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The Great Wall of Theo - Panthers at Caps 2/9/13 7PM

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Old
02-10-2013, 01:09 AM
  #276
AaronEkbald
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Bad game.. Wipe the slate clean.. Beat them in our home barn..

The season is still considered young.

Note.

This will not be my response if we get 5-0'd again..

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02-10-2013, 01:09 AM
  #277
JonathanHuberdoh
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicket View Post
I know I'm going to get sh$t on but i think they should have sent Huby back to junior. We are going no where in this short season and saving a year on his contract and being a very cheap team would have been the smartest thing to do.
Also, what has Shore actually done. Nothing. 2 assist in 10 games. Send him down. Save his confidence for next year.
This team is not going to benefit by having these guys up.
We are still establishing our selves. Let the rentals grind it out and safe the young guys the pain.
This is what I said 5 games ago. You can go to the GDT and quote me on it.

I said "this team is not good enough to support Shore. His offensive game hasn't developed enough to be competitive at the NHL level yet. Let him go to the AHL and get better. If he gets his offensive confidence up, he'll come up next year and play well".

Instead we're doing with him what we've done with tons of prospects in our history. Rush them. Shore has been good, but I agree 2 assists for a second line center in 10 games? Come on Dale are you REALLY trying to sell us on Shore as a legit top-6 forward right now?

His ceiling is a 3rd line center. He'll never be THAT good. I love him has a player but we gotta call a spade a spade at some point. He's not getting it done on the scoresheet and we have more than enough checkers right now.

EDIT-I'm not saying Shore hasn't been great, because he has. But his offensive game just isn't quite there. He's had a TON of chances and hasn't buried a single one. That's kind of important in the game of hockey. Going back to the AHL isn't as much of a demotion as a long-term move. He HAS to boost his offensive confidence before he can contribute viably in the NHL.

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02-10-2013, 01:12 AM
  #278
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Oh and one more thing....

Versteeg is probably our worst player right now. He literally KILLS offensive chances.

He had a 2-on-1 with Huby about halfway through the 1st, still a 0-0 game. EVERYONE IN THE BUILDING and watching at home knew he was shooting, and shooting glove side. If he passes it to Huby or takes a shot off the pad for a rebound, that's a goal and we got a whole new hockey game.

Instead he turns towards the net and shoots so predictably. The guy is driving me nuts right now. Literally yelling at the screen.

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02-10-2013, 01:57 AM
  #279
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Originally Posted by JonathanHuberdoh View Post
This is what I said 5 games ago. You can go to the GDT and quote me on it.

I said "this team is not good enough to support Shore. His offensive game hasn't developed enough to be competitive at the NHL level yet. Let him go to the AHL and get better. If he gets his offensive confidence up, he'll come up next year and play well".

Instead we're doing with him what we've done with tons of prospects in our history. Rush them. Shore has been good, but I agree 2 assists for a second line center in 10 games? Come on Dale are you REALLY trying to sell us on Shore as a legit top-6 forward right now?

His ceiling is a 3rd line center. He'll never be THAT good. I love him has a player but we gotta call a spade a spade at some point. He's not getting it done on the scoresheet and we have more than enough checkers right now.

EDIT-I'm not saying Shore hasn't been great, because he has. But his offensive game just isn't quite there. He's had a TON of chances and hasn't buried a single one. That's kind of important in the game of hockey. Going back to the AHL isn't as much of a demotion as a long-term move. He HAS to boost his offensive confidence before he can contribute viably in the NHL.
Shore is fine. He's our best forward right now and is just rather unlucky at this point. This isn't the second version of Rostislav Olesz. Let him play more than 10 games (production-wise, a portion of those 10 shouldn't even count because he started on the 4th line and earned his way up).

Just two games ago he deked out Winnipeg's whole team and the play led to a point in the standings that we wouldn't have gotten if not for him. He's had a huge impact in everything that's not goals and assists, as well. Faceoffs have been great. The addition of Shore to the lineup along with Weiss and Goc has also steadied things defensively.

He's fine. I think you need to relax. You seem like a diehard fan who enjoys the wins a lot and takes the losses way too hard. I think we all do, but let's keep things in perspective. Shore has earned his way onto this roster and it would go against what this organization (and any other organization) preaches about accountability, etc. He deserves to be here with the way he's played. We're 3-1-1 in the last 5 in large part because of the way he's played along with some others.

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02-10-2013, 02:09 AM
  #280
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Originally Posted by Erick View Post
Shore is fine. He's our best forward right now and is just rather unlucky at this point. This isn't the second version of Rostislav Olesz. Let him play more than 10 games (production-wise, a portion of those 10 shouldn't even count because he started on the 4th line and earned his way up).

Just two games ago he deked out Winnipeg's whole team and the play led to a point in the standings that we wouldn't have gotten if not for him. He's had a huge impact in everything that's not goals and assists, as well. Faceoffs have been great. The addition of Shore to the lineup along with Weiss and Goc has also steadied things defensively.

He's fine. I think you need to relax. You seem like a diehard fan who enjoys the wins a lot and takes the losses way too hard. I think we all do, but let's keep things in perspective. Shore has earned his way onto this roster and it would go against what this organization (and any other organization) preaches about accountability, etc. He deserves to be here with the way he's played. We're 3-1-1 in the last 5 in large part because of the way he's played along with some others.
You're right, I wear my heart on my sleeve with this team, but I'm not clouded by emotions on this subject. Go back to one of our GDTs (it was after a win). I said we should send Shore down because his offense "just isn't there yet".

All I'm saying is I've seen this story before. As Panther fans, we've all seen this happen. Guy gets called up, plays better than expected, than our expectations get higher. He really has been great. Easily one of my favorite players so far this year. But I'm just not seeing that finish.

Honestly it's his shot. His shot is not up to NHL standards yet. He doesn't have finish right now. My point is that maybe he can work on his finish down in the AHL for the rest of the year and really come back strong next season. Some of you are saying that without Shore we'd be 2-9. Like I said Shore has been great but come on, let's be realistic here. Our "success" recently probably makes more sense from a perspective of Goc and others coming back/team getting more cohesive. We did play Santo on the top line remember?

My point is, so many of us are keen on keeping Markstrom down to develop and to "hone his skills" but we're all willing to rush Shore? Why? Why is Marky getting babied so much and others not? Shore hasn't even had a full season in the A yet. Remember when Marky came up and stole that Montreal game? We all had full on erections! But then we all came back down to reality.

Please, remember, I LOVE SHORE, he's been awesome. Like everyone says, he does the little things, grinds things out, hustles, wins faceoffs and gives it his all. But the fact that someone like Drew Shore is making a visible impact to our offense says more about our offense than it does about Drew Shore.

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02-10-2013, 02:42 AM
  #281
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Originally Posted by JonathanHuberdoh View Post
You're right, I wear my heart on my sleeve with this team, but I'm not clouded by emotions on this subject. Go back to one of our GDTs (it was after a win). I said we should send Shore down because his offense "just isn't there yet".

All I'm saying is I've seen this story before. As Panther fans, we've all seen this happen. Guy gets called up, plays better than expected, than our expectations get higher. He really has been great. Easily one of my favorite players so far this year. But I'm just not seeing that finish.

Honestly it's his shot. His shot is not up to NHL standards yet. He doesn't have finish right now. My point is that maybe he can work on his finish down in the AHL for the rest of the year and really come back strong next season. Some of you are saying that without Shore we'd be 2-9. Like I said Shore has been great but come on, let's be realistic here. Our "success" recently probably makes more sense from a perspective of Goc and others coming back/team getting more cohesive. We did play Santo on the top line remember?

My point is, so many of us are keen on keeping Markstrom down to develop and to "hone his skills" but we're all willing to rush Shore? Why? Why is Marky getting babied so much and others not? Shore hasn't even had a full season in the A yet. Remember when Marky came up and stole that Montreal game? We all had full on erections! But then we all came back down to reality.

Please, remember, I LOVE SHORE, he's been awesome. Like everyone says, he does the little things, grinds things out, hustles, wins faceoffs and gives it his all. But the fact that someone like Drew Shore is making a visible impact to our offense says more about our offense than it does about Drew Shore.

Forwards and goalies develop differently.

Also, I actually think most of us believe Markstrom is NHL ready just like most of us believe Shore is. Personally, I believe both are ready.

However, we can only roster two goaltenders and we currently already have two goaltenders under contract who just so happen to have led us to the playoffs last year. Furthermore, we can only play one goaltender at a time, and it's not conclusive that Markstrom would be the best one on the team if he was here.

It's easier for Shore to get to the NHL. There are 4 center spots and 12 forward spots. There aren't 4 centers in this organization better than Shore (clearly), much less 12 forwards.

This really has nothing to do with Markstrom for me. Personally, I was hoping we wouldn't re-sign Clemmer, but we did, so why just waive him and pay him for no reason? After two starts...

It's sort of like we probably have a lot of defensemen better than Ed Jovanovski, but we paid him the bad contract. Due to the business of the sport, you sort of have to live with it.

Same with Scottie Upshall. Etc, etc.

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02-10-2013, 04:03 AM
  #282
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Oh and one more thing....

Versteeg is probably our worst player right now. He literally KILLS offensive chances.

He had a 2-on-1 with Huby about halfway through the 1st, still a 0-0 game. EVERYONE IN THE BUILDING and watching at home knew he was shooting, and shooting glove side. If he passes it to Huby or takes a shot off the pad for a rebound, that's a goal and we got a whole new hockey game.

Instead he turns towards the net and shoots so predictably. The guy is driving me nuts right now. Literally yelling at the screen.
When that situation devolep I was so hoping Hubs had the puck instead. Get Versteeg away from the youngsters quick! I bet Tallon is gonna have a talk with Steeg soon. Mueller - Steeg switch places. Weiss and Fleish are more used to Steeg wannabe Kane antics. Like SoupyFin said before Shore-Hubs line really needs Bergenheim on it right now. Mueller is a much better with them tho than Steeg. Right now the way he's playing he kills all offensive opportunies

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02-10-2013, 04:37 AM
  #283
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When that situation devolep I was so hoping Hubs had the puck instead. Get Versteeg away from the youngsters quick! I bet Tallon is gonna have a talk with Steeg soon. Mueller - Steeg switch places. Weiss and Fleish are more used to Steeg wannabe Kane antics. Like SoupyFin said before Shore-Hubs line really needs Bergenheim on it right now. Mueller is a much better with them tho than Steeg. Right now the way he's playing he kills all offensive opportunies
Totally agree. I really wish this team was deep enough to put him on the 3rd line. He would be much better in smaller doses - he's just not good enough to carry the offensive load which he is trying to do. If he would just simplify his game, like it was at the beginning of last year, he would be a good asset. At the moment hes a detriment. He can be scrappy when he wants to be, so would make a perfect 3rd liner but getting 1st line minutes exposes him and on the 2nd line hes too overbearing for the other guys.

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02-10-2013, 05:42 AM
  #284
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I knew we were gonna lose this game, it was just a question of how much.

Huberdeau is an NHL player, he would have a lot more points if the team was healthy and that his teammates could finish off his sweet passes.

Shore also belongs in the NHL. Its not all about the score. He contributes in so many other ways, like faceoff etc. But I also see your point of him developing more in the AHL, but I think its a great learning experience for him anyway.

I hate when the Panthers do this every year, not tanking and not making the playoffs. You never know what to hope for, and we keep being mediocre.

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02-10-2013, 07:49 AM
  #285
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Parros set the tone here. He got destroyed, then they all got destroyed.

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I think that about sums it up

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02-10-2013, 08:04 AM
  #286
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Can't figure these damn Panthers out. Get blown out one game, play semi-bad the next, back on track for a couple of games then blown out again, and the cycle restarts.

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02-10-2013, 08:56 AM
  #287
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Shore has that syndrome so many Panthers have had over the years, shoot the puck into the logo of the goalie. I think he'll be great in a couple of years, his size down the middle and the fact that he doesn't cough the puck every 15 secs shows me he belongs.I thought it was stupid to switch up Muells and Versteeg

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02-10-2013, 09:17 AM
  #288
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Shore has that syndrome so many Panthers have had over the years, shoot the puck into the logo of the goalie. I think he'll be great in a couple of years, his size down the middle and the fact that he doesn't cough the puck every 15 secs shows me he belongs.I thought it was stupid to switch up Muells and Versteeg
I think it's stupid as well. I'm always in the 'ride the hot hand' category. You play it for all it's worth until it ain't hot anymore (see last year's 1st line & when Clem got hot down the stretch). I'm not saying Huby/Shore/Mules were 'that' hot but they did have something going on. There was no need to break them up and hopefully Dineen corrects this next game.

-ghoste

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02-10-2013, 11:06 AM
  #289
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I thought this implosion would happen at Philly instead.

I don't think I'll be changing my avatar back any time soon.

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02-10-2013, 11:08 AM
  #290
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Can't figure these damn Panthers out. Get blown out one game, play semi-bad the next, back on track for a couple of games then blown out again, and the cycle restarts.
Where have you been the last 13 years?

The only thing that has changed is your expectations.

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02-10-2013, 12:06 PM
  #291
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Oh and one more thing....

Versteeg is probably our worst player right now. He literally KILLS offensive chances.

He had a 2-on-1 with Huby about halfway through the 1st, still a 0-0 game. EVERYONE IN THE BUILDING and watching at home knew he was shooting, and shooting glove side. If he passes it to Huby or takes a shot off the pad for a rebound, that's a goal and we got a whole new hockey game.

Instead he turns towards the net and shoots so predictably. The guy is driving me nuts right now. Literally yelling at the screen.
Agree. I think that was the turning point in the game. It gave Holtby a lot of confidence and was our best scoring chance up to that point. And it was SO OBVIOUS he was shooting. So much so, the D-man was barely guarding the pass across to Hubs. I don't have a problem shooting like he did on the 2-1 but like you said, once he crossed the blue line you knew he was shooting glove side. Even Bill Lindsay knows you try to shoot low if in hopes of a rebound if you don't have any openings. Just a terrible all around play.

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02-10-2013, 12:08 PM
  #292
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I think it's stupid as well. I'm always in the 'ride the hot hand' category. You play it for all it's worth until it ain't hot anymore (see last year's 1st line & when Clem got hot down the stretch). I'm not saying Huby/Shore/Mules were 'that' hot but they did have something going on. There was no need to break them up and hopefully Dineen corrects this next game.

-ghoste
Agree. It could be to reward Mueller, get Weiss and Flash going, or hoping to get Versteeg going so I could see a bunch of reasons for Dinnen doing it. But like you said, you play it for all it's worth until it's not hot anymore.

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02-10-2013, 12:20 PM
  #293
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i didnt mind versteeg shooting it on the 2 on 1, the D from what i remember had his stick kinda in there, it wouldnt have been a clean pass, he couldve tried to saucer it, but you know what would happen if he passed it, or attempted to and screwed up? everyone would pull their hair out and be angry he didnt shoot it when he had a clear shot. he was able to walk in very close and a clear shot to the net, he took it, unfortunately it didnt go in. wish he tried it low pad so holtby might kick it towards huberdeau if he did make the save but it is what it is. im fine with versteeg right now, wish they just kept him on the first w/ weiss and flash tho, idk why they changed them.

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02-11-2013, 06:39 AM
  #294
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Agree. It could be to reward Mueller, get Weiss and Flash going, or hoping to get Versteeg going so I could see a bunch of reasons for Dinnen doing it. But like you said, you play it for all it's worth until it's not hot anymore.
I'm also in the camp of keeping that cub line together. I don't like lines breaking up while they're hot. Much logic to moving versteeg around, but not my cup of tee.

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02-11-2013, 11:12 AM
  #295
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You're right, I wear my heart on my sleeve with this team, but I'm not clouded by emotions on this subject. Go back to one of our GDTs (it was after a win). I said we should send Shore down because his offense "just isn't there yet".

All I'm saying is I've seen this story before. As Panther fans, we've all seen this happen. Guy gets called up, plays better than expected, than our expectations get higher. He really has been great. Easily one of my favorite players so far this year. But I'm just not seeing that finish.

Honestly it's his shot. His shot is not up to NHL standards yet. He doesn't have finish right now. My point is that maybe he can work on his finish down in the AHL for the rest of the year and really come back strong next season. Some of you are saying that without Shore we'd be 2-9. Like I said Shore has been great but come on, let's be realistic here. Our "success" recently probably makes more sense from a perspective of Goc and others coming back/team getting more cohesive. We did play Santo on the top line remember?

My point is, so many of us are keen on keeping Markstrom down to develop and to "hone his skills" but we're all willing to rush Shore? Why? Why is Marky getting babied so much and others not? Shore hasn't even had a full season in the A yet. Remember when Marky came up and stole that Montreal game? We all had full on erections! But then we all came back down to reality.

Please, remember, I LOVE SHORE, he's been awesome. Like everyone says, he does the little things, grinds things out, hustles, wins faceoffs and gives it his all. But the fact that someone like Drew Shore is making a visible impact to our offense says more about our offense than it does about Drew Shore.
If you go back to Shore's college days and his scouting reports going into the draft, he's never really been considered a pure scorer. He's much more of a passing threat than a shooting/scoring threat and always has been that way. He's probably never going to score more goals than assist. It's just the kind of player he is. In fact, I highly doubt he sticks at center for his whole career. He'll probably move to a wing. So to base your opinion on why you want to send him down on his shot really isn't fair.

As you and others have said, he's done absolutely everything to show that he belongs here. He's easily our best all around forward right now.

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02-11-2013, 12:11 PM
  #296
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I don't really believe in superstitions, but I am worried about me making anymore GDT's. So far I think we are 0-5 when I make a GDT.

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02-11-2013, 12:12 PM
  #297
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If you go back to Shore's college days and his scouting reports going into the draft, he's never really been considered a pure scorer. He's much more of a passing threat than a shooting/scoring threat and always has been that way. He's probably never going to score more goals than assist. It's just the kind of player he is. In fact, I highly doubt he sticks at center for his whole career. He'll probably move to a wing. So to base your opinion on why you want to send him down on his shot really isn't fair.

As you and others have said, he's done absolutely everything to show that he belongs here. He's easily our best all around forward right now.
With how good he is in the faceoff circle, that doesnt make much sense to move him to wing. I dont see why he would move to wing when he's winning over 57% of his faceoffs (good enough to be top 15 in the entire NHL). I think people just have to realize he's not a goal scorer, never will be, and accept that.

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02-11-2013, 03:21 PM
  #298
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I don't really believe in superstitions, but I am worried about me making anymore GDT's. So far I think we are 0-5 when I make a GDT.
I think you know what to do from here on out.

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02-11-2013, 03:45 PM
  #299
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I don't really believe in superstitions, but I am worried about me making anymore GDT's. So far I think we are 0-5 when I make a GDT.
I was on a pretty good streak last season, up until game 7 that is. Hopefully Thursday will be a good day for us.

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02-11-2013, 05:19 PM
  #300
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With how good he is in the faceoff circle, that doesnt make much sense to move him to wing. I dont see why he would move to wing when he's winning over 57% of his faceoffs (good enough to be top 15 in the entire NHL). I think people just have to realize he's not a goal scorer, never will be, and accept that.
The two knocks on his game going in to the draft were that he's not a great scorer and he's just an average skater. Sure, he's winning faceoffs and that's great but without the goals and without him being great on his skates, it doesn't make much sense to have him manning the middle.

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