9 looks great


nash/stepan/gaborik (not set lines, just roster)
hagelin/richards/pyatt (not set lines just roster)
kreider/miller/callahan

and our bottom 3 doesn't look bad in a minimal minute role either:
boyle(asham)/halpern/powe
I'd prefer not to have our 2 best wingers on the same line and 2 guys like Hagelin and Pyatt on the 2nd line. That's stacking the first line again. I don't think Richards is good enough to have a consistently producing line with Hagelin and Pyatt. A little more balance would be splitting up Nash and Gabori and having one play with Richards and one with Stepan.

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02-10-2013, 12:26 AM
  #75
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There are anomalies like Cheechoo and Graves even scored 50 but honestly, its not the kind of thing you predict. If something magical like that happens it just sort of does. I could say Stepan has a shot in hell of a 40 goal season, doesn't mean I'm going to try to call it beforehand.

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