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The Flyers are done "spending".

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Old
07-06-2006, 07:39 AM
  #1
Art Vandelay
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The Flyers are done "spending".

Some big-name free agents might be left looking for work in the NHL today, but as far as the Flyers are concerned, they should forget about Philadelphia.


The Flyers are done spending.


With the signing of Mark Cullen to a 1-year deal for the league minimum of $450,000 yesterday afternoon, the Flyers have added all the new players they intend to add for now and are moving now to sign the unsigned players still on their roster, according to Flyers general manager Bob Clarke.

...


http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/spo...y/14975296.htm


Also Niitty got 1mil, Cullen got 450k.


Last edited by Art Vandelay: 07-06-2006 at 07:45 AM.
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Old
07-06-2006, 07:43 AM
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Old
07-06-2006, 07:50 AM
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I'm right there with ya gkj, it's a joke.

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07-06-2006, 07:55 AM
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Art Vandelay
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More news:

Kelly (Pitkanen's agent) said he and the team remained far apart in efforts to re-sign defenseman Joni Pitkanen. "We've gotten nowhere," he said.

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/spo...y/14973904.htm


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07-06-2006, 08:02 AM
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Dig Out Your Soul
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Originally Posted by Lion of the North View Post
More news:

Kelly (Pitkanen's agent) said he and the team remained far apart in efforts to re-sign defenseman Joni Pitkanen. "We've gotten nowhere," he said.

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/spo...y/14973904.htm

Just perfect.

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07-06-2006, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Lion of the North View Post
More news:

Kelly (Pitkanen's agent) said he and the team remained far apart in efforts to re-sign defenseman Joni Pitkanen. "We've gotten nowhere," he said.

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/spo...y/14973904.htm

there's the reality check. you don't go running around signing big UFA contracts, or any for that matter, when two of our three most important players still need to get signed to deals.

sux, but welcome to the new world.

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07-06-2006, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
there's the reality check. you don't go running around signing big UFA contracts, or any for that matter, when two of our three most important players still need to get signed to deals.

sux, but welcome to the new world.
You pluralized 'big UFA contracts.' It's not like we wanted everyone on the market. We wanted guys who would improve this team. Now we're going to be stuck with Niko Dimitrakos on the 2nd line again.

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07-06-2006, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
there's the reality check. you don't go running around signing big UFA contracts, or any for that matter, when two of our three most important players still need to get signed to deals.

sux, but welcome to the new world.
Could be alot worse .. 12 Sabres including Briere are headed to arbitration. He's right also, you can't sign the big UFAs when you need to sign your important RFAs to new deals. The disturbing part is with all the UFA signings our RFAs think they are getting UFA money. Gagne's agent is probably telling him he's comparable to Elias and Pitkanen's agent is telling him he's just as good as Chara and they all deserve the same money. I have no problem with players getting fair compensation but the lockout proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that the players have no concept of money other than as a scoreboard. Mr. "I can't feed my family on less than $4mill/yr" McCabe will be able to afford Denny's once a week this year with his $5.75mil/yr salary for instance.

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07-06-2006, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
You pluralized 'big UFA contracts.' It's not like we wanted everyone on the market. We wanted guys who would improve this team. Now we're going to be stuck with Niko Dimitrakos on the 2nd line again.
i was... however, we had 6 Million to spend on top of assumed contracts for Gagne, Pitkanen, Umberger, and Nitty. Nitty, thus far, is the only one who has come to contract as the team expected. Gagne and Pitkanen will, probably, do better than Clarke budgeted for them... if you signed one of those 5 Million dollar dmen we would have been flush with the salary cap before the season even started... if not over the cap and forced to deal away someone from a position of weakness.

until he had Gagne and Pitkanen tied up, it would have been completely irresponsible on Clarke's part to sign any significant UFA to a contract... it would have also exposed us to someone forcing our hand with an RFA offer sheet that we couldn't match w/out going over the cap.

one UFA that would significantly help this team this year would have handcuffed us with regard to our own players... we're fine. this team has plenty of tradeable players going into the year that will bring back decent return. Handzus in particular... there is also the spector of Primeau having another concussion and us then using that cap space to bring a player in. personally, i'd rather have 3-4 Million under the cap to use at the midpoint of the season when Forsberg comes back, then be flush with the cap when he returns.

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07-06-2006, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Flyers_01 View Post
Could be alot worse .. 12 Sabres including Briere are headed to arbitration. He's right also, you can't sign the big UFAs when you need to sign your important RFAs to new deals. The disturbing part is with all the UFA signings our RFAs think they are getting UFA money. Gagne's agent is probably telling him he's comparable to Elias and Pitkanen's agent is telling him he's just as good as Chara and they all deserve the same money. I have no problem with players getting fair compensation but the lockout proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that the players have no concept of money other than as a scoreboard. Mr. "I can't feed my family on less than $4mill/yr" McCabe will be able to afford Denny's once a week this year with his $5.75mil/yr salary for instance.
well... if Gagne and the Flyers are negotiating a multi-year deal they are essentially doing UFA negotiations. if that falls apart they will sign a 1-year RFA deal and go from there. if you sign RFAs to deals that eat into their UFA years they have every right to negotiate from the position that they deserve "UFA" money if you will... you're buying them off of the UFA market in advance.

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07-06-2006, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
You pluralized 'big UFA contracts.' It's not like we wanted everyone on the market. We wanted guys who would improve this team. Now we're going to be stuck with Niko Dimitrakos on the 2nd line again.
I think he was refering to Hatcher and Rathje, i could be wrong.

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07-06-2006, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
You pluralized 'big UFA contracts.' It's not like we wanted everyone on the market. We wanted guys who would improve this team. Now we're going to be stuck with Niko Dimitrakos on the 2nd line again.
Wait until next year when all the people that signed players this year are up against their budget or cap. Keep in mind it was mostly the bottom feeder teams that spent the big bucks because they've been playing on the cheap. I'd hazard a guess that Minnesota added $15mill in payroll over last year. When you are fielding an AHL team you have the cap room. Detroit isn't signing people, Colorado is dumping people also. What are we worried about Toronto with it's $20 million dollar blue line and popgun offense, or the Sabres who currently have 12 people in arbitration which most likely means a good UFA crop of sabres players next year? How about the Devils who will have to go over the cap to sign their current players and who didn't offer Gomez a longterm contract and hence he's going to arbitration.

I think Gagne and Pitkanen are being more difficult to sign due to the explosion in the UFA market by the bottom feeders and Clarke is wisely (yes i say wisely) not spending money until he knows how much money he has to spend. Also, I would bet there will be some sort of trade either before or during the season that will hopefully work out better than acquiring nedved (speaking of a contract that'll be gone next year).

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07-06-2006, 08:33 AM
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Wait until next year

There has to be a time where that isn't an option

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07-06-2006, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
well... if Gagne and the Flyers are negotiating a multi-year deal they are essentially doing UFA negotiations. if that falls apart they will sign a 1-year RFA deal and go from there. if you sign RFAs to deals that eat into their UFA years they have every right to negotiate from the position that they deserve "UFA" money if you will... you're buying them off of the UFA market in advance.
I can see that to a point but there's 2 facts I don't think we are accounting for. First off this money in hand vs money he may get a year from now and second will he be as productive next year? Say Gagne's agent says you have a future 50 goal scorer here who year in year out will score 50 goals and we want to be paid like that. Clarke believing differently will point out how poorly Gagne did without Forsberg. Gagne on the other hand probably doesn't care about any of that .. all he's going to care about is his agent promised him $4.5mill/yr -$5mill/yr and if he can't get that then the agent's fired. So the agent won't back down because he can't and Clarke isn't going to open up the wallet just to make the agent look good.

Personally, I'd like to see more incentive laden contracts. Let the players put up or shutup. How about Gagne signs for $3.5mill/yr + $1mill/yr incentive if he equals or betters his totals from this year. If he does he'll be worth the money if not I still think he's worth $3.5mill/yr and I'd think Clarke could safely count on not paying that extra mill.

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07-06-2006, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Flyers_01 View Post
Personally, I'd like to see more incentive laden contracts. Let the players put up or shutup. How about Gagne signs for $3.5mill/yr + $1mill/yr incentive if he equals or betters his totals from this year. If he does he'll be worth the money if not I still think he's worth $3.5mill/yr and I'd think Clarke could safely count on not paying that extra mill.
Be careful what you wish for. Check this:

Quote:
Thrashers among teams over salary cap

By JOHN MANASSO
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 06/30/06

Bill Daly did not identified the teams during a briefing last Saturday at the NHL draft but the Thrashers were one of two teams to spend over the limit.

In their case, it was because of the $1.75 million performance bonus paid to winger Peter Bondra at season's end that will count against the Thrashers' cap in the neighborhood of about $1 million towards next season's limit

[snip]

Having gone through one season with a player — Bondra — having bonuses on his contract, Waddell said it's not something he is eager to do again; namely with Scott Mellanby. Under the new CBA, the only players eligible for bonuses are players on entry-level contracts, players who are 35 and older (like Mellanby) and players who have played 400 games or more and have missed 100 days because of injury the previous season (but only if they sign a one-year contract).

The problem with offering bonuses is that they all count against a team's salary cap until it is impossible for the player to fulfill them. Thus, Bondra's $2.9 million in possible bonuses — all of which involved the team's ability to make the playoffs — all counted against the cap until the final day of the season when the team was eliminated from the playoffs.

Thus, even though $1.15 million of those bonuses went unpaid, they affected Waddell's ability to make a move at times during the season.

"It's something we prefer to stay away from now that we've been through it," Waddell said.

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07-06-2006, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Flyers_01 View Post
Personally, I'd like to see more incentive laden contracts. Let the players put up or shutup. How about Gagne signs for $3.5mill/yr + $1mill/yr incentive if he equals or betters his totals from this year. If he does he'll be worth the money if not I still think he's worth $3.5mill/yr and I'd think Clarke could safely count on not paying that extra mill.

incentives can only be used in certain cases... which are related to age and injuries. Gagne doesn't qualify... also, as the post above notes, you don't want to tie yourself to unknown cash. escalators and whatnot in contracts are deadly when trying to figure out a strategy for approaching the financial situation of the club.

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07-06-2006, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
incentives can only be used in certain cases... which are related to age and injuries. Gagne doesn't qualify... also, as the post above notes, you don't want to tie yourself to unknown cash. escalators and whatnot in contracts are deadly when trying to figure out a strategy for approaching the financial situation of the club.
To bad he doesn't qualify but I don't see the problem with the incentives. Either sign him to $4.5 or an incentive contract that could equal $4.5. I don't really understand Waddell's complaint. If they'd have made the playoffs he'd have paid the bonus, the incentive was a compromise between what Bondra thought he was worth and what Waddell thought he was worth, the alternative was to pay Bondra the bonus as part of the base contract which means Waddell would've gained $0 cap room if he wanted Bondra. If he's *****ing because he thinks he could've signed someone to help make the playoffs with that money then he shouldn't have signed Bondra at all because Bondra wouldn't have signed for the base contract he was paid, the incentive was a compromise. I'd rather the team budget $4.5 mill for a player that has to earn it and not pay the incentive rather than overpay a player for $4.5 mill/yr just so it simplifies the math for the GMs.

The difference between $3.5 + $1mill in incentive not paid and $4.5 mill is $1 million REAL CASH in the owners pockets the cap hit is the same. If you don't think he isn't worth the total value of the contract if he hits incentives .. don't sign him.

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07-06-2006, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Flyers_01 View Post
The difference between $3.5 + $1mill in incentive not paid and $4.5 mill is $1 million REAL CASH in the owners pockets the cap hit is the same. If you don't think he isn't worth the total value of the contract if he hits incentives .. don't sign him.
'cept the incentive is a problem when trying to pay other players against the salary cap. we should stay away from them and just deal with straight contracts which are completely predictable in their cap standing.

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