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Old
02-10-2013, 10:16 PM
  #51
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People complaining about goalie equipment have obviously never played goal at a decent level of hockey. With new age gear I had my collar bone broken from a slapshot while playing bantam hockey, the gear I was using back then was close to top of the line back then and that was only seven years ago. The reason we have extra padding coming over top of the chest protector is to specifically protect the goalie's collar bone. The big part at the end of the glove is to protect our wrists from being shattered by a slapshot, or broken by a slash as you players get a bit over gun ho to try and get the puck that we just covered and also to protect us when we get stepped on by skates so our tendons don't get cut. The reason goalie pads have gotten wider over time is so they can put more padding for us to fall onto when we go into the butterfly so we don't screw up our knees as badly, that is the reason that leg pads started getting bigger as soon as the butterfly was introduced.

The reason for gear getting larger is to protect the goalies from injury despite many players thinking it is to stop pucks, yes there was a time when goalies were inflating their gear size to stop pucks but the NHL put a stop to that right now all you're seeing is gear that is made to stop injuries and a goal tending technique starting to be perfected as this is the first generation of goalies that all grew up playing the butterfly style.

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02-10-2013, 10:21 PM
  #52
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equipment changed even during Dryden's time

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02-10-2013, 11:02 PM
  #53
Lonny Bohonos
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Wooden sticks? Lol get real.

Why give up the process that all for complete manufacturing control, allows for more durability and you dont need to chop down a bunch of trees?

As for tender equipment i agree that it can be pared down without affecting the protection.

Narrower leg pads, no cheater bar etc.

But as far as im concerned the conversation of improving the game doesnt begin until they talk about widening the ice surface.

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02-10-2013, 11:09 PM
  #54
LadyJet26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
Hockey isn't as good as it could be. While the NFL and UFC are gearing their product to make it as exciting as possible, the NHL is dumbed down on every level. Watching a goalie squat in the net and let the puck hit him isn't exciting. You don't know what you're missing.

Oh I'm sorry I have a DIFFERENT OPINION.

I watch the NFL and they only let a handful of teams in major cities and areas win. When was the last time a team like the Bengals or the Browns won? I don't care about the NFL and it relating to hockey. It doesn't. It's in a league of it's own. NHL revenue comes from fans. NFL revenue comes from the media.

I'm not talking dead puck era, but I get just as excited over an amazing save as I do a great goal. And hockey is better then the dead puck era. It is better then the 80s and the god awful games with no goaltending and no defense.

Don't tell me what I'm missing. I have my own opinions and don't want awful high scoring games like 11-7. That isn't good hockey. Good hockey is hard work, good hits, good goaltending, great plays. Hockey is flawed because of their inconsistent reffing; Not because of ****ing goaltending equipment. Goalies have every right to be protected to the fullest they can be by league standards. They get hit with a ****ing frozen piece of rubber all game long.

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02-10-2013, 11:15 PM
  #55
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I beg you all to watch this.

Scores aren't lower because of pad size or gear size or anything. Goaltending is about position, reads, instincts and athleticism now. And modern goalies are just better at it. Ergo, modern hockey players need to be more creative in ways of how to score on them.

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Old
02-10-2013, 11:21 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linters View Post
People complaining about goalie equipment have obviously never played goal at a decent level of hockey. With new age gear I had my collar bone broken from a slapshot while playing bantam hockey, the gear I was using back then was close to top of the line back then and that was only seven years ago. The reason we have extra padding coming over top of the chest protector is to specifically protect the goalie's collar bone. The big part at the end of the glove is to protect our wrists from being shattered by a slapshot, or broken by a slash as you players get a bit over gun ho to try and get the puck that we just covered and also to protect us when we get stepped on by skates so our tendons don't get cut. The reason goalie pads have gotten wider over time is so they can put more padding for us to fall onto when we go into the butterfly so we don't screw up our knees as badly, that is the reason that leg pads started getting bigger as soon as the butterfly was introduced.

The reason for gear getting larger is to protect the goalies from injury despite many players thinking it is to stop pucks, yes there was a time when goalies were inflating their gear size to stop pucks but the NHL put a stop to that right now all you're seeing is gear that is made to stop injuries and a goal tending technique starting to be perfected as this is the first generation of goalies that all grew up playing the butterfly style.
I played goal from the late 70's to the early 90's and the gear back then was abysmal, there wasn't a day that I didn't come home with some bruise or welt. The gear today might have a little extra, unneccessary "protection" but its not to the extent where people should be pissing and moaning about it...next they'll be wanting to ban 6'7" goalies because they are too big.

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02-10-2013, 11:42 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thepuckmonster View Post


I beg you all to watch this.

Scores aren't lower because of pad size or gear size or anything. Goaltending is about position, reads, instincts and athleticism now. And modern goalies are just better at it. Ergo, modern hockey players need to be more creative in ways of how to score on them.
that sumo goalie isn't nearly big enough. Strap the pads on one of those "one ton man" fatties on TLC and see how much net he covers. Only problems I could see happening would be the goalie having a heartattack, and pucks getting lost in his folds.

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Old
02-11-2013, 12:15 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizeman View Post
Do you know how full of crap your photos are. You purposefully 'picked' the photos to enhance dryden and find one where todays goalie looks small.

You type Ken Dryden into the search bar and thats the ONLY photo you can come up with ? Brodeurs photo is the ONLY one for todays goalies obvious cheating?

Let me help you out. See how much net the 6 ft 4 dryden takes up!!!!!!
Uhhhh, that was the point of my post. I was giving an extreme example to show how even larger modern equipment can be made to look smaller depending on the perspective.

You take any goalie whose feet are on the goal line and take a straight on shot with a zoom lens from 200 feet away and they're going to look small.

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02-11-2013, 12:35 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
A goalie with a 28-32 inch waist can wrap themselves in 3 inches of protection without ending up being 50+ inches around. There is no reason to "protect" 6 inches above the collar bone either.

If you don't want bruises then don't play sports. There are guys willing to get in front of those same shots with far less padding. Suck it up princess.
Lol, good job making up those numbers. 6 inches above collarbone? Can't argue with numbers that are wrong.

Yeah, there are skaters standing in front blocking 2 or 3 shots a game, notice how when they block a shot, they go down in pain and can't get back up for a few minutes? Often times hunching over when they finally make it back at the bench.

Goalies don't have that luxury, we have to bounce back up immediately after a shot and if there is a rebound we have to be ready right away. We also face about 30 shots a game plus however many there is during practice.

Have you ever played goal? If no, I don't see how you can even be remotely qualified to make an statement like that. If you haven't ever been in the position yourself how would you know what 30 x 90-100 mph pucks each night feels like?

Suck it up? What an ignorant statement.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizeman View Post
Its simple.

I do agree that the sticks should be wooden. When the game was developed it was LONG past the time when Iron and steel were available . They could have made iron sticks a long time ago but they chose to make them out of wood instead.

I think its how the game is played. They play on ice , with single blade skates, and with sticks. They should be wood.

I would also make the goalie equipment specifically to protect the goalie, not the goal. I think they have done a wonderful job with the masks and throat protectors.

They are cheating with the most of the other equipment.
Thank you! I feel like its a 2 way street, if skaters are willing to go back on the technology on then they can be justified to ask goalies to do the same. You can't just ask for one side to adjust and not the other.

IMO, if you can't score? Get better! The NHL has many talented guys that can still light it up no problem. Its the goons/grinders with no hands that are having trouble scoring. The talent level keeps going down each time the NHL expands

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linters View Post
The reason for gear getting larger is to protect the goalies from injury despite many players thinking it is to stop pucks, yes there was a time when goalies were inflating their gear size to stop pucks but the NHL put a stop to that right now all you're seeing is gear that is made to stop injuries and a goal tending technique starting to be perfected as this is the first generation of goalies that all grew up playing the butterfly style.
Great point about the butterfly style. Even a few seasons ago when goalies like Cujo was still around there were a bunch of goalies who did not grow up working on techniques and such. Nowadays with the exception of Marty every goalie in the league has been brought up working on their butterfly and angle techniques.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonny Bohonos View Post
Narrower leg pads, no cheater bar etc.

But as far as im concerned the conversation of improving the game doesnt begin until they talk about widening the ice surface.
Whats a cheater bar? never heard of it. if you mean the bar above the catching glove thats been long gone since the lockout.

Agree 100% about widening the ice, more ice = more room to roam around with speed and more time to pull off a well placed shot. A well placed shot can still easily beat a goalie these days, its just a matter of being able to pull it off.


Last edited by Hank4Hart: 02-11-2013 at 12:42 AM.
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02-11-2013, 12:40 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thepuckmonster View Post
I beg you all to watch this.

Scores aren't lower because of pad size or gear size or anything. Goaltending is about position, reads, instincts and athleticism now. And modern goalies are just better at it. Ergo, modern hockey players need to be more creative in ways of how to score on them.
I'm not sure how anyone can say bigger goalies don't stop more goals. More space occupied turns goals into save. I do agree it's not the big problem it's made out.

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02-11-2013, 12:48 AM
  #61
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But pads have shrunk in the last decade haven't they? It's technique and defensive systems that causes the better goaltending stats. Size covers a few shots, but most are the result of improved technique.

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02-11-2013, 12:50 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank4Hart View Post

Whats a cheater bar? never heard of it. if you mean the bar above the catching glove thats been long gone since the lockout.

Agree 100% about widening the ice, more ice = more room to roam around with speed and more time to pull off a well placed shot. A well placed shot can still easily beat a goalie these days, its just a matter of being able to pull it off.


Its may not be called a cheater bar now but the idea is the same. The extra "height" at the wrist is not adding protection more than it is increasing the surface area.

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02-11-2013, 12:56 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
A goalie with a 28-32 inch waist can wrap themselves in 3 inches of protection without ending up being 50+ inches around.
Also, for the sake of the argument, lets do some math

Assume our body is a circular cylinder, our body obviously is not perfectly circular but close enough

The formula to find the circumference is 2*pi*radius. Therefore, if the circumference is 32 inches, that means the radius is approximately 5.1 inches.

Now lets say we add 3 inches of protection all the way around the cylinder/goalie, bringing it to 8.1 inches radius

2 x 3.14 x 8.1 = 50.8 inches

So no, mathematically, you cannot add 3 inches of padding around a goalie without him bloating up to 50 inches.


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02-11-2013, 02:57 AM
  #64
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Has scoring gone up since they've been reducing pad sizes the last few years?

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02-11-2013, 04:15 AM
  #65
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If we could just get goalies to try to stop slap shots with their skate blades again, we'd be in business.

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02-11-2013, 04:46 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizeman View Post
Do you know how full of crap your photos are. You purposefully 'picked' the photos to enhance dryden and find one where todays goalie looks small.

You type Ken Dryden into the search bar and thats the ONLY photo you can come up with ? Brodeurs photo is the ONLY one for todays goalies obvious cheating?

Let me help you out. See how much net the 6 ft 4 dryden takes up!!!!!!
How did you manage to read that post without realising that that was his whole point?

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02-11-2013, 02:41 PM
  #67
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Also, what are considered "historic average" save percentages? They didn't track save percentage officially prior to 1983, so it's difficult to base any historical comparison from that.

If you look strictly at goals per game, over the last 80 years of the NHL it has been fairly consistent save for 2 periods of higher scoring, first during WWII and then from the late '70s to the early '90s. In the other 55 years it has sat right around 5.5 G/G (+/- .75 goals either way). Right now we're seeing 5.49 G/G, so right around that average.

I get the impression that when people are talking about normal goal scoring rates that they're actually talking about the '80s which were abnormal.

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02-11-2013, 03:38 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thepuckmonster View Post


I beg you all to watch this.

Scores aren't lower because of pad size or gear size or anything. Goaltending is about position, reads, instincts and athleticism now. And modern goalies are just better at it. Ergo, modern hockey players need to be more creative in ways of how to score on them.
I'm so glad that even though the world's fattest man couldn't get up to participate, they still included several clips of his man boobs.

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02-11-2013, 06:10 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizeman View Post
Do you know how full of crap your photos are. You purposefully 'picked' the photos to enhance dryden and find one where todays goalie looks small.

You type Ken Dryden into the search bar and thats the ONLY photo you can come up with ? Brodeurs photo is the ONLY one for todays goalies obvious cheating?

Let me help you out. See how much net the 6 ft 4 dryden takes up!!!!!!
That was the point is that he picked those photos to show contrasting perspectives and angles and how camera perception plays big into this fairly crude "in-game picture argument".

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02-11-2013, 07:14 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Kid Canuck View Post
It's true, there are far less injuries in rugby and they have no pads or helmets. So get rid of visors. I'm happy to see stick on the hands being called more, as far as I am concerned if a player is holding the stick of another player it should not matter, the stick should not be there to begin with, the puck is on the ice.
Actually rugby league is currently having concussion issues of its own. dose not make the point helmet invalid though.

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02-11-2013, 07:50 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by TallPoppySyndrome View Post
Actually rugby league is currently having concussion issues of its own. dose not make the point helmet invalid though.
That's a tough one. It's hard to argue that head protection isn't needed in football, but the modern helmet changed how tackling and contact is approached, bringing its own problems.

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02-11-2013, 11:33 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanucksnWpg View Post
I get just as excited over an amazing save as I do a great goal.
Me too. Sitting on your knees covering up the whole net is not amazing.

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Originally Posted by Hank4Hart View Post
Lol, good job making up those numbers. 6 inches above collarbone? Can't argue with numbers that are wrong.
The "protection" above the collar bone extends way above the body and is solid and at an angle that helps take away the top of the net. I know the game, I know goalies, I know what is protection and what isn't.

Chest protectors should wrap around the body, not extend away from it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank4Hart View Post
Also, for the sake of the argument, lets do some math

Assume our body is a circular cylinder, our body obviously is not perfectly circular but close enough

The formula to find the circumference is 2*pi*radius. Therefore, if the circumference is 32 inches, that means the radius is approximately 5.1 inches.

Now lets say we add 3 inches of protection all the way around the cylinder/goalie, bringing it to 8.1 inches radius

2 x 3.14 x 8.1 = 50.8 inches

So no, mathematically, you cannot add 3 inches of padding around a goalie without him bloating up to 50 inches.

Since when did goalies start protecting their back? Smartass.

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02-12-2013, 12:40 AM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
Me too. Sitting on your knees covering up the whole net is not amazing.
That is such an ignorant statement. Quite frankly, just from that I know you have never played a lick of goaltending in your life. All the hockey players that I know who have tried goaltending realizes the degree of difficulty involved in a simple butterfly save.

There's so much more to a butterfly save than just "sitting on your knees".

Once you go into your butterfly, you have to have the ability to go side to side in your recoveries and go post to post in a blink of an eye. You have to have great footwork and body control to do something like that. Further, the amount of work that is put in by a goalie to develop the flexibility needed for a wide butterfly is nuts. Just because Carey Price and Cory Schneider make it look so effortless and easy doesn't mean it is so. If it was so easy then you should be about to just sub in any AHL goalies and have him perform well in the NHL.

Quote:
The "protection" above the collar bone extends way above the body and is solid and at an angle that helps take away the top of the net.
That is because the shoulder padding is angled in a way so that the puck can deflects off the goalie's shoulder rather than transferring brunt of the energy force on the goalie himself. Its the exact same concept that goes into building a goalie mask.

6 inches above the collarbone would mean that the padding sits so high that its level with the goalie's nose when the goalie is in a relaxed position. It might appear that way in some photos of goalies who are in their stances and butterflies, but that's because goalies are taught to bring up their shoulders during those instances to cover up more space. So their shoulders are sitting higher by quite few inches to begin with.

I challenge you to find me a picture of a goalie standing up that has his shoulder/collar padding all the way up to his nose when he is standing upright.


Quote:
I know the game, I know goalies, I know what is protection and what isn't.
Clearly you don't, but maybe if you say "I know" enough times it will become true.

Quote:

Since when did goalies start protecting their back? Smartass.
As a matter of fact, both the chest protector and the pants do have protection on the back. The chest protector has spinal padding and the goalie pants have protection all the way around your body including padding for kidneys. You should go to a hockey shop and take a look at goalie pants on the market.

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02-12-2013, 12:47 AM
  #74
Lonny Bohonos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TallPoppySyndrome View Post
Actually rugby league is currently having concussion issues of its own. dose not make the point helmet invalid though.
Yeah I loled when I read that.

Rugby is chock full of injuries.

The biggest difference between rugby(union anyways) and football is not the equipment but the pace or tempo the game is played at.

Football is much more of a stop sprint stop sprint tempo where as rugby is largely continual. The stoppages in rugby lineout and scrums dont really involve high impact collisions.

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02-12-2013, 03:13 AM
  #75
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So so far we've got "historical scoring levels," we've got a guy saying that a NHL spec catcher is way smaller than NHL spec, and other statements of arbitrary numbers without any sort of backing to them.
Seems about right for a goalie pad thread.

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