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HOH Top 40 Goaltenders of All Time

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Old
01-30-2013, 01:08 PM
  #126
CaptainCally
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I'd rank Hasek #1 and Roy #2, but that's just a matter of taste. I would also rank Lundqvist higher than Luongo. Lundqvist got a few records, Vezina and so on.

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01-31-2013, 05:24 PM
  #127
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I also have Hasek at number 1.

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01-31-2013, 09:06 PM
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCally View Post
I'd rank Hasek #1 and Roy #2, but that's just a matter of taste.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcbio11 View Post
I also have Hasek at number 1.
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...57&postcount=1


So did most of the voters going into the discussion.

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Old
01-31-2013, 09:42 PM
  #129
Rob Scuderi
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Originally Posted by quoipourquoi View Post
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...57&postcount=1


So did most of the voters going into the discussion.
And after it

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Old
02-08-2013, 03:47 PM
  #130
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Having only read the OP and jumping to the last page, would Hasek have finished #1 without that curious outlier?

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Old
02-08-2013, 03:50 PM
  #131
TheDevilMadeMe
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Going into the discussion, Hasek had a substantial lead over Roy - Roy was actually closer to #3 than he was to #1. After a long, detailed discussion, they were effectively tied. That's what seems to be lost in this endless discussion of a single vote - Hasek was pretty far above Roy going into the discussion phase and the discussions seemed to change enough minds to make it possible for a single vote to matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucky Gleason View Post
Having only read the OP and jumping to the last page, would Hasek have finished #1 without that curious outlier?
Tied with Roy with no "outlier." Read the results threat that is linked to the OP.

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Old
02-08-2013, 03:54 PM
  #132
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Tied with Roy with no "outlier." Read the results threat that is linked to the OP.
Thanks, sorry I missed it. Also, quotation marks? I wasn't implying anything, and it's clearly apart from the majority. Just a word .

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02-09-2013, 03:12 AM
  #133
TheDevilMadeMe
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Originally Posted by Bucky Gleason View Post
Thanks, sorry I missed it. Also, quotation marks? I wasn't implying anything, and it's clearly apart from the majority. Just a word .
No worries. I just find it funny that a 7th place vote for Hasek legitimately is a major outlier on hfboards, while it would be squarely in the mainstream (though on the low side of mainstream) in the general media.

Anyway, the links to all the source threads are at the bottom of the OP, except for the participant voting records, and they'll be added there as soon as they are all released.

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Old
02-09-2013, 08:57 AM
  #134
Dennis Bonvie
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
No worries. I just find it funny that a 7th place vote for Hasek legitimately is a major outlier on hfboards, while it would be squarely in the mainstream (though on the low side of mainstream) in the general media.
Anyway, the links to all the source threads are at the bottom of the OP, except for the participant voting records, and they'll be added there as soon as they are all released.
Is that really true?

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Old
02-09-2013, 09:02 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Dennis Bonvie View Post
Is that really true?
The traditional hockey media places a very high emphasis on team achievements like wins and Cups. Compare where Brodeur ranks here to where most journalists would put him.

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02-09-2013, 09:19 AM
  #136
Dennis Bonvie
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Originally Posted by GuineaPig View Post
The traditional hockey media places a very high emphasis on team achievements like wins and Cups. Compare where Brodeur ranks here to where most journalists would put him.
I know its true with Brodeur, but I don't recall many people in hockey, be it media or insiders, claiming Hasek was overrated or not a top 5 goalie.

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02-09-2013, 05:58 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Dennis Bonvie View Post
I know its true with Brodeur, but I don't recall many people in hockey, be it media or insiders, claiming Hasek was overrated or not a top 5 goalie.
I'm sure you're familiar with the THN lists. On their Top-60 since 1967 (2007), they put Patrick Roy and Martin Brodeur up with Mark Messier, Steve Yzerman, and Ray Bourque. They put Dominik Hasek down with Bobby Clarke, Paul Coffey, and Larry Robinson. Though with a different panel, these three players were placed similar to each other in 1998 (#24, #25, #29) - quite a bit behind Sawchuk, Plante, and Hall.

A more recent list in 2011 had Hasek behind all of Sawchuk, Roy, Brodeur, and Plante - but ahead of Hall. So they're not "claiming Hasek was overrated," but then again, I don't believe they have had a reaction to HFBoards at all - which as far as I can tell is the only place that had formerly placed him #1. So if the media or insiders do not know that someone is claiming Hasek to be the best of all-time, I can't imagine anyone would have written a piece arguing against a position that from their perspective, no one seems to have. But in recent months, some have claimed that he wasn't as good as Niklas Lidstrom in terms of best European players, so there seems to be a definite difference in the perception of Hasek here and elsewhere. The same can be said for Scott Niedermayer and Mark Messier.

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02-10-2013, 09:16 AM
  #138
Dennis Bonvie
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Originally Posted by quoipourquoi View Post
I'm sure you're familiar with the THN lists. On their Top-60 since 1967 (2007), they put Patrick Roy and Martin Brodeur up with Mark Messier, Steve Yzerman, and Ray Bourque. They put Dominik Hasek down with Bobby Clarke, Paul Coffey, and Larry Robinson. Though with a different panel, these three players were placed similar to each other in 1998 (#24, #25, #29) - quite a bit behind Sawchuk, Plante, and Hall.

A more recent list in 2011 had Hasek behind all of Sawchuk, Roy, Brodeur, and Plante - but ahead of Hall. So they're not "claiming Hasek was overrated," but then again, I don't believe they have had a reaction to HFBoards at all - which as far as I can tell is the only place that had formerly placed him #1. So if the media or insiders do not know that someone is claiming Hasek to be the best of all-time, I can't imagine anyone would have written a piece arguing against a position that from their perspective, no one seems to have. But in recent months, some have claimed that he wasn't as good as Niklas Lidstrom in terms of best European players, so there seems to be a definite difference in the perception of Hasek here and elsewhere. The same can be said for Scott Niedermayer and Mark Messier.
Thanks for that. I really am not familiar with the TNH lists. And I get The Hockey News!

I did hear on the Tampa Bay broadcast this week (playing the Devils) color analyst Bobbie Taylor suggest Martin Broduer could go down in history as the greatest goalie ever. Play-by-play man Rick Peckham replied "no could about it".

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Old
02-10-2013, 04:16 PM
  #139
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Recently I watched some old time classics, including the Canada Cup finals.

Conclusion: Tretyak definitely deserves the top spot.

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02-10-2013, 04:18 PM
  #140
Chalupa Batman
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Originally Posted by Yamaguchi View Post
Recently I watched some old time classics, including the Canada Cup finals.

Conclusion: Tretyak definitely deserves the top spot.
Tretiak deserves the top spot *of all time* based upon a handful of games?

Have you bothered to read the threads and the amount of work that went into this?

I guess all of that should be trumped by fewer than ten games.

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02-10-2013, 04:30 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
Tretiak deserves the top spot *of all time* based upon a handful of games?

Have you bothered to read the threads and the amount of work that went into this?

I guess all of that should be trumped by fewer than ten games.
I will give him that the threads are long, full of chit chat and maybe not the best use of everyone's time.

But it is a little sad that he doesn't even ask why Tretiak's not #1, just decides to tell us he's got it figured out.

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Old
02-10-2013, 04:30 PM
  #142
Yamaguchi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
Tretiak deserves the top spot *of all time* based upon a handful of games?

Have you bothered to read the threads and the amount of work that went into this?

I guess all of that should be trumped by fewer than ten games.

I am afraid I have to disagree with you.

Tretiak has played loads of great games against world's most talented teams and has been terrific and dominant in most of them.

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Old
02-10-2013, 04:34 PM
  #143
Mike Farkas
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Welp, I'm sold. Taco, unsticky the thread please. It's worthless...

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Old
02-10-2013, 04:40 PM
  #144
Chalupa Batman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamaguchi View Post
I am afraid I have to disagree with you.

Tretiak has played loads of great games against world's most talented teams and has been terrific and dominant in most of them.
Thanks for speaking up.

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Old
02-10-2013, 04:44 PM
  #145
Yamaguchi
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Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
Thanks for speaking up.
Always a pleasure, Sir

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Old
02-11-2013, 05:21 PM
  #146
MXD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamaguchi View Post
I am afraid I have to disagree with you.

Tretiak has played loads of great games against world's most talented teams and has been terrific and dominant in most of them.
He also was often outplayed by a guy who ended up lower than him on the list.

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Old
02-15-2013, 12:37 AM
  #147
Yamaguchi
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Have you got their head-to-head record?

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Old
02-15-2013, 02:27 AM
  #148
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Originally Posted by Yamaguchi View Post
I am afraid I have to disagree with you.

Tretiak has played loads of great games against world's most talented teams and has been terrific and dominant in most of them.
Bolded. I think that you could say that about many other great goalies on the list. And unlike some others, Tretiak always played for teams (the Soviet ntl team and CSKA) that were nearly always favoured to win their opponents; yet USSR was not the world champion in 1972, 1976 and 1977 and did not win the olympic gold in 1980. CSKA failed to win the Soviet league title in 1974 and 1976. Tretiak was also in goal when Czechoslovakia beat USSR 7-2 in the 1974 WC and 8-3 in the 1977 Izvestia tournament. Obviously, this is not all Tretiak's fault, but there are those occasions when he couldn't help his team to win...

I can understand that watching Tretiak's best games like the 1975 game vs. Montreal and the 1981 Canada Cup final (and there are many other great ones) might give the impression that he was 'the best of all-time'. But unfortunately, he did not always play like that; probably not even 'most of the time'.

e.g.

1979 Challenge Cup, game 2, the highlights (16 shots against, 4 goals against):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zvotpb8LuzU


Buffalo Sabres vs CSKA, 1980, the goals:

1-0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzLQNfZJzuM#t=10m10s 2-0
2-0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzLQNfZJzuM&t=24m45s
2-1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzLQNfZJzuM&t=87m52s
3-1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzLQNfZJzuM&t=90m40s
4-1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzLQNfZJzuM&t=99m58s
5-1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzLQNfZJzuM&t=102m14s
6-1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzLQNfZJzuM&t=108m15s


Last edited by VMBM: 02-15-2013 at 02:35 AM.
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Old
02-16-2013, 02:03 AM
  #149
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This list is absolutely perfect. I'm so glad we have a final source that can make knowledgeable decisions about player rankings. Hasek is probably my favorite player of all time but Roy deserves number one. He was a gamer like no other player. I'm also glad that compilers like Brodeur aren't rewarded on their stats. Marty is a legend but he ALWAYS had a great defense and thrived in an era when scoring was down.

Just out of curiosity, with Luongo and Thomas on the list, how long until Miller cracks the top 40? He's got the international credentials and he has outplayed some other guys on this list a number of times. I imagine by the time he retires he will be top 30...

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02-16-2013, 11:21 AM
  #150
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Originally Posted by buffalowing88 View Post
This list is absolutely perfect. I'm so glad we have a final source that can make knowledgeable decisions about player rankings. Hasek is probably my favorite player of all time but Roy deserves number one. He was a gamer like no other player. I'm also glad that compilers like Brodeur aren't rewarded on their stats. Marty is a legend but he ALWAYS had a great defense and thrived in an era when scoring was down.

Just out of curiosity, with Luongo and Thomas on the list, how long until Miller cracks the top 40? He's got the international credentials and he has outplayed some other guys on this list a number of times. I imagine by the time he retires he will be top 30...
I would say probably not if he plays out a few more years as a top-10 starter and then declines.

If he has a few more years like 2009-10, the sky's the limit.

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