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Old
02-10-2013, 12:23 PM
  #476
Artemis
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Originally Posted by WhatsABruin View Post
I dont get all the Krejci hate

He was our point leader during the SC run and I believe he is our point leader now

I would trade away Ference before anyone else this season he has been horrible. Does he even have any points?
Ference has never been much of a scorer.

Frankly, I don't get ANY hate. But the constant "trade Krejci" refrain is difficult to understand. I sometimes wish we could have a sort of "Twilight Zone" episode, showing what the Bruins would be like without him, and then I remember that we DID, in 2010 against the Flyers. And even with the Cup win with Krejci as top scorer, people still want him gone. I don't get it.

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02-10-2013, 12:56 PM
  #477
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Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Ference has never been much of a scorer.

Frankly, I don't get ANY hate. But the constant "trade Krejci" refrain is difficult to understand. I sometimes wish we could have a sort of "Twilight Zone" episode, showing what the Bruins would be like without him, and then I remember that we DID, in 2010 against the Flyers. And even with the Cup win with Krejci as top scorer, people still want him gone. I don't get it.
How does that saying go? There's nothing I hate worse than a bad argument for a position I hold dear... (?)

The collapse against the Flyers was NOT your exclusive Krejci theory. Krejci was simply the last straw. A string of injuries on a team that couldn't score even when healthy. It wasn't "Krejci or Bust"... His injury was simply the ultimate hurdle that the Bruins could not jump.

No, the stronger argument is how he lead the team in scoring during a Cup Championship, a creative changeup to the rest of the lineup, and a team with an offense that is built through the center of the ice. He's a PROVEN guy, a good teammate and DAMN GOOD when he's flying. He's creative and sound in all three zones. An incredible fit for our team, he's also signed long-term to a contract that is more than acceptable for what he brings.

There are reasons that people look to trade Krejci sooner than others, but they (extremely) RARELY have anything to do with "hate." They many times, are the same reasons that I wish to keep him around. He's valuable. And if you are going to propose a deal and not look like too big of an idiot doing so, your best bet is to offer VALUE.

Like it or not, Artemis (I don't know if I will or not) - there is going to be a major change or two to this roster in the offseason. That change COULD be Dave Krejci (+).

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02-10-2013, 01:00 PM
  #478
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The whole injury excuse goes out the window at 3-0 game7. Not sure sure how that's continually overlooked and disregarded. Whatever helps you sleep I guess.
Plus it could have been no McQuaid. They were 0-4 without him too lol.

Team rebounded pretty good however.

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02-10-2013, 01:12 PM
  #479
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Why are we looking to upgrade our D? Our D is solid and i'm very happy with it. Trading a forward for a D makes no sense for us. It's offense we are lacking, if we are going to make a trade i'm hoping it's for a top 6 scorer, a goal scorer like B.Ryan.

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02-10-2013, 01:20 PM
  #480
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Originally Posted by The Dangley One View Post
Perry>seguin>Krejci

Yes it does
No it doesn't.

1. Perry will cost more than just Krejci.
2. Perry will cost $7+ million meaning we lose at least one other good player next year.
3. Krejci (and Seguin as a 20 year old) were as good as Perry last year and so far this year.
4. Krejci's 2, 3 and 4 year production is barely behind Perry as well and that is with less PP time for Krejci.
5. Krejci is younger, cheaper, a center, and we know he fits the system.

I'm not giving up Krejci + for either a rental or to sign Perry to a likely 7 year - $7+ million deal that also costs us other players.

He has 1 clear career outlier season so far which he followed up with a 60 Pt season and a slow start this year.

So it isn't clear that Perry > Seguin or that Seguin > Krejci or that we are a better team with Perry over Krejci.
We certainly aren't guaranteed to go any further with Perry over Krejci.
We clearly make ourselves worse after this year with a move like this.

Smaller unsung hero type moves work more often than huge moves at the deadline.

If you want Perry - sign him as a free agent (where I think he will be overpaid by a good amount).

Then if you want to trade Krejci or someone else you are adding assets back instead of losing Krejci plus assets.

If I'm trading Krejci, plus as many want to do it is for:

1. A clear upgrade, of which there aren't many and who very likely aren't available, who also has more than one "career" year, who is similar in age, and is signed multiple years at a contract on scale with production or -

2. A Philly-Columbus move for a younger cheaper player, plus picks. Ex.- Carter for Voracek, 1st & 3rd. That would give a player to replace a lot of Krejci's production, add assets, and allow us to keep the rest of team together or even add to it.

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02-10-2013, 01:23 PM
  #481
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Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8 View Post
The whole injury excuse goes out the window at 3-0 game7. Not sure sure how that's continually overlooked and disregarded. Whatever helps you sleep I guess.
Plus it could have been no McQuaid. They were 0-4 without him too lol.

Team rebounded pretty good however.
Really that whole series was just a lesson in the variability of a small sample. OT win, 1 goal win, comfortable win, OT loss, comfortable loss, 1 goal loss, 3 goal outburst, 4 goal slide. Move them all around and the series is no more memorable than any other 7 game series. A bunch of things happened too, Krejci went out, McQuaid went out, I know the Flyers had someone return, these things add up when the teams in question are close. Was it frustrating, disappointing, etc. Was it instructive to any extent regarding the personnel involved? Absolutely not.

And this is from someone who thinks there are far too many trade Krejci threads (DK is my favorite Bruin).

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02-10-2013, 01:26 PM
  #482
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Should be required reading around here.



David Krejci off to great start for Bruins

http://bostonglobe.com/sports/2013/0...x4K/story.html

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02-10-2013, 01:28 PM
  #483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Make-Believe View Post
How does that saying go? There's nothing I hate worse than a bad argument for a position I hold dear... (?)

The collapse against the Flyers was NOT your exclusive Krejci theory. Krejci was simply the last straw. A string of injuries on a team that couldn't score even when healthy. It wasn't "Krejci or Bust"... His injury was simply the ultimate hurdle that the Bruins could not jump.

No, the stronger argument is how he lead the team in scoring during a Cup Championship, a creative changeup to the rest of the lineup, and a team with an offense that is built through the center of the ice. He's a PROVEN guy, a good teammate and DAMN GOOD when he's flying. He's creative and sound in all three zones. An incredible fit for our team, he's also signed long-term to a contract that is more than acceptable for what he brings.

There are reasons that people look to trade Krejci sooner than others, but they (extremely) RARELY have anything to do with "hate." They many times, are the same reasons that I wish to keep him around. He's valuable. And if you are going to propose a deal and not look like too big of an idiot doing so, your best bet is to offer VALUE.

Like it or not, Artemis (I don't know if I will or not) - there is going to be a major change or two to this roster in the offseason. That change COULD be Dave Krejci (+).
I'm very aware that Krejci's injury wasn't the sole reason for Boston's loss, as I've made the cumulative arguement myself, many times. It's simply a way to underscore his value to this team, which IMHO goes beyond scoring. Sjaustin as usual has a good post, so I'll simply defer to him.

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Old
02-10-2013, 01:30 PM
  #484
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Originally Posted by MTaylorJ1 View Post
Really that whole series was just a lesson in the variability of a small sample. OT win, 1 goal win, comfortable win, OT loss, comfortable loss, 1 goal loss, 3 goal outburst, 4 goal slide. Move them all around and the series is no more memorable than any other 7 game series. A bunch of things happened too, Krejci went out, McQuaid went out, I know the Flyers had someone return, these things add up when the teams in question are close. Was it frustrating, disappointing, etc. Was it instructive to any extent regarding the personnel involved? Absolutely not.

And this is from someone who thinks there are far too many trade Krejci threads (DK is my favorite Bruin).
Don't think many knew it at the time and we did win a round and 3 games without him but Seidenberg was a huge loss before the playoffs.
Krejci was the last straw though while Philly got Gagne back at the same time

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02-10-2013, 01:32 PM
  #485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTaylorJ1 View Post
Really that whole series was just a lesson in the variability of a small sample. OT win, 1 goal win, comfortable win, OT loss, comfortable loss, 1 goal loss, 3 goal outburst, 4 goal slide. Move them all around and the series is no more memorable than any other 7 game series. A bunch of things happened too, Krejci went out, McQuaid went out, I know the Flyers had someone return, these things add up when the teams in question are close. Was it frustrating, disappointing, etc. Was it instructive to any extent regarding the personnel involved? Absolutely not.

And this is from someone who thinks there are far too many trade Krejci threads (DK is my favorite Bruin).
The leadership here may have had to go through that so they could get us through our two 0-2 2011 deficits. It happened and we learned from it. I rarely if ever think about it any more.

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02-10-2013, 01:41 PM
  #486
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Old
02-10-2013, 01:46 PM
  #487
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Originally Posted by The Dangley One View Post
Perry>seguin>Krejci

Yes it does
How do you expect to sign perry and horton while dumping krejci's salary.

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02-10-2013, 01:53 PM
  #488
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I like the Carlson idea but what do you folks think of Dimitri Kuilikov - I'm a fan, he's signed through next season and will then be a RFA. I'm wondering if he'd be cheaper to bring in from an asset stand point.

Just curious,
I hate to compare players because of their nationality, because I see a lot of people do it and its annoying and lazy, but kulikov looks like a young Sergei Zubov. Great offensive instincts that looks to be breaking out very soon. Carlson is no less of a dman, just brings a different skill set.

With Gudbranson pegged to be the futture#1 dman in Florida, I feel like kulikov is destined to be the future permanent #2. The Zubov to their Hatcher type situation even though gudbranson should be a good deal better than Hatcher.

So in my opinion, kulikov may cost the same or a bit more in my opinion.

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02-10-2013, 01:56 PM
  #489
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Originally Posted by WhatsABruin View Post
I would trade away Ference before anyone else this season he has been horrible. Does he even have any points?
I'm not worried so much about the points as the sheer amount of dumbass plays and decisions he is making out there.

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02-10-2013, 02:05 PM
  #490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
I'm very aware that Krejci's injury wasn't the sole reason for Boston's loss, as I've made the cumulative arguement myself, many times. It's simply a way to underscore his value to this team, which IMHO goes beyond scoring. Sjaustin as usual has a good post, so I'll simply defer to him.
Then you have a tendency to present the argument disingenuously. THAT team minus Krejci is a far sight different than THIS team minus Krejci.

Point stands (and I'll agree with you on it) that he is a very valued member of this team and NOT someone to look forward to losing in any transaction.

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02-10-2013, 02:05 PM
  #491
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I'm not worried so much about the points as the sheer amount of dumbass plays and decisions he is making out there.

"....And heres Ference with a bad pinch along the wall Jack, hes trying to keep the play alive and instead the Bruins are caught in a 2 on 1...."

Cant even count the amount of times ive heard Brickley analyzing a goal against like that.

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02-10-2013, 02:24 PM
  #492
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Originally Posted by Gee Wally View Post
Should be required reading around here.



David Krejci off to great start for Bruins

http://bostonglobe.com/sports/2013/0...x4K/story.html
Nice story, thanks for the link.

Now how did I know it was a Fluto story before I clicked on it?

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02-10-2013, 02:26 PM
  #493
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If we are looking at the stats, these would be our concerns:

Johnny Boychuk 9 1 1 2 5
Andrew Ference 9 0 1 1 -1
Dennis Seids 7 0 0 0 3
Adam McQuaid 7 0 0 0 2
Aaron Johnson 4 0 0 0 -2

Four of our top six defenseman have a combined point total of 3
Yes they need an upgrade on the backend.
Time for Ference to go. Carlson would be a good upgrade.

Chris Bourque 8 1 0 1 -3
Rich Peverley 9 1 2 3 -4

Bourque is not cutting it. That is simple to see.
Peverely may need to go. Too expensive for limited point production.

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02-10-2013, 03:07 PM
  #494
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If we are looking at the stats, these would be our concerns:

Johnny Boychuk 9 1 1 2 5
Andrew Ference 9 0 1 1 -1
Dennis Seids 7 0 0 0 3
Adam McQuaid 7 0 0 0 2
Aaron Johnson 4 0 0 0 -2

Four of our top six defenseman have a combined point total of 3
Yes they need an upgrade on the backend.
Time for Ference to go. Carlson would be a good upgrade.

Chris Bourque 8 1 0 1 -3
Rich Peverley 9 1 2 3 -4

Bourque is not cutting it. That is simple to see.
Peverely may need to go. Too expensive for limited point production.
We have also played the least amount of games. If we are looking at stats and especially just basing it on defensemen Pts over a 4 to 9 game sample, then all we are doing is playing fantasy hockey (and probably doing poorly). The last 1, 2, 3, plus years carry just a bit more weight than a small sample this year.

If we are going by points this year then we should be able to get Weber+ for Boychuk.

I know rash judgements over a few games will never stop but come on, Peverley is too expensive and may need to go? Get a grip. Yes there are players we can improve upon but it isn't based on a 9 game sample.

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02-10-2013, 03:15 PM
  #495
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Originally Posted by Gee Wally View Post
Should be required reading around here.



David Krejci off to great start for Bruins

http://bostonglobe.com/sports/2013/0...x4K/story.html
Which is great and all, but we've seen much longer periods of great play from Krejci before. We've seen him put this type of effort out before for an entire half season only to disappear in the latter half or vice versa.

Loved what I've seen from the guy for 9 games... want to see him keep it up for once.

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02-10-2013, 03:18 PM
  #496
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How do you expect to sign perry and horton while dumping krejci's salary.
It could work. Horton would have to take a bit of a discount. I know some people think perry is gunna get 7 mil+ I don't think so. Somewhere in the 6.5 -7.0 range. Right now he is really ******** the bed in Anaheim anyway. Also they could move Kelly if needed who is overpaid.

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02-10-2013, 03:19 PM
  #497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by remer View Post
If we are looking at the stats, these would be our concerns:

Johnny Boychuk 9 1 1 2 5
Andrew Ference 9 0 1 1 -1
Dennis Seids 7 0 0 0 3
Adam McQuaid 7 0 0 0 2
Aaron Johnson 4 0 0 0 -2

Four of our top six defenseman have a combined point total of 3
Yes they need an upgrade on the backend.
Time for Ference to go. Carlson would be a good upgrade.

Chris Bourque 8 1 0 1 -3
Rich Peverley 9 1 2 3 -4

Bourque is not cutting it. That is simple to see.
Peverely may need to go. Too expensive for limited point production.
Bourque is supposed to score how many goals in your opinion?

Peverley is supposed to do what on the 3rd line in your opinion?

The lineup is solved if Lucic plays where he should on the 2nd line and then you push everybody back. All you should do is fix the 1st line. IMO

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02-10-2013, 03:32 PM
  #498
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I'd get rid of Kelly before peverly

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02-10-2013, 03:38 PM
  #499
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Bourque is supposed to score how many goals in your opinion?

Peverley is supposed to do what on the 3rd line in your opinion?

The lineup is solved if Lucic plays where he should on the 2nd line and then you push everybody back. All you should do is fix the 1st line. IMO
I agree with your 1st 2 points, but why does Lucic belong on the 2nd line? Only 6 LW's had better production last year. Since 2010-2011 through the Bruin's 1st 8 games this year, Lucic has the best production on the Bruins. In the entire NHL over that time he ranks 29th in production, 30th in goals, and 42nd in points. He is clearly a very good 1st liner who also can't be matched physically by anyone that good.

Lucic and the 1st line are not a problem and don't need solving and we have been one of the best teams each of those 2 years and this year so far.

3rd line left wing is our "problem" that needs solving, if we have one at all.

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02-10-2013, 04:24 PM
  #500
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sjaustin77,

I don't like Lucic's speed and puck skills on a first line. I figure that with more speed and simply having puck skills there would make the Bruins a true elite team.

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