HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Buffalo Sabres
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Miller and Vanek carrying 18 bums

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-10-2013, 04:09 AM
  #76
jBuds
pretty damn valuable
 
jBuds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: NYC Suburbs
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 27,355
vCash: 500
and finally, I've mustered up enough patience to lay out a GBU for the game (as best as possible)

Bueno:

- Miller standing tall, especially as the game went on. I thought the first period was a bit misleading statistically, in that it was clear Capuano wanted his team to get shots on goal. They were going NHL10 style, just firing towards the net from everywhere, mostly the outside. The quality chances in the second and third could've easily blown the game open, and as he got bombarded more and more, he got better and better. This is the goaltender we should see nightly

- Vanek continues his Marshawn Lynch beastmoding

- Hodgson played very well in all three zones, and his save on the Moulson chance basically won the game if you want to be meticulous

Malo:

- Weber didn't play well. He had a nice stretch of decent games prior to this, but this was a turnover fest and panic-city

- that we got outshot 3:1 and still won the game worries me, in that I PRAY the team is cognizant of how embarrassing the performance was from everyone not named in the Bueno above

Feo:

- all of our defensemen, in addition to being sliced and diced and cut through so easily, were just constantly coughing the puck up the boards to nobody in white

- this might be a reach to some, but I think it has merit: the team looks sad. As in, they look upset, disinterested, and like they're fulfilling chore duty. I pin this on the coach. He seems to have sucked all of the fun out of it. (too much of a reach for blaming Ruff?)

- thoroughly dominated by a roster that, on paper, is far inferior

- 1:39 of ice for Scott. One shift in the first, one in the second. To me, a game against the Islanders in which you know there will be no goonery, is a game you dress McCormick in his stead, hoping he can give you a good PK or two, or apply some pressure on the forecheck since he knows how to skate somewhat (and much, much, much more so than BJS)

- 25 minutes for Leopold is awful decision making by whomever rolled out the D. I understand this game could be considered Norris caliber for him if you compare it to every other game this year, but in no earthly world does he deserve to be hovering over 20 minutes on the ice in 2013

- Ennis 5 of 13 on draws LOL...goes 4 of 7 against JT, but 1 for 6 against the other 4 guys. He IS gongshow hockey....#wicked #beaut #5ched

- annnnd Hecht, Ruff's BOY TOY...4 of 9 at the dot


No joke, my stomach hurt physically after this game. Steam was coming out of my ears, and my mind told me to turn it off even in a tie game. Obviously, the heart prevailed and it stayed on...but...my, oh my, am I glad I didn't spend money to attend this one.


Last edited by jBuds: 02-10-2013 at 04:18 AM.
jBuds is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-10-2013, 04:17 AM
  #77
Stop Winnin
TANK ON BOYS
 
Stop Winnin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Buffalo
Posts: 8,703
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
I think that - if you want to pin the downfall of a player on his linemate or linemates - you have the strongest case in Ennis, not Foligno (and certainly not Drew Stafford). Ennis exploded at the end of last year due in large part to the time and space that Foligno and Stafford created for him by working the walls after getting the puck in deep and grinding it out on the forecheck. Because of the forecheck, and the idea of the two big bodies coming at opponents at full speed early in games had opposing dmen backing off a bit as games went on, Ennis was able to carry the puck more freely as games elapsed...and you saw Ennis charge up ice and lead the attack. That aspect is completely gone from that line, and Ennis is seemingly suffering.

That's not to justify Tyler's lackluster play. Like I said above, the three of them have their individual issues/deficiencies that extend beyond the trio as a line. Ennis looks a lot more hesitant and tentative, Foligno looks complacent, and Stafford looks abysmal across the board.

Side rant:

To Drew, from jbuddy -

You get paid to score goals. You get paid a lot of money to score goals. Try producing some offense? All I want out of Foligno at this point is effort. He's young, so I won't get on him for only having one goal through 12 gp. You have no excuse for piss poor showings and lazy, disinterested offerings at this point in your career; the rollercoaster ride that is your on-ice play is maddeningly frustrating, considering that you're blessed with a combo of size, strength, great hands, a good shot, and pretty decent vision when peaking.

WAKE THE **** UP.
Amen brother. C'mon buddy, we're 12 games in now. It's about time that you provide some secondary scoring that you're always talking about seeing as you're supposed to be the main source of it. Every year, same story, start off like **** and catch fire later.

I want to see him with a different coach.

Stop Winnin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-10-2013, 04:43 AM
  #78
jflory81
Irken Elite
 
jflory81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 20,865
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to jflory81
Quote:
Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
I'd agree with you if Foligno didn't show his capabilities last year when he motors. He doesn't have to do much else - JUST LOOK LIKE YOU ARE TRYING. He looks disinterested and tries to do too much with the puck. Problem is, he tries to do things at half speed or standing still. It is tough to watch. No free passes if you take several of your shifts off. Even the kids. All I want to see is effort.
Bang on. I can't count the number of times Foglino had the puck come to him tonight while he was standing still, and couldn't do anything with it. He's got to be a north/south player. Enough dangling, get the puck to the red, chip it in, and go like **** after it.

Although I've had plenty of problems with Ennis's and Stafford's play as well. That entire line is a train wreck offensively right now.

jflory81 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-10-2013, 04:56 AM
  #79
jBuds
pretty damn valuable
 
jBuds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: NYC Suburbs
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 27,355
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jflory81 View Post
Bang on. I can't count the number of times Foglino had the puck come to him tonight while he was standing still, and couldn't do anything with it. He's got to be a north/south player. Enough dangling, get the puck to the red, chip it in, and go like **** after it.

Although I've had plenty of problems with Ennis's and Stafford's play as well. That entire line is a train wreck offensively right now.
And considering they're far from "stellar" defensively as a trio, even when at the top of their game: trainwreck is apropos as an all around label.

jBuds is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-10-2013, 05:28 AM
  #80
Grinder44
Registered User
 
Grinder44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 164
vCash: 500
Just play five forwards at a time. It can't be any worse than it already is.

Grinder44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-10-2013, 08:08 AM
  #81
Lock3Boys
Ted's #1 Fan
 
Lock3Boys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Buffalo, NY
Country: Ireland
Posts: 1,381
vCash: 500
Not enough Hodgson in the Good around here.

2 assists, one of them a brilliant pass and to top it off he saves a sure goal against.

We don't likely win this game without Cody tonight.

Lock3Boys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-10-2013, 08:12 AM
  #82
jflory81
Irken Elite
 
jflory81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 20,865
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to jflory81
Quote:
Originally Posted by K McDude View Post
Not enough Hodgson in the Good around here.

2 assists, one of them a brilliant pass and to top it off he saves a sure goal against.

We don't likely win this game without Cody tonight.
Agreed. Cody was great. Even though Vanek got the secondary on the 2nd goal, that goal was all Hodgson and Ehrhoff. I've been really impressed with Hodgson's offensive game this year. He's certainly not a passenger on the line.

jflory81 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-10-2013, 10:15 AM
  #83
Zip15
Registered User
 
Zip15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 17,445
vCash: 500
Just watched on DVR. Pathetic showing. Fortunate to win. Second straight game that a crappy goaltending performance gave us 2 pts we probably didn't deserve. I'm finding it increasingly difficult to enjoy watching this group.

Zip15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-10-2013, 10:47 AM
  #84
RattleYourSabre
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 282
vCash: 500
Good:

-Vanek, Miller, Pominville (he didn't do anything necessarily to stand out, but that's part of why he was good )
-Hodgson won the game with that save. And the way he creates offensively is missed sometimes around here due to all the frustration. He's playing very well.

I don't feel like talking about the bad

RattleYourSabre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-10-2013, 11:07 AM
  #85
Vito_81
Registered User
 
Vito_81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,131
vCash: 500
Drew Stafford is a lost cause.

Vito_81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-10-2013, 11:29 AM
  #86
joshjull
Moderator
 
joshjull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamburg,NY
Country: United States
Posts: 33,851
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
at least you answered your own question about who the new whipping boy would be...
Huh?

I think you have me confused with someone else.

joshjull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-10-2013, 12:46 PM
  #87
joshjull
Moderator
 
joshjull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamburg,NY
Country: United States
Posts: 33,851
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
And I knew your response was going to be a completely inaccurate assumption that I'm basing my expectations on the points he produced down the stretch last year. Not even close. He showed what kind of player he is when he plays with energy, passion, and a punishing attitude on the forecheck. That's GONE.
I'm not just talking about his production. I'm talking about ALL the over the top expectations for him. Part of that is he would be a wrecking ball every game. I knew it wasn't going to happen. He's in a tougher role and getting minutes he didn't get last year.

The idea that he doesn't care anyone more is fan hyperbole. He's struggling to adjust this year. it happens.

Quote:
If you think his effort this year is the same as it was last year, you're on another ****ing planet (a generic comment to anyone, not just you). If you think he needs Stafford to initiate the cycle in order for him to move his feet... or if Stafford has any bearing on him simply chipping the puck in deep and getting after it instead of dipsy-doodling with it at the blueline flatfooted, I'm wasting my energy.
You know as well as I do that any player thats feeling confident is more likely to initiate play. Whereas one not that confident is going to be hesitant and thinking the game too much instead of reacting. Thats a horrible way for Foligno. to play (any player really) because of his lack of foot speed. He needs to keep his feet moving.

The difference in our opinion is about why he is hesitant. I say its lack of confidence you say he is lazy and doesn't care. I think your "reason" is absurd.

Quote:
We get it - you don't think Stafford is playing well. You're right. Foligno doesn't need Stafford at the top of his game to execute a dump and chase.
I agree that Foligno in the last several games gets too cute at times trying to skate his way in. But we have different reasons for that occurring as well.

Foligno did dump and chase with more frequency to start the season and what happened? More often than not little. Why? Because neither he nor his linemates were able to gain possession of the puck consistently enough to get a cycle going. He was also the only one at the time on the line doing much dumping in. Ennis and Stafford kept trying to skate through people and were playing "pond hockey". So Foligno started to try and create things by himself by trying to be a finesse player and skating through people. We both agree thats not his game.


Quote:
Dump the puck in.

Chase after it.

You said it yourself: his game is about getting the puck in low and working the walls. Stafford's turnovers aside, Foligno has done nothing remotely close to what he was doing when he was effective. And I'm ignoring production. Strictly effort and approach.

No slack gets cut if you don't work, no matter age or experience. He so blatantly looks complacent now that he has a permanent spot.


EDIT: you can "look lost at times" and "not know what to do in certain situations"...and still look like you're trying and putting forth maximum effort. He doesn't IMO
Why isn't he hammering people on the forecheck? Could it possibly be that he and his linemates aren't dumping the puck in thus greatly reducing his chances to to what he does best? That is stupid not lazy.

Also if his linemates are turning the puck over in the neutral zone, making extra moves in the neutral zone before entering the opposing zone or trying to carry the puck into the opposing zone instead of dumping it in. What does young Marcus need to do for you to show he is a hard worker? Skate really hard in a circle until his linemate finally makes a play? He does what most players would do in that situation, sort of float waiting for his linemate to make a play thus getting caught flat footed when the puck does comes his way.

That line, and Foligno in particular, would be so much more effective if they played a much more straight forward game and got the puck deep at every opportunity. If they were doing that and the table was set for Foligno to play his game. At that point if wasn't playing his game then you would have an argument that he is being complacent.


Quote:
EDIT2: I've been on Stafford's case since the second game of the year. But to blame him for the shortcomings of Ennis and Foligno is inaccurate. All three have their fair share of individual problems, culminating in an absolutely abysmal trio. When the line was broken up, each of the three looked just as ineffective as they do now when playing as a threesome
They do have their share of individual problems but Stafford is the one turning the puck over FAR more than the other two and is generally a none factor in most games. But here is the biggest part. He is the one that came into the season with almost 400 NHL games under his belt. He is the guy playing the same position he has his entire career and should be leading the two kids on his line. One who is a NHL rookie and the other playing his first season as a NHL center. They should be expected to struggle in their situations. Stafford on the other hand should not be the weakest link.


To be clear, I think Foligno's game needs work but the idea that he doesn't care is ridiculous to me.


Last edited by joshjull: 02-10-2013 at 01:14 PM.
joshjull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-10-2013, 01:28 PM
  #88
Old Navy Goat
Registered User
 
Old Navy Goat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Sin City Philippines
Country: United States
Posts: 6,090
vCash: 500
To me it seems that Ruff doesn't want nor preach an aggressive forecheck. He wants the forwards to pull back and play a passive quasi-trap. He only sends one in and then rarely do they go beyond the goal line. Its all very read and react vice letting the dogs loose and trying to create something.

Old Navy Goat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-10-2013, 02:11 PM
  #89
Zip15
Registered User
 
Zip15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 17,445
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vito_81 View Post
Drew Stafford is a lost cause.
He has to start scoring, but the exaggerations around here are startling. Guy's in a slump, but he's also one of three Sabres forwards (along with Vanek and Pominville) who have averaged over 2 pts/60 mins at 5-on-5 in each of the previous two seasons.

He's part of the problem right now, but he also has a recent track record suggesting he'll start producing at ES.

Zip15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-10-2013, 02:22 PM
  #90
Havok89
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,958
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
He has to start scoring, but the exaggerations around here are startling. Guy's in a slump, but he's also one of three Sabres forwards (along with Vanek and Pominville) who have averaged over 2 pts/60 mins at 5-on-5 in each of the previous two seasons.

He's part of the problem right now, but he also has a recent track record suggesting he'll start producing at ES.
He needs to start producing. Ennis needs a scoring winger if that line's ever going to get going.

Havok89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-10-2013, 02:27 PM
  #91
Zip15
Registered User
 
Zip15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 17,445
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Havok89 View Post
He needs to start producing. Ennis needs a scoring winger if that line's ever going to get going.
At ES, I think each of FES has been varying degrees of poor. One can ascribe blame in whatever proportion they want, but each has to get better if this team is going to contend for a playoff spot.

Zip15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-10-2013, 03:44 PM
  #92
Havok89
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,958
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
At ES, I think each of FES has been varying degrees of poor. One can ascribe blame in whatever proportion they want, but each has to get better if this team is going to contend for a playoff spot.
Absolutely. Ennis has not been good enough at ES. Foligno has been very inconsistant with his physicality and effort alltogether.

Havok89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-10-2013, 04:04 PM
  #93
Der Jaeger
Registered User
 
Der Jaeger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Northern Virginia
Country: United States
Posts: 2,013
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
He has to start scoring, but the exaggerations around here are startling. Guy's in a slump, but he's also one of three Sabres forwards (along with Vanek and Pominville) who have averaged over 2 pts/60 mins at 5-on-5 in each of the previous two seasons.

He's part of the problem right now, but he also has a recent track record suggesting he'll start producing at ES.
After 12 games, the team's issues, to me, are all about coaching. At some point, the leader's voice stops resonating. That's why military organizations, by design, change leaders sometime between 1-3 years. After that timeframe, with constant contact between leader and led, the message can grow stale. I think we're seeing that now in Ruff, and probably have for a long time now.

With off-seasons to separate the leader and the led in sports, time frames can expand. Personnel changes can also keep the coach's message fresh. The head coach, however, must succeed for his message to work. Bill Belichick's messages won't get old soon, because the guy constantly wins, and has won titles. Scotty Bowman did the same. Lindy Ruff is not of that ilk.

The Sabres "2016 possibility team" is loaded, or at least could be. If Regier resigns Vanek, Pominville, Stafford, and Miller, and most of the RFAs, the team looks great. VHP, FES, Girgensons-Grigorenko-Armia. Myers, Sekera, Ehrhoff, McNabb, Pysyk, and maybe JGL or McCabe. The team is constructed to play puck possession. Regier needs to add a defensive center and a physical defenseman, or at least one that's good in his own zone. That team could win a lot of games with the right coach.

Whenever I see disinterested teams or groups of any sort, I always look to leadership. Ruff could still be a good coach, but that's probably going to come somewhere other than Buffalo. I think his message is stale and isn't inspiring the players, and isn't resonating much. Too many underachieving players. It's time.

Der Jaeger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-10-2013, 04:38 PM
  #94
Newcastlesabre
Rookie User
 
NewcastleSabre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 106
vCash: 500
You can only shudder at the thought of losing Vanek or Miller at the moment, wheres the strength and depth.....

Newcastlesabre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-10-2013, 04:43 PM
  #95
Vito_81
Registered User
 
Vito_81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,131
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
He has to start scoring, but the exaggerations around here are startling. Guy's in a slump, but he's also one of three Sabres forwards (along with Vanek and Pominville) who have averaged over 2 pts/60 mins at 5-on-5 in each of the previous two seasons.

He's part of the problem right now, but he also has a recent track record suggesting he'll start producing at ES.
His track record actually shows that he is a guy who cannot be counted on to produce. Forget a slump, he's in a "Stafford'. This is what he is.

He's a guy who brings nothing on the scoresheet most nights. Which is fine if he's playing the 3rd line bringing a good two way game and adding in his offence every 5 games or so. He's not that player.

He's the vet "leader" on the second line with 0 goals in his past 15 games, Not gonna cut it. EVER

Let us look at last season. 50pts in 80 games, not bad.

Minus his super hot stretch late last season of 16 pts in 10 games, he'd have finished with 34 points in 70 games. NOT top 6 winger worthy!

45 game stretch last season= 5+14=19. NOT 4 million bucks worth.

He's a guy who plays at a 35 point per 82 game clip most of the season, yet salvages his numbers,making them appear to be decent with a hot stretch or two. Even at that, he's a guy who doesn't bring anything come playoff time.

A lot of players are streaky. And it all equals out in the end. My issue is that Stafford is cold way more than hot. And he brings nothing of top six value when he's cold as ice for weeks at a time.

On a team with more offence ahead of him to pull the load, he's golden. But for our team, which needs him clicking on a regular basis, he's not cut out for it.

He's not the 30 goal guy we saw two season ago. He's the 34 point winger who wasn't worth playing in the playoffs against Boston.

Vito_81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:12 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.