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Old
02-10-2013, 09:23 PM
  #126
achdumeingute
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Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
Schenn and Couturier are our farm. The common theme is you refuse to acknowledge that our best offensive players are also our youngest and the ones you would have to give up in a trade of that magnitutude. Our farm is in the NHL already. How many of our picks next year have been traded? How about the year after that? Did we have a 1st and a 2nd last year? Who cares that we trade our future when we already have an extended future due to the youth of our current roster?
they are not the farm. If they were, they wouldnt be up with the big club their names would be scrolling at the top of this page.

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02-10-2013, 09:26 PM
  #127
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Yeah...when your farm is all NHL players, that's not your farm. That's your NHL team.

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02-10-2013, 09:26 PM
  #128
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So every team has young guys that can step in and play and be effective in NHL as a callup after the guys on their roster? Wow why would they have the old guy they are replacing him with in the first place then? He's probably more expensive and less effective apparently. What is the Problem with Foster Lilja and Gervais being your #6,7 and 8? That's a lot of experience on the back end. They might not be the best but whose #6 or #7 defensemen is?
i didnt mean to put it quite like that with the every team, but I was trying to make a point. its too bad Gus got hurt. I would of prefered him out there over any of those 2 guys. Of course Mez was still hurt and then Gus got hurt so that added to the problems on the bottom part of the defense.
Lilja,Gervais and Foster are ok. So long as they dont play every night.

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02-10-2013, 09:29 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
they are not the farm. If they were, they wouldnt be up with the big club.
The Flyers had more Rookie games then any other team in the league last year. Almost 25 pct of our goals came from rookies. And the last time the Flyers had more games from rookies was the 1968-69 season. Done with this arguement, enjoy wallowing in your GM's "failures". I'll enjoy my team as is for the next 10 years or so.

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02-10-2013, 09:30 PM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
Schenn and Couturier are our farm. The common theme is you refuse to acknowledge that our best offensive players are also our youngest and the ones you would have to give up in a trade of that magnitutude. Our farm is in the NHL already. How many of our picks next year have been traded? How about the year after that? Did we have a 1st and a 2nd last year? Who cares that we trade our future when we already have an extended future due to the youth of our current roster?
I think you're confusing what we expect from the organization. You say the Flyers do choose a quality NHL team over organizational depth.


We're saying they should have both.

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02-10-2013, 09:31 PM
  #131
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I think you're confusing what we expect from the organization. You say the Flyers do choose a quality NHL team over organizational depth.


We're saying they should have both.
and you can have both.
I really dont understand why some people dont get it.

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02-10-2013, 09:37 PM
  #132
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I think you're confusing what we expect from the organization. You say the Flyers do choose a quality NHL team over organizational depth.


We're saying they should have both.
We'll just send anyone under 23 down to the minors. Then we can have a farm system again, like the Preds, Ducks or Coyotes do.

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02-10-2013, 09:39 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
We'll just send anyone under 23 down to the minors. Then we can have a farm system again, like the Preds, Ducks or Coyotes do.
not sure if serious.
there is this thing called waivers.

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02-10-2013, 09:43 PM
  #134
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Prospect pool is overrated.

What is a better appraisal of talent/future? Under 25 team.

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02-10-2013, 09:44 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
We'll just send anyone under 23 down to the minors. Then we can have a farm system again, like the Preds, Ducks or Coyotes do.
Yeah, but then they need to actually be good.

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02-10-2013, 09:44 PM
  #136
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not sure if serious.
there is this thing called waivers.
It was pretty obvious sarcasm, I'm suggesting that those franchises keep their farm system's so great because they leave their players in the minors for too long. Frankly I enjoy seeing our young players play if they can do so effectively at this level. It's in support of my arguement that the reason we have no farm is that our young players are already playing the NHL. It's like you all would of rather we traded Richards and Carter for guys farther away from the NHL rather then what we got.

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02-10-2013, 09:48 PM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Prospect pool is overrated.

What is a better appraisal of talent/future? Under 25 team.
Thank you.

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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
Yeah, but then they need to actually be good.
Sean Couturier
Brayden Schenn
Luke Schenn
Tye McGinn
Jakub Voracek
Zac Rinaldo
Eric Wellwood

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02-10-2013, 09:50 PM
  #138
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Kimmo Timonen
Danny Briere
Scott Hartnell in a few seasons

Who replaces them when they retire/decline? People already on the team? Or will Homer have to trade more roster players to fill spots without using fringe 4th liners?

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02-10-2013, 09:55 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Kimmo Timonen
Danny Briere
Scott Hartnell in a few seasons

Who replaces them when they retire/decline? People already on the team? Or will Homer have to trade more roster players to fill spots without using fringe 4th liners?
Free agency doesn't exist? Its funny you mention those 3 as none of them were grown in the organization. 2 were acquired in the same deal in the same offseason for a 1st round pick that wasn't even our own that we acquired earlier the same year for an aging Foppa. And Briere was signed in Free Agency.

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02-10-2013, 10:00 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
Thank you.



Sean Couturier
Brayden Schenn
Luke Schenn
Tye McGinn
Jakub Voracek
Zac Rinaldo
Eric Wellwood
Neither Schenn, nor Couturier, and especially not Voracek are not a product of our farm system.

We're talking about the guys like McGinn or Wellwood who may or may not be good players. I guess Rinaldo too, but he is awful regardless and shouldn't be in the discussion because he shouldn't be an NHL player. He's just proof of how bad it is.

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Free agency doesn't exist? Its funny you mention those 3 as none of them were grown in the organization. 2 were acquired in the same deal in the same offseason for a 1st round pick that wasn't even our own that we acquired earlier the same year for an aging Foppa. And Briere was signed in Free Agency.
Free agency is rarely proper means of replacing NHL talent at the price they're worth since they're past their primes in almost every case.

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02-10-2013, 10:05 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
Free agency doesn't exist? Its funny you mention those 3 as none of them were grown in the organization. 2 were acquired in the same deal in the same offseason for a 1st round pick that wasn't even our own that we acquired earlier the same year for an aging Foppa. And Briere was signed in Free Agency.
Free agency exists, but it's possible to strike out. Like last offseason, for instance. It's far from a sure thing. It's nice to have a backup plan available if FA doesn't pan out...like a strong farm system that produces more than 4th line talent and a good center every few years. Then you can get players as they hit their prime for a lower price, instead of paying a premium after they've been proven for their decline years.

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Old
02-10-2013, 10:07 PM
  #142
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This team has a pattern of major roster overhauls every two years, and at this rate given the time and our general play, don't be surprised by the major move this year.

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02-10-2013, 10:07 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
Neither Schenn, nor Couturier, and especially not Voracek are not a product of our farm system.

We're talking about the guys like McGinn or Wellwood who may or may not be good players. I guess Rinaldo too, but he is awful regardless and shouldn't be in the discussion because he shouldn't be an NHL player. He's just proof of how bad it is.



Free agency is rarely proper means of replacing NHL talent at the price they're worth since they're past their primes in almost every case.
I wasn't I was talking about guys who would be considered prospects on other teams. Couturier was drafted by us and immediately made the NHL what is so wrong with that aside from he's not considered to be a part of the farm ever. If Laughton made the NHL this year you would consider our Farm even worse even though we have teenagers on our NHL roster. The point I'm trying to make is it is acceptable to not have a farm when your team's best players are so young.

Yet we have done it. And continue to try to do it, as evidenced by the attempt at Parise, Suter and Weber last offseason

I expect this offseason, as well as the next, could be exciting again.

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02-10-2013, 10:15 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
Neither Schenn, nor Couturier, and especially not Voracek are not a product of our farm system.

We're talking about the guys like McGinn or Wellwood who may or may not be good players. I guess Rinaldo too, but he is awful regardless and shouldn't be in the discussion because he shouldn't be an NHL player. He's just proof of how bad it is.
But that speaks more to the organization being bad at developing than anything. They are good at picking guys in the first round...they just arent able to find those "diamond in the rough" guys in the late rounds that they can develop in the minors, and then call them up when they are 22-24 and have them be contributing NHLers. That is how you get the organizational depth you are talking about...and no, they havent been good at that.

I agree with that assessment, I just disagree with the notion that all Homer does is trade away first round picks for rental players...and there for has hurt our chances at a cup now and in the future. The organization has been much better at sticking with their youth since the salary cap was put into place. If it was like the Clarke days, Richards, Carter, Giroux, JVR, etc would have all been offered up early in their careers...but the organization decided to hang on to those guys. It takes more than that though...sometimes you need to bring in a Briere or a Pronger to support you home grown core. Hell, the Pronger deal almost did bring us a cup, they just unfortunately had their first and second string goalies get hurt.

Homer certainly has made mistakes, but I think over all he has done a good job making the big moves while keeping this teams future bright.

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02-10-2013, 10:16 PM
  #145
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Unless the Flyers trade some salary away this summer I really cant see them making a major signing. With the cap going down you are going to have to bank some cap space to resign Giroux,Schenn, Couturier and Read in the Summer of 2014. Provided either of those guys arent traded of course.

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02-10-2013, 10:17 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
I wasn't I was talking about guys who would be considered prospects on other teams. Couturier was drafted by us and immediately made the NHL what is so wrong with that aside from he's not considered to be a part of the farm ever. If Laughton made the NHL this year you would consider our Farm even worse even though we have teenagers on our NHL roster. The point I'm trying to make is it is acceptable to not have a farm when your team's best players are so young.

Yet we have done it. And continue to try to do it, as evidenced by the attempt at Parise, Suter and Weber last offseason

I expect this offseason, as well as the next, could be exciting again.
Ok. Go through the list of upcoming defensemen UFA's and tell us which of those guys you're giving $6M to.

And there's nothing wrong with Couturier being a good NHL player, our point is the FARM SYSTEM. We are talking about how awful the FARM team has been. We are talking about drafting a guy, and developing him. Couturier very likely would have been the 1st overall pick if he didn't get mono. You're the one saying that's the easy part.

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02-10-2013, 10:24 PM
  #147
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I think some people wouldnt care if we gave up a 1st and a prospect for Kevin Westgarth. Thats how little I think some think about draft picks and prospects around here.

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02-10-2013, 10:25 PM
  #148
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Ok. Go through the list of upcoming defensemen UFA's and tell us which of those guys you're giving $6M to.

And there's nothing wrong with Couturier being a good NHL player, our point is the FARM SYSTEM. We are talking about how awful the FARM team has been. We are talking about drafting a guy, and developing him. Couturier very likely would have been the 1st overall pick if he didn't get mono. You're the one saying that's the easy part.
And I'm saying who cares how good the farm is? You forfeited farm for a great NHL team who is young to boot. I don't see what is wrong with it. Again I don't have a care in the world how well the AHL team does, a Calder Cup means nothing to me. A Memorial Cup means even less. And even then isn't one of our terribad prospects drafted outside the 1st round leading the OHL in scoring?

Enstrom, Edler, Whitney, White, Streit, Regher, Smid, Vlasic not that I'd give 6m for all of them but idk where that price point came from. There are some decent puck movers that are UFA soon

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02-10-2013, 10:33 PM
  #149
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And I'm saying who cares how good the farm is? You forfeited farm for a great NHL team who is young to boot. I don't see what is wrong with it. Again I don't have a care in the world how well the AHL team does, a Calder Cup means nothing to me. A Memorial Cup means even less. And even then isn't one of our terribad prospects drafted outside the 1st round leading the OHL in scoring?

Enstrom, Edler, Whitney, White, Streit, Regher, Smid, Vlasic not that I'd give 6m for all of them but idk where that price point came from. There are some decent puck movers that are UFA soon
You might need to brush up on the UFA market before dissertations on how farm systems are irrelevant. Not that the Kings, Bruins, Red Wings, Penguins, or Blackhawks agree with that.

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02-10-2013, 10:36 PM
  #150
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And I'm saying who cares how good the farm is? You forfeited farm for a great NHL team who is young to boot. I don't see what is wrong with it. Again I don't have a care in the world how well the AHL team does, a Calder Cup means nothing to me. A Memorial Cup means even less. And even then isn't one of our terribad prospects drafted outside the 1st round leading the OHL in scoring?

Enstrom, Edler, Whitney, White, Streit, Regher, Smid, Vlasic
It's not about having a successful AHL team. It's about having players that can be developed into good NHL players. Look at Nashville. Players like Erat, Hornqvist, Weber, Josi, etc. that are drafted outside the 1st round and are developed in the minors and end up playing key roles on an NHL team. Something the Flyers rarely do.

Oh and Edler signed and extension with Vancouver. Enstrom is signed through like 2018 or something. And I'm pretty sure Vlasic isn't available either.

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