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Cole's Plus/Minus: Pen(alties) vs. Devils - 2 big points lost

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Old
02-09-2013, 07:06 PM
  #226
Malkin4Top6Wingerz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
You know what's frustrating? Even the New Jersey Devils under GM Lou Lamoriello, notorious for over-ripening prospects and having them play the Devils way for years down on the farm...EVEN New Jersey has an 18-year-old first-round draft pick winger...playing on the top line, scoring his first today.

So. Frustrating.
They have also made their 4th overall pick from last year a healthy scratch for most of the season.

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02-09-2013, 07:08 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
You know what's frustrating? Even the New Jersey Devils under GM Lou Lamoriello, notorious for over-ripening prospects and having them play the Devils way for years down on the farm...EVEN New Jersey has an 18-year-old first-round draft pick winger...playing on the top line, scoring his first today.

So. Frustrating.
Took him 7 games to get that point. Boychuk has had that same chance several times, and has made some very big plays, they just never ended in a point. I have a feeling once he gets that first point, the flood gates will open. He is a really solid player.

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02-09-2013, 07:22 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
Maybe I missed someone getting a stick on the puck at center ice or a penguin clipping the puck after it exited the zone, but it sure seemed to me that an icing near the end went uncalled because there were 5 pens and 4 devils on the ice. Thing is, it was 4 on 4 plus the extra attacker for the goalie being out. Shoulda been icing.
I saw the same thing there.

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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
Yep. Exactly. I hate the argument that "they played bad" at the end of a game when they were on the PK for more than an entire period when many of the penalties not only looked like they weren't penalties, but the Devils were doing many of the same things and... shockingly... not getting called for it.

There was no flow and rhythm to the Pens offensive game after the first 10 minutes of the first period. It's not whining or complaining, just a fact.
I thought this was an accurate summary.

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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
I'm talking about the first 20-30 minutes. If Sid's RW is Iginla and Geno's LW is Kulemin, the Pens bury the Devils before they (with a first assist from the refs) bury themselves.
Outside of Iginla obviously being better than Dupuis and Kulemin being better than Boychuk, how can such a subjective conclusion be reached here? Which specific plays would you point to today and say, “yep, Iginla would’ve taken that to the net and buried it” or “Kulemin would’ve sprung Malkin for a breakaway there?” To me Geno looked like himself when he plays frustrated – constantly skating in circles with his head down trying to stick-handled through an entire team, while his teammates desperately try to think where he’s trying to go, and get to open space…for him to never pass to them because he’s frustrated.

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Originally Posted by TheSniper26 View Post
I understand we need help on the wings, but does every post game thread have to turn into excuse making for Malkin? He took dumb penalties that cost the team and it has nothing to do with Boychuk. He also plays with one of the premier wingers in the entire league. Would I like an upgrade on his left side? Sure. But that doesn't mean Geno shouldn't be held accountable for dumb decisions.
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Jiggy, this is the type of game where Sid having two third wheels for wingers and Geno and Neal having a guy who's not a roster player on half the teams in the league for a LW rear their ugly heads.

Sid needed someone to help make a play. Geno and Neal actually generated a lot in the first, only to have Boychuk do his Letang on the PP black hole impersonation.

Those two issues get addressed, and in a game like this Sid and Geno would've chased Marty in the first.

Rob Rossi ‏@RobRossi_Trib
#pens 2nd line LW slot this season is equivalent of clearing snow for car spot then having truck plow you in anyway. #TribHKY
To be fair, I’m on the boat for acquiring a top line winger, but this game in particular…I don’t think we can go back to every result that doesn’t go the Pens’ way and claim it’s due to their underlying problems that need to be addressed. Was it Boychuk’s fault Neal didn’t fire that great cross-ice pass into the net, and instead went back to Malkin with a mediocre pass? A lot of went wrong today seemed something unusually outside of the team’s control.

It’s easy for us to play the calm, level-headed hockey fan and say, “they should’ve been more disciplined.” The in-game fire and emotion that made the players react the way they did to the poor officiating is something that can never really be put into words by our calm, level-headed selves. How annoyed would you be if you were Malkin and you just had your hand slashed only to have some non-tough guy player engage you, grab you and pull you in, then when you push the person off you get called? I’d lose my head.

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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
They could win twenty in a row and I'd still be worried about the playoffs.... how Crosby and Malkin have to go into God mode to beat tight checking, if DB can make adjustments, keep his team disciplined, take advantage of line match ups, etc.

Until I see these things not being problems come playoff time, nothing in the reg season will convince me

It isn't morbid, just realistic.

Malkin and Crosby mask problems up front.
Fair enough.

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02-09-2013, 11:04 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
You know what's frustrating? Even the New Jersey Devils under GM Lou Lamoriello, notorious for over-ripening prospects and having them play the Devils way for years down on the farm...EVEN New Jersey has an 18-year-old first-round draft pick winger...playing on the top line, scoring his first today.

So. Frustrating.
Why is this frustrating? We are playing Despres and Bortuzzo...

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02-09-2013, 11:19 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Why is this frustrating? We are playing Despres and Bortuzzo...
Talking wingers here.

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02-09-2013, 11:20 PM
  #231
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Not much to like about this one.

I thought the refs ruined the game with all the calls. I'm not saying it was totally one sided or anything but it just ruined any rhythm or flow to the game. Devils eventually won the special teams battle. I give them credit. Hopefully they let the teams play a little more tomorrow.

I like our D with Bortuzzo and Despres in there. That is a big group with Despres 6'4", Bortuzzo 6'4", Engelland 6'2", Orpik 6'2" and Letang plays big despite his size. The only guy that plays small is Martin but he's a good player. Same goes for Niskanen.

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02-09-2013, 11:22 PM
  #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
Not much to like about this one.

I thought the refs ruined the game with all the calls. I'm not saying it was totally one sided or anything but it just ruined any rhythm or flow to the game. Devils eventually won the special teams battle. I give them credit. Hopefully they let the teams play a little more tomorrow.

I like our D with Bortuzzo and Despres in there. That is a big group with Despres 6'4", Bortuzzo 6'4", Engelland 6'2", Orpik 6'2" and Letang plays big despite his size. The only guy that plays small is Martin but he's a good player. Same goes for Niskanen.
I expect Dumoulin (6'3 210) to push hard for a spot next year, so there'll be even more size and strength on the back end.

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02-09-2013, 11:23 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Talking wingers here.
Which deserving prospect wingers are we not giving opportunities to?

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02-09-2013, 11:24 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Which deserving prospect wingers are we not giving opportunities to?
THAT's the frustration.

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02-09-2013, 11:25 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by Zen Arcade View Post
I expect Dumoulin (6'3 210) to push hard for a spot next year, so there'll be even more size and strength on the back end.
Yeah, it's nice to see.

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02-09-2013, 11:57 PM
  #236
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This is from what I saw on the box score before falling back to sleep (it was too early for me).....

- Discipline. Fellas, just stay the heck out of the Sin Bin and grow the bloody hell up.

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02-10-2013, 12:16 AM
  #237
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Xin Nian Kuai Le. Last night was Chinese New Year. Good times lasted 10 minutes.

Gotta say that I am not as frustrated about individual performances as I am scared that DB will not have a plan B. Once New Jersey clamped down on the stretch pass on the wall and had their systematic interference thing going, we lost our way. Refs contributed in the early goings by banning an aggressive forechecking (Vitale penalties were ridiculous) and when we didn't ice the puck, Brodeuer is too great at handling the puck to rely on dump and chase.
Geno is lambasted here because of penalties and at least one was dumb, but he was otherwise awesome, and was the only reason we were dangerous in the last two periods. If only DB could understand that Boychuck is miscast on that line entirely.

Many talk of defenders playing poorly. Please. Despres, Bort and Martin were superb. Reese OK and Orpik was too except for a blown coverage on their equalizer. Engelland had a stinker though.
The problem was too many penalties and our inability establish extended zone time.

Ultimately you can also say that we were beaten by a good team that had us take too many penalties with Marty playing a hell of a game, while being without Letang and getting the brunt of the bad calls and non-calls against us.
It isn't all bad that we have them again immediately, because I want to see Bylsma adjust in this one. And more than anything, I want Jeffrey back with Malkin. Not because that is a panacea, but simply because it is stupid to not see that Boychuck is a bad fit for that line. 5 games with no ES production now, and the plan simply cannot be for two elite players to create for a snake bitten waiver pickup. Stop it!

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02-10-2013, 12:19 AM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
THAT's the frustration.
I certainly don't regret not taking Stefan Matteau. The goal isn't to promote wingers the quickest to the NHL, it's to end up with the best NHL players.

I really have no idea why Matteau would make anybody frustrated with the Pens situation.

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02-10-2013, 01:36 AM
  #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
I certainly don't regret not taking Stefan Matteau. The goal isn't to promote wingers the quickest to the NHL, it's to end up with the best NHL players.

I really have no idea why Matteau would make anybody frustrated with the Pens situation.
I think it's more that DB has played vets over young guys for years, so we never develop forwards.

As Jiggy has explained numerous times, Tangradi should have been on the 4th line for at least a year, learning the NHL game. Insetad you saw the Park's and Adams' of the world get regular shifts instead of him.

That plus Shero having almost no NHL caliber forward prospects in the system. Maybe we can convert a few of out plethora of D prospects into a scoring winger!

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02-10-2013, 01:51 AM
  #240
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Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
I think it's more that DB has played vets over young guys for years, so we never develop forwards.

As Jiggy has explained numerous times, Tangradi should have been on the 4th line for at least a year, learning the NHL game. Insetad you saw the Park's and Adams' of the world get regular shifts instead of him.

That plus Shero having almost no NHL caliber forward prospects in the system. Maybe we can convert a few of out plethora of D prospects into a scoring winger!
I think it's more that our forward prospects just haven't been very impressive, particularly since none of them have gone on to do anything of note elsewhere.

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02-10-2013, 02:34 AM
  #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
You know what's frustrating? Even the New Jersey Devils under GM Lou Lamoriello, notorious for over-ripening prospects and having them play the Devils way for years down on the farm...EVEN New Jersey has an 18-year-old first-round draft pick winger...playing on the top line, scoring his first today.

So. Frustrating.
Everybody scores their first on the Pens.

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02-10-2013, 03:24 AM
  #242
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I am warming up to demand even up calls tomorrow. Same idiotic refs or not, I will be calling for them and loudly booing every check by the boards by the devils, every borderline interference call, everytime a devil player breathes near a Pens' player, that goes uncalled. The refs can do a few make up calls if they wish if we get ahead by three or so goals with two minutes left in the game.

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02-10-2013, 03:35 AM
  #243
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I like Boychuck, he has speed, he has determination, he plays without fear (for example ET, it was obvious he played with psychological weight on his shoulders), he doesn't want to waste chances he is given. But he doesn't read game the same way with Geno and Neal. That's the problem. And I did like Geno in first 2 periods. There was several good shifts that could resulted in goals. Not that I'm saying I'm satisfied with his game, but I saw several sparkles in his game which reminded me his last season performance.
And of course penalties. It's impossible to avoid this problem. It has to be cured without delay. I wonder do coaches talk with him about it. On WC he didn't have that problem despite multiple provocative efforts of his opponents

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02-10-2013, 03:39 AM
  #244
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Yeah, Geno needs to keep his emotions in check. He has a hothead rep now, and teams are goading him into stupid penalties. That said the Pens I am sure have talked to him about this multiple times and if it has not sunk in by now it never will. It is just something we will have to put up with along with all the good that comes with his game.

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02-10-2013, 04:00 AM
  #245
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Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
Yeah, Geno needs to keep his emotions in check. He has a hothead rep now, and teams are goading him into stupid penalties. That said the Pens I am sure have talked to him about this multiple times and if it has not sunk in by now it never will. It is just something we will have to put up with along with all the good that comes with his game.
It can be cured and cured easily. The coach of NT is very sensitive to unnecessary penalties, he doesn't give liberties in this question even to star players. May be that's why Malkin got 4 min in 10 games. He didn't answer even after Franzen jumped on him and gave him a bunch of strikes into his head (btw Malkin scored a goal on Franzen's penalty)

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02-10-2013, 05:16 AM
  #246
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We all talk about the magic winger. But we REALLY need our bottom 6 to chip in more offensively. Ok, 4th line i dont really care as long as they keep banging players and play sound defense.

3rd line however... Come on. Ok, Sutter i can give a pass since hes new and have looked like hes finding his way lately (6 points atm (3+3). But Kennedy with 2 points (1+1) and Cooke with 4 (2+2) really needs to chip in now and then.

This problem gets masked pretty well when crosbys and/or Malkins line are on fire like last week. But when they hit a slump it becomes even more obvious that our 3rd line has to produce more.

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02-10-2013, 08:29 AM
  #247
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Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
Not much to like about this one.

I thought the refs ruined the game with all the calls. I'm not saying it was totally one sided or anything but it just ruined any rhythm or flow to the game. Devils eventually won the special teams battle. I give them credit. Hopefully they let the teams play a little more tomorrow.

I like our D with Bortuzzo and Despres in there. That is a big group with Despres 6'4", Bortuzzo 6'4", Engelland 6'2", Orpik 6'2" and Letang plays big despite his size. The only guy that plays small is Martin but he's a good player. Same goes for Niskanen.
Hopefully the refs don't go complete opposite and call nothing creating an interference and holding fest.

I love the potential in these guys, but they scare the heck out of me sometimes. They tend to try to skate the puck out of the zone too many times, sometimes looping back in the zone, with a simple clear out to center would suffice.

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02-10-2013, 08:51 AM
  #248
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I threw a party for the game. Bad idea.

You expect hockey to be fun and exciting to watch. Instead we got to watch a documentary on the trials and triumphs of mediocre NHL officials, live. Chris Lee should be stuffed in an equipment bag for the next plane ride. I'm tired of seeing his name attached to every NHL abortion. How many games does this guy get to screw up? Is the union really the boss?

After a game/performance like that the NHL ought to take both of those clowns and force them to wrestle in a pink slip on a pole match -WWE style. At least give us something for the 3 hours they sucked away.

Penguins can get their revenge today. That is all that matters.

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02-10-2013, 09:04 AM
  #249
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Originally Posted by gogasson View Post
Hopefully the refs don't go complete opposite and call nothing creating an interference and holding fest.

I love the potential in these guys, but they scare the heck out of me sometimes. They tend to try to skate the puck out of the zone too many times, sometimes looping back in the zone, with a simple clear out to center would suffice.
Yeah, I agree. I just love their size. It's nice to be able to ice a fairly physically imposing D-Corps like that.

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02-10-2013, 09:40 AM
  #250
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Originally Posted by deakka View Post
We all talk about the magic winger. But we REALLY need our bottom 6 to chip in more offensively. Ok, 4th line i dont really care as long as they keep banging players and play sound defense.

3rd line however... Come on. Ok, Sutter i can give a pass since hes new and have looked like hes finding his way lately (6 points atm (3+3). But Kennedy with 2 points (1+1) and Cooke with 4 (2+2) really needs to chip in now and then.

This problem gets masked pretty well when crosbys and/or Malkins line are on fire like last week. But when they hit a slump it becomes even more obvious that our 3rd line has to produce more.
Try Boychuk in TK's spot? I don't know, I don't like benching TK. He had a good game a few days ago and I want him working out his problems. But maybe getting sat for a game could do him some good. The 4th line is hard to argue against right now. They don't score, but they are doing a great job with puck possession and even drawing penalties pretty often. Glass and Adams really are both offensive black holes though

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