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02-10-2013, 04:22 PM
  #51
1865
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Let's not forget that Wayne Simmonds has outscored Mike Richards since the trade, even without taking into account Brayden Schenn. Another tick.

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02-10-2013, 04:26 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by 1865 View Post
Let's not forget that Wayne Simmonds has outscored Mike Richards since the trade, even without taking into account Brayden Schenn. Another tick.

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02-10-2013, 04:26 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1865 View Post
Let's not forget that Wayne Simmonds has outscored Mike Richards since the trade, even without taking into account Brayden Schenn. Another tick.
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
I see what you did there....

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02-10-2013, 04:26 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
IF that's the case, why did we trade Richie AND Carter? Carter's salary would've been enough to make cap room.
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
LOL ya, I'm sure Homer just decided to get up one morning and trade our captain for no apparent reason. He could have easily moved others to make room for a goalie if that was the reason
I still think the trading of Carter and Richards was Sniders call. I just have a hard time believing that it was anything those idiots in the Philly papers were printing.
You really think they were traded because they liked to have a few beers?
Not that I want to go down that road with that topic because it just brings out the worst in people.
Who else was going to get traded to clear salary? Hartnell? Giroux? Briere?
Carter and Richards NTC had not kicked in yet with their new contracts.

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02-10-2013, 04:50 PM
  #55
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Only moves I never understood were him keeping Leighton around. He should have never been resigned in the summer of 2010 and after that debacle in Buffalo on on Easter 2011 he should have been gone permanently.

I would just like this team to start developing defenders and not trade them away.

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02-10-2013, 05:00 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
The Flyers have had the worst farm club in the AHL the last few years.
Dont you think that keeping some of those high draft picks would of changed that?
bottom 5 prospect group as well. Especially after Laughton,Cousins and Stolarz.
How long will that "but we have a young core excuse fly"? I have said it before, and I will say it again. Probably not for the last time. Having a solid "young" core is no excuse for having poor prospect depth and a God awfull AHL team.
Seems most times we need someone from the farm, they come up and play well . Who gives a damn what their record is if the club is keeping the Big team in the Hunt by sending up replacements when needed....Thats their job as a minor league team, along with developing young talent. Not really that worried about their record down there actually..Some teams are full of good talent but they cannot play together as a team and have a crap record etc, but they supply good players ready to play....

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02-10-2013, 05:06 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Come on now, they'd have won it with or without him.

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02-10-2013, 05:12 PM
  #58
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Looks like banging my head on my computer desk might be a better option for me then spending time in this thread trying to get my point across.

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02-10-2013, 05:14 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spread Eagle View Post
Giroux
Schenn
Couterier
Voracek
Simmonds
McGinn
Wellwood
laughton
Rinaldo
All under 25, with playing experience or success in the NHL...
while all aren't top 6 players, it does go to depth. Colorado has been touted for their prospect pool,but they still haven't consistantly made the playoffs for awhile. Our players have developed, not every prospect will do the same. People here value prospects too highly (yes they are important, but not the holy grail). An established player generally has a higher value than a prospect.
Exactly ! Very well said, especially about PROSPECTS ! Whole lotta folks buy into the media generated HYPE about this or that prospect.....NOBODY really knows how a prospect will turn out, especially Goalies.Look at Read ? Came in off the radar and can bang in goals like a # 1 pick cannot do for another club etc..Homer and the Flyers organization do a nice job evaluating talent in my view,and i have always pretty much liked most of the moves they have done for the most part.....I try and keep from the knee jerk reaction nonsense that some folks jump on when said player has a bad game or a bad few weeks etc......Nothing wrong with a little patience to get a good and honest prospective on how this move or that trade has REALLY worked out........

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02-10-2013, 05:14 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1865 View Post
Come on now, they'd have won it with or without him.
Disagree. Richards and Carter played big roles for LA on their run to the cup.

With that said I don't think you should use them winning a cup to discredit the Homer. We weren't going to win a cup with them two as the main guys here.

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02-10-2013, 05:19 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
Looks like banging my head on my computer desk might be a better option for me then spending time in this thread trying to get my point across.
Relax Bro ! Homer is ALWAYS a subject that raises ones eye brows and gets the juices flowing ! LOL.....

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02-10-2013, 05:28 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Disagree. Richards and Carter played big roles for LA on their run to the cup.

With that said I don't think you should use them winning a cup to discredit the Homer. We weren't going to win a cup with them two as the main guys here.
Agree with your disagreement, but disagree with the rest. We were 2 wins away from the Cup with them as main guys while we had Leighton as our goalie. Yes there were other good players on the team, but they were the backbone, along with Pronger.

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02-10-2013, 05:32 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Not Pictured: Anze Kopitar, Drew Doughty, Dustin Brown, and Jonathan Quick

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02-10-2013, 05:33 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1865 View Post
Let's not forget that Wayne Simmonds has outscored Mike Richards since the trade, even without taking into account Brayden Schenn. Another tick.
Let's not forget Richards had a major concussion last season and wasn't the same afterwards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1865 View Post
Come on now, they'd have won it with or without him.
This is flat out false. They don't even make the playoffs if he isn't their offense until December, when he gets concussed. Just like they also don't even make the playoffs without Carter.

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02-10-2013, 05:45 PM
  #65
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5 straight years in the playoffs since he took over full time . Only Boston, Washington , Pittsburgh, San Jose, and Detroit have been in the playoffs every year since that time.
4 times in the 2nd round of the playoffs the last five years. Only Detroit has done that.
2 times in the conference finals that last five years: Chicago, Detroit, San Jose, and Pittsburgh have done that.
1 Stanley Cup appearance. 8 total teams including the Flyers made it in that time with 5 different winners.

So the only team that compares to the consistent success of the Flyers since Paul Holmgren took over is the Detroit Red Wings. Besides winning the Stanley Cup, what does he have to do to be considered a top GM in the league?


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02-10-2013, 05:59 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
I still think the trading of Carter and Richards was Sniders call. I just have a hard time believing that it was anything those idiots in the Philly papers were printing.
You really think they were traded because they liked to have a few beers?
Not that I want to go down that road with that topic because it just brings out the worst in people.
Who else was going to get traded to clear salary? Hartnell? Giroux? Briere?
Carter and Richards NTC had not kicked in yet with their new contracts.
there was more to it than just the partying that led to a completely different player on the ice. the Mike Richards we saw in in 2010 was not the same one we saw in 2011. He started acting like a spoiled baby to the media and gave up on many plays out on the ice. The partying lifestyle doesn't seem like it was made up by the media with all the stories about it.

I find it really hard to believe that you don't think anything was going on behind the scenes with Carter and Richards off the ice. If that wasn't the case, then there's no way both of them would have been traded. The Carter trade was an obvious one that was going to be made. He was expendable and had value, however, the moment the Richards trade is a different story. You don't just trade your captain and "star player" out of the blue for no reason.

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02-10-2013, 06:01 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
5 straight years in the playoffs since he took over full time . Only Boston, Washington , Pittsburgh, San Jose, and Detroit have been in the playoffs every year since that time.
4 times in the 2nd round of the playoffs the last five years. Only Detroit has done that.
2 times in the conference finals that last five years: Chicago, Detroit, San Jose, and Pittsburgh have done that.
1 Stanley Cup appearance. 8 total teams including the Flyers made it in that time with 5 different winners.

So the only team that compares to the consistent success of the Flyers since Paul Holmgren took over is the Detroit Red Wings. Besides winning the Stanley Cup, what does he have to do to be considered a top GM in the league?
Considering what the team was when he got here, he has my vote! Sure would love a cup or two though.

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02-10-2013, 06:18 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Let's not forget Richards had a major concussion last season and wasn't the same afterwards.



This is flat out false. They don't even make the playoffs if he isn't their offense until December, when he gets concussed. Just like they also don't even make the playoffs without Carter.
He had 18 points in 24 games by December 1st. Stamkos he was not. How many more points did he score than Simmonds or Schenn would have? Can't be many. It's arguable that the trade itself kicked LA up the rear end and got them playing rather than Richards himself coming in.

Don't get me wrong, I love Richie but it was a damn fine trade. They wouldn't admit it publicly, but deep down I think LA would do a takeback. Columbus certainly would.

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02-10-2013, 06:21 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
Looks like banging my head on my computer desk might be a better option for me then spending time in this thread trying to get my point across.
Make your point clearly like everyone else and save yourself a headache. Why should we keep a stocked farm team at the expense of the NHL roster? That's the equation.

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02-10-2013, 06:28 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
man, remember when richards scored 1000 goals 1vs5 shift after shift to win the cup all by himself. Wow!!

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02-10-2013, 06:32 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by 1865 View Post
He had 18 points in 24 games by December 1st. Stamkos he was not. How many more points did he score than Simmonds or Schenn would have? Can't be many. It's arguable that the trade itself kicked LA up the rear end and got them playing rather than Richards himself coming in.

Don't get me wrong, I love Richie but it was a damn fine trade. They wouldn't admit it publicly, but deep down I think LA would do a takeback. Columbus certainly would.
Hah, yeah, no they wouldn't. They won a cup with Richards and yes, despite people not wanting to admit it, Richards was a big reason they won it. No, he didn't play to the level of Kopitar, Brown, Quick and Doughty, but he was pretty important. I thought he out-played Kopitar in the first series.

I love Simmonds, but he is not as good as Richards. He's younger and cheaper and not on a contract that I personally don't like, but better? Nope. Put Simmonds on the Kings and he doesn't come close to putting up the numbers he did here last year.

I love Schenn as well, but what has he proved? Why do people automatically assume that Couturier and Schenn will be as good, let alone better than Carter and Richards?

I think your kidding yourself if you think that Kings fans would take back that trade TBH. Columbus? Yes. LA though? Richards helped bring their first Stanley Cup ever. Why in the world would they give that up?

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02-10-2013, 06:56 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
there was more to it than just the partying that led to a completely different player on the ice. the Mike Richards we saw in in 2010 was not the same one we saw in 2011. He started acting like a spoiled baby to the media and gave up on many plays out on the ice. The partying lifestyle doesn't seem like it was made up by the media with all the stories about it.

I find it really hard to believe that you don't think anything was going on behind the scenes with Carter and Richards off the ice. If that wasn't the case, then there's no way both of them would have been traded. The Carter trade was an obvious one that was going to be made. He was expendable and had value, however, the moment the Richards trade is a different story. You don't just trade your captain and "star player" out of the blue for no reason.
A lot of the players you see the year after a Cup Finals run are often different. Check out Lindros' numbers in 1998. Go through almost every other team who lose in the Finals.

It's also quite possible that 2010 was a complete and utter mirage, as is also often with teams who lose in the Finals, but that didn't really manifest itself given that the Kings went on a tear in almost the instant they traded for Carter/

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1865 View Post
Come on now, they'd have won it with or without him.
Not with Jarret Stoll as the 2nd line center. They don't even make the playoffs.

And no, they wouldn't take it back. They nearly traded Brown in favor of making Richards the captain.

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So what? The move singlehandedly put us in position for a stanley cup. The Ducks have Emerson Etem and Kyle Palmieri as a result of the 2 firsts we gave them.
No, it didn't. Firing John Stevens and replacing him with Lavy put us in position to win the Cup. They were a sinking ship before that. As fearless as Holmgren was getting Pronger, he was equally scared to fire Stevens, which should have happened first. It's easy to forget just how tenuous the team was before sneaking into the playoffs.


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You are right it could of been the difference that without that first we don't get Pronger, then we don't get to the SCF at all. We hardly ever add at the deadline, and don't swing it that we don't because we don't have the assets, we have more picks and more prospects we could trade if we wanted to. We are just not a team that makes moves at the deadline the moves we make are in the offseason.
Go through the prospect list in February of 2010, and tell me what types of NHL players you'd get with them. We had NOBODY, which is why everyone was asking for Giroux. They only got Leino because the Red Wings were about to waive him. They had to sign Lukas Krajicek off the street. You can't draft well without draft picks. You also can't make trades. It nearly worked, but it didn't.

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02-10-2013, 07:19 PM
  #73
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I like Holmgrens style very much. He would do anything to win. There is bad choices too but i like that he even does something. He is difference maker here, both way. I would hate that kind of GM who doesnt try anything even with risk to do better team.

I wait it every summer what Holmgren have in his pockets to bring somethin to team. Maybe next summer it is sniper, then defender, who knows, but we know that we have a guy there who will do it if it is possible!

I have same toughts about our farm and prospects. And i know that Holmgren knows that too. So my wish is that if we lose playoffs this season we could try to push hard to draft to get those prospects by trading our vets out. (Briere, Timonen rental, Fedotenko, Knuble for picks) cause there is so deep draft coming that even 2nd rounders could be steals in future.

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02-10-2013, 07:20 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1865 View Post
Make your point clearly like everyone else and save yourself a headache. Why should we keep a stocked farm team at the expense of the NHL roster? That's the equation.
i think I explained myself already. if we had some viable options down on the farm we wouldnt have to sign crap like Gervais, Foster and Lilja.
I never once said i want a stacked ****ing roster in ADK. It would be nice to have a farm roster with you know actual prospects? not a bunch of ****** junior prospects no one else wanted.
Look at our roster compared to every other NHL teams farm club. Just about everyone else has guys they can call up and play. Who do we have after Gus? LOL
Pretty sad when the best otions to call up on the farm at forward are Wellwood and McGinn
But yeah its cool having a AHL roster chalk full of AHL vets and hasbeens. If we need to trade for a scrub bottom line winger or defenseman we can just trade 1st and 2nd round picks for them. We need a backup goalie? hey just sign Boucher or Leighton. Who cares about developing a prospect on the farm.
Yup sounds good to me

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02-10-2013, 07:22 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
You are right it could of been the difference that without that first we don't get Pronger, then we don't get to the SCF at all. We hardly ever add at the deadline, and don't swing it that we don't because we don't have the assets, we have more picks and more prospects we could trade if we wanted to. We are just not a team that makes moves at the deadline the moves we make are in the offseason.
2008- Prospal and Modry (I believe?)
2009- Caricillo (More of a subtraction and one of the worst deals ever but it's still a move at the deadline)
2010- No trades that I can remeber, but we added Krajicek somehow. EDIT: How did I forget Leino?
2011- Versteeg
2012- Grossmann and Kubina

Homer is always active at the deadline.


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