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02-10-2013, 09:03 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Lebanese Leaf View Post
Me and my buddy were just talking about the turn around in Leafs' talent development tonight. How guys like Wellwood, Stajan, Steen, Coliacovo, Tlusty constantly not living up to expectations is changing, and we are starting to see guys in our system actually rise up and even surpass expectations.

Feels Good Man.
It feels so good.

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02-10-2013, 09:05 AM
  #27
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Great thread as ever Interactif. Love reading any discussion about prospects & our scouts etc... sorry but who is Erne?

Also, Morrison was hired by...? Obviously Fletcher was at the table for Morrison's first draft. Any chance of any of the scouting dept being re-vamped in any way with Nonis at the helm? Certainly hope not but you'd expect Nonis to want to perhaps put some kind of a stamp on things behind the scenes.
The 2011 draft will yield Percy, Biggs, Sparks and Leivo all to the Marlies next year. Nilsson will hopefully be playing in the SEL, add these guys to D'amigo, Devane, Blacker, Ryan, guys from the 2009 draft and Ross and Mckegg from 2010. This is going to a great team to watch.

I am really high on Leivo, he was a 6'2 180lbs guy that has put on 11 lbs to 191lbs

I remember when we drafted him, Morrison was very high on him. He's one of Kitchener's top players since being traded to them this year, plays a power game with high skill, gets dirty, and is a fantastic teammate, always stands up for his mates. Joshua would have loved to have played in the game against the Habs last night. Cheers mate.

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02-10-2013, 09:10 AM
  #28
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What about Dave Broll?

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02-10-2013, 09:12 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Sundinisagod View Post
Morrison must have been pretty high on Schenn himself. From watching Behind The Draft, I think he says something along the lines of "I told you you are special" to Luke when he walked up to the stage...

...then again, Schenn did look good in his rookie season, he probably just needs to forget everything that Ron Wilson taught him and he'll be fine.
Did he say that? Interesting. Luke was good in his first year. I did recall us being interested in Cody Hodgson that year also. Wish we had a do over, but at the time I liked Schenn also.

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02-10-2013, 09:19 AM
  #30
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How about Burke leaving the kids in the AHL for the proper amount of time? Not rushing them like everyone wanted? Love how no one mentions that anymore.
Agreed completely. Especially with Kadri. Imo, Kadri wouldn't be the player he is today had he been handed an NHL roster spot. He's battled adversity and a lot of people, especially on this forum, labelled him a bust. I think playing a few seasons in the AHL with Eakins and the playoff run last yr has done him wonders. Obviously he's making smarter plays, he's stronger and a lot more mature. Draft and develop baby, don't just toss em to the wolves. Rielly too. I still love what Burke did for this organization

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02-10-2013, 09:25 AM
  #31
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I like to extend the definition of success to selecting professional players, including teams around the world in hockey nations.

Players who have a career in the SEL, KHL/RSL, FNL, ... are good picks. Players who graduate junior (any country) but are not good enough to play pro would be poor picks. Selecting players who play in the national leagues are good picks. Sometimes a player would rather be a top line player in SEL than a 4th. liner, depth defenseman in the NHL.

To me Tretiak was a better goaltender than Healy, regardless of how many wins Healy had in the NHL or how many games he sat on the bench with a Cup winner.

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He was the Leafs' leading scorer in the 196364, 196667 and 196970 seasons, and the team's top goal scorer in 197071 and 197273. Keon was considered one of the fastest skaters in the NHL, and one of the best defensive forwards of his era.[3] He would usually play against the opposing team's top centre, and developed a reputation for neutralizing some of the league's top scorers. In 197071, he scored eight shorthanded goals, setting an NHL record.
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02-10-2013, 09:30 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebanese Leaf View Post
Me and my buddy were just talking about the turn around in Leafs' talent development tonight. How guys like Wellwood, Stajan, Steen, Coliacovo, Tlusty constantly not living up to expectations is changing, and we are starting to see guys in our system actually rise up and even surpass expectations.

Feels Good Man.
Not all those players didn't live up to expectations, some were poisoned by a certain coach. Players that continue to play important roles in the NHL years after being drafted are not failed prospects.

Projecting success onto players is not actually achieving success.

Which players do you think are surpassing expectations? Presently, I cannot think of one in the NHL with the Leafs who is surpassing any expectations.

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02-10-2013, 09:30 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Did he say that? Interesting. Luke was good in his first year. I did recall us being interested in Cody Hodgson that year also. Wish we had a do over, but at the time I liked Schenn also.
I think it was in reference to moving up to 5th to land Schenn...

One thing that made me question Morrison as our head scout, the fact that he (or technically Fletch) moved up and paid handsomely to draft Schenn...while Schenn's defensive partner Tyler Myers would have been a far better selection and would have been available to us at 7 if we stood pat. We know that both Schenn and Myers would have received a similar amount of viewings from our scouting staff...
not that I knew Myers would have been the better of the two, in fact I did hear rumblings that Myers was on our radar at 7 but they might be just speculation from seeing our scouts watching Kelowna.

While Schenn isn't a complete bust or remotely close to that, I think that Mo might have learned a lesson from that draft, and that could be a reason why we didn't trade up to 4th overall this summer to grab Rielly...a lesson well learned I think.

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02-10-2013, 09:35 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Good night for our Head Scout, Dave Morrison.

Tyler Biggs scores his 21st and 22nd goal in his first OHL season.

Leo Komarov scores his first

James Reimer registers his first SO this season

Korbinian Holzer scores his 2nd goal of the season

Blacker scores 2 goals and assists on 1 in last 2 games

Jamie Devane scored his first goal as a Marlie this week

Add this to Frattin and Kadri's play this season. All Morrison picks.

Mr. Morrison is doing his job just fine.
Was Morrison in charge when Reimer and others were draft? That was JFJr's reign. Was Morrison his head scout?

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02-10-2013, 09:36 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Sundinisagod View Post
I think it was in reference to moving up to 5th to land Schenn...

One thing that made me question Morrison as our head scout, the fact that he (or technically Fletch) moved up and paid handsomely to draft Schenn...while Schenn's defensive partner Tyler Myers would have been a far better selection and would have been available to us at 7 if we stood pat. We know that both Schenn and Myers would have received a similar amount of viewings from our scouting staff...
not that I knew Myers would have been the better of the two, in fact I did hear rumblings that Myers was on our radar at 7 but they might be just speculation from seeing our scouts watching Kelowna.

While Schenn isn't a complete bust or remotely close to that, I think that Mo might have learned a lesson from that draft, and that could be a reason why we didn't trade up to 4th overall this summer to grab Rielly...a lesson well learned I think.
Good point, Stefanovich was a good lesson to draft character kids, we haven't gone this way since.

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02-10-2013, 09:37 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by kilgro View Post
Agreed completely. Especially with Kadri. Imo, Kadri wouldn't be the player he is today had he been handed an NHL roster spot. He's battled adversity and a lot of people, especially on this forum, labelled him a bust. I think playing a few seasons in the AHL with Eakins and the playoff run last yr has done him wonders. Obviously he's making smarter plays, he's stronger and a lot more mature. Draft and develop baby, don't just toss em to the wolves. Rielly too. I still love what Burke did for this organization
Burke laid a good foundation for this team. I think it was his impatience that ultimately did him in. The good news is that Nonis is a Burke disciple but is much more patient.

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02-10-2013, 09:38 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by birddog View Post
Was Morrison in charge when Reimer and others were draft? That was JFJr's reign. Was Morrison his head scout?
Yes, I think it was JFJ that hired Mo from the Canucks. Penny who was the head scout for vancouver for many years was with the Leafs at the time, I suspect this was the connection. But I don't recall exactly how he was hired.

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02-10-2013, 09:39 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by birddog View Post
Was Morrison in charge when Reimer and others were draft? That was JFJr's reign. Was Morrison his head scout?
Pretty sure 06 was his first draft as head scout. IIRC he was a scout with us before that but 06 first as head scout

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02-10-2013, 09:39 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Sundinisagod View Post
I think it was in reference to moving up to 5th to land Schenn...

One thing that made me question Morrison as our head scout, the fact that he (or technically Fletch) moved up and paid handsomely to draft Schenn...while Schenn's defensive partner Tyler Myers would have been a far better selection and would have been available to us at 7 if we stood pat. We know that both Schenn and Myers would have received a similar amount of viewings from our scouting staff...
not that I knew Myers would have been the better of the two, in fact I did hear rumblings that Myers was on our radar at 7 but they might be just speculation from seeing our scouts watching Kelowna.

While Schenn isn't a complete bust or remotely close to that, I think that Mo might have learned a lesson from that draft, and that could be a reason why we didn't trade up to 4th overall this summer to grab Rielly...a lesson well learned I think.

GM's typically have a much larger say in 1st round picks.

Fletcher wanted the safest prospect they could obtain, which was Schenn.

The Leafs were more adventurous under Burke, going after Kadri and Rielly.

We'll see how Nonis approaches this draft...

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02-10-2013, 09:43 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Sundinisagod View Post
I think it was in reference to moving up to 5th to land Schenn...

One thing that made me question Morrison as our head scout, the fact that he (or technically Fletch) moved up and paid handsomely to draft Schenn...while Schenn's defensive partner Tyler Myers would have been a far better selection and would have been available to us at 7 if we stood pat. We know that both Schenn and Myers would have received a similar amount of viewings from our scouting staff...
not that I knew Myers would have been the better of the two, in fact I did hear rumblings that Myers was on our radar at 7 but they might be just speculation from seeing our scouts watching Kelowna.

While Schenn isn't a complete bust or remotely close to that, I think that Mo might have learned a lesson from that draft, and that could be a reason why we didn't trade up to 4th overall this summer to grab Rielly...a lesson well learned I think.
Fletcher thought he had hit a home run with Schenn. That he was not is mainly on the scouting staff. It did not help his development that they burned the first year of his contract unnecessarily...that was on Fletcher himself mainly.

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02-10-2013, 09:43 AM
  #41
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Did he say that? Interesting. Luke was good in his first year. I did recall us being interested in Cody Hodgson that year also. Wish we had a do over, but at the time I liked Schenn also.
I take jvr over both right now

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02-10-2013, 10:09 AM
  #42
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Agreed completely. Especially with Kadri. Imo, Kadri wouldn't be the player he is today had he been handed an NHL roster spot. He's battled adversity and a lot of people, especially on this forum, labelled him a bust. I think playing a few seasons in the AHL with Eakins and the playoff run last yr has done him wonders. Obviously he's making smarter plays, he's stronger and a lot more mature. Draft and develop baby, don't just toss em to the wolves. Rielly too. I still love what Burke did for this organization
Agree 100%

Kadri is now a heck of a player and I think a lot of it is because he was left down in the AHL that extra bit longer. Better a day late then a day early.

I was also happy to see Rielly left down. Or the way that Nonis is handling Gardiner and letting him get through his post-concussion issues down in the A.

Burke inherited a team and organization in shambles, did make some mistakes but ultimately I thing that Burke should be remembered for restoring pride in the organization by not letting our players continue to get pushed around, beefing up the scouting and player development, making the players accountable, countless amounts of community relations (military, gay awareness, donating blood, sick kids, etc.). I'm still happy that we had him around to change the entire culture. The team that everybody is loving so far is Burkes team.

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02-10-2013, 10:57 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Guy Boucher View Post
GM's typically have a much larger say in 1st round picks.

Fletcher wanted the safest prospect they could obtain, which was Schenn.

The Leafs were more adventurous under Burke, going after Kadri and Rielly.

We'll see how Nonis approaches this draft...
I know Fletcher likes these types of defenders. He had a nice defense group here in his day with several Luke Schenn type players in Rouse, Macoun, Lefebre, Natress etc...

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02-10-2013, 11:13 AM
  #44
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Even when prospects haven't turned out for us, it's worth noting, we have turned Mitchell into Fraser, and Pateryn and a pick for Grabo.

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02-10-2013, 11:18 AM
  #45
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Agree 100%

Kadri is now a heck of a player and I think a lot of it is because he was left down in the AHL that extra bit longer. Better a day late then a day early.

I was also happy to see Rielly left down. Or the way that Nonis is handling Gardiner and letting him get through his post-concussion issues down in the A.

Burke inherited a team and organization in shambles, did make some mistakes but ultimately I thing that Burke should be remembered for restoring pride in the organization by not letting our players continue to get pushed around, beefing up the scouting and player development, making the players accountable, countless amounts of community relations (military, gay awareness, donating blood, sick kids, etc.). I'm still happy that we had him around to change the entire culture. The team that everybody is loving so far is Burkes team.
Kadri was absolutely the right pick in the 2009 draft at #7, lord knows we could have picked Glennie or Cowan.

Infact perhaps we lucked out not taking Brayden Schenn, though I still have a lot of time for him. Not sure how high OEL was on our list, Schenn or Kadri today would be an interesting discussion with how much progression Naz has shown this year.

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02-10-2013, 11:43 AM
  #46
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Even when prospects haven't turned out for us, it's worth noting, we have turned Mitchell into Fraser, and Pateryn and a pick for Grabo.
...and obviously Schenn into JVR

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02-10-2013, 11:50 AM
  #47
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...and obviously Schenn into JVR
No doubt, the best is still to come, Biggs, Leivo, and Percy are going to have an important role with the Leafs, and Marlies very soon.

Say it again, watched Leivo play in Kitchener since being traded there and he is probably their best fwd right now. This kid may turn out to be a steal at #86 in 2011.

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02-10-2013, 11:53 AM
  #48
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Did he say that? Interesting. Luke was good in his first year. I did recall us being interested in Cody Hodgson that year also. Wish we had a do over, but at the time I liked Schenn also.
I don't know about that do over...JVR is looking pretty darn good so far. I was skeptical of the trade at first but James has been very impressive.

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Good point, Stefanovich was a good lesson to draft character kids, we haven't gone this way since.
Yeah but sometimes you have to take a chance on those boom or bust types. It didn't work out for the Leafs in Stefanovich but I still think it was a good risk to take.

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02-10-2013, 11:58 AM
  #49
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Good night for our Head Scout, Dave Morrison.

Tyler Biggs scores his 21st and 22nd goal in his first OHL season.

Leo Komarov scores his first

James Reimer registers his first SO this season

Korbinian Holzer scores his 2nd goal of the season

Blacker scores 2 goals and assists on 1 in last 2 games

Jamie Devane scored his first goal as a Marlie this week

Add this to Frattin and Kadri's play this season. All Morrison picks.

Mr. Morrison is doing his job just fine.
Can someone clarify this for me? Are the Leafs hitting it big with players that went undrafted the year before?

Kulemin and Stalberg '86 drafted in 2006, Komarov early '87 in 2006, Frattin early '88 in 2007, Gunnarsson '86 in 2007, and I believe Stralman was eligible for the prior year as well.

Anyone got any insider info on why these guys went undrafted the first time or got drafted the 2nd, 3rd, 4th time around?

Regardless Morrison and the rest of the staff has done well.

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02-10-2013, 12:00 PM
  #50
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The 2011 draft will yield Percy, Biggs, Sparks and Leivo all to the Marlies next year. Nilsson will hopefully be playing in the SEL, add these guys to D'amigo, Devane, Blacker, Ryan, guys from the 2009 draft and Ross and Mckegg from 2010. This is going to a great team to watch.

I am really high on Leivo, he was a 6'2 180lbs guy that has put on 11 lbs to 191lbs

I remember when we drafted him, Morrison was very high on him. He's one of Kitchener's top players since being traded to them this year, plays a power game with high skill, gets dirty, and is a fantastic teammate, always stands up for his mates. Joshua would have loved to have played in the game against the Habs last night. Cheers mate.
Petter Granberg probably would have come over seas to play for the Marlies too had he not got hurt. And even now, there may be a chance he does it.

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