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Old
07-05-2006, 01:21 PM
  #51
hpNYR
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There really is no one else left that may sign to play on our 2nd line. The only other player is Carter and I say no thanks to him. So I'm guessing Sykora returns.

As far as our defense, Rozsival is a restricted FA and he will have to return. So it also looks like Staal will not be on the big club at the start of the reg season...besides there are reports that he's not ready and would be man handled at the nhl level.

Let Moore walk, or trade his rights.

Straka-Nylander-Jagr
Prucha-Cullen-Sykora
Dawes-Immonen-Ward
Hollweg-Betts-Ortmeyer
Orr
Hossa

Ward-Rachunek
Kaspar-Tyutin
Malik-Rozsival
Strudwick? (Give Pock and Staal ice time in HFTD for 1 more season)

Lundqvist
Weekes

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07-05-2006, 01:22 PM
  #52
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I'd argue...

that Immonen's play in the Finnish league, his training camp, his 6 NHL games and his being with the club practicing daily point to Immonen likely being more ready than Helminen and Dawes, and I think management would echo that same sentiment since it was Immonen that got the call-up and not Helminen. Immonen showed in training camp that he can handle the speed, and he can handle playing with bigger players. Helminen and Dawes haven't shown that yet, and Helminen wasn't really even afforded the opportunity to do so last season.

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07-05-2006, 03:25 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by 51tyutin51 View Post
There really is no one else left that may sign to play on our 2nd line. The only other player is Carter and I say no thanks to him. So I'm guessing Sykora returns.

As far as our defense, Rozsival is a restricted FA and he will have to return. So it also looks like Staal will not be on the big club at the start of the reg season...besides there are reports that he's not ready and would be man handled at the nhl level.

Let Moore walk, or trade his rights.

Straka-Nylander-Jagr
Prucha-Cullen-Sykora
Dawes-Immonen-Ward
Hollweg-Betts-Ortmeyer
Orr
Hossa

Ward-Rachunek
Kaspar-Tyutin
Malik-Rozsival
Strudwick? (Give Pock and Staal ice time in HFTD for 1 more season)

Lundqvist
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I think the closest roster is presented here:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/hoc...s/rangers.html

It has listed only 20 Players, so you can add any 3-4 of your or Slats liking. Besides so much talk I think Weeks stays as you correctly place him there. Ozolinch should be in place of Rachunek since he is the best D (on paper) that played for Rangers since Leetch departure. Sykora is not there, but might be added since some room is available.

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07-05-2006, 03:31 PM
  #54
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I'm pretty sure I just read a recent interview translated from Czech w/Rachunek still saying NYC is not a good place for him to be. If that is the case, I find it hard to believe he plays for us next year. Guess we'll see.

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07-05-2006, 03:33 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
If that is the case, I find it hard to believe he plays for us next year.
His $1.8m salary state differently.

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Old
07-05-2006, 03:35 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
I'm pretty sure I just read a recent interview translated from Czech w/Rachunek still saying NYC is not a good place for him to be. If that is the case, I find it hard to believe he plays for us next year. Guess we'll see.
Either way, he's an asset

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07-05-2006, 03:38 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
I think the closest roster is presented here:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/hoc...s/rangers.html

It has listed only 20 Players, so you can add any 3-4 of your or Slats liking. Besides so much talk I think Weeks stays as you correctly place him there. Ozolinch should be in place of Rachunek since he is the best D (on paper) that played for Rangers since Leetch departure. Sykora is not there, but might be added since some room is available.
I agree with you. Though as I mentioned above, I'm unsure about Rachunek. Also Sykora & Rozsival. But I think this very close.

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07-05-2006, 06:10 PM
  #58
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re: Tuits!

2006/07 NYR

I do like the majority of your line up. People continue to think rebuilding means top of the lineup down, the Rangers need to go from bottom up to deepen the team. That is how we had a good last year.
4th line - HMO line. Ortmeyer(not young) and D. Moore albeit hard workers, don't score enough and are easily pushed off the puck, they are entirely replaceable. They never had a year anywhere like Helminen had last year. Keep Hollweg. Hollweg will get 10 to 15 goals on the third line, no doubt he has the most potential on the HMO line. Moore and Orts never had years like Dawes, Giroux or Genoway. Betts and Ward are to good n the PK and Betts will get only better on draws. They both take the body and were consistent for most of the year. Betts and Ward to the 4th line. I like Ward on the 4th, he has offensive game, hits and is quick for his size. Later bloomer but good. To have a player with skill that far down says alot.
3rd line(Betts, Ward, Hossa) -Hossa, he is a bust, we gave him a year and he had no clutch goals, lacked motivation and can be replaced by quicker players that hit. I think he'll be replaced by Dawes. Center can be Immonen who I think is ready to roll. Defense/Offense, he is solid. Hollweg moves up.
2nd line Sykora needs to come back, he was the only one continually getting scoring chances on a Jagrless team, many goals post that were differences in the rangers getting a game or 2. Cullen, in. Prucha, continues to increase in size and will get more ice time.
1st line speaks for itself.
In Hartford, I expect Jessiman, Giroux, Korpikoski, Dubinsky and Petruzalek to have solid years...Pock is ready for the NHL, not sure if it is with the Rangers though..

This is a better team then the last.. Not incredibly, but slowly will fill out four big lines..
The future dmen in Staal, Sanguinetti and Sauer, not to forget Baranka, Girardi and Degon have sometime to see who is really NHL caliber...


Straka-Nylander-Jagr
Prucha-Cullen-Sykora
Dawes-Immonen-Hollweg
Helminen/G.Moore-Betts-Ward

Ward-Rachunek
Kaspar-Tyutin
Malik-Rozsival
Pock/Ozolinsh (Staal/Sauer ice time in OHL for 1 more season)

Lundqvist
Weekes

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Old
07-05-2006, 06:40 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by WestsideNYR View Post


Straka-Nylander-Jagr
Prucha-Cullen-Sykora
Dawes-Immonen-Hollweg
Helminen/G.Moore-Betts-Ward

Ward-Rachunek
Kaspar-Tyutin
Malik-Rozsival
Pock/Ozolinsh (Staal/Sauer ice time in OHL for 1 more season)

Lundqvist
Weekes
Hollweg is not a 3rd liner and will never be a 3rd liner.

He is a fringe NHLer and will only make it to the 4th line.

I love him, but he has no scoring potential

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07-05-2006, 06:42 PM
  #60
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Hollweg is not a 3rd liner and will never be a 3rd liner.

He is a fringe NHLer and will only make it to the 4th line.

I love him, but he has no scoring potential
I disagree. He could be a 3rd line player. He has flashed some skill before. He needs to develop it further. Who knows if he will, but he definetly can.

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Old
07-05-2006, 08:21 PM
  #61
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Hossa, he is a bust, we gave him a year and he had no clutch goals, lacked motivation and can be replaced by quicker players that hit.
Okay, first of all, you're not going to find many quicker players than Hossa - he has no flaws when it comes to the measurables (size, strength, speed, shot, etc.). When he disappoints, it's because of the intangibles - "hockey sense," motor, finishing touch, etc. The reason people get frustrated with him is that he's got all the tools, but fails to put it together. They see Hollweg at 5'11" making absolutely the most of what he has (and I agree with TB, by the way, that he could someday play on the third line) and then see Hossa who is big, fast and perhaps the strongest guy on the team (that's according to JD, not me) look lost for half a game and they throw up their hands in disgust. (Then there's the contingent of fans that demand that a 6'2"+, 230lb+ player must pummel someone's *ss every other game otherwise he by definition sucks, but let's leave that out of this discussion.)

Second of all, am I the only one who watched the last 10 games of last season and the playoffs vs. the Devils? He was arguably our best forward during that stretch - and clearly played his position better than any other forward (except maybe Betts). That alone is going to get him on this year's roster (in my opinion). If you want additional proof, consider how the coaching staff expanded his role over the last 20%-25% of the season and the playoffs. You may not like it, but he is going to get every opportunity to lock up a 3rd, maybe even 2nd line spot. (Let the flaming start on the 2nd line comment...)

[Having said that, he does need to pick up where he left off last year. If he slips back I will be -grudgingly- agreeing with those who want to ship him off. I have a good feeling, though, that this will not be the case.]

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07-05-2006, 10:22 PM
  #62
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Second of all, am I the only one who watched the last 10 games of last season and the playoffs vs. the Devils? He was arguably our best forward during that stretch - and clearly played his position better than any other forward (except maybe Betts). That alone is going to get him on this year's roster (in my opinion).
Not to start this debate over again, but you just gave his exact MO. Remember how he started the year. Very good camp, and a solid first 9 games. Then he disappeared until January. Had a week-long hot flash and promptly disappeared until the end of the year. IMO, what happened in those 10 games is nothing but the natural bell-curve of what Hossa is. He has a stretch where he scores 3 goals in two games. Then he may even go out and get an assist in the next 1 or 2. Then, about 4-5 games in, he will not score anything but still play well and make himself noticed. This will go on for 2-3 games. And then, he promptly begind to plummet until he is invisible and is not heard from for the next month.
Then, the whole cycle begins again. Or so I believe.

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07-05-2006, 10:31 PM
  #63
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Not to start this debate over again, but you just gave his exact MO. Remember how he started the year. Very good camp, and a solid first 9 games. Then he disappeared until January. Had a week-long hot flash and promptly disappeared until the end of the year. IMO, what happened in those 10 games is nothing but the natural bell-curve of what Hossa is. He has a stretch where he scores 3 goals in two games. Then he may even go out and get an assist in the next 1 or 2. Then, about 4-5 games in, he will not score anything but still play well and make himself noticed. This will go on for 2-3 games. And then, he promptly begind to plummet until he is invisible and is not heard from for the next month.
Then, the whole cycle begins again. Or so I believe.
Absolutely true. But the coaching staff saw something with about 20 games to play where they started giving him more responsibility (specifically putting him on the PK). Whether or not we all saw it then, I think we can all agree that towards the end he picked it up for about the last 10+ games AND the entire PO series, when we can all agree again, everyone else was sucking it up. His last run was his best and longest that I remember. TB, you certainly know that I've always been a fan of the potential, but his last stretch was his best that I've seen.

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07-06-2006, 07:34 AM
  #64
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Absolutely true. But the coaching staff saw something with about 20 games to play where they started giving him more responsibility (specifically putting him on the PK). Whether or not we all saw it then, I think we can all agree that towards the end he picked it up for about the last 10+ games AND the entire PO series, when we can all agree again, everyone else was sucking it up. His last run was his best and longest that I remember. TB, you certainly know that I've always been a fan of the potential, but his last stretch was his best that I've seen.
We shall have to see. Personally, I do not buy him. And what he brings as a bottom-2 line role player is not better than what is currently there (ie. he does not bring the energy of a Hollweg, or is as good a PKer or shot blocker as Moore or Ortmeyer). He does have the potential and the talent. But that was never in question.
Personally, I have no doubt that he will be our leading point scorer in pre-season and start the year with a few goals in the first 5 games. This board will be lit up with Hossa threads, just like it was last year. And then reality will sink in.

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07-06-2006, 07:36 AM
  #65
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OTTAWA SUN: Bruce Garrioch reports the Senators continue shopping winger Martin Havlat but his contract demands are getting in the way. "It's believed the San Jose Sharks, New York Rangers, Dallas Stars and Chicago Blackhawks are among the teams trying to work out a deal with Muckler", reports Garrioch, but Havlat continues to insist on a one-year contract in order to test next summer's UFA market. There is also speculation the Sens may be interested in UFA centre Yanic Perreault.

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07-06-2006, 08:13 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
I'm unsure about Rachunek. Also Sykora & Rozsival. But I think this very close.
Rozsival is a lock. He's Jagr's shadow. Him and Malik are the best thing that happened to Rangers last year. They as well as Straka and Nylander made Jarg what he was and I hope they will continue be successful in that.
We did not give Kondratiev away for nothing, did we? So I think Sykora will be kept. Nothing will be done with Rachunek before the camp. He matured into the best D in Russian Elite league. That means that he is way above NHL average. I can't wait to see him play.

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07-06-2006, 09:03 AM
  #67
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Him and Malik are the best thing that happened to Rangers last year.
Can you please explain how Rozsival is the best thing that happened to the Rangers last year?

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07-06-2006, 09:07 AM
  #68
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94now...

a big correction: Jagr made Malik, Rozsival and Straka who they were, not the opposite.

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07-06-2006, 09:53 AM
  #69
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For the record.....

Hollweg put up good offensive numbers in junior..He has the ability to score, but I think he knows his role and he does it well. If he ever gets to the 3rd line it will either be on an experiment or emergency basis.

It amazes me how people are already penciling in Immonen for the 3rd-line center slot and Dawes on the wing when it's pretty clear how much Renney, Maloney and Sather like Hossa, Ward, Betts and Moore. Both those centers were pretty much rookies last year and were solid as PK'ers and 3rd and 4th liners. Now that there is the possibility of Immonen taking one of their jobs, they'll most likely work harder (if that was at all possible for them) to ensure that Immonen's only chance of making the team is through injury. Everyone talks about Immonen's 2 goals, but didn't Moore have 3 assists in his NHL debut?

Moore and Betts know the system and they fit well. In the playoffs, our 3rd and 4th lines at even strength outplayed our top two.

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07-06-2006, 10:57 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by DarrenTurcotte8 View Post

It amazes me how people are already penciling in Immonen for the 3rd-line center slot and Dawes on the wing when it's pretty clear how much Renney, Maloney and Sather like Hossa, Ward, Betts and Moore. Both those centers were pretty much rookies last year and were solid as PK'ers and 3rd and 4th liners. Now that there is the possibility of Immonen taking one of their jobs, they'll most likely work harder (if that was at all possible for them) to ensure that Immonen's only chance of making the team is through injury. Everyone talks about Immonen's 2 goals, but didn't Moore have 3 assists in his NHL debut?

Moore and Betts know the system and they fit well. In the playoffs, our 3rd and 4th lines at even strength outplayed our top two.
But if I remember correctly wasn't that against the Habs, Moore for some reason puts up the points against this team. And if we played the habs half the season Moore would have around 60 points.

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07-06-2006, 11:16 AM
  #71
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But if I remember correctly wasn't that against the Habs, Moore for some reason puts up the points against this team. And if we played the habs half the season Moore would have around 60 points.
OK, so use that as leverage and trade him to Montreal for Zednik...Just kidding, although Zednik's speed would come in handy.

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07-06-2006, 01:28 PM
  #72
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Can you please explain how Rozsival is the best thing that happened to the Rangers last year?
Defenesemen that play with Jagr line do not have to be supernatural creatures able to protect their net by creating a wall at blue line. First of all, most of the time Jagr plays against defensive 2nd and 3rd lines. Most teams simply do not have 1st line to outplay Jagr's. Those few that do usually give us a lot of troubles. What is required for 1st line to score. It is basically three things
1. Puck acquisition.
2. Delivery to Jagr and his Fs.
3. Ability to outplay the checkers and the defense by one-on-one and/or puck movement.
The 3rd one is a trademark of Jagr &Co. The first one is not entirely D-man job. But the second one is critical. Somehow Malik and Rozi clicked with JJ on that and created the unit that was not possible in Washington. The teams that were successful against Rangers would hit hard not Jagr (not easy to do anyway), not other forwards, but Rozsival and Malik leaving Jagr unfed.
The ability TO FEEL is the most valuable for any chemistry. That is why I think Rozi (as well as Malik) is the Jagr extention and has to be kept that way.

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07-06-2006, 01:59 PM
  #73
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1. Puck acquisition.
2. Delivery to Jagr and his Fs.
3. Ability to outplay the checkers and the defense by one-on-one and/or puck movement.
The 3rd one is a trademark of Jagr &Co. The first one is not entirely D-man job. But the second one is critical. Somehow Malik and Rozi clicked with JJ on that and created the unit that was not possible in Washington. The teams that were successful against Rangers would hit hard not Jagr (not easy to do anyway), not other forwards, but Rozsival and Malik leaving Jagr unfed.
But Poti could have delivered the initial outlet pass, just as easily as Rozsival and he probably would not give the puck away as often. As for the ability to ouplay the checkers one-on-one, you are loosing me here. Are we talking about the same Rozsival who was beaten on more one-one-one players than a drum? The "clicking" with Jagr is being overstated as the defenseman had the least to do with the Jagr goals (otherwise how could Rozsival have such a low point total, in relativity to his bloated +/-?).
The teams that were successfull against the Rangers simply beat Rozsival any which way. Rozsival did not need to be checked to cough up the puck. Rozsival did very little lugging of the puck. Frequently, it was Straka who woudltake the puck from behind the blueline and feed it to Nylander somewhere in center ice.
Quote:
That is why I think Rozi (as well as Malik) is the Jagr extention and has to be kept that way.
When trying to build a team, Rozsival is the last thing that this team needs.

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07-06-2006, 04:12 PM
  #74
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Poti didn't get a +16 last year...

by not clicking with somebody too. He too played well when he had a chance to play with Jagr, which I'd say was somewhere around 30%, perhaps a bit more, of his (Poti's) even strength shifts. Contrary to popular belief, the defensemen's job is easier with him out there. Much of the play is at the other end, and when play moves towards the Rangers defense, at least a guy like Straka quickly and diligently helped out, and I don't know how many occasions we all were shocked that Jagr too was playing in all three zones for a lot of the season (in a zone of his own).

Somehow, though, while playing with Jagr, neither Poti nor Rozsival racked up the points - they were just beneficiaries of being out there for the '+'.

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07-07-2006, 09:10 AM
  #75
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But Poti could have delivered the initial outlet pass,
Yes, Poti could, but he was told to do other things probably because Jarg wasn't comfortable with him. Poti is a similar player, BTW. And he shares the similar dislike among the fans. Why? That is when not playing with strongest line of forward they both become a liability since their defensive upsides are limited to good pock-checking. They both cannot level the opposition, have trouble clearing the slot since both are not quite agile in own zone (not to be mistaken with speed they both have). But defense is not about playing in own zone only. Most of the time D-man plays in neutral zone and occupies the point. If this is not the case, that means
1)you are playing on a loosing team or
2)helping your checkers while on the winning team or
3)your team can't get out of the penalty box.
First two did not applied to Rozy (except playoffs), third one killed him as you know. All three applied to Poti. That is why he has failed in here and is out. I'm sure Poti will succeed elsewhere, when his talents will be used right (playing with Thornton?) Ozolinch is Poti replacement (same resentment among fans) and he will be tried to fit with Jagr for sure. Ozo is by far better that Rozy in opposition zone, but Rozy has an upper hand by being PROVEN fit to JJ already.
Plus 2 million is not a big deal.
I understand your complain. But Roszival in not HOF material. Only those guys can do it all ( and cost much more). The rest have limitations. You can win without future HOF. We tried to buy HOF players and failed. There is no way back to those times.

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