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Subban's play since coming back

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02-09-2013, 02:05 PM
  #101
icerocket
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Subban has been great. He is behind Markov right now but don't be surprised that by the end of the season Subban will be the clear #1 on this team.

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02-09-2013, 02:33 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by MaKi View Post
The decision making comes with time, and being able to watch/talk with Markov will just accelerate that. He has the strength, puck handling skills and skating ability to defuse tough situations in our defensive zone like no one else on our team. I've noticed what you're pointing out in seasons passed, but in the games I've watched, haven't seen all of them and that might be why, I haven't noticed him making poor decisions really. In fact I've noticed him making the simple pass after he's made the first fore checker miss the majority of the time.

Really, most levels of his game are already at a top tier, if not elite, level. The things he needs to improve on most are things that take time and experience. The good news is he's still very young, especially considering how long it usually takes dmen to even break into the league. His decision making, and ability to read the play will improve as he gets older, and if he is able to develop that part of his game to near Markov's level, it would be unreal.
Markov's ability to read the play is uncanny. Even with his decreased mobility, due to his injuries I assume, he's always right on players receiving passes in the neutral zone, breaking plays up before they even have time to materialize.

Anyway, the Habs are fun to watch right now, and I hope they can keep this up all season.
I agree with most all of what you're saying. What I'm saying is that he's not there yet, but people act like he is. The top young blueliners in the league are younger than PK and already much better in the decision making and poise aspects of the game, so I'm just saying that comparing him to hall of fame dmen is premature in the least...

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02-09-2013, 02:48 PM
  #103
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For all who said Bergevin was a fu*** moron in giving only a 2 year transitional contract to Subban...

"Tyler Myers is expected to be a healthy scratch Saturday for the Buffalo Sabres when they face the New York Islanders"

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02-09-2013, 02:52 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Le depisteur View Post
For all who said Bergevin was a fu*** moron in giving only a 2 year transitional contract to Subban...

"Tyler Myers is expected to be a healthy scratch Saturday for the Buffalo Sabres when they face the New York Islanders"
Your logic is without fail.

1) Subban is exactly like Myers in every way, and would react the same way in every way to everything.
2) Myers is completely ruined as a player and has no chance to ever be good again.
3) The contract he got is clearly the reason why Myers is a healthy scratch.
4) There is no chance that a 2 year deal can have any adverse effect whatsoever while we now know for a fact that a long term deal ruins Myers who is exactly like Subban so it would have ruined Subban too

Please give me my crow now

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02-09-2013, 03:00 PM
  #105
Le depisteur
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
Your logic is without fail.

1) Subban is exactly like Myers in every way, and would react the same way in every way to everything.
2) Myers is completely ruined as a player and has no chance to ever be good again.
3) The contract he got is clearly the reason why Myers is a healthy scratch.
4) There is no chance that a 2 year deal can have any adverse effect whatsoever while we now know for a fact that a long term deal ruins Myers who is exactly like Subban so it would have ruined Subban too

Please give me my crow now
Bergevin made the best decision with Subban, I'm sorry but some of you have to accept this one day...

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02-09-2013, 03:00 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
Your logic is without fail.

1) Subban is exactly like Myers in every way, and would react the same way in every way to everything.
2) Myers is completely ruined as a player and has no chance to ever be good again.
3) The contract he got is clearly the reason why Myers is a healthy scratch.
4) There is no chance that a 2 year deal can have any adverse effect whatsoever while we now know for a fact that a long term deal ruins Myers who is exactly like Subban so it would have ruined Subban too

Please give me my crow now
derp, derp derp derp derp, herp derp. derp, derp derp derp. herp, derp, derp.

derp.

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Old
02-09-2013, 03:12 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Le depisteur View Post
Bergevin made the best decision with Subban, I'm sorry but some of you have to accept this one day...
Is that you admitting that your post about Myers was dumb?

As for the transitional deal being the right move, nearly every GM in the league who has talent like Subban on their team have made every effort to sign that talent to a long term deal out of their ELC (Staal, Carlson, Vlasic, Myers, etc). It's clear other GMs believe it to be a good move.

You will see what his next deal will cost. And then you can come tell me if it was worth eliminating that 1% chance of him not being the player we thought he was. Then you can come here and say we were wrong.

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02-09-2013, 03:27 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Le depisteur View Post
For all who said Bergevin was a fu*** moron in giving only a 2 year transitional contract to Subban...

"Tyler Myers is expected to be a healthy scratch Saturday for the Buffalo Sabres when they face the New York Islanders"
This has got to be the dumbest post I've read in a while... and that's saying something.

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Old
02-09-2013, 03:28 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le depisteur View Post
For all who said Bergevin was a fu*** moron in giving only a 2 year transitional contract to Subban...

"Tyler Myers is expected to be a healthy scratch Saturday for the Buffalo Sabres when they face the New York Islanders"
Myers is a very good young player, but it seems some of these kids that get their money too soon, lose their motivation...

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Old
02-09-2013, 03:33 PM
  #110
Le depisteur
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
This has got to be the dumbest post I've read in a while... and that's saying something.
And that's saying a lot about you...

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02-09-2013, 03:45 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Le depisteur View Post
And that's saying a lot about you...
I'm going to try explaining it to you again without the sarcasm.

Signing long term deal is probably not the only thing that lead to Myers being healthy scratched.

Subban and Myers are two different people who might react differently to the same situations.

It's not because Myers is a healthy scratch now that he will suck forever. It's not a huge deal. It happens. He will likely be back and will play well at some point, even if it's just next year.

As such, the fact Myers was healthy scratched is not even close to being a proof that signing Subban to a transition deal was the right move. In fact, there is almost no link to be made here. It's as if I had said : Karlsson has 7 pts in 9 games, clearly Bergevin was wrong in signing Subban short term. Same illogical reasoning.

As always, it's important to use logic when making an argument.

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02-09-2013, 03:53 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Le depisteur View Post
And that's saying a lot about you...
Here's some bed-time reading for you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_Hoc_Ergo_Propter_Hoc

Plus, you've got some fancy new Latin words to use next time you want to brush off someone's argument without using the banal "correlation not causation." It adds to the snootyness, which is never a bad thing.

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Old
02-09-2013, 03:54 PM
  #113
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Should have more ice time than Markov. Markov - Emelin pairing played poorly vs Buffalo.
Also put Gorges back with Subban and pair Emelin with Bouillon.

Gorges - Subban
Markov - Diaz
Emelin - Boullion
Weber

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Old
02-09-2013, 04:04 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by jmdubois585 View Post
Should have more ice time than Markov. Markov - Emelin pairing played poorly vs Buffalo.
Also put Gorges back with Subban and pair Emelin with Bouillon.

Gorges - Subban
Markov - Diaz
Emelin - Boullion
Weber
I personally love the suggestion of playing Gorges with Markov. Gorges can easily play on the right side. Handling the puck is not his forte anyway and he has played the right side as well as the left before.

Then you can play Emelin and Subban together. Emelin goes back to his proper side. I simply do not understand the obsession of playing Emelin on his wrong side.

Bouillon-Diaz should be the third pairing.

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Old
02-09-2013, 06:52 PM
  #115
Le depisteur
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
I'm going to try explaining it to you again without the sarcasm.

Signing long term deal is probably not the only thing that lead to Myers being healthy scratched.

Subban and Myers are two different people who might react differently to the same situations.

It's not because Myers is a healthy scratch now that he will suck forever. It's not a huge deal. It happens. He will likely be back and will play well at some point, even if it's just next year.

As such, the fact Myers was healthy scratched is not even close to being a proof that signing Subban to a transition deal was the right move. In fact, there is almost no link to be made here. It's as if I had said : Karlsson has 7 pts in 9 games, clearly Bergevin was wrong in signing Subban short term. Same illogical reasoning.

As always, it's important to use logic when making an argument.
You're right, Myers and Subban are two distincts cases. Myers won the Calder while Subban not even close. The point is it is quite risky to give a big money multi year contract after the ELC to a young player, because all can change really quickly in the NHL. Myers is one example among many others. Of course, when you have player like Crosby, Malkin or Karlsson, it is a different story. But there is no risk to give a low money two-year contract to Subban. If he really steps up after that, there will be no problem to give him the money we will deserve.

In brief, the people who called Bergevin a moron in this case was the dumbest here... If you not agree, send your CV to Geoff Molson.

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Old
02-09-2013, 06:58 PM
  #116
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by Le depisteur View Post
You're right, Myers and Subban are two distincts cases. Myers won the Calder while Subban not even close. The point is it is quite risky to give a big money multi year contract after the ELC to a young player, because all can change really quickly in the NHL. Myers is one example among many others. Of course, when you have player like Crosby, Malkin or Karlsson, it is a different story. But there is no risk to give a low money two-year contract to Subban. If he really steps up after that, there will be no problem to give him the money we will deserve.

In brief, the people who called Bergevin a moron in this case was the dumbest here... If you not agree, send your CV to Geoff Molson.
Dude, you are embarrassing yourself. Just stop.

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Old
02-09-2013, 07:48 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Le depisteur View Post
You're right, Myers and Subban are two distincts cases. Myers won the Calder while Subban not even close. The point is it is quite risky to give a big money multi year contract after the ELC to a young player, because all can change really quickly in the NHL. Myers is one example among many others. Of course, when you have player like Crosby, Malkin or Karlsson, it is a different story. But there is no risk to give a low money two-year contract to Subban. If he really steps up after that, there will be no problem to give him the money we will deserve.

In brief, the people who called Bergevin a moron in this case was the dumbest here... If you not agree, send your CV to Geoff Molson.
There's always a risk to signing young players to an ELC,

However, where you're confused, is that you ignore the fact that there's a risk to not offering an ELC as well.

Bergevin could have picked up 4 of Subban's UFA years for ~4.5 million dollars, as well as created long-term stability on defense. Now, due to the fact that the cap is going to go up by 5%/year average in the long-term, and the fact Subban will be more proven and better, the risk is that Bergevin will have to pay 6.5-7.5 million.

Quite frankly, most of us think the odds of Subban succeeding are high, and as such we're more concerned with the latter risk since it is more probable.


Last edited by DAChampion: 02-09-2013 at 11:43 PM.
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Old
02-10-2013, 04:01 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
Myers is a very good young player, but it seems some of these kids that get their money too soon, lose their motivation...
Very true and GMs always have to have an eye out for that (not always easy). I can still admit that I would have signed Subban to a 7 yr deal. Now we have to do all of this all over again in 1 1/2 years! oye ve!

Subban imo wants to win...2mil or 5 mil...he wants to win.
I could be wrong but he has that ''je ne sais quoi'' that a few have had (Patrick Roy had it...Chelios had it... PRIDE...pride in winning...pride in having a great career).
Imo, it has a lot to do with pride (aka as cockiness/arrogance...sometimes our team needs this to win...I love humble but I also loved bragging rights because of Roy and Chelios...Subban has what they had imo).
Some proof of this is how hard Subban works during summertime.
(Galchenyuk is like this as well...a gym-rat, a hard-worker).

Go Subban Go!

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Old
02-10-2013, 11:09 AM
  #119
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Pk is 5/10 or 6/10 since he came back, not good not bad

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Old
02-11-2013, 06:27 AM
  #120
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I didn't see the games since Subban came back.

Yet i have a question:
Sometimes, technically good players, when added to a team ... spread more havoc than add value to the total team value. Generating more conflicts of ego ... and ultimately diminishing the global value of the team. This can take place typically when you have a hardworking team of non-ego oriented players building chemistry and ... this magic that makes a team, a good team at work.

Stats : team without Subban 4 wins in 6 games (66% wins)
team with Subban 2 wins in 5 games (40% wins) and a slumping tendency !

Is something like this at work or does the team still have the same mindset and the wins and losses are just spuriously correlated with Subban's return ?

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Old
02-11-2013, 08:01 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by torero View Post
I didn't see the games since Subban came back.

Yet i have a question:
Sometimes, technically good players, when added to a team ... spread more havoc than add value to the total team value. Generating more conflicts of ego ... and ultimately diminishing the global value of the team. This can take place typically when you have a hardworking team of non-ego oriented players building chemistry and ... this magic that makes a team, a good team at work.

Stats : team without Subban 4 wins in 6 games (66% wins)
team with Subban 2 wins in 5 games (40% wins) and a slumping tendency !

Is something like this at work or does the team still have the same mindset and the wins and losses are just spuriously correlated with Subban's return ?
We lost a game in Boston where we played well and it was a goalie duel.
We lost a game in Buffalo we should've won but gave away.
We got smoked by the Leafs.

Subban played well in both the first games (scored in both of them as well) and I actually didn't think he was that bad in the 2nd. Our losing has nothing to do with him. If anything it's despite his play not because of it.

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02-11-2013, 08:22 AM
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le depisteur View Post
You're right, Myers and Subban are two distincts cases.Myers won the Calder while Subban not even close. The point is it is quite risky to give a big money multi year contract after the ELC to a young player, because all can change really quickly in the NHL. Myers is one example among many others. Of course, when you have player like Crosby, Malkin or Karlsson, it is a different story. But there is no risk to give a low money two-year contract to Subban. If he really steps up after that, there will be no problem to give him the money we will deserve.

In brief, the people who called Bergevin a moron in this case was the dumbest here... If you not agree, send your CV to Geoff Molson.
Actually it was close.

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Old
02-11-2013, 08:49 AM
  #123
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He seems to be sucking the life out of Markov.

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02-11-2013, 09:22 AM
  #124
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He seems to be sucking the life out of Markov.
Odd, I haven't noticed any bite marks on his neck.

[Edit: whoa, my 1000'd post...I need a life...]

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02-11-2013, 09:32 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by pepperMonkey View Post
[Edit: whoa, my 1000'd post...I need a life...]
Ah come on. August 2005 is your entry date. That's about 7 1/2 years of posting (roughly 2700 days), therefore 0.37 posts a day. Your life is ok, unless you have been lurking as much as I did during all these years.


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