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Old
07-02-2006, 07:48 PM
  #26
Rotang
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Neither do I but that is just what it is right now. Hopefully that changes. There are no #1 centers available in the free agent market and I'm not sure how many are available through trade. Top line centers aren't easy to come by.
Morrison for Conroy

please?

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07-02-2006, 07:50 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by kingsfan25 View Post
IMO, as long as the core is strong, it shouldn't really make a difference if the team has a traditional #1...
Well,

a) The Kings core isn't strong enough. Though - obviously - at this stage if the Kings go anywhere it would be a lightning-in-a-bottle type run.

and

b) The results don't lie. Virtually every team who has won the Cup in recent memory has had (at least) one dominant #1 center. Yzerman, Fedorov, Staal, Sakic, Forsberg, Lemieux, Francis, Gretzky, Messier, Modano et al were all top-10 (or better) centers when their respective teams won the Cup.

The only real anomaly was New Jersey but they had bar none the world's best goaltender, two elite defenseman and played the most stifling hockey ever played up to that point. Frankly, the results are starkly in favour of the notion that - yes - a dominant center is a necessary ingredient to winning the Cup.

That said, I'm fine with Conroy for the time being. We aren't in a position to be a true contenders and giving Kopitar & Sully the opportunity to see important minutes is probably more important long term for the franchise. And Conroy is a good vet to have around. I have an inkling though that DL still intends on moving Conroy.

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Old
07-02-2006, 08:05 PM
  #28
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I agree with Osprey actually, and it will be good to see Kopitar/O'Sullivan battle it it out for the #1 center spot.. It will eventually happen.. I'm not big on Conroy AT ALL.

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Old
07-02-2006, 08:22 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by willie View Post
Well,

a) The Kings core isn't strong enough. Though - obviously - at this stage if the Kings go anywhere it would be a lightning-in-a-bottle type run.

and

b) The results don't lie. Virtually every team who has won the Cup in recent memory has had (at least) one dominant #1 center. Yzerman, Fedorov, Staal, Sakic, Forsberg, Lemieux, Francis, Gretzky, Messier, Modano et al were all top-10 (or better) centers when their respective teams won the Cup.

The only real anomaly was New Jersey but they had bar none the world's best goaltender, two elite defenseman and played the most stifling hockey ever played up to that point. Frankly, the results are starkly in favour of the notion that - yes - a dominant center is a necessary ingredient to winning the Cup.

That said, I'm fine with Conroy for the time being. We aren't in a position to be a true contenders and giving Kopitar & Sully the opportunity to see important minutes is probably more important long term for the franchise. And Conroy is a good vet to have around. I have an inkling though that DL still intends on moving Conroy.

It's great to have one, certainly. But the Kings really haven't drafted any and there are none that seem all that available on the trading market.

A #1 center has to be more than a point-producer; he has to be the face of the team; he has to be the on-ice and off-ice leader and he has to, essentially be the rallying example for his team. It'd be nice if the Kings could develop one of those on their own, but that doesn't seem to be on the horizon (though I guess O'Sullivan kind of fits the potential MO). I think DT tried to get just that in Allison...and I really think it could have worked if not for the injury and media ugliness that followed.

For now, at this current stage of development, I think the team can do alright without one. Buffalo did pretty well lacking a conventional #1, as did Anaheim. If DL wants to acquire one at some point, it's a good thing to have. Or, as Osprey alluded to, maybe O'Sullivan or Kopitar will start to develop into that role.

Also, looking at your list, there seems to be a bit of a pattern that emerges among the top players. It would be interesting to debate which ones, in particular, played a larger role in their teams' success. For example, on Detroit, you've got Yzerman and you've got Fedorov; Feds was the points machine and Stevey Y was the leader...on Colorado you've got Forsberg as the points player and Sakic as the leader...and on Carolina you've got Staal and Brind'Amour.

Which was the more prevalent contributor? The one who lit up the scoreboard or the one who rallied the troops?

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Old
07-02-2006, 08:59 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FaceoffsRLikeWins4Us View Post
I agree with Osprey actually, and it will be good to see Kopitar/O'Sullivan battle it it out for the #1 center spot.. It will eventually happen.. I'm not big on Conroy AT ALL.
Whats there not to be big on in Conroy? He's a character vet who can play in any situation you throw him in.

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Old
07-02-2006, 09:02 PM
  #31
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If Conroy made more than 4M I'd hate him. But at 2.4M he's a bargain.

Good job DT.

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Old
07-02-2006, 09:03 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Frolov-Conroy-Cammalleri
O'Sullivan-Kopitar-Brown
Thornton-McCauley-Avery
Cowan-Belanger-Kostopoulos

Gleason-Blake
Sopel-Visnovsky
Norstrom-Miller

Garon-Laberbera

Scratches: Armstrong, Parros, Weaver


The average age on the Kings roster is 28. The estimated team payroll with the inclusion of the latest free agent signings, the rookies and the raises due to restricted free agents is set at about roughly $36-38M.

This lineup may rely too heavily on the youngsters, but I think it is a safe assumption that Kopitar and O'Sullivan are the two most NHL-ready prospects who are ready to step in. They have performed exceptionally in high levels of competition. With that said, I don't believe Lombardi is done and this won't be the opening night lineup for the start of the 2006-2007 season.
you guys forgot dan cloutier

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Old
07-02-2006, 10:32 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
I personally think he will strive from the changes and the addition of some leaders to the locker room will help mold Avery to become a better TEAM player. He will mature.
That's a huge stretch. Avery didn't mature playing with STEVE YZERMAN. You really think Rob Blake is going to turn him around?

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Old
07-02-2006, 10:49 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Quattro View Post
That's a huge stretch. Avery didn't mature playing with STEVE YZERMAN. You really think Rob Blake is going to turn him around?
Do you know what you're talking about? Avery wasn't as brash on the Wings as he was on the Kings. He was on a try-out as a training camp invite, earned himself a pro contract and worked his way on the Wings roster while Scotty Bowman was coaching them.

If you bothered to watch "The Season" on ESPN when they covered the Red Wings, you'd realize that Avery was well-liked and Bowman saw him as an asset. In LA, Avery clashed with the coaches and had nobody tame him (besides Norstrom a couple of times). Avery is said to be VERY vocal and it upset teammates when he started questioning the effort of some of his teammates.

After interviewing the players and staff, why did Lombardi elect to retain Sean Avery? Before opening your mouth, let's see how Avery responds this season playing under a new coaching staff and with more leaders in the locker room.

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07-02-2006, 11:01 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Do you know what you're talking about? Avery wasn't as brash on the Wings as he was on the Kings. He was on a try-out as a training camp invite, earned himself a pro contract and worked his way on the Wings roster while Scotty Bowman was coaching them.

If you bothered to watch "The Season" on ESPN when they covered the Red Wings, you'd realize that Avery was well-liked and Bowman saw him as an asset. In LA, Avery clashed with the coaches and had nobody tame him (besides Norstrom a couple of times). Avery is said to be VERY vocal and it upset teammates when he started questioning the effort of some of his teammates.

After interviewing the players and staff, why did Lombardi elect to retain Sean Avery? Before opening your mouth, let's see how Avery responds this season playing under a new coaching staff and with more leaders in the locker room.
You just confirmed what I said. He didn't mature in Detroit, someone just sat on him. If he had matured, he wouldn't revert to being an @sshat when he got to the Kings.

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Old
07-02-2006, 11:19 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Quattro View Post
You just confirmed what I said. He didn't mature in Detroit, someone just sat on him. If he had matured, he wouldn't revert to being an @sshat when he got to the Kings.
Avery was 22 when he left Detroit. How many "mature" 22 year olds do you know?

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Old
07-04-2006, 12:38 PM
  #37
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I think that one of the best parts of getting Blake back in the room is that he has the nad to stand up to guys like Avery and put him in his place. It seemed like Avery was as surprised as anyone last year that he was allowed to run rampant without anyone trying to reel him in.

If Blake can get the captain's "C" from Norstrom then I think there will be a lot better attitude in the room and the Kings will show up in crucial games (unlike last year). Blake is a leader, while Norstrom "leads by example". Avery needs a hands-on approach, not the leads by example approach.

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Old
07-04-2006, 12:58 PM
  #38
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I think Blake wears the A. You don't take it away from Norstrom unless he gives it up. I'm hoping Avery doesn't need somebody to tell him to not act like a teenager. Some people just take longer to see the big picture, this guy can make some big bucks in the NHL by simply acting like a man. He should be watching tapes of Claude Lemieux, Esa Tikkanen, Pat Verbeek and Dino Ciccarelli and try to be like them then let the millions roll in. It will be interesting to see how much money Jarkko Ruutu gets cause Avery is definetely a better scorer but Ruutu is more of a team player thus far.

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Old
07-04-2006, 01:04 PM
  #39
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How do you become "less mature" as you age?
Thats easy, you werent mature to begin with.
Avery's clashes go far beyond Andy Murray and Brian Hayward.

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Old
07-04-2006, 03:22 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 35 and 14 View Post
How do you become "less mature" as you age?
Thats easy, you werent mature to begin with.
Avery's clashes go far beyond Andy Murray and Brian Hayward.
SO True... and I was adamant he wasn't coming back next season, and after the changing of the guard I had to back off a bit, but not entirely... I'm still not sold that members of the 2005-06 Los Angeles Kings that are still members of the 06-07 team want him in the picture. Time will tell, but I don't think there's any guarantee that Lombardi isn't looking to include him in any package that sends him far far away.

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Old
07-06-2006, 12:47 AM
  #41
Ziggy Stardust
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Edited to include the latest transactions. The Kings have about $39M committed to 25 players.

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Old
07-06-2006, 09:46 AM
  #42
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Daily Breeze listed the Kings at 31 million before signing their RFA's.

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Old
07-06-2006, 10:49 AM
  #43
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I'd like to see what the line of: Brown-O'Sullivan-Avery, could accomplish. I'm interested in knowing if Avery could really be a player in the league - or if he's all antics and obnoxiousness. I think he has the skills - maybe if the coaching staff as well as his teammates started expecting more from him, he'd really raise the level of his play to become the player that I believe he could be.

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Old
07-06-2006, 10:53 AM
  #44
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Say we're at 31, and we trade Belanger and Avery and Garon, that leaves us only Cammalleri to sign.

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Old
07-06-2006, 11:15 AM
  #45
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Here's your 2006-2007 Los Angeles Kings....

Frolov-Conroy-Cammalleri (We all know Frolov and Cammy had chemistry during last years preseason when they played with Roenick. Frolov's puck protection and Cammy open in the slot = goals.)
Brown-McCauley-Willsie (Brown in front of the net, McCauley is the playmaker, and Willsie tries to finish. Notice the tries.)
Thornton-Avery-Cowan (In your face, piss you off line.)
Parros-Armstrong-TK (Another in your face line with Army and TK generating some offense.)
Giuliano, Belanger (Both of these guys probably wont be on the roster come the season. Belanger getting dealt, and Gules in the Manch'.)

Blake-Gleason (Gleason learning the ways of the Dark Side from Darth Bubble Butt himself.)
Norstrom-Visnovsky (Lubo gets free reign on offense and doesn't have to worry about **** with Matty getting his back.)
Sopel-Miller (Goallum and the Man of Glass. Wicked tag team, or evil geniuses out to ruin or defense? Only time will tell.)
Weaver/Petiot (Stop gap and our only d prospect even close to the show.)

Cloutier (The Kings have an enforcer! Well not so much, but at least if theres a line brawl we wont have to sit there and watch him get pummeled like Potvin did.)
LaBarbera (The Big Show's look alike, who happens to be a decent goalie.)
Garon (Unfortunately, Lombardi has no faith in you son. You will be dealt to Chicago and steal the Bulin Wall's spotlight. You will bring hockey back from the brink in a great hockey city. Herby will rue the day we let go of you.)

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Old
07-06-2006, 11:27 AM
  #46
Ziggy Stardust
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I'm not sure how accurate the reported $31M figure is. The Kings were over $20M before any additions. They've added Blake ($6M), Cloutier ($2.55M), McCauley ($2M), Thornton ($1.5M), Willsie ($850K). Something doesn't add up.

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Old
07-06-2006, 11:29 AM
  #47
Matt13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
I'm not sure how accurate the reported $31M figure is. The Kings were over $20M before any additions. They've added Blake ($6M), Cloutier ($2.55M), McCauley ($2M), Thornton ($1.5M), Willsie ($850K). Something doesn't add up.

i think it's because certain players are in arbitration and so there numbers arent final.


these are the numbers that all the papers seem to be reporting on. It is from TSN

Rob Blake Signed two-year, $12 million deal $6 million
Mattias Norstrom $4.25 million
Dan Cloutier Acquired in trade from Vancouver $2.55 million
Brent Sopel $2.4 million
Craig Conroy $2.394 million
Aaron Miller $2.28 million
Alyn McCauley Signed three-year, $6 million deal $2 million
Alexander Frolov $2 million
Lubomir Visnovsky $1.9 million
Scott Thornton Two-year, $3 million contract $1.5 million
Nathan Dempsey $950,000
Jason LaBarbera $800,000
Derek Armstrong $760,000
Tom Kostopoulos $600,000
Jeff Cowan $532,000
George Parros $450,000
Brian Willsie Got a two-year deal Undisclosed


***Note that Dempsey is on there and Willsie is 850K

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Old
07-06-2006, 11:37 AM
  #48
Reaper45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt13 View Post
i think it's because certain players are in arbitration and so there numbers arent final.


these are the numbers that all the papers seem to be reporting on. It is from TSN

Rob Blake Signed two-year, $12 million deal $6 million
Mattias Norstrom $4.25 million
Dan Cloutier Acquired in trade from Vancouver $2.55 million
Brent Sopel $2.4 million
Craig Conroy $2.394 million
Aaron Miller $2.28 million
Alyn McCauley Signed three-year, $6 million deal $2 million
Alexander Frolov $2 million
Lubomir Visnovsky $1.9 million
Scott Thornton Two-year, $3 million contract $1.5 million
Nathan Dempsey $950,000
Jason LaBarbera $800,000
Derek Armstrong $760,000
Tom Kostopoulos $600,000
Jeff Cowan $532,000
George Parros $450,000
Brian Willsie Got a two-year deal Undisclosed


***Note that Dempsey is on there and Willsie is 850K
Adding those up, minus Dempsey, I get 31.266 committed.

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Old
07-06-2006, 11:39 AM
  #49
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Call me crazy, but I thought Frolov was getting 2.9?

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Old
07-06-2006, 11:40 AM
  #50
Captain Ron
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The Kings cap # without RFA's and Dempsey....and adding Willsie's contract is about $32 million.

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