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Old
02-10-2013, 12:14 AM
  #101
TrillMike
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
Why have we not tried to use Benn as a PPQB?

Or better yet, Jagr?
#Gully. Last night Eriksson was on the point for an offensive PP draw. I really don't like Benn playing a Holmstrom role on the PP.

If they want to play an umbrella PP, I'd ideally like to see it look like this (formatting umbrellas style looks weird):


Morrow*
Jagr
Benn

Eriksson
Goose*

*Morrow:maybe a puck goes off his ass
*Goose: maybe he'll start producing more

Hell, this is really unconventional, but what if they set it up with Daley in front. He's been really good at putting the puck past Kari/Turco during his time here lol.

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Old
02-10-2013, 12:17 AM
  #102
LatvianTwist
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Am I wrong in saying Pietrangelo reminds me a lot of Zubov? My memory of his style is fuzzy, though.

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Old
02-10-2013, 12:22 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
Am I wrong in saying Pietrangelo reminds me a lot of Zubov? My memory of his style is fuzzy, though.
I think Pieterangelo is better defensively and Zubov was better offensively. Damn I wish we had Pieterangelo.

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02-10-2013, 07:06 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
Am I wrong in saying Pietrangelo reminds me a lot of Zubov? My memory of his style is fuzzy, though.
from what i remember, he had ribeiro's patience, slipperiness, and ability to slow the game down, combined with ray whitney-like offensive awareness. he was very good at reading and exploiting defenders' stick/body positions, ostensibly to create some time and space. not the hardest of shots, but accurate and hard enough.

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02-10-2013, 07:10 PM
  #105
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I'm going to get absolutely bent over for saying this... Zubov was JUST under Lidstrom. Absolutely phenomenal defenseman, and had he been on a more 'prolific' team during his whole career I really think he would get the credit he deserves.

The guy could do whatever he wanted on the ice whenever he wanted, and he'd smoke during the intermissions. His defensive play was fantastic. Stick awareness was great, awesome pokecheck, solid body position, could read everything coming and intercept it, and he wasn't afraid to hit.

One of the greatest defenseman in the offensive zone in NHL history as well.

Flame away.

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02-10-2013, 07:37 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Cin View Post
I'm going to get absolutely bent over for saying this... Zubov was JUST under Lidstrom. Absolutely phenomenal defenseman, and had he been on a more 'prolific' team during his whole career I really think he would get the credit he deserves.

The guy could do whatever he wanted on the ice whenever he wanted, and he'd smoke during the intermissions. His defensive play was fantastic. Stick awareness was great, awesome pokecheck, solid body position, could read everything coming and intercept it, and he wasn't afraid to hit.

One of the greatest defenseman in the offensive zone in NHL history as well.

Flame away.
why would anyone flame you for that?

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02-10-2013, 07:40 PM
  #107
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Zubov was definitely underrated. Not sure he was quite that good, but definitely around there.

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02-10-2013, 07:51 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by txomisc View Post
why would anyone flame you for that?
Just expect it after I took that argument to the main board a couple of months ago.

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Old
02-10-2013, 07:55 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Cin View Post
Just expect it after I took that argument to the main board a couple of months ago.
Stay away ... bad for your mental health. Problem solved.

Zubov was one the best to play the position for over a decade. He just played at a time when the GOAT at his position played, and some other really great defenders were also playing then too.

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02-10-2013, 09:30 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Cin View Post
I'm going to get absolutely bent over for saying this... Zubov was JUST under Lidstrom. Absolutely phenomenal defenseman, and had he been on a more 'prolific' team during his whole career I really think he would get the credit he deserves.

The guy could do whatever he wanted on the ice whenever he wanted, and he'd smoke during the intermissions. His defensive play was fantastic. Stick awareness was great, awesome pokecheck, solid body position, could read everything coming and intercept it, and he wasn't afraid to hit.

One of the greatest defenseman in the offensive zone in NHL history as well.

Flame away.
I agree with this. Always have. Never saw Lidstrom as being much better if at all. His legend grew as he was able to stay healthy in to his twilight years and Detroit was a conistent contender. Zubov had injury problems, played for Dallas, and just didnt garner much attention at all.

Lidstrom was a bit more steady earlier on in their careers whereas Zubov had to become better defensively, though he was never bad.

Guys like Lidstrom, Pronger, and Niedermayer always got more attention but Zubov was always in that class. I rank him above Niedermayer in fact.

Lidstrom is more than likely one of the top 6 defenseman of all time based on his consistency and his accolades. On the History of Hockey page when they did the top 60 defensemen list, Zubov didnt even make the cut while Niedermayer was in the 20s which is an absolute joke. Zubov in my mind is better than Niedermayer, but if you wanna rank him below he certainly isnt 40 positions below nor is he 60 positions below Lidstrom. Shows you he truly is one of the most underrated players of all time.


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Old
02-10-2013, 10:03 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cin View Post
I'm going to get absolutely bent over for saying this... Zubov was JUST under Lidstrom. Absolutely phenomenal defenseman, and had he been on a more 'prolific' team during his whole career I really think he would get the credit he deserves.

The guy could do whatever he wanted on the ice whenever he wanted, and he'd smoke during the intermissions. His defensive play was fantastic. Stick awareness was great, awesome pokecheck, solid body position, could read everything coming and intercept it, and he wasn't afraid to hit.

One of the greatest defenseman in the offensive zone in NHL history as well.

Flame away.
I can't speak to the history part but I agree with the rest. The fact that he really avoided the media seemingly at all costs didn't help him get the credit he deserved either. Fair or not, those things matter and guys like Lidstrom and Niedermayer (who I think was quite clearly an inferior player to Zubov) gave an interview at virtually every request.

Judging from a few polls on the main forum and other conversations with people Zubov just doesn't get the credit he deserves. The name you always hear mentioned as being in the same tier as one another is Gonchar, and personally I think Zubov was clearly a level above him.

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02-10-2013, 10:11 PM
  #112
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anti-smoking bias i say!

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Old
02-10-2013, 10:56 PM
  #113
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Oh wow. Didn't expect many to agree with me on that!

Definitely think Gonchar is a far inferior player to Zubov.

Niedermayer was damn good, but I think Zubov was above him for sure.

I genuinely believe he was on the Same level as Lidstrom, and quite honestly I think he moved the puck better than him. Lidstrom was definitely more rounded though.

Truly do miss Zubie... Absolute legend.

All of that being said I think Karlsson has the same type of vision Zubov had. He's obviously got a lot more weapons in his arsenal as well. If he would learn how to defend there's no question he could become the greatest in my mind. He's very fun to watch.

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Old
02-10-2013, 11:06 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Cin View Post
Oh wow. Didn't expect many to agree with me on that!

Definitely think Gonchar is a far inferior player to Zubov.

Niedermayer was damn good, but I think Zubov was above him for sure.

I genuinely believe he was on the Same level as Lidstrom, and quite honestly I think he moved the puck better than him. Lidstrom was definitely more rounded though.

Truly do miss Zubie... Absolute legend.

All of that being said I think Karlsson has the same type of vision Zubov had. He's obviously got a lot more weapons in his arsenal as well. If he would learn how to defend there's no question he could become the greatest in my mind. He's very fun to watch.
I would say yes Zubov was better at skating up ice with the puck. Lidstrom's strengths were his first pass and manning the point. He was good but not superior at actually taking the puck up the ice himself and breaking in like Zubov, Bourque, Coffey, Orr, Leetch, Housley.

Karlsson can be a great if he stays at a high level for as long as the others we're mentioning, but the greatest - thats a giant stretch. Even cracking the top 20 is a
mighty task.

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02-10-2013, 11:10 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by tjcurrie View Post
I would say yes Zubov was better at skating up ice with the puck. Lidstrom's strengths were his first pass and manning the point. He was good but not superior at actually taking the puck up the ice himself and breaking in like Zubov, Bourque, Coffey, Orr, Leetch, Housley.

Karlsson can be a great if he stays at a high level for as long as the others we're mentioning, but the greatest - thats a giant stretch. Even cracking the top 20 is a
mighty task.
Spot on. Those were the others coming to mind for me as well. I think Zubie did it better than all of them though given his era of hockey, and the skill he was up against. The man was a one man breakout.

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02-10-2013, 11:10 PM
  #116
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Zubov is my Jesus. Lidstrom is the best overall defenseman of the past 20 years (maybe ever), but I enjoyed watching Zubov more.

Zubov was amazing. His skill level was out of this world. Since Hull didn't play for the Stars in his prime, I can say Zubov is the best player this franchise has had. Lehtinen is a close second.


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Old
02-10-2013, 11:13 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Troy McClure View Post
Zubov is my Jesus. Lidstrom is the best overall defenseman of the past 20 years (maybe ever), but I enjoyed watching Zubov more.

Zubov was amazing. His skill level was out of this world. Since Hull didn't play for the Stars in his prime, I can say Zubov is the best player this franchise had had. Lehtinen is a close second.
Totally feel ya 100%. Bolded as well.

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02-10-2013, 11:35 PM
  #118
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Spot on. Those were the others coming to mind for me as well. I think Zubie did it better than all of them though given his era of hockey, and the skill he was up against. The man was a one man breakout.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy McClure View Post
Zubov is my Jesus. Lidstrom is the best overall defenseman of the past 20 years (maybe ever), but I enjoyed watching Zubov more.

Zubov was amazing. His skill level was out of this world. Since Hull didn't play for the Stars in his prime, I can say Zubov is the best player this franchise has had. Lehtinen is a close second.
Well Bobby Orr was easily the best at it. You can debate the others after that but the next best is probably Coffey. Lidstrom has to be the best defenseman to come in to the league since Ray Bourque in '79. No others since would rank quite as high. Orr, Bourque, and Potvin are my top 3 of all time. After them in no order you could throw in Harvey, Robinson, and Lidstrom. People say Shore but I never like ranking pre-50s.

I will always say Modano is the greatest player we've had, but I could see an argument for Zubie. And just the fact that he was so underappreciated makes you love him even more.

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02-10-2013, 11:39 PM
  #119
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Well Bobby Orr was easily the best at it. You can debate the others after that but the next best is probably Coffey. Lidstrom has to be the best defenseman to come in to the league since Ray Bourque in '79. No others since would rank quite as high. Orr, Bourque, and Potvin are my top 3 of all time. After them in no order you could throw in Harvey, Robinson, and Lidstrom. People say Shore but I never like ranking pre-50s.

I will always say Modano is the greatest player we've had, but I could see an argument for Zubie. And just the fact that he was so underappreciated makes you love him even more.
I say Zubov because of the wealth of talent that's in the league now and when he was in. I mean honestly... There wasn't as much saturation when Bobby played. He revolutionized the position! Zubie did it all in a strong, strong league.

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02-11-2013, 12:02 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Cin View Post
I say Zubov because of the wealth of talent that's in the league now and when he was in. I mean honestly... There wasn't as much saturation when Bobby played. He revolutionized the position! Zubie did it all in a strong, strong league.
I know what youre saying, and its a valid point, but Bobby Orr was just simply the greatest. And itll probably remain that way until God puts on skates. Players werent as trained from top to bottom as they have been the last 15 years or so, but even against the upper eschilon teams like Montreal, Philadelphia, Buffalo, etc he was the man. The only guys who even compared to Orr's skating were probably Guy Lafleur, Bobby Hull, and Gilbert Perreault. Even when the 80s came around and Bourque and Coffey broke in, nobody compared to Orr as far as defensemen being able to go end to end with the puck.

Tough to compare eras but Bobby Orr was just something else. Even with knee problems.

Heres a cool highlight package. Of course the goalies werent as solid so pay no attention to them. Just watch Bobby. Especially the one vs us when hes being held on to at the start of his rush.

Zubov was more the guy that slowed things down with his head up (which isnt a slight against him as thats certainly a skill). Orr was just end to end making everyone else look silly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSDw3...e_gdata_player


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02-11-2013, 12:36 AM
  #121
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I will always say Modano is the greatest player we've had, but I could see an argument for Zubie. And just the fact that he was so underappreciated makes you love him even more.
Zubov was a more unique player than Modano. It's hard to compare between positions but for the better part of their careers Zubov was a better defenseman than Modano was a forward. Zubov also dictated the tempo of games, games Modano was playing in, games Modano never had the same impact on. Modano was great, and under-appreciated in his own right, but to me that says a lot about Zubov.

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02-11-2013, 01:00 AM
  #122
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Zubov was a more unique player than Modano. It's hard to compare between positions but for the better part of their careers Zubov was a better defenseman than Modano was a forward. Zubov also dictated the tempo of games, games Modano was playing in, games Modano never had the same impact on. Modano was great, and under-appreciated in his own right, but to me that says a lot about Zubov.
I agree about your points on Zubov, but I also think Modano was that guy that controled the tempo. Like you said just from a different position so hard to compare. I know living by Edmonton, especially during all those playoff natyles, Modano was "the guy"first and foremost but it was both he and Zubov that struck absolute fear in to everyone. They were the two that were head and shoulders above everyone else and nobody could match or keep up with. Id say it was the same for all opponents.

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02-13-2013, 10:35 PM
  #123
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How about bench his ass until he is off the team?

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02-13-2013, 10:38 PM
  #124
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I've decided, that every time the Neal trade gets brought up, I'll try to remember that it's just Pittsburgh getting even with us after the Zubov trade.

Still stings, just not quite as much.

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02-14-2013, 01:09 AM
  #125
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How about bench his ass until he is off the team?
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I've decided, that every time the Neal trade gets brought up, I'll try to remember that it's just Pittsburgh getting even with us after the Zubov trade.

Still stings, just not quite as much.
I agree with both of these.

Just when I was cursing the guy out on the tv and ranting about him to my wife, buddy of mine texted saying, "Every time I see Goligoski I thinks "*******". You the same?" Yup. I am.

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