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Letang for a legit 1st line winger

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Old
02-09-2013, 08:24 PM
  #201
HappyGilmourr
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It's kind of funny a thread like this would get 200 replies... Letang is one of the least likely players in the NHL to get moved. You could put Colton Orr and and Colby Armstrong with Crosby and Malkin and they will still be a top 10 team offensively. Trading their best defensmen is beyond moronic.

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02-09-2013, 08:28 PM
  #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCPenguin View Post
Pittsburgh should have absolutely no interest in Kessel and wouldn't be interested in trading a Norris finalist for Kessel. Kessel wouldn't get it done straight up. No chance.
while I believe this is pretty stupid from the pens POV I think it would also be stupid from the leafs. Kessel is likely a 100 point player with Crosby.

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02-09-2013, 09:08 PM
  #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Open to interpretation, see below.


Don't believe the total return insults Pens. You got 2 all star D, a net of one additional high quality; also Pitt nets 2 useful Cs. You ignore both of these facts.
Being good players (and that's debateable on Boyle) does make them useful to Pittsburgh. Stepan isn't displacing Crosby or Malkin on the top 2 lines, and doesn't provide the skillset Sutter does as a 3rd line center. He has no position here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
As a result unarguably you do have a better D, and you have more depth. The transgression upon me is for varying outside the OP which sought a top W straight up. My prop asks you to think outside the box, consider you can repurpose some assets required and/or some assets you had which are NOW expendable, and come up with either a top W, or perhaps 2 significant Ws.

However, having been empowered by my suggestion, you then have to follow through and decide to what follow up you choose.
So in your world, the Penguins should still trade a 40 goal winger in Neal, for a defenseman, who is a very good player, to them either trade this defenseman or another defensemen on the roster to replace Neal?

OK. I have an additional proposal.

Neal for Girardi, straight up.
Then, the Penguins offer the Rangers Paul Martin for James Neal.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Letang approx = Staal
Girardi is most of Neal

Stepan + Boyle are known commodities, another fact you ignore, + with a second are not unreasonable vs. two firsts likely to be late.

You did not acknowledge that productive players have established worth. Picks obviously have value, but you still have to both hope they make it big, and almost without exception you have to wait for them to develop.
Tyler Kennedy has scored more goals in the NHL than the Rangers upcoming 1st round pick. Ray Shero will do you a favor and give Kennedy to you for the low, low price of 1 first round pick

Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Hey! Watch it or I'll have to call you for misconduct and unsportsmanlike.


If you prefer that instead of keeping all of them and putting, say, Malkin on W. Or just another example of the flexibility I created is you could move one of your D [supplanted by Girardi] for a sniper straight up, or add one of the Fs for presumably a better sniper, or two snipers.


That's also possible.
Staal + X for Letang + Y


That's your diagnosis, not mine. Physician, heal thyself.


I didn't say they do a straight up 1 for 1 swap, even though Pens would have slightly better D and Rangers would have better offense with expert puck mover. Rangers do not want to move their snipers, so came up with alternate values since you have scoring already, with the assets you acquire able to suggest getting 1-2 better Ws.



You lack a grasp of the obvious.
Tangradi past his prime <<<< than Stepan slowly entering his prime.

Surely, you are worthy of better comments...
First, Tangradi has never had a prime...just like Boyle! But that two year age gap between Tangradi and Stepan, clearly one has peaked and the other only just beginning.

You believe Boyle is worth a first in return since he was drafted in the first...


Last edited by spiny norman: 02-09-2013 at 10:57 PM. Reason: qmep
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Old
02-10-2013, 12:08 AM
  #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuburbanRhythm View Post
....
Quote:
Being good players (and that's debateable on Boyle) does make them useful to Pittsburgh. Stepan isn't displacing Crosby or Malkin on the top 2 lines, and doesn't provide the skillset Sutter does as a 3rd line center. He has no position here.
If you prefer Sutter to Stepan, fine Sutter stepping up, replaced by Stepan, enables Malkin to W. The main point I made was correct.

2 net additional players now provides flexibility and options for Pens to use NOW.

Some combo should add a scorer, maybe 2 while having improved D.


Quote:
So in your world, the Penguins should still trade a 40 goal winger in Neal, for a defenseman, who is a very good player, to them either trade this defenseman or another defensemen on the roster to replace Neal?
The original premise of the OP was if ever Letang, for what scoring W. Presumably at least 1 top one, or preferably 2 very good ones.

But it is hard to come up with a match. Snipers are at a premium. Letang for sniper often = rob peter to pay paul.

So I gave you proximate = value on Letang w/Staal,
Then I gave you fair value on Neal + picks, all but one being current players. You gave up extra higher futures, which you might expect to yield in a deal for a sniper, but you got players you can use/trade now + a pick.

That enabled you to replace Neal AND get additional replacement firepower. Remember some added value to the fact you have a complementary L-R all star pair in Staal - Girardi.

So that should explain it and answer your question. Yes.

Of course there could be a smaller deal only for Letang, no Neal.
But something with less components leaves less creativity to bring another one or even maybe two teams, to allow for side deals to bring back, and then add, more firepower.

That construct of only 2 teams is less likely to work, whether it is Rangers or another team.

Again, I'm not saying its not possible to come up with something between just 2 teams. But a 1 for 1, say Letang for Ducks Ryan, robs peter to pay paul.

My proposal could be win win. Pens get additional assets so they both avoid a hole on their D AND can make enough moves to replace Neal and add more offensive help.


Quote:
OK. I have an additional proposal.
Neal for Girardi, straight up.
Then, the Penguins offer the Rangers Paul Martin for James Neal.
Make the deal.
If Martin ever exceeds Girardi and NY has more firepower I'll consider it.

Quote:
Tyler Kennedy has scored more goals in the NHL than the Rangers upcoming 1st round pick. Ray Shero will do you a favor and give Kennedy to you for the low, low price of 1 first round pick
Non sequitur, and you know it.

Quote:
First, Tangradi has never had a prime...just like Boyle! But that two year age gap between Tangradi and Stepan, clearly one has peaked and the other only just beginning.
I withdraw the Tangradi comment --- I mistook for someone else.
Balance I stand by.


Quote:
You believe Boyle is worth a first in return since he was drafted in the first...
No, he's worth what the market will pay for him, which is based on on ability demonstrated to date, and short term projection of performance being either diminished, the same, or improved;;; AND the supply and demand of alternate talent, and the price paid for that talent based on what the seller will offer and the buyer will accept.

Multiple high picks + a second are worth two presumably late firsts.
Not sure what about that you don't get, unless you think Stepan would not return a first or a first plus, and Boyle will not fetch something proportionately smaller.
But multiple

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02-10-2013, 12:46 AM
  #205
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i would give you perry for letang

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02-10-2013, 12:47 AM
  #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malksby8771 View Post
Letang, Dupuis, and Harrington for Perry and Fowler?
fowler is going no where

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Old
02-10-2013, 12:52 AM
  #207
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Letang for Hemsky










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02-10-2013, 12:54 AM
  #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
If you prefer Sutter to Stepan, fine Sutter stepping up, replaced by Stepan, enables Malkin to W. The main point I made was correct.

2 net additional players now provides flexibility and options for Pens to use NOW.

Some combo should add a scorer, maybe 2 while having improved D.




The original premise of the OP was if ever Letang, for what scoring W. Presumably at least 1 top one, or preferably 2 very good ones.

But it is hard to come up with a match. Snipers are at a premium. Letang for sniper often = rob peter to pay paul.

So I gave you proximate = value on Letang w/Staal,
Then I gave you fair value on Neal + picks, all but one being current players. You gave up extra higher futures, which you might expect to yield in a deal for a sniper, but you got players you can use/trade now + a pick.

That enabled you to replace Neal AND get additional replacement firepower. Remember some added value to the fact you have a complementary L-R all star pair in Staal - Girardi.

So that should explain it and answer your question. Yes.

Of course there could be a smaller deal only for Letang, no Neal.
But something with less components leaves less creativity to bring another one or even maybe two teams, to allow for side deals to bring back, and then add, more firepower.

That construct of only 2 teams is less likely to work, whether it is Rangers or another team.

Again, I'm not saying its not possible to come up with something between just 2 teams. But a 1 for 1, say Letang for Ducks Ryan, robs peter to pay paul.

My proposal could be win win. Pens get additional assets so they both avoid a hole on their D AND can make enough moves to replace Neal and add more offensive help.



Make the deal.
If Martin ever exceeds Girardi and NY has more firepower I'll consider it.


Non sequitur, and you know it.



I withdraw the Tangradi comment --- I mistook for someone else.
Balance I stand by.



No, he's worth what the market will pay for him, which is based on on ability demonstrated to date, and short term projection of performance being either diminished, the same, or improved;;; AND the supply and demand of alternate talent, and the price paid for that talent based on what the seller will offer and the buyer will accept.

Multiple high picks + a second are worth two presumably late firsts.
Not sure what about that you don't get, unless you think Stepan would not return a first or a first plus, and Boyle will not fetch something proportionately smaller.
But multiple
The Rangers don't need Letang or Neal. They have Chris "Dave Keon" Kreider.

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02-10-2013, 05:56 AM
  #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
If you prefer Sutter to Stepan, fine Sutter stepping up, replaced by Stepan, enables Malkin to W. The main point I made was correct.

2 net additional players now provides flexibility and options for Pens to use NOW.

Some combo should add a scorer, maybe 2 while having improved D.




The original premise of the OP was if ever Letang, for what scoring W. Presumably at least 1 top one, or preferably 2 very good ones.

But it is hard to come up with a match. Snipers are at a premium. Letang for sniper often = rob peter to pay paul.

So I gave you proximate = value on Letang w/Staal,
Then I gave you fair value on Neal + picks, all but one being current players. You gave up extra higher futures, which you might expect to yield in a deal for a sniper, but you got players you can use/trade now + a pick.

That enabled you to replace Neal AND get additional replacement firepower. Remember some added value to the fact you have a complementary L-R all star pair in Staal - Girardi.

So that should explain it and answer your question. Yes.

Of course there could be a smaller deal only for Letang, no Neal.
But something with less components leaves less creativity to bring another one or even maybe two teams, to allow for side deals to bring back, and then add, more firepower.

That construct of only 2 teams is less likely to work, whether it is Rangers or another team.

Again, I'm not saying its not possible to come up with something between just 2 teams. But a 1 for 1, say Letang for Ducks Ryan, robs peter to pay paul.

My proposal could be win win. Pens get additional assets so they both avoid a hole on their D AND can make enough moves to replace Neal and add more offensive help.



Make the deal.
If Martin ever exceeds Girardi and NY has more firepower I'll consider it.


Non sequitur, and you know it.



I withdraw the Tangradi comment --- I mistook for someone else.
Balance I stand by.



No, he's worth what the market will pay for him, which is based on on ability demonstrated to date, and short term projection of performance being either diminished, the same, or improved;;; AND the supply and demand of alternate talent, and the price paid for that talent based on what the seller will offer and the buyer will accept.

Multiple high picks + a second are worth two presumably late firsts.
Not sure what about that you don't get, unless you think Stepan would not return a first or a first plus, and Boyle will not fetch something proportionately smaller.
But multiple
I guess we could go round and round forever, you'll never understand why this makes zero....no less than zero sense for Pittsburgh.

Taking all names out of the equation, please explain why Pittsburgh trades a 40 goal scoring winger, in a package, in hopes of then, down the line, finding a 40 goal scoring winger?

Additionally, if you are trying to help the Penguins "avoid a hole on their D", you don't move Letang in the first place!

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02-10-2013, 05:57 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
The Rangers don't need Letang or Neal. They have Chris "Dave Keon" Kreider.
And Staal...he's nearly the equal of Letang, in case you didn't hear.

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02-10-2013, 07:16 AM
  #211
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The point of talking about trade ideas for a guy that is going NO WHERE is pointless.

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02-10-2013, 10:39 AM
  #212
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letang for moulson straight up

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02-10-2013, 10:44 AM
  #213
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How about the Penguins just buy out Letang and let him walk? Bum

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02-10-2013, 10:50 AM
  #214
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Originally Posted by MPStoEberletoHall View Post
Something around Hall? Oilers then select Shinkuruk

Letang-Schultz
Smid-Petry
Klefbom-Marincin

Best D core in the future?
Huh? No.

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02-10-2013, 10:52 AM
  #215
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Originally Posted by startainfection View Post
letang for moulson straight up
you forgot your

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02-10-2013, 12:12 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by SuburbanRhythm View Post
And Staal...he's nearly the equal of Letang, in case you didn't hear.
You forgot about us needing Stepan, so that Malkin can play wing! By getting Stepan we would basically be getting that 40g winger in Malkin, hence Stepan=40g winger.

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02-10-2013, 12:44 PM
  #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
If you prefer Sutter to Stepan, fine Sutter stepping up, replaced by Stepan, enables Malkin to W. The main point I made was correct.

2 net additional players now provides flexibility and options for Pens to use NOW.

Some combo should add a scorer, maybe 2 while having improved D.




The original premise of the OP was if ever Letang, for what scoring W. Presumably at least 1 top one, or preferably 2 very good ones.

But it is hard to come up with a match. Snipers are at a premium. Letang for sniper often = rob peter to pay paul.

So I gave you proximate = value on Letang w/Staal,
Then I gave you fair value on Neal + picks, all but one being current players. You gave up extra higher futures, which you might expect to yield in a deal for a sniper, but you got players you can use/trade now + a pick.

That enabled you to replace Neal AND get additional replacement firepower. Remember some added value to the fact you have a complementary L-R all star pair in Staal - Girardi.

So that should explain it and answer your question. Yes.

Of course there could be a smaller deal only for Letang, no Neal.
But something with less components leaves less creativity to bring another one or even maybe two teams, to allow for side deals to bring back, and then add, more firepower.

That construct of only 2 teams is less likely to work, whether it is Rangers or another team.

Again, I'm not saying its not possible to come up with something between just 2 teams. But a 1 for 1, say Letang for Ducks Ryan, robs peter to pay paul.

My proposal could be win win. Pens get additional assets so they both avoid a hole on their D AND can make enough moves to replace Neal and add more offensive help.



Make the deal.
If Martin ever exceeds Girardi and NY has more firepower I'll consider it.


Non sequitur, and you know it.



I withdraw the Tangradi comment --- I mistook for someone else.
Balance I stand by.



No, he's worth what the market will pay for him, which is based on on ability demonstrated to date, and short term projection of performance being either diminished, the same, or improved;;; AND the supply and demand of alternate talent, and the price paid for that talent based on what the seller will offer and the buyer will accept.

Multiple high picks + a second are worth two presumably late firsts.
Not sure what about that you don't get, unless you think Stepan would not return a first or a first plus, and Boyle will not fetch something proportionately smaller.
But multiple
Your point may be correct in theory but why would the Pens move one of the best centers in the league to W, a position he's not nearly as comfortable playing? It also ignores why the Pens would want to break up one of the best 1-2 punches in the NHL in Geno & Neal AND their 3rd checking line centered by Sutter.

The Pens need tinkering, not a complete re-do of their entire roster. Regardless of whether you think you're offering a fair return this still makes absolutely zero sense for the Pens.

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02-10-2013, 12:46 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by bumperkisser View Post
i would give you perry for letang
Perry on an expiring contract is not worth Letang. If they were both signed to multiple year deals it would probably be decent value but the Pens still wouldn't do it. Players with Letang's skill set are too few and far between.

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02-10-2013, 12:53 PM
  #219
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Originally Posted by domaug View Post
you forgot your
Unfortunately, he didn't. That guy thinks every Islanders player is an all-star. I'm just surprised he didn't suggest the Pens would have to add to that package to land Moulson.

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02-10-2013, 12:54 PM
  #220
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Letang does not get traded unless it is for a huge overpayment.. even then I don't think Shero would pull the trigger.

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02-10-2013, 12:57 PM
  #221
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
Unfortunately, he didn't. That guy thinks every Islanders player is an all-star. I'm just surprised he didn't suggest the Pens would have to add to that package to land Moulson.
LOL, you mean like the new thread - Pittsburgh sends James Neal and Harrington to Winnipeg for Evander Kane only?

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02-10-2013, 12:59 PM
  #222
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Originally Posted by kratzbuerste View Post
You forgot about us needing Stepan, so that Malkin can play wing! By getting Stepan we would basically be getting that 40g winger in Malkin, hence Stepan=40g winger.
Now that I think about this more, move Malkin to wing AND keep Neal, and just trade Letang for Boyle. He's a former first rounder you know.

Boyle centers Malkin and Neal...voila...2 40 goal wingers!

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02-10-2013, 12:59 PM
  #223
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As much as we need D-Men, no way the Oilers would trade Hall or Eberle for Letang. It's just not happening

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02-10-2013, 01:30 PM
  #224
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Originally Posted by YesYesYall View Post
As much as we need D-Men, no way the Oilers would trade Hall or Eberle for Letang. It's just not happening
Pretty sure the feeling is mutual there. You'd have a hard time finding a single Pens fan who would pull the trigger on either of those two.

It's been said in here several times now but it bears repeating - the OP is a Caps fan. The Pens have zero interest in trading Letang.

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02-10-2013, 01:46 PM
  #225
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Rich Nash + conditional 2nd, the condition being Letang cuts his hair.

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