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Homer's Odyssey

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02-10-2013, 08:27 PM
  #76
GoneFullHextall
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan8828 View Post
2008- Prospal and Modry (I believe?)
2009- Caricillo (More of a subtraction and one of the worst deals ever but it's still a move at the deadline)
2010- No trades that I can remeber, but we added Krajicek somehow.
2011- Versteeg
2012- Grossmann and Kubina

Homer is always active at the deadline.
you could argue that only one of those has worked out.


Last edited by GoneFullHextall: 02-10-2013 at 08:36 PM. Reason: one*
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02-10-2013, 08:32 PM
  #77
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Why do the Flyers have to choose between a contender NHL team and a reasonable prospect pool? CHI, DET, and PIT all have great NHL teams and non-embarrassing AHL squads. Hint: It's because our GM is overrated and mediocre.

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02-10-2013, 08:35 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Why do the Flyers have to choose between a contender NHL team and a reasonable prospect pool? CHI, DET, and PIT all have great NHL teams and non-embarrassing AHL squads. Hint: It's because our GM is overrated and mediocre.
This. I am not asking for a damn Calder Cup contending team down there. It would be nice just to have some decent talent down there that isnt a AHL vet.

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02-10-2013, 08:36 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan8828 View Post
2008- Prospal and Modry (I believe?)
2009- Caricillo (More of a subtraction and one of the worst deals ever but it's still a move at the deadline)
2010- No trades that I can remeber, but we added Krajicek somehow.
2011- Versteeg
2012- Grossmann and Kubina

Homer is always active at the deadline.
Come on. Yes, this was not a good trade. But its impact was minimal, at best. Since that trade Scottie Upshall has put up a staggering 85 points compared to Carcillo's 44. Yes there was that ever so valuable 2nd round pick that turned into the generational talent Lucas Lessio, but this doesn't even come close to making the list of worst deals ever. This trade doesn't even make the list of trades that are close to being on that list.

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02-10-2013, 08:39 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
you could argue that onle one of those has worked out.
I was mainly pointing out that he was wrong in saying "we hardly makes moves at the deadline". But...

Prospal and Modry helped us get to the ECF 1 year after being the worst team in the NHL.

As much as I hate Carcillo, he did score a big OT goal in the playoffs vs NJ in 2010. But still a terrible trade.

Leino had 21 points in 19 GP in the 2010 playoffs and had a very good 2011 season.

Grossmann is one of out best defenseman so far this year.

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02-10-2013, 08:43 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Why do the Flyers have to choose between a contender NHL team and a reasonable prospect pool? CHI, DET, and PIT all have great NHL teams and non-embarrassing AHL squads. Hint: It's because our GM is overrated and mediocre.
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
This. I am not asking for a damn Calder Cup contending team down there. It would be nice just to have some decent talent down there that isnt a AHL vet.
In general, I think GMs are overrated. Jim Rutherford is an absolutely wretched GM, but the one time he fired his coach it won him a Cup. I don't think anyone would trade Holmgren for Brian Burke either. Burke got overrated by the Leafs because Scott Niedermayer wanted to play with his terrible brother. He got lucky too.

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02-10-2013, 08:45 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Come on. Yes, this was not a good trade. But its impact was minimal, at best. Since that trade Scottie Upshall has put up a staggering 85 points compared to Carcillo's 44. Yes there was that ever so valuable 2nd round pick that turned into the generational talent Lucas Lessio, but this doesn't even come close to making the list of worst deals ever. This trade doesn't even make the list of trades that are close to being on that list.
Fine maybe I was exaggerating a little but it's still a bad trade. Upshall was clearly the better player and yes that 2nd turned into a nobody, but the Flyers could have used it better by either drafting someone else or trading it for a better player.

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02-10-2013, 08:46 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Come on. Yes, this was not a good trade. But its impact was minimal, at best. Since that trade Scottie Upshall has put up a staggering 85 points compared to Carcillo's 44. Yes there was that ever so valuable 2nd round pick that turned into the generational talent Lucas Lessio, but this doesn't even come close to making the list of worst deals ever. This trade doesn't even make the list of trades that are close to being on that list.
I honestly can't wait for the day that Upshall retires so Flyers fans can stop complaining about trading him.

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02-10-2013, 08:49 PM
  #84
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People complain about Upshall, because we added a draft pick and traded away the better player. That was your typical "FLYERS HOCKEY" trade to make sure the dinosaurs stopped crying about there being not enough fights, and "toughness" or something

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02-10-2013, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan8828 View Post
I was mainly pointing out that he was wrong in saying "we hardly makes moves at the deadline". But...

Prospal and Modry helped us get to the ECF 1 year after being the worst team in the NHL.

As much as I hate Carcillo, he did score a big OT goal in the playoffs vs NJ in 2010. But still a terrible trade.

Leino had 21 points in 19 GP in the 2010 playoffs and had a very good 2011 season.

Grossmann is one of out best defenseman so far this year.
I had actually forgotten about the Leino deal. That was a fantastic deal that worked out well.
Prospal was ok that playoff run. I thought Modry was Modry. terrible.
I agree the Grossman trade worked out well. He signed a nice deal and he should help us out.
I hated the Kubina deal at the time it was made and I still hated it. That trade almost negated the Grossman deal.

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02-10-2013, 09:01 PM
  #86
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So what? The move singlehandedly put us in position for a stanley cup. The Ducks have Emerson Etem and Kyle Palmieri as a result of the 2 firsts we gave them.
That move should not have been made without a solid option in net. It was a move made to put us over the top without us being in that position. It was billed as the final piece to the puzzle, and in reality, it was the penultimate piece while the final piece never came.

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02-10-2013, 09:03 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Why do the Flyers have to choose between a contender NHL team and a reasonable prospect pool? CHI, DET, and PIT all have great NHL teams and non-embarrassing AHL squads. Hint: It's because our GM is overrated and mediocre.
Pittsburgh and Chicago were also in the ******* for a number of years. Something that's happened to us once in the past 15 years.

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02-10-2013, 09:04 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by chimrichalds18 View Post
That move should not have been made without a solid option in net. It was a move made to put us over the top without us being in that position. It was billed as the final piece to the puzzle, and in reality, it was the penultimate piece while the final piece never came.
That's an excellent way of putting it. I'd even throw in depth defensemen considering who we were running out there. Pronger was worn out by the Finals, and it affected him the next season too, for some reason he gets a pass while Carter and Richards don't.

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02-10-2013, 09:07 PM
  #89
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Pittsburgh and Chicago were also in the ******* for a number of years. Something that's happened to us once in the past 15 years.
Both of those teams have been good for half a dozen years. and there prospect pool is still better then the Flyers. Along with just about everyone else. Like Detroit, Vancouver,NYR. You know playoff teams.

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02-10-2013, 09:09 PM
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Pittsburgh and Chicago were also in the ******* for a number of years. Something that's happened to us once in the past 15 years.
And one reason is because they focus on strength within the organization. Kris Letang, Max Talbot, Rob Scuderi, and Tyler Kennedy showing up had nothing to do with losing games. And you can't even blame "tanking" for Jordan Staal, because they signed a bunch of free agents the previous off-season. Likewise Duncan Keith, Kris Versteeg, Dave Bolland, Dustin Byfuglien, and Niklas Hjalmarsson.

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02-10-2013, 09:09 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
People complain about Upshall, because we added a draft pick and traded away the better player. That was your typical "FLYERS HOCKEY" trade to make sure the dinosaurs stopped crying about there being not enough fights, and "toughness" or something
Meh. Upshall is one of the more overrated players in Flyers lore. The second rounder people complain about a lot, but Upshall is also spoken of as if the team would have won a Cup if that trade wasn't made. Upshall is an energy player who can't stay healthy. His value is and was minimal. Rinaldo, Powe, Carcillo, Nodl, Harry Z, and Wellwood are all guys that played the same role he was playing here. Some played it better. Some worse. Some the same. But he was not an integral part of this team then and wouldn't be now.

As I said earlier, the trade was certainly not a good one, but the effect it had on the team then and on future teams is insignificant.

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02-10-2013, 09:12 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Meh. Upshall is one of the more overrated players in Flyers lore. The second rounder people complain about a lot, but Upshall is also spoken of as if the team would have won a Cup if that trade wasn't made. Upshall is an energy player who can't stay healthy. His value is and was minimal. Rinaldo, Powe, Carcillo, Nodl, Harry Z, and Wellwood are all guys that played the same role he was playing here. Some played it better. Some worse. Some the same. But he was not an integral part of this team then and wouldn't be now.

As I said earlier, the trade was certainly not a good one, but the effect it had on the team then and on future teams is insignificant.
To me at least, it's not about Upshall himself. It's about trading away the better player and a pick for a worse player just for a few hundred thousand dollars in cap space.

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02-10-2013, 09:15 PM
  #93
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To me at least, it's not about Upshall himself. It's about trading away the better player and a pick for a worse player just for a few hundred thousand dollars in cap space.
This.

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02-10-2013, 09:17 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Go For It View Post
To me at least, it's not about Upshall himself. It's about trading away the better player and a pick for a worse player just for a few hundred thousand dollars in cap space.
That's fair. I still don't think that the negative effects of this trade were all that serious. I've said it a million times before on here, Homer has made good moves, and Homer has made bad moves. Even if you want to argue that Homer has made more bad than good moves (a statement that I would not in any way agree with), the effect of his good moves far outweigh his bad moves. I wouldn't call him the best GM in the league, but he is nowhere near the worst.

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02-10-2013, 09:17 PM
  #95
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The Flyers took their shot with Pronger the same way that the Kings took a shot with Richards. Flyers lost in the Stanley Cup. The Kings won. These trades shouldn't be evaluated with hindsight. They were both overpays for a shot at the cup. Fans shouldn't be surprised when a team has a weak farm system and contends regularly. Not that the two are mutually exclusive but it's a price that you have to pay for regular contention.

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02-10-2013, 09:21 PM
  #96
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To me at least, it's not about Upshall himself. It's about trading away the better player and a pick for a worse player just for a few hundred thousand dollars in cap space.
They traded Upshall because he was a running mate of Richards and Carter. Even adding Lupul to the casualties didn't straighten them out. Get over all of it.

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02-10-2013, 09:23 PM
  #97
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Why do the Flyers have to choose between a contender NHL team and a reasonable prospect pool? CHI, DET, and PIT all have great NHL teams and non-embarrassing AHL squads. Hint: It's because our GM is overrated and mediocre.
Detroit were good, not too much anymore now their core has aged but they're the archetypal great franchise that everyone else wants to be. Both Chicago and Pittsburgh however spent years at the bottom end of the league building up top 3 draft picks to make themselves good.

If you want to do that then by all means do. Don't for a second suggest its down to good management though!!

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02-10-2013, 09:24 PM
  #98
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No, it's not. That's a myth Flyers fans want to believe because they don't want to admit the last 15 years the team has been run by a couple of incompetent GMs that are stuck in the 70s-80s.

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02-10-2013, 09:26 PM
  #99
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That's fair. I still don't think that the negative effects of this trade were all that serious. I've said it a million times before on here, Homer has made good moves, and Homer has made bad moves. Even if you want to argue that Homer has made more bad than good moves (a statement that I would not in any way agree with), the effect of his good moves far outweigh his bad moves. I wouldn't call him the best GM in the league, but he is nowhere near the worst.
I agree. There aren't too many GM's I'd take over Homer.

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02-10-2013, 09:26 PM
  #100
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Detroit were good, not too much anymore now their core has aged but they're the archetypal great franchise that everyone else wants to be. Both Chicago and Pittsburgh however spent years at the bottom end of the league building up top 3 draft picks to make themselves good.

If you want to do that then by all means do. Don't for a second suggest its down to good management though!!
The Pittsburgh farm system has NOTHING to do with their tank years. Not one player there was acquired before 2009 when they were in the midst of back to back cup runs. Chicago has no one on the Wolves from pre-2010.

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