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Ranger Prospect Poll #15

View Poll Results: Ranger Prospect #15
Thomas Pock (D) 28 27.18%
David Kveton (F) 1 0.97%
Billy Ryan (F) 2 1.94%
Dwight Helminen (F) 37 35.92%
Brodie Dupont (F) 3 2.91%
Dan Girardi (D) 4 3.88%
Tommy Pyatt (F) 22 21.36%
Ryan Russell (F) 3 2.91%
Zdenek Bahensky (F) 2 1.94%
Ryan Hillier (F) 1 0.97%
Voters: 103. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-06-2006, 01:21 PM
  #1
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Ranger Prospect Poll #15

New York Rangers Prospect List


#1 -- Marc Staal (D) - Playing for the Sudbury Wolves (OHL) - Selected 12th Overall in the 2005 Draft
#2 -- Al Montoya (G) - Playing for the Hartford Wolf Pack (AHL) - Selected 6th Overall in the 2004 Draft
#3 -- Jarkko Immonen (F) - Playing for the Hartford Wolf Pack (AHL) - Selected in the 8th Round by the Leafs in 2002.
#4 -- Brandon Dubinsky (F) - Playing for the Hartford Wolf Pack (AHL) - Drafted in the 2nd round in the 2004 Draft.
#5 -- Nigel Dawes (F) - Playing for the Hartford Wolf Pack (AHL) - Selected in the 5th round in the 2003 Draft.
#6 -- Lauri Korpikoski (F) - Playing for the Hartford Wolf Pack (AHL) - Selected 19th overall in the 2004 Draft.
#7 -- Bobby Sanguinetti (D) - Playing for Owen Sound Attack (OHL) - Drafted 21st overall in the 2006 Draft.
#8 -- Michael Sauer (D) - Playing for the Portland Winter Hawks (WHL) - Drafted in the 2nd round in the 2005 Draft.
#9 -- Greg Moore (F) - Playing for the Hartford Wolf Pack (AHL) - Drafted in the 5th Round in the 2003 Draft by the Flames.
#10 - Hugh Jessiman (F) - Playing for the Hartford Wolf Pack (AHL) - Selected 12th overall in the 2003 Draft.
#11 - Ivan Baranka (D) - Playing for the Hartford Wolf Pack (AHL) - Drafted in the 2nd round in the 2003 Draft.
#12 - Artem Anisimov (F) - Playing for Yaroslavl Lokomotiv (RSL) - Drafted in the 2nd round in the 2006 Draft.
#13 - Marc-André Cliche (F) - Playing for the Lewiston MAINEiacs (QMJHL) - Drafted in the 2nd Round in the 2005 Draft.
#14 - Ryan Callahan (F) - Playing for the Hartford Wolf Pack (AHL) - Drafted in the 4th Round in the 2004 Draft.
[image]http://ordinaryleastsquare.typepad.com/blueshirtbulletin/images/callahanryan.jpg[/image]


Please say who you want added next
Added this round: David Kveton
Nominations: David Liffton(11), Darin Olver(11), Eric Hunter(4), Chris Holt(4), Jake Taylor(1), Dane Byers(1), Corey Potter(1)
#14 Prospect Results


Alright....Dwight gets my vote. I was thinking Pyatt but Pyatts still got a very long road of uncertainties while Dwights is clearer.


Last edited by FLYLine24*: 07-06-2006 at 02:29 PM.
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Old
07-06-2006, 01:25 PM
  #2
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Helminen (then Pyatt, Dupont, Russell, Kveton, Potter)

Add Potter

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07-06-2006, 01:26 PM
  #3
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So many of these are just a wild guess at this point.

Some guys have higher offensive upsides, some guys are more physical, some aren't nearly as flashy but seem to be more likely NHL players.

You could put any of these guys in different orders and not really be "wrong".

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07-06-2006, 01:27 PM
  #4
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voted for Dupont. Add Hunter

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Old
07-06-2006, 01:28 PM
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BTW, I think Potter really needs to be shown some more love. He had a great college career and really looks like he'll be an NHLer.

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07-06-2006, 01:32 PM
  #6
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Add Olver.

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Old
07-06-2006, 01:49 PM
  #7
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Helminen. Add Potter.

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07-06-2006, 01:52 PM
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Edge convinced me to vote for Helminen, even if he wasn't necessarily trying to.

And I'm going to be a fly in the ointment and say add Byers. This is a good spot for a guy whose upside is as a 4th line winger and who is quietly progressing in the AHL. Don't underestimate 4th liners with limited offense. Kirk Maltby's career is a heck of a lot more impressive than, say, Cliff Ronning's. But that's just my opinion.

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Old
07-06-2006, 02:40 PM
  #9
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Voted Lord Helmet, add Darin 'O without the "I" ' Olver

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Old
07-06-2006, 02:47 PM
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Girardi, add Holt

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Old
07-06-2006, 02:48 PM
  #11
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although I like Pyatt better Callahan is not bad at 14. So Pyatt again. And we still need to add Olver.

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07-06-2006, 03:15 PM
  #12
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Voted Pyatt, add Byers.

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07-06-2006, 03:33 PM
  #13
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Voted Helminen, add Olver, the kid can play.

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07-06-2006, 03:43 PM
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This is getting stupid. How does Pock fall this far? He is the most NHL ready out of anyone left. He has a great season last year even getting a few call ups. Yeah yeah yeah he's not that great defensively but he has to get a shot to see what he can do on the offensive side of the puck. There are other players I can think of that aren't very good defensively who play thier role of offensive dmen pretty well. Tverdovsky, Ozo, Krajicek...........I don't think you will see any of these guys on the top PK unit, but they would look nice on the point of a PP. I remember Zubov wasn't that great on the defensive side when he first broke into the NHL but he LEARNED didn't he?

Just some of the names being thrown ahead of him is just silly now. Potter, Byers, Olver, Kveton?????????? These guys aren't even close the the point in development as Pock is. Wasn't there just a thread recently about Potter maybe not even being offered a contract along with Crabb and now he's better than Pock? PLZ stop the Pock bashing.

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07-06-2006, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
So many of these are just a wild guess at this point.

Some guys have higher offensive upsides, some guys are more physical, some aren't nearly as flashy but seem to be more likely NHL players.

You could put any of these guys in different orders and not really be "wrong".
I disagree, Pock falling this far already is WRONG. For him to fall even further is just even more wrong. I don't know why but I think Pock has taken over the Tom Poti role with the fans on this club. Offensive dmen aren't easy to come by people and this kid looks like he could be a good one.

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Old
07-06-2006, 03:47 PM
  #16
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Voted Helminen. In a funny way, the sudden upsurge in quality of our prospect pool has made these polls harder. Really any of these guys could be better than any of the other ones when all is said and done.

Add Liffiton.

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Old
07-06-2006, 03:50 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
This is getting stupid. How does Pock fall this far? He is the most NHL ready out of anyone left. He has a great season last year even getting a few call ups. Yeah yeah yeah he's not that great defensively but he has to get a shot to see what he can do on the offensive side of the puck. There are other players I can think of that aren't very good defensively who play thier role of offensive dmen pretty well. Tverdovsky, Ozo, Krajicek...........I don't think you will see any of these guys on the top PK unit, but they would look nice on the point of a PP. I remember Zubov wasn't that great on the defensive side when he first broke into the NHL but he LEARNED didn't he?

Just some of the names being thrown ahead of him is just silly now. Potter, Byers, Olver, Kveton?????????? These guys aren't even close the the point in development as Pock is. Wasn't there just a thread recently about Potter maybe not even being offered a contract along with Crabb and now he's better than Pock? PLZ stop the Pock bashing.
It strikes me that there is a growing body of opinion on this board that Pöck will top out as only a marginal NHL'er. Not that that is bound to be the case, but increasingly he looks a lot more like Joel Bouchard than Kim Johnsson.

Dewey still has the glow of a great stretch last season. Plus, we've never seen him in the NHL, so we're all hoping he turns out to be the next Todd Marchant or Niko Kapanen or someone like that.

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07-06-2006, 03:52 PM
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add oliver

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Old
07-06-2006, 04:17 PM
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Funny how Pock gets no love. He's our closest "young" defenseman to being ready to step in and play, yet he keeps getting past over for the new flavors of the day.

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07-06-2006, 04:39 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
I disagree, Pock falling this far already is WRONG. For him to fall even further is just even more wrong. I don't know why but I think Pock has taken over the Tom Poti role with the fans on this club. Offensive dmen aren't easy to come by people and this kid looks like he could be a good one.
Depends on how you view him.

Personally I find the kid to be well below average at the AHL level for playing defense, at the NHL level I see him being even worse.

So for me even if he can put up 10 goals and 40 points at the NHL level, it does no good if he's a disaster defensivly. Having watched him in Hartford for a few years, I don't see it any other way unless something changes.

I see a lot more Slaney, Hawgood and Mottau in him than an NHL puck moving defenseman.

Poti wasn't great defensivly, but Pock is barely his defensive equivalent at the AHL level. That just does not appear to be a good indication for the NHL level.

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07-06-2006, 04:47 PM
  #21
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Funny how Pock gets no love. He's our closest "young" defenseman to being ready to step in and play, yet he keeps getting past over for the new flavors of the day.
I gotta disagree with you on this one Brandon.

Simply put a lot of people just do not see the ability to play defense. It's been scary to watch at the AHL level and i don't think it's going to get better at the NHL level.

Pock just has never really advanced to that next level that seperates even the defenseman at the NHL level who are below average defenders from the guys who are even worse and thus right on the border.

The guys like Mike Mottau who put up the equivalent of similar numbers in a less open AHL a few years back, or the Greg Hawgoods or the John Slaney's of the minor league world.

The question really isn't whether he can move the puck and create offense, the question is whether he can actually provide what the position is named for, "defense".

I think a lot of people have serious concerns about that and Pock is reaching that age where if he's not getting better at his weak points, will he ever?

For all the talk that the Rangers somehow have some great hidden talent they've ignored, the kid went undrafted, was signed as a Free Agent and has been passed over several times since than. Even this season the feeling within the organization is that they'd rather go with other defenseman. Anaheim didn't want him and preferred Kondratiev to him in trade talks.

At some point, we've gotta be honest and realize there are some serious concerns and questions with this kid that have not been addressed.

He's the most NHL ready by default almost. He's also one of the Rangers older prospects as well.

The question comes down to whether you think his offense will be enough to provide for some pretty poor defense, and keep in mind it was judged poor at the AHL level not even the NHL yet.

If you do, than he's possibly an NHL'er. But if you don't, than you probably don't think he's an NHL player and if that's what you believe than he's probably not going to be very high on the list.

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07-06-2006, 05:37 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
I gotta disagree with you on this one Brandon.

Simply put a lot of people just do not see the ability to play defense. It's been scary to watch at the AHL level and i don't think it's going to get better at the NHL level.

Pock just has never really advanced to that next level that seperates even the defenseman at the NHL level who are below average defenders from the guys who are even worse and thus right on the border.

The guys like Mike Mottau who put up the equivalent of similar numbers in a less open AHL a few years back, or the Greg Hawgoods or the John Slaney's of the minor league world.

The question really isn't whether he can move the puck and create offense, the question is whether he can actually provide what the position is named for, "defense".

I think a lot of people have serious concerns about that and Pock is reaching that age where if he's not getting better at his weak points, will he ever?

For all the talk that the Rangers somehow have some great hidden talent they've ignored, the kid went undrafted, was signed as a Free Agent and has been passed over several times since than. Even this season the feeling within the organization is that they'd rather go with other defenseman. Anaheim didn't want him and preferred Kondratiev to him in trade talks.

At some point, we've gotta be honest and realize there are some serious concerns and questions with this kid that have not been addressed.

He's the most NHL ready by default almost. He's also one of the Rangers older prospects as well.

The question comes down to whether you think his offense will be enough to provide for some pretty poor defense, and keep in mind it was judged poor at the AHL level not even the NHL yet.

If you do, than he's possibly an NHL'er. But if you don't, than you probably don't think he's an NHL player and if that's what you believe than he's probably not going to be very high on the list.

The games I seen Pock play he wasn't THAT bad Edge. Yeah he had Lapses like any other learning player like Tyutin this year but thats to be expected even more so with Pock considering he is a defender that use to be a foward. IMO he should get more breaks for his lapses than a guy like Tyutin (who has played D his whole career) but he just doesn't get that from the fans for some reason.

I'm not saying he will ever be a Norris candidate, but I think if given the chance he has the talent and smarts (He went to a good college he should be smart) to be a PP QB specalist and play decent mins on the 3rd pairing. Teams that believe they have a shot at winning trade for these kind of players. Avs with Ozo and just recently the Flames with Krajicek. The Canes has Tverdovsky with them for thier run even though he was used very little. The point is these kind of players are valuable because there aren't a lot like them.

And I also find it laughable that this new guy we took in the first round, Speghetti or whatever seems to project to almost what we are talking about here yet he is in the top 10.


Last edited by Radek27: 07-06-2006 at 05:46 PM. Reason: typo
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Old
07-06-2006, 05:40 PM
  #23
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Why is Russell not getting any attention? He had a great year last year. He should be getting some votes. Well he got my vote.

Russell. Add Olver.

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07-06-2006, 05:57 PM
  #24
Edge
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The games I seen Pock play he wasn't THAT bad Edge. Yeah he had Lapses like any other learning player like Tyutin this year but thats to be expected even more so with Pock considering he is a defender that use to be a foward. IMO he should get more breaks for his lapses than a guy like Tyutin (who has played D his whole career) but he just doesn't get that from the fans for some reason.
The problem is that whether it's fair because he switched to forward or not doesn't change the reality of the problem.

I also have to disagree about having lapses like Tyutin. Tyutin had them, at the NHL level but I honestly believe and feel that Pock had more at an even lower level of competition.

Tyutin also had less when he was in the AHL a few years back.

Quote:
I'm not saying he will ever be a Norris candidate, but I think if given the chance he has the talent and smarts (He went to a good college he should be smart) to be a PP QB specalist and play decent mins on the 3rd pairing. Teams that believe they have a shot at winning trade for these kind of players. Avs with Ozo and just recently the Flames with Krajicek. The Canes has Tverdovsky with them for thier run even though he was used very little. The point is these kind of players are valuable because there aren't a lot like them.
Pock is just not on the same level as those guys though. Which is exactly my point. If you're going to play that game, you've got to bring something to the table that can compensate. Pock is good at the AHL level offensivly, but he's not putting in 85 points where you're willing to take the trade off.

The problem with some of these comparisons is that Pock is playing at a lower level and making more mistakes. That's not going to be an equal translation to the NHL, it's going to go up.

It's like comparing a guy who hits .220 with 25 HR's at the major league level with a guy doing the same at Triple A.

Quote:
And I also find it laughable that this new guy we took in the first round, Speghetti or whatever seems to project to almost what we are talking about here yet he is in the top 10.
Once again, big difference in terms of ability. Sanguinetti has work to do defensivly but he's far more advanced than Pock was at the same age. And you're talking about 7 years difference as well.

Just because they are both offensive defenseman, does not mean they play the same game.

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Old
07-06-2006, 09:31 PM
  #25
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Helminen. add Liffiton

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