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D Ryan Murphy - Kitchener Rangers, OHL (2011, 12th overall, Carolina)

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Old
02-08-2013, 04:38 PM
  #951
newfy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faidh ar Rud Eigin View Post
You said everything involved with saying a player is worse besides saying it. You said he regressed. Now you're backing off that. I also didn't know almost PPG hockey (And it would be higher if Kitchener had a better offense, because Kitchener's offense was awful untill the trades) is "offense not translating to junior hockey". Care to explain that?

You come back to this ******* arguement of "offensive defensemen need to produce". You're basis of this seems to be above PPG (Which Murphy was last season despite a horrible start and a concussion, and likely will be at the end of this season despite a horrible offense for the first 3 months of the season (He missed the fourth month). Tell me why Pietrangelo (A guy who most people think can put up between 50 and 60 points in an NHL season) didn't "produce" in junior but can be that great defensemen offensively. You conviently ignored this last time I challenged this baseless claim and instead decided to say something about Green's position in scoring despite him not producing over the benchmark you seem to be alluding to.

In what world did those posts show I was lying The one wasn't even talking about Murphy, it was about Corrado, and the other one means that all Kitchener fans think Murphy is horrible and sucks offensively? Think about what you say before you write it, because that's the most ridiculous thing you just said.

It seems like you hate Murphy, and I can't understand why. You can be a homer on Sproul all you want without attacking the top defensemen prospect in the OHL right now.
Ok if you honestly think offensive dmen who are pretty mediocre at best defensively needing to put up points is a ******** argument than I'm done here. Guys can be flashy and skate fast but it does nothing to help a team in the end if it doesnt translate to the score sheet.

His ability to translate offense to the score sheet has steadily decreased, hes not very good defensively, hes small and plain and simple isnt living up to his draft hype. You can make all the excuses you want for him but NHL teams dont listen to excuses and I think its actually kind of pathetic that such a highly rated prospect needs this many excuses made for him. I dont hate Murphy and I definitely dont hate Murphy because I like Sproul. What I hate is seeing you pimp him out to be this stud dman, act like youre the only one who knows anything about him and anyone else whose seen him play is wrong.

As for those posts, you were lying. You said my opinion goes against those of Kitchener Ranger fans and that it seems like I dont even watch him but then theres 2 posts showing a fan and a team writer agree with me and that was without looking all that closely. The second post was about Corrado, but it was in the context of you saying how crappy the PP is out there and theres no movement without Murphy. The team writer disagrees with what you said about Murphy.

I guess the OHL isnt doing all that hot if Murphy is the top prospect, but I'm not sure everyone would agree with that anymore either.

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02-08-2013, 04:40 PM
  #952
Faidh ar Rud Eigin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ottawah View Post
Here is how hockeys future has described him ion jnauary

" His play at the OHL level has picked up slightly, with him managing two assists in his past four games, but remains far off from the level he is expected to play at."

He has dropped substantially on their prospect rating in the last year.
You're quoting the prospect ratings that were almost universally called garbage when they were posted.

That quote comes from early January, when he just came back and played his first 2 games. I don't know why they would say "His past four games" when the first two of those 4 games were in early December. He's had 12 points in the 10 games coming back from the World Juniors. His offensive production is coming up when, as expected, Kitchener's offense begins to pick up. It's been getting steam lately and it can be expected to continue to pick up. His game has been fine, if Kitchener's offense was scoring good all year he'd be PPG.

People understand if you don't watch the CHL that defensemen scoring depends on team scoring much more than forwards do. That's why Pietrangelo never put up gawdy numbers.

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02-08-2013, 04:51 PM
  #953
Faidh ar Rud Eigin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newfy View Post
Ok if you honestly think offensive dmen who are pretty mediocre at best defensively needing to put up points is a ******** argument than I'm done here. Guys can be flashy and skate fast but it does nothing to help a team in the end if it doesnt translate to the score sheet.

His ability to translate offense to the score sheet has steadily decreased, hes not very good defensively, hes small and plain and simple isnt living up to his draft hype. You can make all the excuses you want for him but NHL teams dont listen to excuses and I think its actually kind of pathetic that such a highly rated prospect needs this many excuses made for him. I dont hate Murphy and I definitely dont hate Murphy because I like Sproul. What I hate is seeing you pimp him out to be this stud dman, act like youre the only one who knows anything about him and anyone else whose seen him play is wrong.

As for those posts, you were lying. You said my opinion goes against those of Kitchener Ranger fans and that it seems like I dont even watch him but then theres 2 posts showing a fan and a team writer agree with me and that was without looking all that closely. The second post was about Corrado, but it was in the context of you saying how crappy the PP is out there and theres no movement without Murphy. The team writer disagrees with what you said about Murphy.

I guess the OHL isnt doing all that hot if Murphy is the top prospect, but I'm not sure everyone would agree with that anymore either.
Murphy is great defensively in the OHL now, better than the guy you've been pumping tires for.

Kitchener scoring has gone DOWN and Murphy's ability to translate offense has regressed. Why the hell do you keep replying to me, thinking your refuting my points but in actuallity you're ignoring them and restating the exact same arguement you posted. His offensive ability is NOT regressing. After recovering was injury last season he was the best defensemen in the OHL in the new year. This season Kitchener was scoring more than a goal less per game and obviously Murph'ys production went down despite a similar point percentage to what he did before.

You completely failed to justify how I was lying. That post you pulled from the Colorado fan was NOT talking about Murphy. This is a perfect example of me talking about your inability to guage context. That was about Corrado, not Murphy. Murphy wasn't playing in that game. So it has absolutely no bearing. Josh Brown wasn't talking about Murphy, he was talking about how he liked more movement on the playplay in contrast to what was happening before, when guys like Iafrate and McEneny were running the powerplay with Puempel, Faksa, Murphy and Rieder all out.

Your opinion does go against Rangers fans. You posted one comment from a Rangers fan who made the comment about the end of the game in one game, and another from a Canucks fan talking about a completely unrelated subject.

You're grasping at straws and are deciding to say I'm "lying" with no good reason. I'll sum up your arguement.

1) Your lying!!!
2) I say this becuz the rangers writer likes corrado's movement on the powerplay and this one rangers fan said something negative about murphy in this one post
3) therefore you are lying and all rangers fans agree with me that murphy has regressed and isn't a good player and i'm right ur wrong because your lying

Oh and by the way, you again failed to address why Pietrangelo can be a great defensemen offensively yet not "produce" in the OHL. Care to explain that? That's the third time you've ignored that. All I can say is if you ignore it again you're admitting that you're arguement that defensemen to be good offensively must score more than they did the last year in the CHL is an awful arguement.

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02-08-2013, 05:25 PM
  #954
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What are the chances that Faidh ar Rud Eigin is either a close relative of Ryan Murphy or Ryan Murphy himself?

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02-08-2013, 06:08 PM
  #955
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newfy View Post
Not only on stats, I've watched him play plenty and I dont like his play for his draft position. Your context is what people who arent biased to him would consider excuses. Yeah the concussion is bad but even with a bad team around him for how highly rated the guy he should be putting up more production than he is.

Youre telling me I have no context or viewings, yet you were the one who was sure he would be great at the world juniors because of how improved his offense and defensive play are and he was brutal in both areas and especially because his elite skating would be awesome on the big ice. I'm not sure your scouting eye is that great with all your viewings, or its a little biased toward him.

There are still about 6 or so D taken after him in that draft that are already looking like much better prospects, that means him going that high isnt a great pick.

As for Mike Green, he progressively had large increases in his production every year in junior and finished top 20 in WHL scoring. Murphys barely in the top 15 dmen in the OHL this year. I didnt see Green play though in Saskatoon so I dont know all the circumstance but from a production stand point what he did is looking better than Murphy. Not a good comparison, his production as an offensive dman increased steadily through junior, like it should for any developing prospect
Murphy is not the only Ranger to have his stats drop off substantially. Rieder is way off pace from last year yet he is actually playing very well.

The Rangers are on pace to score 40 fewer goals this year and to give up roughly 40 fewer goals. The whole team pays more attention to the defensive side of the game.

Murphy's defensive game has improved substantially. He can still take over a game with his skill but he does so less often.

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02-08-2013, 08:33 PM
  #956
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faidh ar Rud Eigin View Post
Oh and by the way, you again failed to address why Pietrangelo can be a great defensemen offensively yet not "produce" in the OHL. Care to explain that? That's the third time you've ignored that. All I can say is if you ignore it again you're admitting that you're arguement that defensemen to be good offensively must score more than they did the last year in the CHL is an awful arguement.
Pietrangelo was .03 away from having the best point per game on his team in his first post draft year. The next year which would've been his last junior year like Murphy is on right now He had 3 more goals and only 5 less points then Murphy does now except Petro played 16 less games.

Murphy cant produce like Pietrangelo and AP's defensive game and size are just as valuable as his offense. He would be a solid dman even without the offense. Murphy is offense or bust

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02-08-2013, 08:44 PM
  #957
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newfy View Post
Pietrangelo was .03 away from having the best point per game on his team in his first post draft year. The next year which would've been his last junior year like Murphy is on right now He had 3 more goals and only 5 less points then Murphy does now except Petro played 16 less games.

Murphy cant produce like Pietrangelo and AP's defensive game and size are just as valuable as his offense. He would be a solid dman even without the offense. Murphy is offense or bust
His offense didn't progress using your logic. He was PPG but only played 25 games. He had virtually the same offensive production his entire CHL career.

You're last paragraph is full of irrelevant claims and unsubstantiated claims. "Murphy can't produce like Pietrangelo". Says who? If you're basing this on the OHL, then you'd be wrong, and even with your stats based arguement you could see how wrong that is. If you're basing this on the NHL, says who? You don't know what's going to happen. Defense here is irrelevant, you said defensemen who are good offensive must produce and progress in junior. Pietrangelo did not progress, but he doesn't count because it doesn't fit your arguement?

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02-08-2013, 09:07 PM
  #958
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Originally Posted by Faidh ar Rud Eigin View Post
His offense didn't progress using your logic. He was PPG but only played 25 games. He had virtually the same offensive production his entire CHL career.

You're last paragraph is full of irrelevant claims and unsubstantiated claims. "Murphy can't produce like Pietrangelo". Says who? If you're basing this on the OHL, then you'd be wrong, and even with your stats based arguement you could see how wrong that is. If you're basing this on the NHL, says who? You don't know what's going to happen. Defense here is irrelevant, you said defensemen who are good offensive must produce and progress in junior. Pietrangelo did not progress, but he doesn't count because it doesn't fit your arguement?
AP did progress statistically. He stayed pretty steady but then in his final season took a huge step. Murphy cant produce like AP did in the OHL is what I mean. As you said, he changed his style of game offensively. Ever since that he hasnt really produced all that much, and its been going down more. He did it to focus on a defensive game that hasnt became anything spectacular, while AP's was readyf or the NHL including his defensive game

AP almost doubled his goal total from his first to second year, the next season he was hurt but kept up relatively consistent production (I already gave Murphy credit there, injuries will hurt your offense), and then the year after that he was putting up much bigger numbers. He also had an dominant world junior

Compare that to Murphy for a second and see how well it fits your argument.

Murphy had an awesome draft year, 26 goals 79 points. Then sees his goal total fall all the way to 11 the next season putting up just above a point per game and now this year he has a whopping 6 goals so far, well under a point per game and an extremely underwhelming world junior.

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02-08-2013, 09:17 PM
  #959
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newfy View Post
AP did progress statistically. He stayed pretty steady but then in his final season took a huge step. Murphy cant produce like AP did in the OHL is what I mean. As you said, he changed his style of game offensively. Ever since that he hasnt really produced all that much, and its been going down more. He did it to focus on a defensive game that hasnt became anything spectacular, while AP's was readyf or the NHL including his defensive game

AP almost doubled his goal total from his first to second year, the next season he was hurt but kept up relatively consistent production (I already gave Murphy credit there, injuries will hurt your offense), and then the year after that he was putting up much bigger numbers. He also had an dominant world junior

Compare that to Murphy for a second and see how well it fits your argument.

Murphy had an awesome draft year, 26 goals 79 points. Then sees his goal total fall all the way to 11 the next season putting up just above a point per game and now this year he has a whopping 6 goals so far, well under a point per game and an extremely underwhelming world junior.
A huge step? He played 25 games. Not even half the season. If a player plays 5 games and scores 10 points, is that huge progression?

I also didn't know 36 points in 42 games was "well under PPG".

Pietrangelo didn't progress offensively statistically but became a much better player despite the lack of statistical advancement. Murphy is the same way, but you keep denying it.

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02-08-2013, 10:30 PM
  #960
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Originally Posted by Faidh ar Rud Eigin View Post
Pietrangelo didn't progress offensively statistically but became a much better player despite the lack of statistical advancement. Murphy is the same way, but you keep denying it.
This is the last thing I'm going to post in this thread because its like talking to a brick wall but the situations are different. Pietrangelo showed at least a little bit of advancement and then in his 4th year he was putting up over a point per game. 5 games and 25 games is a little different. Peitro showed some progress especially in his last year. Murphys points have taken a hit, especially his goal scoring. His production has regressed each year steadily while AP's didnt increase largely, his goal scoring increased and his last year he was producing a lot. One guy worked on his defensive part of the game (got it to an elite level) and at least maintained his offense (I would say it increased, I value goals more because theyre less team dependent). Another worked on his defensive game, which isnt very good and sacrificed A LOT of his offense in doing so, and the sad part is his offense was the only thing that got him drafted so highly

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02-09-2013, 12:40 AM
  #961
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I'm not sold on Murphy definitely making a big impact at the next level and I am a Ranger fan that has seen him live at least 10 times and countless times on tv. That said, I find that there are too many stat hounds in this thread. People seem to think that the level of difficulty for putting up points is even across every team and seem to ignore that seemingly countless variables at play that can cause one player on one team to put up points and another similar player on a different team to not be as statistically productive.

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02-09-2013, 06:08 PM
  #962
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How do you think Murphy will do in the AHL next year? Not sure Carolina will keep him up after the 9 games. Carolina has Faulk who is very similar to Murphy doing well.

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02-09-2013, 06:29 PM
  #963
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james30 View Post
How do you think Murphy will do in the AHL next year? Not sure Carolina will keep him up after the 9 games. Carolina has Faulk who is very similar to Murphy doing well.
Faulk and Murphy are nothing alike...

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02-09-2013, 06:30 PM
  #964
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Maybe I haven't watched Faulk enough...how are they different?

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02-10-2013, 12:10 AM
  #965
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Maybe I haven't watched Faulk enough...how are they different?
I wouldn't say they're nothing alike, but they aren't very similar either. Murphy should be better at passing and rushing the puck while Faulk has a better shot, is better positionally, more physical, etc.

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02-10-2013, 12:12 AM
  #966
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The only NHL guys who are comparables for Murphy play right wing.

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02-23-2013, 11:31 PM
  #967
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First NHL game, Murphy played 23 minutes.

Tonight, in his second game, he played over 25.

Consensus opinion is that he looked very good for his age and situation (coming in mid-stream on emergency recall with no training camp, etc.). His offensive game looked outstanding and his defense was passable.

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02-24-2013, 03:37 AM
  #968
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
First NHL game, Murphy played 23 minutes.

Tonight, in his second game, he played over 25.

Consensus opinion is that he looked very good for his age and situation (coming in mid-stream on emergency recall with no training camp, etc.). His offensive game looked outstanding and his defense was passable.
I don't liked his play last night, but as a Tampa fan I wasn't too worried . I think he had some problems with our Offense, but he looked really good in the O-Zone.

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02-24-2013, 07:53 AM
  #969
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I don't liked his play last night, but as a Tampa fan I wasn't too worried . I think he had some problems with our Offense, but he looked really good in the O-Zone.
He had a couple of mistakes, but that was in the context of playing almost half a game against the highest scoring team in the NHL...

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02-24-2013, 10:34 AM
  #970
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Yeah, didn't look out of place last night. Kid has nice shot.

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02-24-2013, 11:57 AM
  #971
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Great to hear. I hope he survives the physicality and rigors of the NHL.

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02-24-2013, 12:49 PM
  #972
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Originally Posted by Guru Meditation View Post
The only NHL guys who are comparables for Murphy play right wing.
This.
He's horrible defensivly. If hes going to play in the Show regularly he has to get WAAAY better.

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02-24-2013, 02:32 PM
  #973
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This.
He's horrible defensivly. If hes going to play in the Show regularly he has to get WAAAY better.
No he's not. The people that say this are always the ones that will eventually admit under pressure they don't watch them and their opinions come from hearsay.

Sproul, the guy who's getting all the hype, is half the defensive player Murphy is. Murphy just stepped onto an NHL team, played top pairing minutes and didn't look out of place.

He's absolutely not horrible defensively. He never has been.

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02-24-2013, 02:40 PM
  #974
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Originally Posted by Billybaroo View Post
This.
He's horrible defensivly. If hes going to play in the Show regularly he has to get WAAAY better.
Funny, I get that there's this great hate-on for him among many, but he hasn't looked bad at all in the two games he's gotten while Pitkanen, Gleason, and McBain are out. Considering he's a 19 year old up in an emergency capacity it's pretty telling that Muller is already preferring him out there over Sanguinetti and Jordan.

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02-24-2013, 04:53 PM
  #975
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Funny, I get that there's this great hate-on for him among many, but he hasn't looked bad at all in the two games he's gotten while Pitkanen, Gleason, and McBain are out. Considering he's a 19 year old up in an emergency capacity it's pretty telling that Muller is already preferring him out there over Sanguinetti and Jordan.
Well thats good I guess. Anytime Ive seen him play hes about as bad as can be defensivly.

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