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Has Gagner proven to you to be a legit 2C?

View Poll Results: Is Gagner a legit 2C
Yes proven 2C keep him 184 67.40%
Yes proven 2C trade him 44 16.12%
No not a proven 2C 45 16.48%
Voters: 273. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-10-2013, 12:58 AM
  #151
Agent Zero
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
I'm still intrigued by Cody Hodgson, he has more size and more of the tools I think we need. I'd do a Hemsky + Gagner for Hodgson + Stafford swap.

Nothing against Sam, I would just feel more comfortable with a legit 6 footer as our 2nd line C given all our other size issues.
Hodgson would be a good fit but not at that price. Hemsky has been one of our best players. Not sure what posters love affair is with Drew Stafford. Dude hasn't put up 60 points yet.

I think it would be wise to extend Gagner on a long term deal this offseason. I'm thinking 4+ years. We've put some much time and effort in developing; I'd hate to see him become a UFA in 2 years. Personally I do not think he's fit for the Oilers long term but he could be used in a trade to bring something we requirein the future.


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Old
02-10-2013, 01:02 AM
  #152
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This offseason may get real interesting if Perry and Getzalf hit the market. Question is which player would you go after?

Getzalf although he is big, he doesn't play big and nasty on a consistent basis. He has great vision but his work ethic comes into question. I'd personally like to see Hall make the transition to center and have us sign Corey Perry. A physical player who gives us much needed size in our top 6 and would be presence in front of the net.

Perry-RNH-Hemsky
Hartski-Hall-Eberle
Paajarvi-Horcoff-Yakupov
Eager-Belanger-Jones

- top two lines have some size and toughness. Would be able to cycle the puck.
- As Yakupov matures he switches with Hemsky.

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02-10-2013, 01:06 AM
  #153
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He looked quite sluggish today but was still decent on the pk Imo, but I do get a chuckle at the unwarranted hate this guy gets on the Oiler board, many teams would take Gagner in a heartbeat.

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02-10-2013, 01:13 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Oiltankjob 4 93 64 View Post
He looked quite sluggish today but was still decent on the pk Imo, but I do get a chuckle at the unwarranted hate this guy gets on the Oiler board, many teams would take Gagner in a heartbeat.
And what would they give in return? That's what matters. Simply saying "so and so teams would take him for free" really doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot, if we are to part ways with his we will more than likely be looking for a decent trade return, who gives us that for Gagner?

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02-10-2013, 01:30 AM
  #155
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So 10 games = consistency? Remember when everyone figured that he was a lock for 50 points after his insane hot streak? If he can stay there for all 48 games we're onto something. 10 games? Premature praise IMO.
He has put up 42 and 47 points the last two seasons. In terms of points per game, he will in all likelihood surpass both seasons this year. Considering the abysmal teams he's played on, I don't think those are bad numbers. Do you?

If he puts up good numbers this season, we'll be having this same conversation next year. You'll be saying "oh, last year was only 48 games. I want to see what he does in a full 82 game season before feeling comfortable with him on the second line".

If it's premature to praise him after 11 games this year, then surely it's also premature to **** on other players who haven't been playing to their potential. But that hasn't stopped posters here from doing so. So which is it? Are 11 games enough to make judgements or not?

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02-10-2013, 01:37 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
And what would they give in return? That's what matters. Simply saying "so and so teams would take him for free" really doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot, if we are to part ways with his we will more than likely be looking for a decent trade return, who gives us that for Gagner?
I guess it would depend on what teams needed, a team looking for scoring might consider a 3/4th dman . Gagner has his limitations as a player but he still is a productive one. Fans in here are to quick to jump on a player when he has a bad game MPS is another one in here he is still young with lots to offer and people are writing him off he will be in this league another decade.

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02-10-2013, 01:38 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
I'm still intrigued by Cody Hodgson, he has more size and more of the tools I think we need. I'd do a Hemsky + Gagner for Hodgson + Stafford swap.

Nothing against Sam, I would just feel more comfortable with a legit 6 footer as our 2nd line C given all our other size issues.
Hodgson is one inch taller and 5lbs lighter than Gagner.

Hodgson is 43% in the faceoff circle vs Gagner's 37% this season.

Would we really be getting much more?

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02-10-2013, 02:55 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by SeriousBusiness View Post
He has put up 42 and 47 points the last two seasons. In terms of points per game, he will in all likelihood surpass both seasons this year. Considering the abysmal teams he's played on, I don't think those are bad numbers. Do you?

If he puts up good numbers this season, we'll be having this same conversation next year. You'll be saying "oh, last year was only 48 games. I want to see what he does in a full 82 game season before feeling comfortable with him on the second line".

If it's premature to praise him after 11 games this year, then surely it's also premature to **** on other players who haven't been playing to their potential. But that hasn't stopped posters here from doing so. So which is it? Are 11 games enough to make judgements or not?
First off his issues have been consistency (rack up a lot of points and then go quiet), defense, faceoffs, and strength. Have we seen Gagner go on similar streaks in his career? ie. 10 points in 11 games? I'm pretty sure that we have, as a matter of fact he did that in his rookie year. It's called a hot streak until he shows that he can maintain it.

As for crapping on other players, IMO in the case of Whitney it is well deserved, for a number of other guys it's either based on this season + our past viewings of them, or in some cases it's nitpicking. And in case you didn't know his offensive production doesn't worry/bother me the kid has good hands and can dish the puck very well, it's the other parts of his game 6 years into his career that leaves me wanting more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oiltankjob 4 93 64 View Post
I guess it would depend on what teams needed, a team looking for scoring might consider a 3/4th dman . Gagner has his limitations as a player but he still is a productive one. Fans in here are to quick to jump on a player when he has a bad game MPS is another one in here he is still young with lots to offer and people are writing him off he will be in this league another decade.
He has value, but I still don't see him as our long term solution here.

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02-10-2013, 04:46 PM
  #159
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I'm a Gagner fan, but if he can't win faceoffs, he shouldn't be a centre. Possibly the most important part of being a centre is being able to win faceoffs and he still doesn't do it nearly well enough into his 6th season in the NHL.

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02-10-2013, 04:55 PM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
First off his issues have been consistency (rack up a lot of points and then go quiet), defense, faceoffs, and strength. Have we seen Gagner go on similar streaks in his career? ie. 10 points in 11 games? I'm pretty sure that we have, as a matter of fact he did that in his rookie year. It's called a hot streak until he shows that he can maintain it.

He has value, but I still don't see him as our long term solution here.
In the same day and on another thread you indicated you hated and despised Gagner's play. Strong words. This being stated by you at a time when he was above ppg in scoring thus far this season and leading the club. In that same thread you called him a garbage player. . So why continue to try to defend your position when you've admitted your bias?

Consistency? " Back to that? Seriously?

With a player thats never had less then 41pts in a season, and is very young, its hardly a problem and only getting better.

Doesn't Gagner have 58 pts over this year and last in 86GP? Thats better rate of production than anybody but ONE player on this club.

Time to take off the hate goggles.

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02-10-2013, 05:02 PM
  #161
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A lot of the faceoffs are not lost because of the center. A lot are lost because the wingers fail to retrieve the puck when the centers tie up. Would like to see that added into a centers stats.

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02-10-2013, 05:03 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
In the same day and on another thread you indicated you hated and despised Gagner's play. Strong words. This being stated by you at a time when he was above ppg in scoring thus far this season and leading the club. In that same thread you called him a garbage player. . So why continue to try to defend your position when you've admitted your bias?

Consistency? " Back to that? Seriously?

With a player thats never had less then 41pts in a season, and is very young, its hardly a problem and only getting better.

Doesn't Gagner have 58 pts over this year and last in 86GP? Thats better rate of production than anybody but ONE player on this club.

Time to take off the hate goggles.
No kidding. I think its time for those silly monikers like "Sammy Snowpants" to go.I think he at least deserves that respect.

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02-10-2013, 08:31 PM
  #163
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Instead of replacing Gagner with a big #2 centre like many people have been saying. I would look to getting a big gritty guy in place of Hemsky.
Which #2 center role.

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02-10-2013, 08:49 PM
  #164
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I didn't get to see the game, but he looked great on the winner tonight. Burnt Wiz at the point, carried it in and set the table for Paajarvi. Then hits the EN goal. Lil Sammy Snowpants is now Samuel L. Gagner.

Can I hear a "what, what", Nabob?

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02-10-2013, 09:13 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Oiltankjob 4 93 64 View Post
He looked quite sluggish today but was still decent on the pk Imo, but I do get a chuckle at the unwarranted hate this guy gets on the Oiler board, many teams would take Gagner in a heartbeat.
Too Quote LT, "I used to be a Moderator" "The masses get vicious after a game."

His Seasons:
07-08 1st 18YR old #37C 49Pts 79GM
08-09 2nd 19yr old #59C 41ts 76GM
09-10 3rd 20 yr old #51C 41 Pts 68GM
10-11 4th 21 yr old #49C 42Pts 68GM
11-12 5th 22 Yr old #37C 47Pts 75GM
12-13 6th 23 Yr old #6C 13Pts 12GM

The kid was allways scoring at a 2nd line center pace. Just needed to increase the level of competition he could handle.

Now he faces the best breaks even and is 6th in points for centers and

People are saying he is now A #2 Center.

lets see:
Thorton continues to be a 2nd C.
datsyuk continues to be a 2nd C.
tavares continues to be a 2nd C.
E. Staal continues to be a 2nd C.
Toews continues to be a 2nd C.
Lecavalier continues to be a 2nd C.

there are two options.
1. people are trolling on an extreme level.
2. they are complete idiots.

I pick #1 cause no one is this stupid.

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02-10-2013, 10:00 PM
  #166
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Regardless of whether you agree that Sam is the right #2C for this team, you have to admit that patience with Gagner is starting to pay off. Like many people have aforementioned: Gagner is much better speedwise, stronger on the puck, and creating offensive opportunities.

I think this is the breakout year that every Oilers fans were waiting for.

He has regressed in faceoffs this year, which is a little unfortunate, but thats okay.

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02-10-2013, 10:13 PM
  #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilerbear View Post
Too Quote LT, "I used to be a Moderator" "The masses get vicious after a game."

His Seasons:
07-08 1st 18YR old #37C 49Pts 79GM
08-09 2nd 19yr old #59C 41ts 76GM
09-10 3rd 20 yr old #51C 41 Pts 68GM
10-11 4th 21 yr old #49C 42Pts 68GM
11-12 5th 22 Yr old #37C 47Pts 75GM
12-13 6th 23 Yr old #6C 13Pts 12GM

The kid was allways scoring at a 2nd line center pace. Just needed to increase the level of competition he could handle.

Now he faces the best breaks even and is 6th in points for centers and

People are saying he is now A #2 Center.

lets see:
Thorton continues to be a 2nd C.
datsyuk continues to be a 2nd C.
tavares continues to be a 2nd C.
E. Staal continues to be a 2nd C.
Toews continues to be a 2nd C.
Lecavalier continues to be a 2nd C.

there are two options.
1. people are trolling on an extreme level.
2. they are complete idiots.

I pick #1 cause no one is this stupid.
No argument from me and ive lurked here a long time and I appreciate your statistical breakdowns on here very informative imo.

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02-10-2013, 10:29 PM
  #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue And Orange View Post
Regardless of whether you agree that Sam is the right #2C for this team, you have to admit that patience with Gagner is starting to pay off. Like many people have aforementioned: Gagner is much better speedwise, stronger on the puck, and creating offensive opportunities.

I think this is the breakout year that every Oilers fans were waiting for.

He has regressed in faceoffs this year, which is a little unfortunate, but thats okay.
I wouldn't call it a regression, so much as the opponents he's facing now are stronger at faceoffs.

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02-10-2013, 10:44 PM
  #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue And Orange View Post
Regardless of whether you agree that Sam is the right #2C for this team, you have to admit that patience with Gagner is starting to pay off. Like many people have aforementioned: Gagner is much better speedwise, stronger on the puck, and creating offensive opportunities.

I think this is the breakout year that every Oilers fans were waiting for.

He has regressed in faceoffs this year, which is a little unfortunate, but thats okay.
Agreed. I always held out hope, but was also one to voice my frustrations about his play. This year he shows continued improvement in basically every area that was previously a weakness (though his skating is still below average IMO). He seems committed to improving his game and that same determination is seen on the ice with his willingness to drop the gloves against guys he's guaranteed to get stomped by. As far as being to small in our top 6, Hemmer is the odd man out for me. Get Yak on his natural wing and look for a LW with size. And get grittier in the bottom 6.

The only question that remains with Gagner is what type of extension do you offer, and what will he be seeking? 4 per? 3 years? A year and a half away from being one of the youngest free agents in a while, and arbitration eligible in a year where he is lighting it up early... could get interesting.

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02-11-2013, 12:23 AM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
In the same day and on another thread you indicated you hated and despised Gagner's play. Strong words. This being stated by you at a time when he was above ppg in scoring thus far this season and leading the club. In that same thread you called him a garbage player. . So why continue to try to defend your position when you've admitted your bias?

Consistency? " Back to that? Seriously?

With a player thats never had less then 41pts in a season, and is very young, its hardly a problem and only getting better.

Doesn't Gagner have 58 pts over this year and last in 86GP? Thats better rate of production than anybody but ONE player on this club.

Time to take off the hate goggles.
I said that I hate and despise his game in the D and Neutral zones, I guess you accidentally forgot to include that because you couldn't possibly be trying to pick and choose the wording to suit your agenda could you?

So a player that scores 10 points in 10 games and then 2 in the next 10 and then 5 in the next 10 and then 1 in the next 10, etc. is consistent? I guess if consistently inconsistent is consistency then knock your socks off. As for your 86 game crap, are we talking players last 86 games or just the last 86 games that the Oilers have played? If it's the latter then it's obviously because A) our other good players were injured or haven't played that many career games (RNH anyone?).

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02-11-2013, 12:29 AM
  #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilerbear View Post
Too Quote LT, "I used to be a Moderator" "The masses get vicious after a game."

His Seasons:
07-08 1st 18YR old #37C 49Pts 79GM
08-09 2nd 19yr old #59C 41ts 76GM
09-10 3rd 20 yr old #51C 41 Pts 68GM
10-11 4th 21 yr old #49C 42Pts 68GM
11-12 5th 22 Yr old #37C 47Pts 75GM
12-13 6th 23 Yr old #6C 13Pts 12GM

The kid was allways scoring at a 2nd line center pace. Just needed to increase the level of competition he could handle.

Now he faces the best breaks even and is 6th in points for centers and

People are saying he is now A #2 Center.

lets see:
Thorton continues to be a 2nd C.
datsyuk continues to be a 2nd C.
tavares continues to be a 2nd C.
E. Staal continues to be a 2nd C.
Toews continues to be a 2nd C.
Lecavalier continues to be a 2nd C.

there are two options.
1. people are trolling on an extreme level.
2. they are complete idiots.

I pick #1 cause no one is this stupid.
So let me get this straight, because Gagner is off to a hot start he is now a 1st line center? After 12 games where he is 38% on faceoffs, is a - player, got schooled by Umberger tonight? Give me a ****ing break. Wake me up when Gagner hits even 60 points in the NHL. He'd get torched head to head with any of those centers and IMO Lecavalier isn't even a true #1 at this point in his career. Talk about putting the cart before the horse. If he truly believes that garbage then I'd guess that option #2 fits him like a glove.

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02-11-2013, 12:33 AM
  #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue And Orange View Post
Regardless of whether you agree that Sam is the right #2C for this team, you have to admit that patience with Gagner is starting to pay off. Like many people have aforementioned: Gagner is much better speedwise, stronger on the puck, and creating offensive opportunities.

I think this is the breakout year that every Oilers fans were waiting for.

He has regressed in faceoffs this year, which is a little unfortunate, but thats okay.
Offensively he is playing fine hockey, it doesn't hurt that he has a healthy and rejuvinated Hemsky and either Nail or Hall on his wing. That said I'll give credit where it's due, he has been making things happen offensively this season so far. Now the bad part, his defense is sub par, his faceoffs are disgustingly bad for a player with his experience level, and he seems to like to fly the zone rather than support the breakout. He thinks offense 1st, 2nd, and 3rd sometimes and that kind of thinking will kill us if we make it to the postseason with him in tow.

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02-11-2013, 12:50 AM
  #173
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Sam is a top 6 forward. He has the offensive numbers to support that. But he is not what this team needs as a #2 C. Six years in, he is 37% on the dot. That is horrible. He is not strong enough to play the position in his own end. He physically cannot handle the majority of the centers he faces when the puck is in our own end. He would be fine as a winger as long as he had a big C to play with that would do the dirty work.

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02-11-2013, 12:55 AM
  #174
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Originally Posted by bellagiobob View Post
Sam is a top 6 forward. He has the offensive numbers to support that. But he is not what this team needs as a #2 C. Six years in, he is 37% on the dot. That is horrible. He is not strong enough to play the position in his own end. He physically cannot handle the majority of the centers he faces when the puck is in our own end. He would be fine as a winger as long as he had a big C to play with that would do the dirty work.
More quickness and a better stick defensively would do wonders for him in the defensive end IMO regardless of his size/strength.

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02-11-2013, 01:30 AM
  #175
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
I said that I hate and despise his game in the D and Neutral zones, I guess you accidentally forgot to include that because you couldn't possibly be trying to pick and choose the wording to suit your agenda could you?

So a player that scores 10 points in 10 games and then 2 in the next 10 and then 5 in the next 10 and then 1 in the next 10, etc. is consistent? I guess if consistently inconsistent is consistency then knock your socks off. As for your 86 game crap, are we talking players last 86 games or just the last 86 games that the Oilers have played? If it's the latter then it's obviously because A) our other good players were injured or haven't played that many career games (RNH anyone?).
EVERY player on this club has stretches where they get nothing done and are not scoring goals, getting pts, etc. Strangely among a certain crowd this only gets mentioned when its Sam going cold. Why is that btw?

Gagner now has 60pts over the last 87GP. One of the positive features of Gagner is that he doesn't miss a whole lot of games. I'm talking pure pts and contribution to team. No need for proration in Gagners case is there?

Not sure why you call the 86 games "crap" I was talking about Gagners games this season and last and referenced that clearly. Not sure why you're talking up **** either.

You stated you hated and despised GAgners play in two zones(wow how off I was with that) and that he's a "garbage" hockey player. Good for everybody to know how you stand on this. Not like it isn't obvious.

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