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Wpg-Pit trade

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Old
02-10-2013, 01:41 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuburbanRhythm View Post
I asked one question earlier that went unanswered, I'll try again.

From the Winnipeg perspective, I keep hearing Kane scored 30 with no center. And Neal only broke 40 because of Malkin.

What is the incentive for the Jets in this deal? Neal wouldn't have a setup guy, same as Kane didn't.
The incemtive (jmo)is to get two very good players for one exceptional airhead. If Im Pittsburgh I dont do the deal though.

I feel this is a trade where the team that gets the best player loses the trade.

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02-10-2013, 03:41 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by OCPenguin View Post
You are assuming there would be automatic chemistry between Malkin and Kane. What's to say there is no chemistry and Kane maintains that 25-60 type season with one of the best players in the world and we give up a guy that has chemistry and has had success with him, a 40-goal season already. Really, its a pointless move for Pittsburgh as the Pens could lose ALOT IF chemistry isn't developed. That is the key to why Pittsburgh should never ever consider this. Kane isn't an automatic to get 30 with Malkin. I don't give a **** who is centering him in Winnipeg and he has 25. Again, why trade a guy that has chemistry for a guy that might not get it with Malkin and give up a top prospect as well as a 40-goal scorer? Kane is a tremendous player, one I'd love to have in Pittsburgh. However, Pittsburgh could lose alot here and its all based on chemistry. We heard Ponikarovsky would go wild in Pittsburgh with Crosby or Malkin. He was a bust. No chemistry whatsoever.

People have is uncanny ability to come out and say if XXX (pick your 20-goal scorer on an average team with an average center) were traded to Pittsburgh and were put with Crosby or Malkin, they would all the sudden become a 35-40 goal scorer. It doesn't work that way.
Agreed Pittsburgh would be dumb to make that trade and so would Winnipeg. Does Kane have the same chemistry with Malkin that Neal does? I don't know. Does Neal revert back to what he looked like in Dallas without Malkin? I don't know.

Also where does 25 goal scorer come from he scored 30 last year if he doesn't count as a 30 goal scorer then Neal isn't a 40 goal scorer.

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Old
02-10-2013, 03:54 PM
  #78
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I feel safe to say it would be a no from Pittsburgh.

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02-10-2013, 04:37 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by HooliganX2 View Post
You keep saying 25-60 when Kane has improved every season in his young career the trend is he will continue to improve. I think it is fair to say at worst Kane will be around a 50-60 point player now while scoring 25-35 goals.

I agree the trade makes no sense for the Pens but no need to downplay how good Kane is.
Not downplaying his talent at all. He is a very good player. However, I don't think the chemistry between Kane and Malkin would be as good as it is like Malkin and Neal - therefore his numbers wouldn't improve. Playing with one of the best players in the world doesn't automatically produce better numbers and its time people realize this. Neal is better fit for the Penguins than Kane in this instance.

25-60 is 25-goal, 60-point guy in my terms.

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02-10-2013, 04:38 PM
  #80
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Neal is untouchable at this point.

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02-10-2013, 05:00 PM
  #81
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Not sure why the Pens would consider this

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Old
02-10-2013, 05:45 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Don't you understand? We'd only be trading a 1st Team All-Star winger, the Jets would be trading a guy who hopes to one day become an all-star winger. We have to add.
Haha. Exactly. What is Kane going to score? 60 goals if the Pens pick him up? Neal is going nowhere.

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Old
02-10-2013, 09:13 PM
  #83
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this deal doesnt work for either team. and "potential" is the key word both ways. it doesnt have to be about whos better

why would winnipeg trade kane. one of the best young forwards in the game. with huge "potential" on a young growing team

and why would pittsburgh trade a proven star that has excellent chemistry on his current line. coming off a 40 goal season, simply for the "potential" of kane.

doesnt really make sense for either team at this point

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Old
02-10-2013, 10:02 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by scelaton View Post
For a frame of reference, 62 players in NHL history have put together a 30-goal season before the age of 21. On that list, players still currently active are: Ovechkin, Stamkos, Crosby, Kovalchuk, Malkin, Jagr, Toews, Kopitar, Rick Nash, Ryan Smyth, Jason Arnott, Marian Gaborik, Jeff Skinner, and Evander Kane. That's it.

See the above, those are Kane's comparitors, not James Neal.
Jets wouldn't do this trade because Wpg needs an elite centre, not a sniper. I also have no doubt that Crosby could make Kane into a 40++ goal scorer; despite Kane's many deficiencies, he is fast, strong and can score...like only 62 other players in NHL history.

This deal doesn't happen, but not because Kane=Neal.
Good luck to you guys.
Before the age 25, the following active players have put up 40 goal seasons: Selanne, Ovechkin, Crosby, Iginla, Jagr, Malkin, Hossa, Parise, Stamkos, Vanek, Carter, Heatley, Hejduk, Kovalchuk, Elias, Nash, E.Staal and Neal. That's it.


See, I can put up lists too.

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Old
02-10-2013, 10:15 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by kratzbuerste View Post
That list is just as disingenious as the pure stat reciting if not more so. So you honestly believe Kane will eventually turn out to be just like Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, Jagr?
As for the rest of those names, I┤d trade Neal for Kovalchuk and none of the others on that list, because I really don┤t care whether or not he can score 40g with any other center than Malkin. The Pens have Malkin. Neal absolutely no holds bared no improvement required does it for them. His is simply not the position we seek to change anything about.

Kane is a wonderful player and he has done just great so far, but it looks like he will become a 40++ goal scorer elsewhere.
The purpose of the list was simply to show that Kane is in pretty rarified company as a goal scorer. Will he turn out like Crosby and Malkin? No way. But the list does suggest he has more upside potential than Neal over the totality of his career. You may disagree, but calling it disingenuous is a bit unfair.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SuburbanRhythm View Post
I asked one question earlier that went unanswered, I'll try again.

From the Winnipeg perspective, I keep hearing Kane scored 30 with no center. And Neal only broke 40 because of Malkin.

What is the incentive for the Jets in this deal? Neal wouldn't have a setup guy, same as Kane didn't.
Agreed, I see no incentive for the Jets or Pitts in this--I just got drawn into the Neal vs Kane discussion with the rest of the Wpg "clowns". Bad manners aside, I must say I am impressed with the respect you all have for Neal as a player and will watch him more closely in the future.


Last edited by scelaton: 02-10-2013 at 11:44 PM.
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Old
02-10-2013, 11:09 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scelaton View Post
The purpose of the list was simply to show that Kane is in pretty rarified company as a goal scorer. Will he turn out like Crosby and Malkin? No way. But the list does suggest he has more upside potential than Neal over the totality of his career. You may disagree, but calling it disingenuous is a bit unfair.
I called it disingenious, because you concluded " See the above, those are Kane's comparitors (sic), not James Neal." No, most of them are really not. Why is that arbitrary goa÷ number at that arbitrary age what defines his potential? If he doesn┤t win a Conn Smythe by 23 can we drop Malkin and Toews from the list?

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02-10-2013, 11:36 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vujtek View Post
Before the age 25, the following active players have put up 40 goal seasons: Selanne, Ovechkin, Crosby, Iginla, Jagr, Malkin, Hossa, Parise, Stamkos, Vanek, Carter, Heatley, Hejduk, Kovalchuk, Elias, Nash, E.Staal and Neal. That's it.


See, I can put up lists too.
And how many players in history have done it?

The fail in this thread is just unbelievable.

Neal is a 40 goal superstar and playing with Malkin has nothing to do with it even though he has never even bested Kane's 21 year old season until he played with Malkin

Kane is a 25 goal guy even though he's already eclipsed that an age that few in history have and if Kane played with Malkin he would have no chemistry and his stats wouldn't go up even though they have every year he's been in the NHL playing with players not even 1/100 as good as Malkin

And WPG fans are the goofs...

This is the stupidest thread ever Neal is not being traded he has chemistry with Malkin and WPG has no way of knowing if they are getting Pittsburgh Neal or Dallas Neal

Kane may not have the same or any chemistry with Malkin and he may also very well turn out to be better than Neal as he is way further along in his development than Neal at the same age and has been better at every level than Neal WPG isn't going to take that risk

Zero incentive from either team and not even a remotely realistic proposal


Last edited by veganhunter: 02-11-2013 at 12:02 AM.
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Old
02-10-2013, 11:41 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kratzbuerste View Post
I called it disingenious, because you concluded " See the above, those are Kane's comparitors (sic), not James Neal." No, most of them are really not. Why is that arbitrary goa÷ number at that arbitrary age what defines his potential? If he doesn┤t win a Conn Smythe by 23 can we drop Malkin and Toews from the list?
Actually, the list included Jason Arnott and Ryan Smyth, as well as Crosby, Malkin and the other 2 elites you selectively referenced in your response. Most of them turned out to be great players, a few disappointed, but it's good company to be in, for sure.
As for the Conn Smythe reference, spare me, please. No one is suggesting Kane is MVP material, just that he has the potential to be a prolific goal scorer. Who is being disingenuous now?

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02-10-2013, 11:52 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scelaton View Post
Actually, the list included Jason Arnott and Ryan Smyth, as well as Crosby, Malkin and the other 2 elites you selectively referenced in your response. Most of them turned out to be great players, a few disappointed, but it's good company to be in, for sure.
As for the Conn Smythe reference, spare me, please. No one is suggesting Kane is MVP material, just that he has the potential to be a prolific goal scorer. Who is being disingenuous now?
Now suddenly it was not you who compared him to Malkin and Toews?

Whatever this is a supremely stupid thing to argue about. All I am claiming is that your select group came about by completely arbitrary parameters you settled on because they were favorable to Kane and that anyone could equally arbitrarily chose two parameters that would make him look way worse than he just as well as you chose for the opposite purpose.

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Old
02-10-2013, 11:59 PM
  #90
scelaton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kratzbuerste View Post
Now suddenly it was not you who compared him to Malkin and Toews?

Whatever this is a supremely stupid thing to argue about. All I am claiming is that your select group came about by completely arbitrary parameters you settled on because they were favorable to Kane and that anyone could equally arbitrarily chose two parameters that would make him look way worse than he just as well as you chose for the opposite purpose.
You are quite right, this is not worth arguing about. In fact, this whole thread is somewhat... regrettable.
Hope to meet you again under more favorable circumstances.

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Old
02-11-2013, 07:21 AM
  #91
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Close this thread already! Terrible proposal.

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Old
02-11-2013, 07:58 AM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vujtek View Post
Before the age 25, the following active players have put up 40 goal seasons: Selanne, Ovechkin, Crosby, Iginla, Jagr, Malkin, Hossa, Parise, Stamkos, Vanek, Carter, Heatley, Hejduk, Kovalchuk, Elias, Nash, E.Staal and Neal. That's it.


See, I can put up lists too.
Before the age of 25 is like half of your career, give us the list not just active I' ll bet its way more... Harder to put 30 at 21 yrs than 40 Before 25 yrs

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Old
02-11-2013, 08:23 AM
  #93
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James Neal won't be traded. His chemistry with Malkin is too much for this team to give up.

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Old
02-11-2013, 10:31 AM
  #94
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Horrible for the pens.

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