Espo
Clarke
Lafleur
Gretzky
Lemieux
Trottier
Bossy
Messier
Sakic
Yzerman
That's 10 already, and I've only listed Canadians from the last 40 years. Throw in the Original 6 and European stars and there's probably 20+ forwards better than Selanne.
Exactly. Jagr has a hard enough time entering the conversation, and he has 3 Ted Lindsay and 5 Art Ross trophies to his credit. Sorry Teemu, you're a bit farther down the list than that, let alone 10th.
Exactly. Jagr has a hard enough time entering the conversation, and he has 3 Ted Lindsay and 5 Art Ross trophies to his credit. Sorry Teemu, you're a bit farther down the list than that, let alone 10th.
Jagr hasnt hard time there.
Gretz, Mario, Howe and who else? maybe rocket. you can argue for the rest.
Remember, this is a player with a relatively empty individual trophy-case (he led the league in goals two times; no other individual awards or accomplishments). And only 1 Stanley Cup (as opposed to multiple Stanley Cups by other players).
I don't see how any of these arguments work against an individual hockey player. Jagr, Lemieux, Gretzky all played at the same time with the Finnish Flash. They're all considered a top 10 forwards of all time. Same goes with the Stanley Cup wins, Teemu wasted his best years with horrendous Mighty Ducks team.
hes close if you look at the all time scoring list he's 5 points short of 15th, and there's 2 d-men in there so he's 13th among forwards. recchi is in there selanne is better than him and better than mikita IMO so that bring him to 11th... if he's not top 10 he's top 15 or at the very least top 20
hes close if you look at the all time scoring list he's 5 points short of 15th, and there's 2 d-men in there so he's 13th among forwards. recchi is in there selanne is better than him and better than mikita IMO so that bring him to 11th... if he's not top 10 he's top 15 or at the very least top 20
I'd love to hear how he's better than Mikita. Also going on scoring lists is pretty unfair, are you suggesting Selanne>Richard? Because that's insane.
Just a terrific and well thought out response. BTW he's right Selanne isn't even a sure bet to be a top 50 forward. People forget about some of these guys but there are players like Sittler, Keon, Cournoyer, Gefferion, Hawerchuck, Bucyk, Kurri, Francis, Bure, Kelly, Shutt, Lafleur, Lach, Morenz, ect... that are very arguably in his range of greatness (or well above). I could list 50 or close to it players that were better or at least arguably better than Selanne. I can't believe how overrated he is if people think he's close to top 10.
hes close if you look at the all time scoring list he's 5 points short of 15th, and there's 2 d-men in there so he's 13th among forwards. recchi is in there selanne is better than him and better than mikita IMO so that bring him to 11th... if he's not top 10 he's top 15 or at the very least top 20
How about all the people below him he's not better than?
Yeah, because anyone can just keep on playing and keep on racking up points well into their 40s, points are meaningless since anyone can score goals.
It's all about players prime and how DOMINANT they were, amirite? Points total are completely meaningless
Yes because the era a player played in has no impact as to how his scoring totals will look like. Dominance is relative to the era they played in. Selanne isn't even close to being one of the most dominant players of all time. For example only a complete idiot would argue Ron Francis is top 10 or better than Beliveau, by your logic he is though. Selanne is an amazing player who belongs in the Hall of Fame, does that make him a top 10 player? No. Given the vast history of the NHL it doesn't even ensure him a spot in the top 50 forwards of all time, although i think he'd probably crack the top 50. That is no insult, nor is it paramouint to dismissing his terrific resurgance in his latter years.
Just a terrific and well thought out response. BTW he's right Selanne isn't even a sure bet to be a top 50 forward. People forget about some of these guys but there are players like Sittler, Keon, Cournoyer, Gefferion, Hawerchuck, Bucyk, Kurri, Francis, Bure, Kelly, Shutt, Lafleur, Lach, Morenz, ect... that are very arguably in his range of greatness (or well above). I could list 50 or close to it players that were better or at least arguably better than Selanne. I can't believe how overrated he is if people think he's close to top 10.
I'm not thinking Selänne is a top 10 forward, but get out of here! Lafleur is the only one on that list that is better and it is not a big difference. This is not only about NHL, also about international play. This is also about career, not only peak or prime. I think Selänne is definitely in top 20, if not top 15.
Even if Selanne went into Godzilla-mode this season and won both Art Ross and Hart trophy, it still would account for very little in the minds of most posters, it seems, since longevity is just a nice bonus for players. What HFboards really seem to value only is how good players were in their prime. God I begin to hate that word, "prime".
And no, I don't think Selanne is top 10 forward all time, 20-30 at best.
Yes because the era a player played in has no impact as to how his scoring totals will look like. Dominance is relative to their era.
Yes...and we are talking about a guy who played through all of the dead puck, defense first era. This means his adjusted stats will look even better when he is done with his career. He also played through an era with very stiff competition at forward, hence not many personal titles. Team achievements on the other hand are team achievements and don't hold that much water.
Dominance is relative to the era they played in.
