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Oilers lose 2-1 ... again

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Old
02-10-2013, 02:28 PM
  #476
Bryanbryoil
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
I like you as a poster but this is nonsense. The players deserve to be called out if they aren't performing up to par. Fans are allowed to voice their displeasure without getting called out by holier than thou posts telling them to calm down.

I understand that some fans overreact after losses sometimes myself included but this is built up frustration after 3 years of awful hockey and the team this season quite frankly, doesn't look much better at all so even myself who has been patient up until this season is starting to lose patience and the frustration is boiling over.

Fans want to see some pay off after 3 years of patience watching awful products and it's just not happening, the team is getting outplayed a lot even in the wins and we're getting sick of watching them being outmatched just about every game.

I didn't expect this to be a playoff team. I think that 10th in the conference, 20-22nd in the NHL is a reasonable expectation but it's the way they are playing that's aggravating. It seems that they haven't learned a thing from last season and they have the same exact bad habits that they had last season. It's pretty disconcerting to see a team despite the decent record, that hasn't improved at all or very little from last years 29th place team.
Perhaps it's just me but I find your stance to be hypocratic. You were hell bent on telling those that felt that OKC and specifically the Oilers kids would dominate the AHL that they were expecting far too much and that it wasn't realistic because "the AHL is a very good league" and "they are facing the top checking/tight checking that they haven't at the NHL level" yet here you are crapping on these players because they aren't producing as much as you had hoped playing against the NHL's best players? So I guess that means that AHL checking > NHL? Not sure what to take of your complete 180? RNH is standing in there against the other teams best players and he isn't being made their ***** at 19 years of age, Gagner for example still can't do that at 23 or 24 or whatever he is. Many veteran players in their late 20's and early-mid 30's can't do that. You can't have it both ways man, like it or not RNH is busting his ass out there and playing tremendous defense, the offense will come, but I guess he should get **** on for not producing at this level while transitioning to his new role when his last level of play was against kids which was supported by most on this board. The WJC was a major step below the AHL this year let alone the NHL. Then you have Hall who has back checked like a demon a few times this year which he wouldn't have done before. He is learning to be a complete player, all is not lost no matter how much doom and gloom some of you are spewing. Teams go through rough patches, even good teams do, the season is a little under 25% done, there is a lot of hockey left to be played and I'd rather see the kids busting their ass and not seeing results than pouting or playing disinterested because they are still losing games.

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02-10-2013, 02:31 PM
  #477
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Originally Posted by Baby Nilsson View Post
I noticed they were taking longer shifts, but damn... I had no idea it was that bad.
Is it bad to have a good cycling game and possesion of the puck? Pressure in offensive zone and a good cycling results in longer shifts! Brake up plays go and back results in shorter shifts!

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02-10-2013, 02:40 PM
  #478
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Originally Posted by McClelland View Post
Is it bad to have a good cycling game and possesion of the puck? Pressure in offensive zone and a good cycling results in longer shifts! Brake up plays go and back results in shorter shifts!
Even when the play gets broken up, I'd notice Eberle for example right back in the play on what is supposed be to a line change. The top PP unit, unless given specific instructions to do so, shouldn't be on the ice for nearly the whole 2 minutes.

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02-10-2013, 02:40 PM
  #479
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Originally Posted by McClelland View Post
Is it bad to have a good cycling game and possesion of the puck? Pressure in offensive zone and a good cycling results in longer shifts! Brake up plays go and back results in shorter shifts!
I have yet to see RNH burned for taking too long of a shift, he often times is the last forward off the ice because of his defensive responsibilities. And if we are talking about numbers, how's Gagner's 37% faceoff % coming along? 42-76 at ES 35.6%, 2-10 on the PK for 16.7%, and it's only his 6th year in the league!

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02-10-2013, 02:41 PM
  #480
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Perhaps it's just me but I find your stance to be hypocratic. You were hell bent on telling those that felt that OKC and specifically the Oilers kids would dominate the AHL that they were expecting far too much and that it wasn't realistic because "the AHL is a very good league" and "they are facing the top checking/tight checking that they haven't at the NHL level" yet here you are crapping on these players because they aren't producing as much as you had hoped playing against the NHL's best players? So I guess that means that AHL checking > NHL? Not sure what to take of your complete 180? RNH is standing in there against the other teams best players and he isn't being made their ***** at 19 years of age, Gagner for example still can't do that at 23 or 24 or whatever he is. Many veteran players in their late 20's and early-mid 30's can't do that. You can't have it both ways man, like it or not RNH is busting his ass out there and playing tremendous defense, the offense will come, but I guess he should get **** on for not producing at this level while transitioning to his new role when his last level of play was against kids which was supported by most on this board. The WJC was a major step below the AHL this year let alone the NHL. Then you have Hall who has back checked like a demon a few times this year which he wouldn't have done before. He is learning to be a complete player, all is not lost no matter how much doom and gloom some of you are spewing. Teams go through rough patches, even good teams do, the season is a little under 25% done, there is a lot of hockey left to be played and I'd rather see the kids busting their ass and not seeing results than pouting or playing disinterested because they are still losing games.
The topline has been underwhelming whether it be in OKC or here and I called it out. Particularly RNH has struggled all year. Without J Schultz contribution the kids aren't producing as much as they are.

This is a unit that had EVERY advantage this season having played a half season together before many other NHL players got their first games in.

This is the exact time when the OIl, and paritularly the first unit, were supposed to be money and in the gravy. Being that they started the season on a running start they should have been feasting at this point. Criticism is warranted.

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02-10-2013, 02:43 PM
  #481
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Originally Posted by Baby Nilsson View Post
Even when the play gets broken up, I'd notice Eberle for example right back in the play on what is supposed be to a line change. The top PP unit, unless given specific instructions to do so, shouldn't be on the ice for nearly the whole 2 minutes.
RNH 4:38
Gagner 3:34

Eberle 4:35
Hemsky 3:24

Hall 4:31
Yakupov 3:22

Yeah it looks like our top PP unit is hogging all of the PP ice, what a joke.

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02-10-2013, 02:45 PM
  #482
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Originally Posted by McClelland View Post
Is it bad to have a good cycling game and possesion of the puck? Pressure in offensive zone and a good cycling results in longer shifts! Brake up plays go and back results in shorter shifts!
Let me say that when a line has two chances to change, and then gets caught in their end twice and is in trouble, that they are not being out there too long due to a good cycle. Three times yesterday this line was caught out too long when there were multiple reverses of the puck.
On one of the plays a Red Wing, Abdelkader(something) was stupid enough to muff an easy shot at Khabi. Otherwise it had been looking like a full press PP and with RNH and Eberle on the ropes and dying out there. Can't imagine anybody was impressed.

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02-10-2013, 02:47 PM
  #483
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Originally Posted by Baby Nilsson View Post
Even when the play gets broken up, I'd notice Eberle for example right back in the play on what is supposed be to a line change. The top PP unit, unless given specific instructions to do so, shouldn't be on the ice for nearly the whole 2 minutes.
You were surprised a couple of post ago! And now you have numbers on their shifts?

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02-10-2013, 02:47 PM
  #484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
RNH 4:38
Gagner 3:34

Eberle 4:35
Hemsky 3:24

Hall 4:31
Yakupov 3:22

Yeah it looks like our top PP unit is hogging all of the PP ice, what a joke.
Well, maybe I should have been more specific.. but I didn't think I had to.. But not every powerplay resulted in extended shifts from the first line.


Last edited by Baby Nilsson: 02-10-2013 at 02:51 PM. Reason: typo
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02-10-2013, 02:48 PM
  #485
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
The topline has been underwhelming whether it be in OKC or here and I called it out. Particularly RNH has struggled all year. Without J Schultz contribution the kids aren't producing as much as they are.

This is a unit that had EVERY advantage this season having played a half season together before many other NHL players got their first games in.

This is the exact time when the OIl, and paritularly the first unit, were supposed to be money and in the gravy. Being that they started the season on a running start they should have been feasting at this point. Criticism is warranted.
So RNH playing something like 19 games and being away from his teammates for nearly 2 months = playing 1/2 a season with Hall and Eberle? Or how about the fact that all 3 were in the lineup together for all of 12 games? You are quite frankly grasping at straws here and stating popular opinion instead of backing what you say up with actual events.

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02-10-2013, 02:49 PM
  #486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
RNH 4:38
Gagner 3:34

Eberle 4:35
Hemsky 3:24

Hall 4:31
Yakupov 3:22

Yeah it looks like our top PP unit is hogging all of the PP ice, what a joke.
The only joke is that RNH has the most PP minutes on this club and has 1 2nd assist to show for it all year.

btw the above is perfect illustration. Both lines are getting basically identical shifts. Just one of them are chronically staying out there much longer. not sure why you defend that.

In the Oilers of old anybody but Gretz would be called out for spending too much time on the PP, even Paul Coffey. Gretz was one of the few players that could play a longshift at tempo thus it was OK to leave him out there. Plus that his checking assignments would be dying out there trying to last with him.

For normal players you should get off and keep your shifts around 40-45 secs. Anything over a minute is going overboard anytime. This is hockey not baseball. After 1 minute out there your lungs are burning if you're doing what you should.

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02-10-2013, 02:50 PM
  #487
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Originally Posted by McClelland View Post
You were surprised a couple of post ago! And now you have numbers on their shifts?
Sure, I'm surprised by the overall numbers.

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02-10-2013, 02:50 PM
  #488
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Let me say that when a line has two chances to change, and then gets caught in their end twice and is in trouble, that they are not being out there too long due to a good cycle. Three times yesterday this line was caught out too long when there were multiple reverses of the puck.
On one of the plays a Red Wing, Abdelkader(something) was stupid enough to muff an easy shot at Khabi. Otherwise it had been looking like a full press PP and with RNH and Eberle on the ropes and dying out there. Can't imagine anybody was impressed.
Where we talking about toi total or are we cherrypicking shifts?

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02-10-2013, 02:54 PM
  #489
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
So RNH playing something like 19 games and being away from his teammates for nearly 2 months = playing 1/2 a season with Hall and Eberle? Or how about the fact that all 3 were in the lineup together for all of 12 games? You are quite frankly grasping at straws here and stating popular opinion instead of backing what you say up with actual events.
Look, all of Eberle, Hall, RNH, J Schultz played a lot of games in the AHL, a lot of it together, and any of it an advantage over the vast majority of what the rest of the NHL is at.
Just look at Brunner and Zetterberg, played together on a line in Zug and are now rocking it out of the ballpark in the NHL. Zetterberg looking the best he's looked in years. Both of them stating what a huge advantage it had been playing together prior to the NHL starting.

But heres you maintainign that the Oilers, and our topline had no such advantage when nearly every pundit was stating it should be a huge advantage.

With the exception of J Schultz, and maybe Hall, they've not used this to advantage.

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02-10-2013, 02:55 PM
  #490
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I think Kevin Lowe called for the 5 year plan the season after they finished last and drafted Hall.

So we are now in year 3. And yeah... one would think that year 5 would be the finished product (aka cup contender), year 3 would presumably be where things begin to come together. Not yet sadly.
If you want to use Chicago as the model, Tambo's got to start finding his Andrew Ladd, or Byfuglien , or Sharp. He's got to take a big swing and bring in his Campbell. So far, we've seen nothing of the kind.

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02-10-2013, 02:58 PM
  #491
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Originally Posted by McClelland View Post
Where we talking about toi total or are we cherrypicking shifts?
You already know if you carefully read posts 462, and 469. I gave the outline and linked the numbers.

On average the first line shifts have been appreciable longer than the 2nd line shifts. But more importantly the 1st line shifts are longer than they should be and why coach had talked to them about it at least twice extensively.

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02-10-2013, 03:02 PM
  #492
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
The only joke is that RNH has the most PP minutes on this club and has 1 2nd assist to show for it all year.

btw the above is perfect illustration. Both lines are getting basically identical shifts. Just one of them are chronically staying out there much longer. not sure why you defend that.

In the Oilers of old anybody but Gretz would be called out for spending too much time on the PP, even Paul Coffey. Gretz was one of the few players that could play a longshift at tempo thus it was OK to leave him out there. Plus that his checking assignments would be dying out there trying to last with him.

For normal players you should get off and keep your shifts around 40-45 secs. Anything over a minute is going overboard anytime. This is hockey not baseball. After 1 minute out there your lungs are burning if you're doing what you should.
Meanwhile RNH has been a PP dynamo every other point of his career and is in a slump, so how do you break out of a slump? You keep playing. I didn't hear you complaining about Gagner's PP TOI 2 season's ago when he had 9 PP points in 200:18 minutes. It's just when "the man is keeping Gagner down" that we hear crap like this.

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Look, all of Eberle, Hall, RNH, J Schultz played a lot of games in the AHL, a lot of it together, and any of it an advantage over the vast majority of what the rest of the NHL is at.
Just look at Brunner and Zetterberg, played together on a line in Zug and are now rocking it out of the ballpark in the NHL. Zetterberg looking the best he's looked in years. Both of them stating what a huge advantage it had been playing together prior to the NHL starting.

But heres you maintainign that the Oilers, and our topline had no such advantage when nearly every pundit was stating it should be a huge advantage.

With the exception of J Schultz, and maybe Hall, they've not used this to advantage.
What part of my above post didn't you comprehend? 12 games 2+ months ago may as well have been last season.

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02-10-2013, 03:02 PM
  #493
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
You already know if you carefully read posts 462, and 469. I gave the outline and linked the numbers.

On average the first line shifts have been appreciable longer than the 2nd line shifts. But more importantly the 1st line shifts are longer than they should be and why coach had talked to them about it at least twice extensively.
1st unit PP's play more than 2nd units? Who knew?

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02-10-2013, 03:03 PM
  #494
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The only joke is that RNH has the most PP minutes on this club and has 1 2nd assist to show for it all year.

btw the above is perfect illustration. Both lines are getting basically identical shifts. Just one of them are chronically staying out there much longer. not sure why you defend that.

In the Oilers of old anybody but Gretz would be called out for spending too much time on the PP, even Paul Coffey. Gretz was one of the few players that could play a longshift at tempo thus it was OK to leave him out there. Plus that his checking assignments would be dying out there trying to last with him.

For normal players you should get off and keep your shifts around 40-45 secs. Anything over a minute is going overboard anytime. This is hockey not baseball. After 1 minute out there your lungs are burning if you're doing what you should.
Start to be ridicolous! Here we talking about a kid who was picked number 1 and who had a great 1 seasons. Rnh is expected to lead this franchise with Hall and Ebs.

2 year could be harder for most of the players, he is on a bad strike but im not worried about him , they are up against the other teams topline and the whole team cant score in Ev. Gagner shouldnt have even close the same toi then Rnh,hall and Ebs. You can watch when that day comes (if gags still here) when we reach the playoffs, then we doubleshift our top-guns.

Gagner is on a 1 year tryout year and are not yet in the long term plans!

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02-10-2013, 03:06 PM
  #495
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1st unit PP's play more than 2nd units? Who knew?
Who knew that one line is considered first line when they've scored 5 goals and the second line has scored 12?

This is a line 1A, and 1B team and time to start approaching it that way. Especially as the topline was struggling.

I guess it makes sense to you that the player with the least impact on the PP, and the least pts on the PP, was getting the most PP minutes.

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02-10-2013, 03:08 PM
  #496
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Start to be ridicolous! Here we talking about a kid who was picked number 1 and who had a great 1 seasons. Rnh is expected to lead this franchise with Hall and Ebs.

2 year could be harder for most of the players, he is on a bad strike but im not worried about him , they are up against the other teams topline and the whole team cant score in Ev. Gagner shouldnt have even close the same toi then Rnh,hall and Ebs. You can watch when that day comes (if gags still here) when we reach the playoffs, then we doubleshift our top-guns.

Gagner is on a 1 year tryout year and are not yet in the long term plans!
Its my take that RNH is more impacted by his shoulder than is being indicated. BBO would know I'm an RNH fan, I have nothing at all against the player. This is not issue related. I wanted this player drafted and liked him and I'm on record with that. But right now, and over last 21 GP at this level he's goal less and largely ineffective. Maybe he needs to be watching a little right now as he's really struggling offensively.

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02-10-2013, 03:31 PM
  #497
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Perhaps it's just me but I find your stance to be hypocratic. You were hell bent on telling those that felt that OKC and specifically the Oilers kids would dominate the AHL that they were expecting far too much and that it wasn't realistic because "the AHL is a very good league" and "they are facing the top checking/tight checking that they haven't at the NHL level" yet here you are crapping on these players because they aren't producing as much as you had hoped playing against the NHL's best players? So I guess that means that AHL checking > NHL? Not sure what to take of your complete 180? RNH is standing in there against the other teams best players and he isn't being made their ***** at 19 years of age, Gagner for example still can't do that at 23 or 24 or whatever he is. Many veteran players in their late 20's and early-mid 30's can't do that. You can't have it both ways man, like it or not RNH is busting his ass out there and playing tremendous defense, the offense will come, but I guess he should get **** on for not producing at this level while transitioning to his new role when his last level of play was against kids which was supported by most on this board. The WJC was a major step below the AHL this year let alone the NHL. Then you have Hall who has back checked like a demon a few times this year which he wouldn't have done before. He is learning to be a complete player, all is not lost no matter how much doom and gloom some of you are spewing. Teams go through rough patches, even good teams do, the season is a little under 25% done, there is a lot of hockey left to be played and I'd rather see the kids busting their ass and not seeing results than pouting or playing disinterested because they are still losing games.
Woah Woah, when did i ever crap on any specific players? When did i crap on one of the kids?
I have been calling out THE TEAM for subpar play, not any specific players. The entire team needs to be better and yes, they deserve to be called out for poor performances. The only players who have been consistently good is Justin Schultz and Dubnyk.

The rest of the team including the young players AND the veterans needs to be better if the team is to even have a sniff of the playoffs. I see nothing wrong with calling out the team for being poor which they have been more times than not. After many years of poor play, i expect this team to show real, live improvement and i don't see it.

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02-10-2013, 03:39 PM
  #498
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We're close (a lot closer than we'd like to believe) to having to make a tough decision with RNH. 21 games between goals is too bloody long for a top line player especially a top line centre. Either he needs surgery to fix his obviously damaged shoulder or he needs some AHL conditioning to fix his shattered offensive confidence.

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02-10-2013, 03:44 PM
  #499
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Yeah it's disgusting that our best players are getting the most ice time and the longest shifts. We need more ice time from our vet 3rd line and or 4th lines that are producing oh so well.

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02-10-2013, 03:53 PM
  #500
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Khabi is a better goalie than Dubnyk.

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